Cloak has no downsides really. Suprasses dots but not hots. Has no regen or healing penalties, no stacking cost either.

I would say I saw many games where invisibility was overperforming but never in the way of ESO with its so called "rogues".

Whats even funny is that stamblade is not a bad class. It doesn't need cloak to function. You can build as a brawler and be better than other brawlers cause nb has crazy tools like incap and fear and suprise attack and the lack of a goot dot is compensated by rending while troll king makes up for lack of healing.

Then why is it that magblade gets the nerf instead? PvE. Thats probably why.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Cloak has no downsides really. Suprasses dots but not hots. Has no regen or healing penalties, no stacking cost either.

I would say I saw many games where invisibility was overperforming but never in the way of ESO with its so called "rogues".

Whats even funny is that stamblade is not a bad class. It doesn't need cloak to function. You can build as a brawler and be better than other brawlers cause nb has crazy tools like incap and fear and suprise attack and the lack of a goot dot is compensated by rending while troll king makes up for lack of healing.

Then why is it that magblade gets the nerf instead? PvE. Thats probably why.

And screw over the people who don't play Nb as a brawler, thx a lot. You already got Shuffle nerfed if you look into the class rep thread, why I'm not surprised that it isn't enough for the forums? It's fine for sorcs and other classes to have spammable shields and burst heals, while sNb is only balanced when it straight up dies. Love the forums. Probably the same kind of people who onetrick Brig while complaining about Tracer.

idk wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

This comment probably could have been made in one of the existing threads discussing cloak rather than making a whole new thread.

I agree with this. OP has not provided anything uniquely insightful.

Besides, cloak has good counters. I find them very effective.

good for you, I dont.

Like the OP said and is apparently "well known", the second you use magelight they wait a second for the cast time, roll, wait a second for you to fire off more attacks, cloak to avoid them all.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Cloak has no downsides really. Suprasses dots but not hots. Has no regen or healing penalties, no stacking cost either.

I would say I saw many games where invisibility was overperforming but never in the way of ESO with its so called "rogues".

Whats even funny is that stamblade is not a bad class. It doesn't need cloak to function. You can build as a brawler and be better than other brawlers cause nb has crazy tools like incap and fear and suprise attack and the lack of a goot dot is compensated by rending while troll king makes up for lack of healing.

Then why is it that magblade gets the nerf instead? PvE. Thats probably why.

And screw over the people who don't play Nb as a brawler, thx a lot. You already got Shuffle nerfed if you look into the class rep thread, why I'm not surprised that it isn't enough for the forums? It's fine for sorcs and other classes to have spammable shields and burst heals, while sNb is only balanced when it straight up dies. Love the forums. Probably the same kind of people who onetrick Brig while complaining about Tracer.

Sure friend, lets just make sure nightblade is overpowered so that medium armor and bow users have a place in the meta, so that our ''rogue'' roleplayers can feel like they are edgy assassins so that they can tell people ''git gud'' all day long. Screw the rest of the classes, I'm sure they won't mind being pigeonholed into heavy armor, and still get 100-0'd in two seconds against a stamblade.

And when they ask for more diversity, more stamina morphs, when they ask to be a bit like stamblade lets just tell them to stfu as forums always do, because ''muh magicka class identity'' and ''muh weapon skills''.

If you wanna play as a ''rogue'', thats completely fine, but If your rogue is eating up ''brawlers'' for breakfast and laughing at ''mages'' trying to hit them, while being completely immune to dots or single target attacks, thats developer bias, or the fact that they have no idea to how to balance an rpg.

Proven to me by their action of actually nerfing the damage of noxious breath out of all abilities in murkmire patch
Or maybe they actually know stuff but are extremely biased. I can't be sure at this point.

When you have ridicilously overpriced abilities and reveal potions whose only purpose is to counter one specific ability, you know something is wrong. And yes people also need to change their builds to counter wings or block or dodge roll, but difference is that, counterplay tools against those things do their jobs effectively, when you fossilize/fear a permablocker, put some bleeds on him, he is screwed, when you have unreflectable abilities, that magDk will not be able to reflect anything, when you slot an undodgeable ability you will destroy a dodge roller before he can react. Not the case with cloak though. The only truly working method is spamming aoes to reveal them because the aoe itself also doesn't do damage most of the times.

When we come to the shuffle though , It is a massive buff for stamblades , not a nerf. Unless you stacked it with blade cloak before, but even then you now have one free bar slot, as blade cloak is garbage as an ability, when you don't need the buffs it provides, and as a bow/2h ''rogueblade'', you don't need expedition, and now you also don't need evasion, Its provided by shuffle..

The only thing in this game that actually hurts stamblades are in a reliable way are aoes(and even aoes are not always reliable because cloak and its shenanigans), and shuffle now gives you reduction against them. A 2h/bow stamblade can now mitigate a leap or dawnbreaker by %25. How is this a nerf again?

As for overwatch, its a shooter game, made for people who can't play shooters.(seriously though) So why are you suprised people constantly complain about stuff? If they had actual skill they wouldn't be playing overwatch.

I guess the thing I'm trying to tell is that cloak needs reasonable counterplay, and medium armor shouldn't be something designed specificly for them. Its just wrong. Reveal potions are NOT reliable nor reasonable. Evil hunter needs a buff and cost reduction. Is it gonna happen though? Not a chance.

Cloak prevents all single target attacks, force misses all non on target precast single target attacks, (aka everything but curse/potl) surpresses all dots for the duration AND makes you invisible.

All the counters are heavy in the NBs favor. As they require more of an investment for the user. Dropping their attacks in favor of a reveal attempt. Losing a ability, enchant or pot slot for a low time reveal. After all that having to find the person and target them with it. All whilst the NB gets away near scott free to regen and heal, with a benefit when switching to offense.

It does far more than wings or shimmering or ward yet it is untouched for far far too long. If they make dots go through it then it'll force the bad blades to actually have to avoid attacks (the point of being sneaky) rather than one button wonder it. To balance it it needs to be better for actual stealthing and NB needs a few non cloak buffs. I.e. siphoning actually be good at healing. You know, the point of the siphoning tree.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Cloak has no downsides really. Suprasses dots but not hots. Has no regen or healing penalties, no stacking cost either.

I would say I saw many games where invisibility was overperforming but never in the way of ESO with its so called "rogues".

Whats even funny is that stamblade is not a bad class. It doesn't need cloak to function. You can build as a brawler and be better than other brawlers cause nb has crazy tools like incap and fear and suprise attack and the lack of a goot dot is compensated by rending while troll king makes up for lack of healing.

Then why is it that magblade gets the nerf instead? PvE. Thats probably why.

And screw over the people who don't play Nb as a brawler, thx a lot. You already got Shuffle nerfed if you look into the class rep thread, why I'm not surprised that it isn't enough for the forums? It's fine for sorcs and other classes to have spammable shields and burst heals, while sNb is only balanced when it straight up dies. Love the forums. Probably the same kind of people who onetrick Brig while complaining about Tracer.

Sure friend, lets just make sure nightblade is overpowered so that medium armor and bow users have a place in the meta, so that our ''rogue'' roleplayers can feel like they are edgy assassins so that they can tell people ''git gud'' all day long. Screw the rest of the classes, I'm sure they won't mind being pigeonholed into heavy armor, and still get 100-0'd in two seconds against a stamblade.

And when they ask for more diversity, more stamina morphs, when they ask to be a bit like stamblade lets just tell them to stfu as forums always do, because ''muh magicka class identity'' and ''muh weapon skills''.

If you wanna play as a ''rogue'', thats completely fine, but If your rogue is eating up ''brawlers'' for breakfast and laughing at ''mages'' trying to hit them, while being completely immune to dots or single target attacks, thats developer bias, or the fact that they have no idea to how to balance an rpg.

Proven to me by their action of actually nerfing the damage of noxious breath out of all abilities in murkmire patch
Or maybe they actually know stuff but are extremely biased. I can't be sure at this point.

When you have ridicilously overpriced abilities and reveal potions whose only purpose is to counter one specific ability, you know something is wrong. And yes people also need to change their builds to counter wings or block or dodge roll, but difference is that, counterplay tools against those things do their jobs effectively, when you fossilize/fear a permablocker, put some bleeds on him, he is screwed, when you have unreflectable abilities, that magDk will not be able to reflect anything, when you slot an undodgeable ability you will destroy a dodge roller before he can react. Not the case with cloak though. The only truly working method is spamming aoes to reveal them because the aoe itself also doesn't do damage most of the times.

When we come to the shuffle though , It is a massive buff for stamblades , not a nerf. Unless you stacked it with blade cloak before, but even then you now have one free bar slot, as blade cloak is garbage as an ability, when you don't need the buffs it provides, and as a bow/2h ''rogueblade'', you don't need expedition, and now you also don't need evasion, Its provided by shuffle..

The only thing in this game that actually hurts stamblades are in a reliable way are aoes(and even aoes are not always reliable because cloak and its shenanigans), and shuffle now gives you reduction against them. A 2h/bow stamblade can now mitigate a leap or dawnbreaker by %25. How is this a nerf again?

As for overwatch, its a shooter game, made for people who can't play shooters.(seriously though) So why are you suprised people constantly complain about stuff? If they had actual skill they wouldn't be playing overwatch.

I guess the thing I'm trying to tell is that cloak needs reasonable counterplay, and medium armor shouldn't be something designed specificly for them. Its just wrong. Reveal potions are NOT reliable nor reasonable. Evil hunter needs a buff and cost reduction. Is it gonna happen though? Not a chance.

Yes, it's better to have medium armor and bow builds viable than having only one brawler spec on one class (Argonian) viable. There are a lot counters to Cloak, much more than there used to be against heavy armor brawlers who reigned the game for 2 years and also more counters than shieldstacking has. Yet stamnb is the only class that isn't allowed to kill anything nor should it survive anything. Go create a stamnb, can only recommend to go to Alikr and fight all the petsorcs and bleed builds, it's a lot of fun even with "overpowered" Cloak.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Cloak has no downsides really. Suprasses dots but not hots. Has no regen or healing penalties, no stacking cost either.

I would say I saw many games where invisibility was overperforming but never in the way of ESO with its so called "rogues".

Whats even funny is that stamblade is not a bad class. It doesn't need cloak to function. You can build as a brawler and be better than other brawlers cause nb has crazy tools like incap and fear and suprise attack and the lack of a goot dot is compensated by rending while troll king makes up for lack of healing.

Then why is it that magblade gets the nerf instead? PvE. Thats probably why.

And screw over the people who don't play Nb as a brawler, thx a lot. You already got Shuffle nerfed if you look into the class rep thread, why I'm not surprised that it isn't enough for the forums? It's fine for sorcs and other classes to have spammable shields and burst heals, while sNb is only balanced when it straight up dies. Love the forums. Probably the same kind of people who onetrick Brig while complaining about Tracer.

Sure friend, lets just make sure nightblade is overpowered so that medium armor and bow users have a place in the meta, so that our ''rogue'' roleplayers can feel like they are edgy assassins so that they can tell people ''git gud'' all day long. Screw the rest of the classes, I'm sure they won't mind being pigeonholed into heavy armor, and still get 100-0'd in two seconds against a stamblade.

And when they ask for more diversity, more stamina morphs, when they ask to be a bit like stamblade lets just tell them to stfu as forums always do, because ''muh magicka class identity'' and ''muh weapon skills''.

If you wanna play as a ''rogue'', thats completely fine, but If your rogue is eating up ''brawlers'' for breakfast and laughing at ''mages'' trying to hit them, while being completely immune to dots or single target attacks, thats developer bias, or the fact that they have no idea to how to balance an rpg.

Proven to me by their action of actually nerfing the damage of noxious breath out of all abilities in murkmire patch
Or maybe they actually know stuff but are extremely biased. I can't be sure at this point.

When you have ridicilously overpriced abilities and reveal potions whose only purpose is to counter one specific ability, you know something is wrong. And yes people also need to change their builds to counter wings or block or dodge roll, but difference is that, counterplay tools against those things do their jobs effectively, when you fossilize/fear a permablocker, put some bleeds on him, he is screwed, when you have unreflectable abilities, that magDk will not be able to reflect anything, when you slot an undodgeable ability you will destroy a dodge roller before he can react. Not the case with cloak though. The only truly working method is spamming aoes to reveal them because the aoe itself also doesn't do damage most of the times.

When we come to the shuffle though , It is a massive buff for stamblades , not a nerf. Unless you stacked it with blade cloak before, but even then you now have one free bar slot, as blade cloak is garbage as an ability, when you don't need the buffs it provides, and as a bow/2h ''rogueblade'', you don't need expedition, and now you also don't need evasion, Its provided by shuffle..

The only thing in this game that actually hurts stamblades are in a reliable way are aoes(and even aoes are not always reliable because cloak and its shenanigans), and shuffle now gives you reduction against them. A 2h/bow stamblade can now mitigate a leap or dawnbreaker by %25. How is this a nerf again?

As for overwatch, its a shooter game, made for people who can't play shooters.(seriously though) So why are you suprised people constantly complain about stuff? If they had actual skill they wouldn't be playing overwatch.

I guess the thing I'm trying to tell is that cloak needs reasonable counterplay, and medium armor shouldn't be something designed specificly for them. Its just wrong. Reveal potions are NOT reliable nor reasonable. Evil hunter needs a buff and cost reduction. Is it gonna happen though? Not a chance.

Yes, it's better to have medium armor and bow builds viable than having only one brawler spec on one class (Argonian) viable. There are a lot counters to Cloak, much more than there used to be against heavy armor brawlers who reigned the game for 2 years and also more counters than shieldstacking has. Yet stamnb is the only class that isn't allowed to kill anything nor should it survive anything. Go create a stamnb, can only recommend to go to Alikr and fight all the petsorcs and bleed builds, it's a lot of fun even with "overpowered" Cloak.

See there is your real problem, don't hate me for telling you this , but your understading of PvP is formed mostly based on dueling people on Alikr or wherever is the dueling hub. You judge changes based on how it works in a duel. But duels have tons of made up rules and limitations that do not apply to open world or battlegrounds.

Those alikr petsorcs don't function in open world the same way they do in alikr. As for bleed builds, what stops stamblade from becoming one? In fact stamblade makes argueably the best bleed spec.(maybe its stamsorc overall, I think its a good stamblade counter because of hurricane being the best aoe against cloak, but pretty sure for 1v1s stamblade is overall strongest)

Look, I'm not saying dueling is irrelevant. But you never see the world outside of that tiny meme box that is called eso dueling. And no I'm not implying we open world players are oh so high and mighty we don't do duels, Its just that, dueling ALWAYS, and ALWAYS comes down to who is a better ''brawler'' and who got the better cheese, because running away is considered losing, los is usually banned and people wear all sorts of cheese that is specialized to be absolutely cancer 1v1.

Vapirko wrote: »

Why doesn’t ZOS just remove the stun from stealth attacks? I’ve been playing as a stambalde a bit and also trying to get in fights with as many as possible to try and figure out what the real issue is. Is it really cloak? Well cloak is really strong but it’s also counterable fairly easily if you play smart. It punishes new or bad players pretty hard. But the real thing I want to know is, why the free CC from stealth? They already have incap strike and fear, two really strong CC why do they need another free one from stealth? Removing this would do two things 1) NBs wouldn’t be able to reset the fight then open up with a free CC from which they can go itnto incap and so on. They could still heal up if you don’t break cloak, but they would no longer get a free CC which would make cloak just enough less valuable to start balancing it. Sure they can still use incap but most like to get off a bow hit or get the fracture in first and then you’re already stunned 2) it would stop the horrible lag outs that result from this stun and this would go for bow ganks as well and I’m fairly certain that the desyncs are related to how buggy that CC is.

Cloak is strong sure, but it can be countered and it’s hard to use against people who know what you’re doing. Maybe it needs a spam increase, but more than that I think the CC from stealth is OP, unnecessary given two other good class CC and it is incredibly buggy. A few very good reasons to just remove it from a class that certainly does not need it.

Free CC is a part of sneak, not a nightblade exclusive thing. Everyone can sneak. By taking down the stealth stun you're nerfing EVERYONE, not nightblades. They've been nerfing EVERYONE to solve stamblade crisis for years now, and it isn't really working. If Its a nightblade only issue, then nerf the nightblades, not the game mechanics. I'm tired of this ''lets not touch nightblades'' mentality going on.

And on the topic of sneak CC, I would prefer eating that to getting feared and lose control to my character for about 2-3 seconds. Yes its very annoying to get sniped and stunned, but again, If that sniper is not a stamblade spamming cloak after each snipe, you're gonna be able to spot him pretty easily. Once again, the issue comes down to nightblade class.

If you want proof to my claim on how ZOS keeps nerfing game mechanics due to dev bias, the latest attempt from them was nerfing crit heals because nightblades were outhealing stamDks and magplars .d