PSA - Dragons, Lore and Necromancy (And why it's not Lore-Breaking)

Claudman · January 2019

"dRaGoNs iN sEcOnD eRa iS lOrEbReaKiNg!"

It isn't. It really isn't. This was the song and craze during the release of the Scalecaller/Fang Lair dungeons and it seems to be the craze now. It's not lore-breaking UNLESS there is a large horde of Dragons, this is what seperates TES V: Skyrim and games like ESO or TES: Redguard (which also had a dragon) because SKYRIM had a HORDE OF DRAGONS. Oblivion technically had a Dragon too (an avatar of Akatosh summoned with the Chim-el Adabal).

TES: Redguard had but one dragon who was both a survivor and soldier under the employ of Tiber Septim. While one would argue that Nafaalilargus (or Nahfahlaar in Dovah) is not canon, they can't...For Nafaalilargus was actually spotted centuries before the events of ESO itself. ( https://www.imperial-library.info/content/atlas-dragons )

Mirmulnir and Ahbiilok are two known survivors from the grand draconic extinction according to the book 'Atlas of Dragons' which was a book introduced in Skyrim mind you. If the next expansion apparently has a dragon, it could be either of these two or even a new survivor we didn't know about...

Now for the Necromancy class and theme of Necromancy? Do we seriously have to ask why is this a thing? Abnur Tharn is a Necromancer, guys. He's gonna teach us some tricks. After all, he did say that he'll make us a Necromancer out of us (after having us make that Flesh Atronach).
latest?cb=20140525095850

Faulgor · January 2019

There just aren't enough dragons in the 2nd era that they would be a major threat to anyone or anything. They are in hiding, for good reason. The teaser seems to prtray a scenario that contradicts this, but we'll see.
I think it would be neat if we met and befriended Nafaalilargus, but I have a hard time seeing them as enemies in this era.

Claudman · January 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

There just aren't enough dragons in the 2nd era that they would be a major threat to anyone or anything. They are in hiding, for good reason. The teaser seems to prtray a scenario that contradicts this, but we'll see.
I think it would be neat if we met and befriended Nafaalilargus, but I have a hard time seeing them as enemies in this era.

Presuming that this is Ahbiilok (Or possibly Mirmulnir who would later be resurrected in the 4th Era to fight the Dovahkiin if he died before Alduin came through the fancy time slip) we don't necessarily know how powerful this dragon in particular is nor do we know what pissed off this dragon to come out of hiding. I'm guessing that either Abnur Tharn did something very stupid (considering he has before *cough* Mannimarco) or someone else did.

Or maybe the dragon is a friend and someone around the dragon is being stupid.

Callous2208 · January 2019

Yea I don't think anyone who knows a bit about the lore is saying there can't be any dragons. Just not a horde of them like you stated. The necromancy thing I could take or leave. They exist, maybe in decent numbers. The practice is just shunned, illegal, or outright banned altogether in most regions and for most cultures. I'd hate to be the first guy roleplaying a Redguard Necromancer.

ezio45 · January 2019

to be honest i dont give any craps either way, just make my sorc better and do whatever the crap you want zos

Claudman · January 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

to be honest i dont give any craps either way, just make my sorc better and do whatever the crap you want zos

They'll probably nerf them again and buff stamwarden.

Callous2208 · January 2019

They're probably gonna need to do what they did when Warden came out. Steal some things from another class like Sorc to better compliment Necro.

dogman · January 2019

https://youtu.be/xlOxLq2HULg

Dracane · January 2019

Since this is in response to what I and some other have said earlier, I tell you what the others have said too.
No one says or claims that there are no dragons. But since it's an MMO, there will likely be several dragon opponents, which is lorebreaking. Unless they handle it like Summerset did. Where there is a handful of names Sea Sloads that are bosses and just respawn.

All of this comes as a surprise though. Because there are several interviews where ZoS said, that there will be no real dragons in ESO and we took them by word. Now I understand, ESO probably really takes place during a dragon break and thus, never happened and we all can stop paying attention to it because it's all just an illusion that doesn't need to be believed. A sad and lazy revelation, but at this point more and more likely.

Dragon Breaks don't avoid plotholes or allow creative freedom. All they do is making your lore obsolete and unbelieveable and thus, nobody needs to care really. If this is what this game is supposed to be, go for it.

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

ZOS will for sure provide you answer but let players have fun! dragons have been long missed in ESO!

Claudman · January 2019

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

jaws343 · January 2019

Callous2208 wrote: »

Yea I don't think anyone who knows a bit about the lore is saying there can't be any dragons. Just not a horde of them like you stated. The necromancy thing I could take or leave. They exist, maybe in decent numbers. The practice is just shunned, illegal, or outright banned altogether in most regions and for most cultures. I'd hate to be the first guy roleplaying a Redguard Necromancer.

I never understood the illegal or shunned argument. In every Elder Scrolls game necromancy is illegal or shunned, and yet, you can be a necromancer. Thievery is illegal, and yet, the thieves guild continues to function as an illegal operation.

I think the dragons could be interesting. Since ESO is already operating under a dragon break (most likely), they can play a little loose with the lore. If the tease is any indication, Tharn will probably *** off one of the hidden dragons, sparking some kind of war that probably has one of the gods backing the dragons.

If the datamine is acurate, I like that the dragon storyline looks to progress the entire year. I wonder if they change current overworld areas for players who have progressed beyond the main story. Similar to how they already change a world area when you finish a quest but the area stays the same for players who haven't finished it yet.

Dracane · January 2019

Claudman wrote: »

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

I also consider ESO canon, I love its lore more than that of the previous titles. I am not a Michael Kirkbride Witch.
However if it was officially declaired that ESO is just a dragon break, I would adore it much less. I don't want ESO to be fake and forgotten. I want it to be 100% real lore that actually happened. When we look back from TES 6, I want us to be able to say: Yes, there really was something during the 2nd era. It is conflicting information because so much happened, but there really is something.

I don't want ESO to be but a distant whisper in the future.

Callous2208 · January 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Yea I don't think anyone who knows a bit about the lore is saying there can't be any dragons. Just not a horde of them like you stated. The necromancy thing I could take or leave. They exist, maybe in decent numbers. The practice is just shunned, illegal, or outright banned altogether in most regions and for most cultures. I'd hate to be the first guy roleplaying a Redguard Necromancer.

I never understood the illegal or shunned argument. In every Elder Scrolls game necromancy is illegal or shunned, and yet, you can be a necromancer. Thievery is illegal, and yet, the thieves guild continues to function as an illegal operation.

I think the dragons could be interesting. Since ESO is already operating under a dragon break (most likely), they can play a little loose with the lore. If the tease is any indication, Tharn will probably *** off one of the hidden dragons, sparking some kind of war that probably has one of the gods backing the dragons.

If the datamine is acurate, I like that the dragon storyline looks to progress the entire year. I wonder if they change current overworld areas for players who have progressed beyond the main story. Similar to how they already change a world area when you finish a quest but the area stays the same for players who haven't finished it yet.

I'm not sure what you mean here. These things are just shunned or illegal in Tamriel, I can't speak as to why. I guess their basic moral compass somewhat mirrors what we have in the real world. Just because it's illegal, just like in the real world, people can still choose to do it. I wasn't meaning to argue that it shouldn't be in the game if that's how it came across.

Claudman · January 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

I also consider ESO canon, I love its lore more than that of the previous titles. I am not a Michael Kirkbride Witch.
However if it was officially declaired that ESO is just a dragon break, I would adore it much less. I don't want ESO to be fake and forgotten. I want it to be 100% real lore that actually happened. When we look back from TES 6, I want us to be able to say: Yes, there really was something during the 2nd era. It is conflicting information because so much happened, but there really is something.

I don't want ESO to be but a distant whisper in the future.

I noticed I misread your post, sorry about that...But Kirkbride on the other hand? He apparently likes ESO's writing...

Yes, I was surprised to when I read his post. It's somewhere on r/TESLore, I'll probably need to dig for that.

Osteos · January 2019

I would much prefer a Paarthurnax type dragon. One we can talk to a do quests for over fighting dragons.

Claudman · January 2019

Osteos wrote: »

I would much prefer a Paarthurnax type dragon. One we can talk to a do quests for over fighting dragons.

Agreed.
We need more friendly dragons.

Dracane · January 2019

Claudman wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

I also consider ESO canon, I love its lore more than that of the previous titles. I am not a Michael Kirkbride Witch.
However if it was officially declaired that ESO is just a dragon break, I would adore it much less. I don't want ESO to be fake and forgotten. I want it to be 100% real lore that actually happened. When we look back from TES 6, I want us to be able to say: Yes, there really was something during the 2nd era. It is conflicting information because so much happened, but there really is something.

I don't want ESO to be but a distant whisper in the future.

I noticed I misread your post, sorry about that...But Kirkbride on the other hand? He apparently likes ESO's writing...

Yes, I was surprised to when I read his post.

I don't know his stance on ESO. I think people who find themselves debating eso lore might understand what I meant by that.

There are people who cherish Kirkbride. They absord everything he says without questioning and accept it as fact, even if there is no evidence for it in the game. I have found myself debating and fighting with those people very often. Because Kirkbride loved to spread trash and rumors about the Thalmor. Which of course, I do not appreciate.

What I mean by that: I am not someone who only believed what Morrowind etc. has established. Because Kirkbride Priests pretty much despise ESO lore and say it's fake. I do not.

Claudman · January 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

I also consider ESO canon, I love its lore more than that of the previous titles. I am not a Michael Kirkbride Witch.
However if it was officially declaired that ESO is just a dragon break, I would adore it much less. I don't want ESO to be fake and forgotten. I want it to be 100% real lore that actually happened. When we look back from TES 6, I want us to be able to say: Yes, there really was something during the 2nd era. It is conflicting information because so much happened, but there really is something.

I don't want ESO to be but a distant whisper in the future.

I noticed I misread your post, sorry about that...But Kirkbride on the other hand? He apparently likes ESO's writing...

Yes, I was surprised to when I read his post.

I don't know his stance on ESO. I think people who find themselves debating eso lore might understand what I meant by that.

There are people who cherish Kirkbride. They absord everything he says without questioning and accept it as fact, even if there is no evidence for it in the game. I have found myself debating and fighting with those people very often. Because Kirkbride loved to spread trash and rumors about the Thalmor. Which of course, I do not appreciate.

What I mean by that: I am not someone who only believed what Morrowind etc. has established. Because Kirkbride Priests pretty much despise ESO lore and say it's fake. I do not.

As someone who's a lorebuff of TES, Kirkbride's word on the lore lost all of its power after he was laid off. Kirkbride Priests believe that Proto-Nymic Time-Dwemer-Witch-Robot-Things and Hist/Jilian War Spaceships are canon in lore. They're as crazy as him.

Micheal Kirkbride has good ideas, but he is one of those writers who desperately needs a filter (i.e. someone to tell him that a writing idea isn't a good idea)...Otherwise you get stufff like Vehk ****ing Molag Bal. Lawrence Schick is doing a good job with the lore I reckon as well as the other writers with him.

The good thing about ESO is that if gives every race culture and character, something the races desperately needed (since you can barely see the 'cultural stuff' in Skyrim and Oblivion).

Dracane · January 2019

Claudman wrote: »

As someone who's a lorebuff of TES, Kirkbride's word on the lore lost all of its power after he was laid off. Kirkbride Priests believe that Proto-Nymic Time-Dwemer-Witch-Robot-Things and Hist/Jilian War Spaceships are canon in lore. They're as crazy as him.

Micheal Kirkbride has good ideas, but he is one of those writers who desperately needs a filter (i.e. someone to tell him that a writing idea isn't a good idea)...Otherwise you get stufff like Vehk ****ing Molag Bal. Lawrence Schick is doing a good job with the lore I reckon as well as the other writers with him.

The good thing about ESO is that if gives every race culture and character, something the races desperately needed (since you can barely see the 'cultural stuff' in Skyrim and Oblivion).

Absolutely correct. Kirkbride has spread so many ridiculous stories, I can't even.
He claims that my beloved and cherished Queen Ayrenn, my big idol, is some evil lady named Kinmune. O.o Give me a break, is what they say yes ?

The cultural depth is also what I love about ESO. I learned so much more about my favorite races. Even though I felt let down by Summerset, almost even dissapointed. There wasn't alot of lore there.

OtarTheMad · January 2019

According to the Atlas of Dragons at least 4 survived but we know of more than that. You have the one who is in the Soul Cairn (Durnehviir), the one who is in Blackreach (Vulthuryol), the two different looking ones in The Chantry (Naalslaarum, Voslaarum). Including the 3 mentioned before and the one at the top of High Hrothgar that is a decent amount of Dragons still alive. Those are just named ones too, I bet countless unnamed dragons escaped and hid anywhere they could.

Claudman · January 2019

OtarTheMad wrote: »

According to the Atlas of Dragons at least 4 survived but we know of more than that. You have the one who is in the Soul Cairn (Durnehviir), the one who is in Blackreach (Vulthuryol), the two different looking ones in The Chantry (Naalslaarum, Voslaarum). Including the 3 mentioned before and the one at the top of High Hrothgar that is a decent amount of Dragons still alive. Those are just named ones too, I bet countless unnamed dragons escaped and hid anywhere they could.

Right! I forgot to mention those.

Colecovision · January 2019

Claudman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

I'd love to ask a follow up right then and there. If ESO ever has players getting heavy armor stats while running around in a wedding dress, do you think the game will have strayed too far?

Aliyavana · January 2019

Colecovision wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

I'd love to ask a follow up right then and there. If ESO ever has players getting heavy armor stats while running around in a wedding dress, do you think the game will have strayed too far?

Illusion magic

Colecovision · January 2019

Aliyavana wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

I'd love to ask a follow up right then and there. If ESO ever has players getting heavy armor stats while running around in a wedding dress, do you think the game will have strayed too far?

Illusion magic

On everyone, all the time, permanently, regardless of a characters skills with mag, with no mag cost? I did make a constant effect bound armor ring in TES III. It had bound armor stats though.

Idk, you're not wrong in terms of the kind of offering an excuse they can give, it's just the kind of stuff that makes me think that when the game eventually goes offline, then it's contribution to the series will be gone as well.

Claudman · January 2019

Colecovision wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

I'd love to ask a follow up right then and there. If ESO ever has players getting heavy armor stats while running around in a wedding dress, do you think the game will have strayed too far?

Illusion magic

On everyone, all the time, permanently, regardless of a characters skills with mag, with no mag cost? I did make a constant effect bound armor ring in TES III. It had bound armor stats though.

Idk, you're not wrong in terms of the kind of offering an excuse they can give, it's just the kind of stuff that makes me think that when the game eventually goes offline, then it's contribution to the series will be gone as well.

Gameplay =/= Lore.

Faulgor · January 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

I also consider ESO canon, I love its lore more than that of the previous titles. I am not a Michael Kirkbride Witch.
However if it was officially declaired that ESO is just a dragon break, I would adore it much less. I don't want ESO to be fake and forgotten. I want it to be 100% real lore that actually happened. When we look back from TES 6, I want us to be able to say: Yes, there really was something during the 2nd era. It is conflicting information because so much happened, but there really is something.

I don't want ESO to be but a distant whisper in the future.

I noticed I misread your post, sorry about that...But Kirkbride on the other hand? He apparently likes ESO's writing...

Yes, I was surprised to when I read his post.

I don't know his stance on ESO. I think people who find themselves debating eso lore might understand what I meant by that.

There are people who cherish Kirkbride. They absord everything he says without questioning and accept it as fact, even if there is no evidence for it in the game. I have found myself debating and fighting with those people very often. Because Kirkbride loved to spread trash and rumors about the Thalmor. Which of course, I do not appreciate.

What I mean by that: I am not someone who only believed what Morrowind etc. has established. Because Kirkbride Priests pretty much despise ESO lore and say it's fake. I do not.

As a Kirkbride Acolyte, I'd never say ESO lore is fake. Nothing in TES canon is fake, just different degrees of interesting.
But I find it equally nonsensical to say that Kirkbride had no more power on the lore once he left Bethesda when his works continue to make it into the games in one form or another. ESO:Morrowind basically gave C0DA a handshake. There has always been some cross-pollination between developers and outside influences (MK and Schick are friends anyway), and to define a rigid canon or "truth" is doomed to end in puritanical witchhunts.

Regardless, I don't think that has much to do with the issue of Dragons in Elsweyr in the 2nd era. We'll just have to wait and see how they explain themselves out of this one. Could be interesting!

Claudman · January 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

I also consider ESO canon, I love its lore more than that of the previous titles. I am not a Michael Kirkbride Witch.
However if it was officially declaired that ESO is just a dragon break, I would adore it much less. I don't want ESO to be fake and forgotten. I want it to be 100% real lore that actually happened. When we look back from TES 6, I want us to be able to say: Yes, there really was something during the 2nd era. It is conflicting information because so much happened, but there really is something.

I don't want ESO to be but a distant whisper in the future.

I noticed I misread your post, sorry about that...But Kirkbride on the other hand? He apparently likes ESO's writing...

Yes, I was surprised to when I read his post.

I don't know his stance on ESO. I think people who find themselves debating eso lore might understand what I meant by that.

There are people who cherish Kirkbride. They absord everything he says without questioning and accept it as fact, even if there is no evidence for it in the game. I have found myself debating and fighting with those people very often. Because Kirkbride loved to spread trash and rumors about the Thalmor. Which of course, I do not appreciate.

What I mean by that: I am not someone who only believed what Morrowind etc. has established. Because Kirkbride Priests pretty much despise ESO lore and say it's fake. I do not.

As a Kirkbride Acolyte, I'd never say ESO lore is fake. Nothing in TES canon is fake, just different degrees of interesting.
But I find it equally nonsensical to say that Kirkbride had no more power on the lore once he left Bethesda when his works continue to make it into the games in one form or another. ESO:Morrowind basically gave C0DA a handshake. There has always been some cross-pollination between developers and outside influences (MK and Schick are friends anyway), and to define a rigid canon or "truth" is doomed to end in puritanical witchhunts.

Regardless, I don't think that has much to do with the issue of Dragons in Elsweyr in the 2nd era. We'll just have to wait and see how they explain themselves out of this one. Could be interesting!

I think Kirkbride just needs a filter/editor for his work is all. TES3: Morrowind obviously wasn't bad, but...I don't know about say KINMUNE or the Magna-Ge stuff. I'd have to say no to those works until they are 'cleaned'.

Faulgor · January 2019

Claudman wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Dracane

"thus never happened"

Actually, on the contrary. To claim that ESO is a Dragon Break means that it did happen and that everything in ESO doesn't effect the "MAIN" timeline, but everything in ESO is canon. Plus...No one said it was a Dragon Break and numerous times Bethesda has further stated that ESO is canon (so did ZoS). They make the game, they make the rules.

Now for the dragons...No one said they're going to be multiple bosses, we don't know, because there is no information. Just brief datamine scraps (which could also be old data that was lying around).

I also consider ESO canon, I love its lore more than that of the previous titles. I am not a Michael Kirkbride Witch.
However if it was officially declaired that ESO is just a dragon break, I would adore it much less. I don't want ESO to be fake and forgotten. I want it to be 100% real lore that actually happened. When we look back from TES 6, I want us to be able to say: Yes, there really was something during the 2nd era. It is conflicting information because so much happened, but there really is something.

I don't want ESO to be but a distant whisper in the future.

I noticed I misread your post, sorry about that...But Kirkbride on the other hand? He apparently likes ESO's writing...

Yes, I was surprised to when I read his post.

I don't know his stance on ESO. I think people who find themselves debating eso lore might understand what I meant by that.

There are people who cherish Kirkbride. They absord everything he says without questioning and accept it as fact, even if there is no evidence for it in the game. I have found myself debating and fighting with those people very often. Because Kirkbride loved to spread trash and rumors about the Thalmor. Which of course, I do not appreciate.

What I mean by that: I am not someone who only believed what Morrowind etc. has established. Because Kirkbride Priests pretty much despise ESO lore and say it's fake. I do not.

As a Kirkbride Acolyte, I'd never say ESO lore is fake. Nothing in TES canon is fake, just different degrees of interesting.
But I find it equally nonsensical to say that Kirkbride had no more power on the lore once he left Bethesda when his works continue to make it into the games in one form or another. ESO:Morrowind basically gave C0DA a handshake. There has always been some cross-pollination between developers and outside influences (MK and Schick are friends anyway), and to define a rigid canon or "truth" is doomed to end in puritanical witchhunts.

Regardless, I don't think that has much to do with the issue of Dragons in Elsweyr in the 2nd era. We'll just have to wait and see how they explain themselves out of this one. Could be interesting!

I think Kirkbride just needs a filter/editor for his work is all. TES3: Morrowind obviously wasn't bad, but...I don't know about say KINMUNE or the Magna-Ge stuff. I'd have to say no to those works until they are 'cleaned'.

I don't disagree, but I always thought the enjoyable thing about TES is that you have to "clean" the lore-bits yourself.

scrub scrub scrub

Danikat · January 2019

Here's the thing I don't understand: why do people say "ESO is a dragon break" as if that somehow justifies lore-breaking events, items etc. and means none of it will actually have happened?

During a dragon break time is non-linear so things can happen out of order or a person or object can be in multiple places at once (like at the end of Daggerfall where the Totem of Tiber Septim was given to 7 different people and they all used it in different ways...all at the same time). How it happened is usually inexplicable because there's no way to put events into order, but each individual event still has to be possible in Tamriel normally. And when the dragon break ends and time returns to normal all those things still happened.

A dragon break could be used to explain things like being able to play Summerset before doing the main story, or playing through all 3 Alliance's stories (although they've already explained that with Meridia). But it can't write events out of history, whether you like them or not.

Claudman · January 2019

Danikat wrote: »

Here's the thing I don't understand: why do people say "ESO is a dragon break" as if that somehow justifies lore-breaking events, items etc. and means none of it will actually have happened?

During a dragon break time is non-linear so things can happen out of order or a person or object can be in multiple places at once (like at the end of Daggerfall where the Totem of Tiber Septim was given to 7 different people and they all used it in different ways...all at the same time). How it happened is usually inexplicable because there's no way to put events into order, but each individual event still has to be possible in Tamriel normally. And when the dragon break ends and time returns to normal all those things still happened.

A dragon break could be used to explain things like being able to play Summerset before doing the main story, or playing through all 3 Alliance's stories (although they've already explained that with Meridia). But it can't write events out of history, whether you like them or not.

Exactly! Even if ESO is a Dragon Break, everything in ESO is still canon.