It's Official. No Champion Point increase next Update. Thank you Rich for listening!
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 4:54AM1 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.
Here you go. Uncap the CP and let people level as much as they want. Add in an auction house. Add in more weapon skills. Bring back VP levels and get rid of level scaling. There i fixed the game. You're welcome
The turning it into the game that was averaging 500 concurrent players on Steam versus the 15,000 it's averaging now?
and PUBG gets about 500k people playing it on Steam, does that mean it's the best game on Steam? For my money the LESS popular a game is, the better. i hate anything mainstream, which is why i play on Xbox One instead of PS4....i go where the casual idiots do not.2 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »The problem with the "live and let live" approach is that you seem to be drawing a line in the sand that says "Increase my combat power or else." Is there no other way for the champion system to grant some sort of intangible benefits instead of raw stat increases? Do you have to feel more powerful than other players or can it only affect solo content?
Raw power increase forces ZOS to either make the endgame content harder, or nerf skills somewhere else. The difference between "Your way" and "My way" is that my way doesn't require anything of you. But your way demands that I have to endlessly grind a power progression system to stay relevant, to be competitive in both pvp and pve. With my way we could both play endgame content, it just requires you to actually enjoy playing the game for the games sake.
This divide is bigger than just this game. You see this in philosophy, politics etc. There are always two ways. One way is the way of the individual, the other way forces everyone to participate for ostensible group benefits.
I wish there was a way for you to feel special and continue to power up endlessly like Goku without it affecting my gaming time.
I do not PVP. This is not about feeling more powerful than other players, it's about feeling like I'm progressing through PVE. It's about feeling like I'm growing as a character, that I put in the time and am rewarded for it. I like that the base game is easier now than when I started. I like that as I've gained levels, gear, and cp points, normal dungeons are easier. I like knowing that if I keep working, I will eventually become powerful enough to run veteran trials. I like knowing that new dungeons will be a bit harder and that I will likely have to work to learn new mechanics and get the skill points needed to complete them.
I started RPGs with paper and pencil games. Story was important, but so was surviving and gaining levels. You became more powerful when you leveled and were able to fight bigger and harder monsters. That's what is fun for me in RPGs and MMOs.
What I perceive you asking for is that the sense of accomplishment I receive from the game currently is removed or neutered. The rewards you have suggested thus far, do not bring me joy. I do not feel that your way allows both of us to play the way we want.
Ultimately, that's okay. I don't HAVE to play this game. I want to, but I will live without it if it no longer brings me joy. Maybe it makes me hippy-dippy because I don't want to insult you to *win* a debate that ultimately has little import in the world.
Keep fighting for what you want in the game. I'll do the same. Maybe we can both get what we want, but I don't currently see how.6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.
Here you go. Uncap the CP and let people level as much as they want. Add in an auction house. Add in more weapon skills. Bring back VP levels and get rid of level scaling. There i fixed the game. You're welcome
The turning it into the game that was averaging 500 concurrent players on Steam versus the 15,000 it's averaging now?
and PUBG gets about 500k people playing it on Steam, does that mean it's the best game on Steam? For my money the LESS popular a game is, the better. i hate anything mainstream, which is why i play on Xbox One instead of PS4....i go where the casual idiots do not.
An unpopular game is a dead game. Developers need to make money to support a game. They don't work for free.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 4:56AM1 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).
ESO has the worst end game in any current mmorpg.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).
ESO has the worst end game in any current mmorpg.
Prove it. Objectively. I'll wait.
ESO currently has 7 raids, 34 dungeons, 2 group arenas, and a solo arena. It objectively has one of the biggest endgame scenes out there. The content is also highly challenging with a very low completion rate.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 5:00AM2 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.
Here you go. Uncap the CP and let people level as much as they want. Add in an auction house. Add in more weapon skills. Bring back VP levels and get rid of level scaling. There i fixed the game. You're welcome
The turning it into the game that was averaging 500 concurrent players on Steam versus the 15,000 it's averaging now?
and PUBG gets about 500k people playing it on Steam, does that mean it's the best game on Steam? For my money the LESS popular a game is, the better. i hate anything mainstream, which is why i play on Xbox One instead of PS4....i go where the casual idiots do not.
An unpopular game is a dead game. Developers need to make money to support a game. They don't work for free.
idk....i'd rather play an engrosing visual novel over the latest AAA mainstream casual fest shooter. Video Game devs lost my respect in 2013 when this current generation of consoles started and companies started to value money > quality. Back in my day (old man here) devs had to earn your money by creating masterpieces. i TRIED to play Breath of the Wild and i think its the worst game in the series, i TRIED to play Final Fantasy XV and its the worst game in the series, i TRIED to play Metal Gear Solid V and its the worst game in the series....maybe i am too old to "get" this new generation of idiots, i mean "gamers".2 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).
ESO has the worst end game in any current mmorpg.
Prove it. Objectively. I'll wait.
ESO currently has 7 raids, 34 dungeons, 2 group arenas, and a solo arena. It objectively has one of the biggest endgame scenes out there. The content is also highly challenging with a very low completion rate.
WoW has around 50 raids, over 100 dungeons and so many pvp arenas i do not want to list.
of course WoW is complete garbage now because Blizzard let themselves be bought by Activision and they lost sight on what made the game good.Edited by Neoicelord on January 16, 2019 5:02AM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.
Here you go. Uncap the CP and let people level as much as they want. Add in an auction house. Add in more weapon skills. Bring back VP levels and get rid of level scaling. There i fixed the game. You're welcome
The turning it into the game that was averaging 500 concurrent players on Steam versus the 15,000 it's averaging now?
and PUBG gets about 500k people playing it on Steam, does that mean it's the best game on Steam? For my money the LESS popular a game is, the better. i hate anything mainstream, which is why i play on Xbox One instead of PS4....i go where the casual idiots do not.
An unpopular game is a dead game. Developers need to make money to support a game. They don't work for free.
idk....i'd rather play an engrosing visual novel over the latest AAA mainstream casual fest shooter. Video Game devs lost my respect in 2013 when this current generation of consoles started and companies started to value money > quality. Back in my day (old man here) devs had to earn your money by creating masterpieces. i TRIED to play Breath of the Wild and i think its the worst game in the series, i TRIED to play Final Fantasy XV and its the worst game in the series, i TRIED to play Metal Gear Solid V and its the worst game in the series....maybe i am too old to "get" this new generation of idiots, i mean "gamers".
You're just jaded. That's fine, but you're not going to get developers to start making games that no one is going to play. And games today aren't objectively worse. They are just as good as they've always been (I've been gaming for 20+ years). Again, you're jaded and are choosing not to see that.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 5:04AM1 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can't wait for the time ZOS removes champion system. It has done a lot of damage to game's health and fun factor.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.3 -
desciviib14_ESO✭✭✭I don't know if anyone bothered to know or look up 'progression' but it doesn't mean forward technically; it means moving toward a goal or destination and if the destination or goal happens to be forward then in a round-about way it does in that context but horizontal progression is entirely accurate for moving toward a goal that is to the "side" of you or the current context.There is nothing here of interest to any nations; as a matter of fact, there is nothing here but people.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).
ESO has the worst end game in any current mmorpg.
Prove it. Objectively. I'll wait.
ESO currently has 7 raids, 34 dungeons, 2 group arenas, and a solo arena. It objectively has one of the biggest endgame scenes out there. The content is also highly challenging with a very low completion rate.
WoW has around 50 raids, over 100 dungeons and so many pvp arenas i do not want to list.
of course WoW is complete garbage now because Blizzard let themselves be bought by Activision and they lost sight on what made the game good.
WoW is one game. You said ESO has the worst endgame of any MMO.
WoW is also the most successful MMO of all time and has been in existence for 15 years versus ESO's 5.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 5:08AM1 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
Nothing ever gets harder? That doesn't sound fun to me at all.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭desciviib14_ESO wrote: »I don't know if anyone bothered to know or look up 'progression' but it doesn't mean forward technically; it means moving toward a goal or destination and if the destination or goal happens to be forward then in a round-about way it does in that context but horizontal progression is entirely accurate for moving toward a goal that is to the "side" of you or the current context.
Vertical profession =/= forward progression either.
Vertical progression is just psychological progression. It doesn't make your character more powerful (as some people seem to think) since new content is always designed to be completed at the level cap. The game never gets more difficult (which is what you need for forward progression).2 -
Neoicelord✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Neoicelord wrote: »joaaocaampos wrote: »I'm writing changes to the Champion System to submit soon. Unfortunately, I have no ideas to make it complete and ready. In that case, feedback will be essential.
Here you go. Uncap the CP and let people level as much as they want. Add in an auction house. Add in more weapon skills. Bring back VP levels and get rid of level scaling. There i fixed the game. You're welcome
The turning it into the game that was averaging 500 concurrent players on Steam versus the 15,000 it's averaging now?
and PUBG gets about 500k people playing it on Steam, does that mean it's the best game on Steam? For my money the LESS popular a game is, the better. i hate anything mainstream, which is why i play on Xbox One instead of PS4....i go where the casual idiots do not.
An unpopular game is a dead game. Developers need to make money to support a game. They don't work for free.
idk....i'd rather play an engrosing visual novel over the latest AAA mainstream casual fest shooter. Video Game devs lost my respect in 2013 when this current generation of consoles started and companies started to value money > quality. Back in my day (old man here) devs had to earn your money by creating masterpieces. i TRIED to play Breath of the Wild and i think its the worst game in the series, i TRIED to play Final Fantasy XV and its the worst game in the series, i TRIED to play Metal Gear Solid V and its the worst game in the series....maybe i am too old to "get" this new generation of idiots, i mean "gamers".
You're just jaded. That's fine, but you're not going to get developers to start making games that no one is going to play. And games today aren't objectively worse. They are just as good as they've always been (I've been gaming for 20+ years). Again, you're jaded and are choosing not to see that.
FF XV is a yaoi simulator with product placement every cutscene and a "story" that Michael Bay would blush at. Breath of the Wild is a Zelda game without a dungeon...nothing else to say about that one.
i still love video games...because there are still SOME devs out there that care.
Atlus- Persona 4 and 5 are fantastic
Mages- Chaos;Child and Steins;Gate are the best stories in gaming
Naughty Dog- The Last of Us
Bethesda-Fallout 76......LOL. Nevermind.0 -
desciviib14_ESO✭✭✭Also, every change is the beginning of the end if you read these forums often enough.
Both sides have some valid points but there is really no question that at this stage the CP system is no longer serving it's original intention. Considering how many points we can have not much has changed for quite a while in terms of trials completion times, DPS and HPS. I cant speak too much on PVP.
There is nothing here of interest to any nations; as a matter of fact, there is nothing here but people.0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Vertical progression is just psychological progression. It doesn't make your character more powerful (as some people seem to think) since new content is always designed to be completed at the level cap. The game never gets more difficult (which is what you need for forward progression).
Psychological or not, some people like feeling as if they are growing as a character.Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 5:15AM3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
Nothing ever gets harder? That doesn't sound fun to me at all.
Nothing gets harder with level progression either. You do realize that, don't you? It's just a psychological trick.
New content is always designed to be completed at the new level cap. vCR at CP 750 was not any more difficult than vMoL at CP 501.Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 5:16AM0 -
VanyelMohr✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Nothing gets harder with level progression either. You do realize that, don't you? It's just a psychological trick (that you seem to fall for).
New content is always designed to be completed at the new level cap.
The game is about wish fulfillment. Whether that's having a fancy costume, a posh mansion, or a powerful character, the whole game is designed to meet psychological needs/desires.
Edited by VanyelMohr on January 16, 2019 5:22AM3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭desciviib14_ESO wrote: »Also, every change is the beginning of the end if you read these forums often enough.
Both sides have some valid points but there is really no question that at this stage the CP system is no longer serving it's original intention. Considering how many points we can have not much has changed for quite a while in terms of trials completion times, DPS and HPS. I cant speak too much on PVP.
The game wouldn't even lose 1% of its population of all these players left. They are just a vocal minority.2 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What the hell is this crap?!
Wath point is there to play if they remove the last semplance of progresion this game had
Its an (mmo)rpg you are supose to get stronger as you play not just it cap to never progress again
They Need to at least replace that with something else
Horizontal progression is good never forced to get new gear and all at each DLC
But it doesn't make you stronger which is borring
For me its the worst thing they said in that eso live
Not happy at all8 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a lazy fix, not impressed.
What they should have done is make new difficulties accounting for cp, but i guess it's too much to ask to actually follow up to the systems you make.
And people are glad about this, Jesus Christ, talk about low standards.
It's not an actual fix and it's pretty far from it. They've just stopped system of adding new CPs that with each update was causing more and more issues. We'll see in future what actual "fix" they'll have for that system.0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why haven't they just made enemies scale with CP?
Make World Bosses and Dungeon bosses scale to 810, Delve bosses scale to 525, normal enemies scale to 300
Something along those lines.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.
If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE9 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.
If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.
They're not removing CP. They are just capping it at 810 (presumably until they can develop a new system).Edited by MLGProPlayer on January 16, 2019 6:11AM4 -
desciviib14_ESO✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This is a disaster. The arguments for and against the CP system are irrelevant. What matters is that the developers appear to be RENEGING on a key feature of the game for longtime players.
If ZOS rolls back the CP system, they will be cheating players out of hundreds of hours of their life. How can we ever trust ZOS again? My time is valuable to me. I'll never invest in a new system if they are just going to steal my progression.
They're not removing CP. They are just capping it at 810 (presumably until they can develop a new system).
This, they didn't say it is all for naught. Just that at this point they aren't planning to continue adding moreThere is nothing here of interest to any nations; as a matter of fact, there is nothing here but people.2 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).
So pls make a low CP video of vCR+3 (everyone can spend 160 CP / Player, not 1 CP more) lets see how fast you wipe without alle the dmg mitigation and the reduced inc. Healing, lower DMG and Tanks diying on HA.
That much to...mechanics based / doable at any lvl.
Ofc they create content according to max CP, but then they should atleast do it bugfree ^^
Edited by SaintSubwayy on January 16, 2019 6:19AMPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer6 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is one of the worst decisions they could have made.
The problem with the CP system wasn't so much the power creep, BUT was the fact that ZOS didn't reinstitute soft caps on all our stats to compensate for that power creep and force us to make decisions on where to spend those points.
What's the point for any one at cap, to bother buying the new chapter or to continue playing? There isn't any. Nothing but wasted XP that could have gone to something.
CP's with their power creep, would actually help people like me, who are disabled and have to use certain non-Xbox controllers because they are smaller in order to play on PC, to increase and be able to do harder content and continue to improve, despite not being able to animation cancel reliably or hold a perfect rotation.
So now, no improvement, despite hours and hours of playing and events, and what not. So then, what's the point?? If I can't improve either through raised stats so I can do more end game content, then there is no reason for me to bother buying the new content, or to pay for a sub, or really even to log on daily.
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_GinaBruno
This is a bad decision. Very bad decision. The only way you are going to FIX CP's is to bring back SOFT CAPS!!! Yep, there are going to be a lot of end game and pvp players that aren't going to like that. BUT it is the only way you are going to be able to lower that ceiling you kept talking about earlier without obliterating he middle ground (like you've been doing), while also raising the floor.
These changes are NOT hurting your end game elite players. These changes are not hurting your lowest floor players. They are hurting your mid-ranged players who find normal dungeons and trials too easy, but some Vet Trials and most Vet HM too hard to complete or even be considered to be allowed to participate in because they don't meet the magick number DPS.
If you don't want player pulling 50K DPS, then put a god damned SOFT CAP on it!!!!! There, problem solved.. It forces them to use their CP in another spot other than DPS.
STOP punishing everyone because a few people are complaining about the power creep!!!!
People want to complain that CP is making them too powerful in overland content... create an on/off toggle. Make CP a PVE thing only.... can't have it in Cyrodiil.
ZOS needs to stop looking at how END GAME elite players are doing in this game and making decisions around them. They need to pay more attention to what the middle ground players are doing, especially those who fall in the GAP of being left out of things when decisions like this are made.
We already have soft caps. Soft caps are diminishing returns. CP have (severe) diminishing returns. That hasn't solved anything.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintSubwayy wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »VanyelMohr wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Progression is completing endgame content.
Please explain how you complete end game content without character progression.
Endgame content is mechanics-based. You can complete it at any level. The content is designed for the current level cap, so it doesn't actually get harder.
PvP is skill-based. Again, levels are not neeeded (shooters, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. don't have levels).
So pls make a low CP video of vCR+3 (everyone can spend 160 CP / Player, not 1 CP more) lets see how fast you wipe without alle the dmg mitigation and the reduced inc. Healing, lower DMG and Tanks diying on HA.
They would have to completly rework every content in thw game if they take out CP
Just imagine whats all goin to get ned bugs noo thx
You didn't describe progression though. You described content gating.
vMoL at CP 501 was the same difficulty as vCR at CP 750. New content is not getting harder. It's simply being designed for completion at the new max level.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a lazy fix, not impressed.
What they should have done is make new difficulties accounting for cp, but i guess it's too much to ask to actually follow up to the systems you make.
And people are glad about this, Jesus Christ, talk about low standards.
Actually Rich said they are trying to figure out how rework CPs so yup, champion points will stills exist in one way or another but they are working on making them more appealing...
Edit: ...which will end in general nerf to everyone, and everyone will whine especially the ones that hate current state the most.Edited by Mayrael on January 16, 2019 6:21AMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.2