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A Stealthy Monster Set for Assassins/Thieves Would Be Awesome
GrumpyDuckling
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A monster set for assassins and thieves would be a ton of fun for sneaky builds, so here is a theorycrafted idea for one:
(1 item) Reduces detection radius while sneaking by 2 meters. Attacks from stealth grant Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery depending on higher stat pool.
(2 items) Move 25% faster while sneaking. Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching. Attacks from stealth grant Major Brutality or Major Sorcery depending on higher stat pool.
Feel free to offer up suggestions for names. I had been thinking about lore-based names concerning Sithis (Dark Brotherhood) and Nocturnal (Thieves Guild/Nightingales), but I never settled on one I liked.
(1 item) Reduces detection radius while sneaking by 2 meters. Attacks from stealth grant Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery depending on higher stat pool.
(2 items) Move 25% faster while sneaking. Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching. Attacks from stealth grant Major Brutality or Major Sorcery depending on higher stat pool.
Feel free to offer up suggestions for names. I had been thinking about lore-based names concerning Sithis (Dark Brotherhood) and Nocturnal (Thieves Guild/Nightingales), but I never settled on one I liked.
5
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Names have to do with the dungeon and the affects are often somewhat related as well.
I doubt Nocturnal will make another appearance anytime toon so that can be tossed. So still possible to have a dungeon made with Sithis or one a Sithis acolyte of some sort.0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭we don't really need to buff stealth playstyles more. the more fair playstyles that play melee distance have balorgh, bowblades don't really need a monster setEdited by Aliyavana on January 6, 2019 6:35AM2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭we don't really need to buff stealth playstyles more. the more fair playstyles that play melee distance have balorgh, bowblades don't really need a monster set
I have to agree that we do not need buffs to stealth and it is fair since anyone can easily stealth in the context of what OP has suggested. Though I do not think the set would be popular since it so limiting. Also, the one piece bonus is a little OP. That would never fly for a one piece.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭we don't really need to buff stealth playstyles more. the more fair playstyles that play melee distance have balorgh, bowblades don't really need a monster set
I think it's a mostly PVE set.
Momentum is so good in PVP that Major Brutality is redundant. So it comes down to would sneak speed + Minor Brutality be worth using this 2 piece set for a bowblade in PVP?0 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭(1) increase weapon damage
(2) increase damage of snipe from stealth by 2500
/sarcasm0 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sneak isn't very useful in pvp outside of hiding and waiting to ambush. can't fight while in sneak. Perma cloaking magblades are what's wrong with stealth.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.1 -
ScruffyWhiskers✭✭✭✭✭1. Increase weapon and spell damage
2. Damage from stealth or invis is increased 10%
3 Players with the name Scruffy Whiskers no longer suffer from battle spirit damage reduction
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.1 -
biggda76✭✭✭Sneak speed is highly overperforming and it ought to be nerfed, people can move too fast while in sneak2
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GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.
Removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching is an out-of-combat bonus (much like the Vampire passive that allows vamps to enter sneak 50% faster at night). It doesn't immediately stop the fact that you're in combat. Once engaged in combat a character can't just sneak and become hidden -- that's not how sneak works.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.
Removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching is an out-of-combat bonus (much like the Vampire passive that allows vamps to enter sneak 50% faster at night). It doesn't immediately stop the fact that you're in combat. Once engaged in combat a character can't just sneak and become hidden -- that's not how sneak works.
Cloak -> crouch -> immediate sneak on demand -> stun on every attack. You can sneak in combat unless something breaks your sneak.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.
Removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching is an out-of-combat bonus (much like the Vampire passive that allows vamps to enter sneak 50% faster at night). It doesn't immediately stop the fact that you're in combat. Once engaged in combat a character can't just sneak and become hidden -- that's not how sneak works.
Cloak -> crouch -> immediate sneak on demand -> stun on every attack. You can sneak in combat unless something breaks your sneak.
If it's a problem with how it pairs with cloak, then I guess removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching would have to be made PVE-specific (like the stun on Ambush) or simply removed.0 -
Zelos✭✭✭✭✭I have a good monster set:)
(1 item) Adds 100 ping
(2 item) When under the effects of lag, desync, frame rate decline, or cyrodiil pvp. You have a 8% chance to return to the login screen.
Wait it might already exist:)Edited by Zelos on January 6, 2019 4:11PMAeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.
Removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching is an out-of-combat bonus (much like the Vampire passive that allows vamps to enter sneak 50% faster at night). It doesn't immediately stop the fact that you're in combat. Once engaged in combat a character can't just sneak and become hidden -- that's not how sneak works.
Cloak -> crouch -> immediate sneak on demand -> stun on every attack. You can sneak in combat unless something breaks your sneak.
If it's a problem with how it pairs with cloak, then I guess removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching would have to be made PVE-specific (like the stun on Ambush) or simply removed.
Here's a very decent expanation on how sneaking works.
I think you understand why people have a problem with your "no sneak timer" idea? And asking for anything PvE-specifc from ZOS is just stupid. They don't balance PvP separately. After all the adjustments your set will look something liket that
1) Increase sneak speed by 25%
2) Attacks from stealth grant Major Brutality or Major Sorcery
I don't think this is the kind of set you wanted. And even then I can see some of the "fair-PvP-bow-gankers-must-be-lynched" people being agains that idea.
0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Something more reasonable would be:
1) Reduces movement costs of stealth by x%
2) Increase physical penetration by 1487. Increase spell penetration by 1487. While in stealth or cloak, detection radius from hostile monsters and NPCs is decreased by 50%.1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.
Removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching is an out-of-combat bonus (much like the Vampire passive that allows vamps to enter sneak 50% faster at night). It doesn't immediately stop the fact that you're in combat. Once engaged in combat a character can't just sneak and become hidden -- that's not how sneak works.
Cloak -> crouch -> immediate sneak on demand -> stun on every attack. You can sneak in combat unless something breaks your sneak.
If it's a problem with how it pairs with cloak, then I guess removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching would have to be made PVE-specific (like the stun on Ambush) or simply removed.
Here's a very decent expanation on how sneaking works.
I think you understand why people have a problem with your "no sneak timer" idea? And asking for anything PvE-specifc from ZOS is just stupid. They don't balance PvP separately. After all the adjustments your set will look something liket that
1) Increase sneak speed by 25%
2) Attacks from stealth grant Major Brutality or Major Sorcery
I don't think this is the kind of set you wanted. And even then I can see some of the "fair-PvP-bow-gankers-must-be-lynched" people being agains that idea.
I think you can relax. I didn't "ask[..] for anything PVE-specific from ZOS" so you don't need to call an incorrect assumption of my statement "stupid." I listed the PVE-specific idea as an option, and pointed to the way Ambush works as an example -- and I also provided the option of simply removing the idea. No requests for anything were made, and I simply listed options to think about.
We're talking about a theorycrafted set that I thought would be fun to discuss. I would like to keep it to discussion free from insults.0 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭This could be really cool, but at the moment I think the general way stealth works has become a large issue in PVP, so id worry that while this could make a really fun play-style it could worsen an already bad problem.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.
Removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching is an out-of-combat bonus (much like the Vampire passive that allows vamps to enter sneak 50% faster at night). It doesn't immediately stop the fact that you're in combat. Once engaged in combat a character can't just sneak and become hidden -- that's not how sneak works.
Cloak -> crouch -> immediate sneak on demand -> stun on every attack. You can sneak in combat unless something breaks your sneak.
If it's a problem with how it pairs with cloak, then I guess removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching would have to be made PVE-specific (like the stun on Ambush) or simply removed.
Here's a very decent expanation on how sneaking works.
I think you understand why people have a problem with your "no sneak timer" idea? And asking for anything PvE-specifc from ZOS is just stupid. They don't balance PvP separately. After all the adjustments your set will look something liket that
1) Increase sneak speed by 25%
2) Attacks from stealth grant Major Brutality or Major Sorcery
I don't think this is the kind of set you wanted. And even then I can see some of the "fair-PvP-bow-gankers-must-be-lynched" people being agains that idea.
I think you can relax. I didn't "ask[..] for anything PVE-specific from ZOS" so you don't need to call an incorrect assumption of my statement "stupid." I listed the PVE-specific idea as an option, and pointed to the way Ambush works as an example -- and I also provided the option of simply removing the idea. No requests for anything were made, and I simply listed options to think about.
We're talking about a theorycrafted set that I thought would be fun to discuss. I would like to keep it to discussion free from insults.
There is nothing wrong with calling things what they are. This is not a good idea. Your "theorycrafted" set is not possible in the current framework of the game and thus has no ground to stand on. It is a pile of OP that breaks many basic game mechanics.
Provides a common secondary effect.
Provides two Minor buffs that should only be accessible through class specific means.
Provides a unique strong secondary effect.
Provides an insanely OP and unique major effect.
Provides a Major buff.
Requires ZOS to adjust the idea for PvE and PvP separately.
There is nothing fun about this set because the whole idea of it ever making it's way into the game is completely asinine.
If you want to talk about actual theorycrafted set it has to be toned down into something a lot more reasonable. I'm not opposed to something like:
1) reduces the cost of sneak and detection radius
2) removes stealth speed penalty
A proper "stealth oriented" set with no offensive buffs. Everything else is just being greedy.2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »No becuse PvP.
Does it really even mess with PVP balance all that much?
Access to Minor Brutality or Minor Sorcery is rare so I could understand an argument for that being too strong, but beyond that I don't see how it buffs PVP sneaking/stealth that much.
- 2 meter radius reduction isn't that big of a deal in PVP
- Move 25% faster while sneaking is nice for moving around while in sneak (note that it says sneak, not while "invisible" so Magblade vampires can't just cloak to move very fast, they'd have to be sneaking/using stamina, which can't occur mid combat)
- Removes the time it takes to enter sneak when crouching shouldn't matter too much in Cyrodiil -- one can't enter sneak while in combat
- Major Brutality is redundant with Momentum for Stamblades and barely any magicka skills do damage from stealth so Major Sorcery wouldn't activate unless a Magblade goes high risk for a melee range Concealed Weapon
I also can't see many PVP sneaky/ganking players preferring a set like this over something like Balorgh.
Yes.
Minor Brutality and Minor Sorcery are class specifc buffs for DK and Templar and by design should not be available through other means.
Detection radius is a lot. It is already a problem to uncloak NBs with Magelight/Hunter because they are affected by it.
Sneak speed is ok.
Immediate sneak is a massive gamechanger. You can enter sneak in combat. Your idea turns sneak into an on demand cloak available to all classes. Not even talking about sneak buffing your every attack thanks to immediate activation of sneak bonuses. This will be hialrious for one day but after that everyone will quit PvP.
Major Brutality and Sorcery will be a buff to bow/bow gankers and even though I disagree with people who want this playstyle deleted I see no reason to buff it either.
Every ganker will be all other such a broken set. Just the double stealth attack will be broken OP. And no ganker sits around waiting for 500 ulti to use Balrogh. It is a brawler tank and spank set for ulti dumps. A ganker wants to go in fast and get out even faster, they are never going to charge 500 ulti.
You're telling me that crouching during combat actually puts a character into sneak?
If you remove the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching? Yes.
Removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching is an out-of-combat bonus (much like the Vampire passive that allows vamps to enter sneak 50% faster at night). It doesn't immediately stop the fact that you're in combat. Once engaged in combat a character can't just sneak and become hidden -- that's not how sneak works.
Cloak -> crouch -> immediate sneak on demand -> stun on every attack. You can sneak in combat unless something breaks your sneak.
If it's a problem with how it pairs with cloak, then I guess removing the time it takes to enter sneak after crouching would have to be made PVE-specific (like the stun on Ambush) or simply removed.
Here's a very decent expanation on how sneaking works.
I think you understand why people have a problem with your "no sneak timer" idea? And asking for anything PvE-specifc from ZOS is just stupid. They don't balance PvP separately. After all the adjustments your set will look something liket that
1) Increase sneak speed by 25%
2) Attacks from stealth grant Major Brutality or Major Sorcery
I don't think this is the kind of set you wanted. And even then I can see some of the "fair-PvP-bow-gankers-must-be-lynched" people being agains that idea.
I think you can relax. I didn't "ask[..] for anything PVE-specific from ZOS" so you don't need to call an incorrect assumption of my statement "stupid." I listed the PVE-specific idea as an option, and pointed to the way Ambush works as an example -- and I also provided the option of simply removing the idea. No requests for anything were made, and I simply listed options to think about.
We're talking about a theorycrafted set that I thought would be fun to discuss. I would like to keep it to discussion free from insults.
There is nothing wrong with calling things what they are. This is not a good idea. Your "theorycrafted" set is not possible in the current framework of the game and thus has no ground to stand on. It is a pile of OP that breaks many basic game mechanics.
Provides a common secondary effect.
Provides two Minor buffs that should only be accessible through class specific means.
Provides a unique strong secondary effect.
Provides an insanely OP and unique major effect.
Provides a Major buff.
Requires ZOS to adjust the idea for PvE and PvP separately.
There is nothing fun about this set because the whole idea of it ever making it's way into the game is completely asinine.
If you want to talk about actual theorycrafted set it has to be toned down into something a lot more reasonable. I'm not opposed to something like:
1) reduces the cost of sneak and detection radius
2) removes stealth speed penalty
A proper "stealth oriented" set with no offensive buffs. Everything else is just being greedy.
Relax. There's no need to insult (again) just because you disagree with a hypothetical set. Just say that you disagree and do your best to provide reasons why. That's it. Tossing in insults doesn't benefit anyone nor contribute to the discussion.0
