Why so much hate towards a new class?

Brrrofski · January 2019

What I posted in another thread....

I pretty much only PvP these days and I'm not hyped for necromancer. Pets in PvP just don't really work (people make pet builds work, not saying they don't - but if everyone ran them it'd be a mess). They're unreliable in such a fast paced environment, get in the way when you want to target a player and surely will put a strain on the already suffering servers.

I'll make one (if it's a class) and have a play around, sure, but kind of sceptical how they'll work in PvP. I don't roleplay any of my characters or anything like that in this game so it doesn't speak to me for that either. Single player RPGs I do, but not in MMOs.

ATomiX96 · January 2019

Not exited because its more variables to Balance around, Theres gonna be plenty of new Bugs and Buggy Interactions with the new class, fixing performance and other crucial points would increase enjoyability more than a 40$ "expansion" with a new class 1 Zone and once again another *** mini Trial.

mairwen85 · January 2019

Because all classes should be designed and play tested pvp first to ensure balance at implementation.

Pve doesn't care about over performance, in fact the driving progression goal of pve content is to out perform the environment limitations and mechanics.

Pvp, the driving goal is to out skill by mastering a class and combat, and tactical play.

Skills are really just window dressing for the delivery of character effects, be that damage, buff/debuff, etc. Balance is achieved when effects have counters, reduction, mitigation, and enhancers from various sources. This simply doesn't exist in the rigid class system we have currently where classes exist with skills as conceit primarily. This has proven to be bad design as seen with psjic skill line and warden class.

Psjic should have introduced alteration, illusion as specialisations ... It was underwhelming and instead gave us a reimagining of weapon skills and passived, voiding effort to farm. Warden is a broken amalgam of druid and cryomancer, like they wanted to push the hybrid concept into a world where it isn't viable.

All the while gimping the primary classes from inception because they were not designed and play tested pvp to start with... And balance is an after thought being dealt with on a nerf by nerf basis.

That's my 2p anyway.

Bouldercleave · January 2019

No hate here.

Necromancer is about the bottom on my list of classes that I WANT, but you can't have everything...

ezio45 · January 2019

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Reasons I dont want a necro class rn <- the rn is the important part of than

- Balance is a mess, Perfectly balancing this game is never going to happen. However the classes and mag and stam need to be closer. Both in pve and pvp. I dont want development time to be taken away from that by having a new class spread the devs even thinner

- This poses unknown problems for balance. That will this class be able to capitalize on. We dont now but there is the potential that it will take certain elements of combat at make op. There is a popular build of stamden rn that is doing that in pvp. Also if it does that and something is op, zos blanket nerfs. They are more likely to nerf the whole whole of whatever caused the problem rather than just the new class.

- Warden at its announcement wasnt received well. Even at morrowind launch and partly to this day it is not a good class. Stamden is good, magden is tired with magsorc for worst class in game. Healer wardens, also not great. Noone really wants them or wants to make room from them in groups. Warden tanks are ok but it took alot of time to get them there. Warden was slapped together with lose ideas and a combination of elements from other classes and was pushed as a cash grab and players ere disappointed. Necro, especially mag necro, already has elements of it we are unsure of. One this we do now about necro is it involves raising the dead. Thats problematic for gameplay, especially in pvp or trials. If they do it by raising slain enemies how will that work in pvp? In trials there arnt alot of adds to slay and raise. If they do it by just summoning undead well they really are no different than pet sorc with different pet skins. Alot of sorcs and wardens want that in game and if thats the way zos does this its never gunna happen. Most players also arnt keen on pets. Wardens dont really like them, mag sorc is split about 50 50 on they either like or hate them.

- Also zos nerfed ALOT to make warden appealing. Warden had good sustain, zos hardcore nerfed sustain across the board for all the other classes. That ill give you is a tinfiol hat theory but the others are pretty solid. Non templar healers were not a thing before warden and alot of players were ok with that. non templar healers were for fun and pvp if you were looking for niche builds. we were ok with that for the most part. That all changed with warden. Zos hardcore nerf templar healers to push the warden as a healer. They also nerfed templars in general to the point they were noncompetitive as anything but healers for over a yr. Warhorn, just recently they took minor toughness away from warhorn and only left wardens with it as a way to again, try to force warden healers on us. What is zos going to nerf to make necro appealing? did they already do it and thats why sorc is so terrible this patch?

(note: before i begin this comment, i'll state that my annoyance is not directed at you)

You know how to make warden appealing? give the class some more skills that are fun. at the moment, we have 4 very basic raw skills. it's quite boring because don't really have quantity or quality of skills. sure fetcher is decent damage but they just do damage. We also have a whole boatload of people who want to play an ice mage. We also have several morphs that are underused quite severely most of these are IN THE WINTER'S EMBRACE LINE! Ice is the key to Magden DPS. adding Ice DPS skills is the direction ZOS should take with it. because like it or not? "Ice is intended to be a tanking element" is *** and it doesn't work, lore-wise or gameplay-wise.

these skills should be interesting, useful and should deal reliable and good frost damage as a bottom line.

true, zos needs to do that.

ESO_Nightingale · January 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Reasons I dont want a necro class rn <- the rn is the important part of than

- Balance is a mess, Perfectly balancing this game is never going to happen. However the classes and mag and stam need to be closer. Both in pve and pvp. I dont want development time to be taken away from that by having a new class spread the devs even thinner

- This poses unknown problems for balance. That will this class be able to capitalize on. We dont now but there is the potential that it will take certain elements of combat at make op. There is a popular build of stamden rn that is doing that in pvp. Also if it does that and something is op, zos blanket nerfs. They are more likely to nerf the whole whole of whatever caused the problem rather than just the new class.

- Warden at its announcement wasnt received well. Even at morrowind launch and partly to this day it is not a good class. Stamden is good, magden is tired with magsorc for worst class in game. Healer wardens, also not great. Noone really wants them or wants to make room from them in groups. Warden tanks are ok but it took alot of time to get them there. Warden was slapped together with lose ideas and a combination of elements from other classes and was pushed as a cash grab and players ere disappointed. Necro, especially mag necro, already has elements of it we are unsure of. One this we do now about necro is it involves raising the dead. Thats problematic for gameplay, especially in pvp or trials. If they do it by raising slain enemies how will that work in pvp? In trials there arnt alot of adds to slay and raise. If they do it by just summoning undead well they really are no different than pet sorc with different pet skins. Alot of sorcs and wardens want that in game and if thats the way zos does this its never gunna happen. Most players also arnt keen on pets. Wardens dont really like them, mag sorc is split about 50 50 on they either like or hate them.

- Also zos nerfed ALOT to make warden appealing. Warden had good sustain, zos hardcore nerfed sustain across the board for all the other classes. That ill give you is a tinfiol hat theory but the others are pretty solid. Non templar healers were not a thing before warden and alot of players were ok with that. non templar healers were for fun and pvp if you were looking for niche builds. we were ok with that for the most part. That all changed with warden. Zos hardcore nerf templar healers to push the warden as a healer. They also nerfed templars in general to the point they were noncompetitive as anything but healers for over a yr. Warhorn, just recently they took minor toughness away from warhorn and only left wardens with it as a way to again, try to force warden healers on us. What is zos going to nerf to make necro appealing? did they already do it and thats why sorc is so terrible this patch?

(note: before i begin this comment, i'll state that my annoyance is not directed at you)

You know how to make warden appealing? give the class some more skills that are fun. at the moment, we have 4 very basic raw skills. it's quite boring because don't really have quantity or quality of skills. sure fetcher is decent damage but they just do damage. We also have a whole boatload of people who want to play an ice mage. We also have several morphs that are underused quite severely most of these are IN THE WINTER'S EMBRACE LINE! Ice is the key to Magden DPS. adding Ice DPS skills is the direction ZOS should take with it. because like it or not? "Ice is intended to be a tanking element" is *** and it doesn't work, lore-wise or gameplay-wise.

these skills should be interesting, useful and should deal reliable and good frost damage as a bottom line.

true, zos needs to do that.

if you want to talk about it more with a like-minded community, check out my signature. it's got the link there.

Arunei · January 2019

@Gnozo
People argue the lore reasons behind a Necromancer Class because Necromancy is pretty much abhorred by every nation in Tamriel. Sure, we have the TG and the DB, which are thieves and assassins and stuff, and our 'hero' characters can be these less-than-legal-and-moral types of people, but necromancy in TES is pretty much regarded as much worse than those 'professions'. Just like how Vampires and Weres are generally KOS because of being feared and hated across Tamriel, necromancy is seen in much the same light. It's vile and the use of such magicks are generally seen as irredeemable in the eyes of the average person, even if the intent behind the use is benevolent. It's really easy to be a good person when you start using stuff like necromancy, but then the power starts going to your head and the like.

So essentially, it's because necromancy is seen as evil and those who practice it are thus seen as evil too, even if they aren't evil people.

At any rate, I'm fine with new Classes being introduced. More variety is always a good thing, though I'm really hoping it isn't actually another Class with summons like the Sorc. If they're more like the Warden where they're only 'summoned' for the duration of an attack, like the Shalk for Sub Assault, then that'd be fine. But please, no more perma-pets that get in the way with interacting with NPCs and the environment, making a lot of annoying noises and just generally getting in the way.

I can see where a lot of other people are against new Classes, especially those people who devote a lot of energy and time to one or two characters. But I mean...do people honestly think no new Classes are going to ever be introduced again or something? Even six Classes feels a bit like a low number of choices, but that might just be me. I'd have preferred something other than Necromancer, but I'll reserve judgement for when we get info from the PTS.

Stebarnz · January 2019

Game runs crap, bugs all over, lots of stuff need reworking.

Instead of addressing this ZOS decides to bring out new content and class that will make it even worse.

Oh well, so long as they get their $$$ they don't care. /pray it flops.

Zardayne · January 2019

I'm all for a new class myself. They do need to fix my clunky ass magden though..

Shawn_PT · January 2019

Variety is great. Options are great. Balance of said variety is questionable at times. New class is something fresh. But even though many people are excited and with reason, I see why others would be against it. These are my personal reasons:

1- I'm gonna have to buy the class to try it. That's reasonable but still makes one sigh.

2- I'm gonna have to buy a character slot as well. I'm on 8/8 and that's plenty of characters already. I've put enough work into all of them to delete one now, and my mule exists for a reason. So I'll have to pay two times to have the new class.

3- Having to decide on the new character's specs. Mag? Stam? DD? Healer? Tank? Which race would be the best fit? Would I make a mistake by picking Nord? Would I be forced into an alliance I don't like in order to be even remotely effective in combat? Or will I be forced to pay a third time to have the Any-Alliance perk?

4- Selecting name, gender, and looks. Yes it's a game. But I like my characters to look half decent. Particularly because changing so much as the tilt of one eye means forking out even more money. Which I refuse to do. It's absurd, that price.

5- Trying to fit the character and its abilities with one of my original characters. As a smalltime fantasy writer, it feels great being able to pass my ideas into a 3D world and control them directly. Friend of mine wrote a necromancer. I don't. It's never gonna feel right creating Random McRandomface, spending some time on them and then realizing I want to change the looks, the name, the whatever because it finally clicked and... not gonna delete something with so much time invested and forking out even more money is not gonna happen.

6- Having to grind everything all over again. Undaunted. Mages. Fighters. Psijic. Levels. Skyshards. Not looking forward to that.

7- Having to grind gear for it and blindly learning to play the class. After people have established the 'meta', attempting to chase it just to be half efficient is a bore. I mean, of my 8 chars I only feel confident with 3. I can't magsorc to save my life, not even when they were BiS. My magblading skills are way below par. Even with BiS gear, something is missing no doubt. I've given my perfect Siroria set to my warden just for giggles and I still can't break 20k. What makes me believe my necromancer will actually be fun and powerful even if I get the right gear? Yeah.... it probably won't.

TL; DR: I'll probably still get it to mess around throwing magic skulls at people but here are my personal reasons to not be terribly excited about the new class.

Rain_Greyraven · January 2019

Xvorg wrote: »

My 2 cents:

Necromancer is the worst choice. Period. But there have been necro fans since day one. Those guys will be responsible for problems with ESO in the comming 2 years:

- It will be a pet class, like warden/sorc, but with much more powerful pets. People is gonna RANT against how OP are the Necro minions.
- Those minions must be strong enough to sell the class.
- It is gonna be interesting how will the proc sets interact with the stupidmancer class. Can a minion proc your skoria?
- What about PvP? You should be able to spawn dead bodies there, otherwise the class will be crap.
- What about PvE? Will you be able to rezz bosses? If not, then the class is a waste of resources.
- Will the class be like D2 Necro (best class ever made)? Or like Skyrim necro (boring mage with one spell to rezz dead bodies)?
- Magic dmg? Poison dmg? New type of dmg?

One of the best things TES had were their original classes. There are fun premade classes that could have been a great addition to TES, like Rogues, Battlemages (imho the class that should have been included since day 1), Spellswords, Witchunters... but they went for the popular choice, which in this case is a bad choice.

Time to leave this game.

I agree and think the community will be better off.

Sergykid · January 2019

why did they listen to all the edgy kids that wanna play the evil darkness phoenix XxX69 anime villain cool aura hair death bringer destroyer necromancer?

what's next? a witcher? that would actually be awesome. A class that has spells and passives around potions and weapons used.

gepe87 · January 2019

I can sense how people will cry after see necromancer skill line. If warden was designed when the game started being produced, and its an half failure, i really believe that necromancer will be broken. ZoS had 1 yr to create whole class concept and isnt enough with all those dlc released after Summerset.

IronWooshu · January 2019

I cant wait to see the passive changes complaints compounded on top of the Necromancer complaints. I'm already a Warden for life I have no desire to play or level a Necromancer and could careless about them coming to the game.

However Warden needs love and I dont want them getting shelved for this new Necromancer class. However I am happy that alot of people will stop playing Warden to main Necromancer.. so yeah.. less Wardens make me more special.

NyassaV · January 2019

They recently added crit resistance to pets... And now they are making a necromancer class... Likely not a coincidence. Either way with a new class I feel we need global achievements even more than before.

technohic · January 2019

Thinking of how pets do whatever they want most the time with terrible controls in this game; I picture this:

On another note; I think it would be cool if they did a pet class that your abilities became commands for the pet when they were summoned so you could actually control them