Should Stun Be Added back to Blazing spears?

JadonSky · January 2019

Would anyone else be against adding stun back to blazing spears. I feel like the Templar lacks a good CC skill and i never understood why stun was removed in the first place. Because of the delay in the drop it already had the complication of following your target just right in PVP to get the stun. Also in PVE it always helped with the trash mobs. Id even be ok if just one of the morphs got the stun back over the other.

Starlock · January 2019

I don't know.

My artificer (stamina templar) runs as a tank in group content, and it's true that he lacks a good crowd control skill. Time stop sort of works, but the time it takes for the effect to go off is too long. I had him pick up Luminous Shards after they made the change to Restoring Focus. He needed something to use his magicka pool for aside from Radiant Ward, and it turns out it's pretty fun to be that tank who restores other's resources while tanking a trial/dungeon boss. It's true that giving it a stun would increase the utility of the skill. I could use it for more than just getting preliminary aggression from mobs and throwing it on top of the healer and damage dealers during a boss fight. An AoE stun like that is really powerful, though, so while it's perfectly fine from a PvE perspective, I imagine the PvP folks are not a fan.

p00tx · January 2019

Yes, but just Blazing Spears

Starlock wrote: »

I don't know.

My artificer (stamina templar) runs as a tank in group content, and it's true that he lacks a good crowd control skill. Time stop sort of works, but the time it takes for the effect to go off is too long. I had him pick up Luminous Shards after they made the change to Restoring Focus. He needed something to use his magicka pool for aside from Radiant Ward, and it turns out it's pretty fun to be that tank who restores other's resources while tanking a trial/dungeon boss. It's true that giving it a stun would increase the utility of the skill. I could use it for more than just getting preliminary aggression from mobs and throwing it on top of the healer and damage dealers during a boss fight. An AoE stun like that is really powerful, though, so while it's perfectly fine from a PvE perspective, I imagine the PvP folks are not a fan.

PvPer here, and I am a huge fan of this. An AoE stun is exactly what this class is lacking right now. DKs have Talons and Leap, Sorcs have Mines, NBs have Soul Tether, Wardens have that Ice Shards thing and Portals. My only concern is that Templars are sitting in a really nice, balanced place right now, and if we got even one more thing that gave us an edge, we might be thrown back into the "Nerf dis thing now plz-tnx!!" pile, and we know how Zos typically handles those.

If this did get implemented, it might need the Timestop treatment, with a gradual snare to stun progression, so people had at least a fighting chance to roll away from it once they saw it.

Edziu · January 2019

Yes, add stun back to both blazing spears and Luminous Shards

tbh why even this was removed?
as for pvp this was only viable cc like fear etc and this needed good aiming to land this (I think that was most skill need cc to just land on enemy player) and this got removed while leaving tampler with no good cc for combo at all
yes templar have javelin but please...easy to dodge, block and it itself deal barely damage whiel also it isnt cheap

as for pve...here is what others wrote
templar at all especailly in pve have no any cc
for wha will you bring javelin or even this gaploser or harder pve content? not only you have no slots for this but skills like these ale just useless to slot only for single cc

Draxys · January 2019

Idk about this. The comparisons given above are either roots or ultimates. I don’t play Templar, do they have another CC? If not, I think it could be good to give them a CC. But an aoe stun on a skill you can spam doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

Edziu · January 2019

Yes, add stun back to both blazing spears and Luminous Shards

Draxys wrote: »

Idk about this. The comparisons given above are either roots or ultimates. I don’t play Templar, do they have another CC? If not, I think it could be good to give them a CC. But an aoe stun on a skill you can spam doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

as I know (played latelt only stamplar) templar as dont have any good cc templar at all have no any roots while having 2 week single target cc's usable only on pvp - thats all from templar cc's as I know

ccmedaddy · January 2019

No, should stay the way it is

I don't like having CCs built into any of the PvE DPS skills. It just makes it harder for the tank to chain adds in.

As for PvP, I do agree that magplars could use a better CC than what they currently have, but I don't think shards is the right ability to solve that problem with.

Edziu · January 2019

Yes, add stun back to both blazing spears and Luminous Shards

ccmedaddy wrote: »

I don't like having CCs built into any of the PvE DPS skills. It just makes it harder for the tank to chain adds in.

As for PvP, I do agree that magplars could use a better CC than what they currently have, but I don't think shards is the right ability to solve that problem with.

well shards in pve..shouldnt be bigger problem for you as for tank...as this isn't skill used for single mobs but on groups of trash and boss at all

any thinking templar wont throw their shards for single npc away from you while at you is just group of mobs just waiting to get hit by many aue skills

the only cc's laning on mobs away from you which you cant pull are in 99% from magsorc stupid pets whose owners dont know how to control them which is also case of bad design fro them thanks to ZOS

Silver_Strider · January 2019

Time Stop is a thing with a much bigger radius of effect so I can't really see an argument against adding the stun back.

Draxys · January 2019

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Time Stop is a thing with a much bigger radius of effect so I can't really see an argument against adding the stun back.

This would only make sense if time stop was balanced, and it is absolutely not balanced in pvp.

StarOfElyon · January 2019

Time stop is not that easy to land. You have to time it well and it does leave you open to be punished because there's a large window of opportunity while it's being cast. I stopped using it because of that. That and the fact that since Templars have trouble doing burst damage it's kind of pointless.

ZeroXFF · January 2019

Other

Make it an AoE root.

Vapirko · January 2019

Other

I would say yes, if we weren't currently in the midst of an AOE Snare/CC/Damage/Heal cluster ***. And one thing Magplar Healbots do not need right now is an AOE CC in top of Time Stop to add to their permafrost spin to win groups. If you had asked prior to the mobility nerf I would have said yes, or if mobility is buffed to where it should be again, then also yes.

p00tx · January 2019

Yes, but just Blazing Spears

Vapirko wrote: »

I would say yes, if we weren't currently in the midst of an AOE Snare/CC/Damage/Heal cluster ***. And one thing Magplar Healbots do not need right now is an AOE CC in top of Time Stop to add to their permafrost spin to win groups. If you had asked prior to the mobility nerf I would have said yes, or if mobility is buffed to where it should be again, then also yes.

Ugh...I didn't even think about that. Every time I run into one of those icy gay-nadoes of suck, I think about taking a hiatus on the game.

On the other hand, I think a lot of Templars (Templar main here) use ice staff roots and Timestop for lack of a better option, since our only options for a CC or stun are single target (we have Talons envy, big time). Give them a graduated stun on one morph of shards, and the other two will go back into the closet (no one REALLY likes Timestop or using the low dmg ice staff).

IzzyStardust · January 2019

Yes, but just Blazing Spears

JadonSky wrote: »

Would anyone else be against adding stun back to blazing spears. I feel like the Templar lacks a good CC skill and i never understood why stun was removed in the first place. Because of the delay in the drop it already had the complication of following your target just right in PVP to get the stun. Also in PVE it always helped with the trash mobs. Id even be ok if just one of the morphs got the stun back over the other.

I think it should only be added back to the damage morph. The luminous morph is used in pve to help the tank and to proc olorime; giving bosses/adds a CC immunity would be stupid and annoying. I think though that Templars need more CC. So the damage morph would be perfect for this.

WrathOfInnos · January 2019

Yes, but just Luminous Shards

IzzyStardust wrote: »

JadonSky wrote: »

Would anyone else be against adding stun back to blazing spears. I feel like the Templar lacks a good CC skill and i never understood why stun was removed in the first place. Because of the delay in the drop it already had the complication of following your target just right in PVP to get the stun. Also in PVE it always helped with the trash mobs. Id even be ok if just one of the morphs got the stun back over the other.

I think it should only be added back to the damage morph. The luminous morph is used in pve to help the tank and to proc olorime; giving bosses/adds a CC immunity would be stupid and annoying. I think though that Templars need more CC. So the damage morph would be perfect for this.

I actually see it as the opposite. The luminous morph is typically cast on the tank for resources, so anything hit has already been chained in. No harm in keeping them in place at that point. Blazing spear is more likely to be used as a DPS opener, and I wouldn’t want everything hit to become CC immune before the tank had an opportunity to group them.

Luminous is mostly used by healers, and if enemies near the tank get stunned then it’s effectively helping keep the tank alive (fewer hits taken). It would be similar to how some healers use a weakening enchant, with the intent to reduce incoming damage instead of just healing through it all.

Additionally, for solo content (where the synergy is meaningless), this would give the option of a utility morph with a stun, or a higher damage morph (blazing).

Skander · January 2019

Yes, but just Blazing Spears

It was something unnecessary.

Savos_Saren · January 2019

Other

As much as i like the stun on blazing spear- it would add to their repertoire of stuns that they already have: both morphs of javelin, both morphs of focused charge, both morphs of nova

(I actually prefer the stun on blazing spear because I’m currently running a harmony build

)

Kadoin · January 2019

If shards got stunback, no NB will ever kill me again...

kojou · January 2019

No, should stay the way it is

I use javelin on my Templar and it works fine.

Losing the mini stun from puncturing sweep was a bigger deal IMO.

Edziu · January 2019

Yes, add stun back to both blazing spears and Luminous Shards

kojou wrote: »

I use javelin on my Templar and it works fine.

Losing the mini stun from puncturing sweep was a bigger deal IMO.

yeah losing stun in punctiring sweeps was bigger thing because it was in spammable....so you was stuning anyone every time cooldown on break free went off yeah, very balanced to have stun in spammable skill without need any synergies to activate this like in suprise attack with which you need to be in stealth to get this stun

and to javelin with stun...please tell me who with even mind will use this on tank or healer in pve to stun mobs while we are overruned by them (trash) while for single mobs...at all tank mostly have chain to just interrupt them from range or just to pull them from away

and at all what good dd will slot good dps/utility skill over trash for pve javelin for just single mob stun?
as I sayed for single mobs it would be annyoing for tank because mostly you will use it for range mobs then as it is single target skill and noone will specially target single mob in big group of them to just stun with single one whiel wasting time for proper dps to target this one

please say atleast you mean your post about pvp becaus ein pvp it can have sense but at all in compare to other classes it is one of worst cc's in this game and this isn't even hard cc because is blockable, dodgable etc while for pve...I have just said it

idk · January 2019

It has been a good part of 2 years but I think part of the issue is Zos has problems getting the stun to work well anyhow.

Regardless, Zos felt that Templars having a CC opportunity with javelin was sufficient, at least that was their reasoning.

Of note, Zos increased the distance javelin knocked players/npcs back to make it more unique compared to other CC abilities. Zos specifically mentioned how this would be beneficial "treacherous terrain". Yes they recently removed the knockback completely.

I mention this because Zos does not seem to have a consistent line of thought in how they manage this game and this is a very clear example. It is disappointing because I know of a number of players, solid raiders, that have left the game because Zos cannot figure out how they want to mange ESO combat.

While @ZOS_RobGarrett said in the U21 combat update they were "investing a portion of its time into codifying our vision and long-term strategy for combat" Zos will have to communicate that will us effectively and live up to this vision if they want us to think it is anything other than the lip service we have gotten when they have used that word before. It is Zos' fault be do not believe them when they say the word vision.

fullheartcontainer · January 2019

No, should stay the way it is

I say no, because I think this game has a MASSIVE issue with roots, snares, stuns, knockbacks, slows, etc being on every. single. skill. Even immovable potions don't offer sufficient counter to the sheer amount of CC in the game.

In general, I think CC in this game needs an overhaul by the devs. Shrink the number of different types of CC, and make it so you can counter them better with potions or abilities.

imredneckson · January 2019

Yes, but just Blazing Spears

It should have never been taken away in the first place.

TheNightflame · January 2019

Just a reminder that the justification for the stun being removed was not for balance but: (I don't remember the exact quote but something like) to make templar gameplay simpler for templars, so they have less to think about when using their skills.

datgladiatah · January 2019

Other

I definitely think there's a need for more Templar CC in AOE's like talons/dark magic aoe/fear, especially since their only AOE is gated behind a synergy and no other class requires that teamwork. Not via spears tho imo because it can be aimed and it's fast.

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Should Stun Be Added back to Blazing spears?

Should Stun Be Added back to Blazing spears? 72 votes