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‘Cheating Nightblades’
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Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »To be fair that issue should be resolved long ago and keep that was taken and is no longer under siege should apply permanent hide/cloak reveal to every enemy inside keep walls. Nightblades staying in keeps and slaying people inside like it's nothing and then just safely going back to hide is just flawed game design. I have nothing about people staying in enemy keep and fighting in it after it's no longer under siege but nightblades just take it one step too far.
and i made it clear that anyone can do that.
you dont need to be a nightblade to go permastealth.
anyone can stealth and stay stealthed with sneak and invis potions.
"anyone"
"any class"
that has nothing to do with game design, it has to do with the fact that people in a pvp zone getting angry that they were killed.
as allways
You tried to lie that anyone can do that. You need to be a nightblade to do it effectively inside enemy keep in other case guards will have good laugh.
I recommend You to try to sneak inside enemy keep and stay hidden without use of cloak , later to fight some people kill them and reenter stealth later compare it to effectiveness of the same procces while using cloak and THEN come back with comments. Also to talk about "anyone" or "any class" it would be nice to play a little on them before making comments about their playstyles while playing stamblade all the time. Your bias is so strong You're making it way to easy to counter Your arguments.
That have everything to do with game design. Cloak is the only ability in the game that allows for smooth transition from combat to hide which in that case allows to vanish from sight of all-seeing guards.
My guild has done it numerous times, hiding in a keep. Yes, some were NB's but most of them were templars, sorc and DK's. All you need to do is during the hectic fight hide somewhere in a corner where the guards can't see you and enter sneak mode.
Done it multiple times with different classes. It's not only NB's who do it.
It's only the nb who can repeat it. It's not about hiding during siege and sitting in 1 place in sneak it's about effective going in and out of stealth in between fights in enemy keep after it was repaired.
I thought the discussion was about "cheating nightblades" who hide in the keep after it is repaired and siege from the inside the inner keep. Any class can do that.
But yes, once a NB is inside the keep he has a much easier time to fight players inside the keep and get away with it. Other classes cannot escape that easily once they engage an enemy inside the keep.
That's one small trait NB's have.
(i am aware people really dislike cloak and being bursted in one second by an enemy they cannot hit because they are so fast and movable and can ue LOS so good. But they are the stamina version of NB. Once cloak is nerfed, the magicka version is dead, especially a melee magblade. Already there are very few out there)٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."0 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭On Xbox NA we had a NB do this. He killed a bunch of people. Even me. We hunted him for a good twenty minutes using mage light and AOEs. Popped him out a couple of times, but to no avail. We finally gave up. Then a group of AD showed up to take the keep. I went to the balcony over the main entrance and dropped my oil. Hoping he would come try to take me out. Sure enough he did. Immediately popped wings and hit em with wall of flames, eruption, a stun and whipped him death. Was a very satisfying kill.
I have nothing against this type of game play. But I understand how it can be frustrating. It's working as intended and makes the game interesting.1 -
CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭Do a round with a detect spell or potion if you are worried about leaving a enemy unside.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Pretty much this. I remember the days when as one group repaired the keep others would run around checking for anyone hiding inside (especially if some of the dead were holding release), but seems these days tactics are lacking.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Anyone whom enters sneak is undetectable
not just nightblades
and Anyone whom takes invisibility potion and stay in sneak can, as you say'
" remain undetected for as long as they want."
This.
However, the bigger issue is I rarely see players sweeping keeps and outposts after they take it or defended it. That is where the failure is. It used to be something we did pretty much every time. Now it is just take it and move on.
Tactics have been lacking overall for a long time. Even casual groups used tactics back in the day.
This has nothing to do with tactics and everything with the way the game is designed. The game has no incentive for stealth sweeping and THIS is why players do not do it. You get ap for most things, but not for sweeping. While you're sweeping a keep someone else is getting ap for repairing or taking a resource. It's a no brainer why people don't do it.
A keep gets taken, walls repaired and players either more to the next or port back to get rewards. New players port into the keep thinking it's 'safe', some go afk and get ganked. And so they should, if you don't take precautions vs a gank or a vd bomb it's on you. A keep, even walled and 'secure', is still a pvp zone and should be treated as such.
And if you're a NB who likes to gank in a keep and get tells then take it as a job well done and pat yourself on the back.
It has everything to do with tactics just as it has to do with common sense.
The problem lies in your reply. That players think there is not benefit for me so why should I bother and they just move to the next target.
You merely demonstrated my comments are correct. thx.1 -
Sacredx✭✭✭
Pretty much this. I remember the days when as one group repaired the keep others would run around checking for anyone hiding inside (especially if some of the dead were holding release), but seems these days tactics are lacking.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Anyone whom enters sneak is undetectable
not just nightblades
and Anyone whom takes invisibility potion and stay in sneak can, as you say'
" remain undetected for as long as they want."
This.
However, the bigger issue is I rarely see players sweeping keeps and outposts after they take it or defended it. That is where the failure is. It used to be something we did pretty much every time. Now it is just take it and move on.
Tactics have been lacking overall for a long time. Even casual groups used tactics back in the day.
This has nothing to do with tactics and everything with the way the game is designed. The game has no incentive for stealth sweeping and THIS is why players do not do it. You get ap for most things, but not for sweeping. While you're sweeping a keep someone else is getting ap for repairing or taking a resource. It's a no brainer why people don't do it.
A keep gets taken, walls repaired and players either more to the next or port back to get rewards. New players port into the keep thinking it's 'safe', some go afk and get ganked. And so they should, if you don't take precautions vs a gank or a vd bomb it's on you. A keep, even walled and 'secure', is still a pvp zone and should be treated as such.
And if you're a NB who likes to gank in a keep and get tells then take it as a job well done and pat yourself on the back.
It has everything to do with tactics just as it has to do with common sense.
The problem lies in your reply. That players think there is not benefit for me so why should I bother and they just move to the next target.
You merely demonstrated my comments are correct. thx.
Don't twist my words. I didn't say there is no benefit, I said there is no incentive. Different meanings. There is a benefit, but no incentive to do it.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Pretty much this. I remember the days when as one group repaired the keep others would run around checking for anyone hiding inside (especially if some of the dead were holding release), but seems these days tactics are lacking.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Anyone whom enters sneak is undetectable
not just nightblades
and Anyone whom takes invisibility potion and stay in sneak can, as you say'
" remain undetected for as long as they want."
This.
However, the bigger issue is I rarely see players sweeping keeps and outposts after they take it or defended it. That is where the failure is. It used to be something we did pretty much every time. Now it is just take it and move on.
Tactics have been lacking overall for a long time. Even casual groups used tactics back in the day.
This has nothing to do with tactics and everything with the way the game is designed. The game has no incentive for stealth sweeping and THIS is why players do not do it. You get ap for most things, but not for sweeping. While you're sweeping a keep someone else is getting ap for repairing or taking a resource. It's a no brainer why people don't do it.
A keep gets taken, walls repaired and players either more to the next or port back to get rewards. New players port into the keep thinking it's 'safe', some go afk and get ganked. And so they should, if you don't take precautions vs a gank or a vd bomb it's on you. A keep, even walled and 'secure', is still a pvp zone and should be treated as such.
And if you're a NB who likes to gank in a keep and get tells then take it as a job well done and pat yourself on the back.
It has everything to do with tactics just as it has to do with common sense.
The problem lies in your reply. That players think there is not benefit for me so why should I bother and they just move to the next target.
You merely demonstrated my comments are correct. thx.
Don't twist my words. I didn't say there is no benefit, I said there is no incentive. Different meanings. There is a benefit, but no incentive to do it.
I find it odd you choose to split hairs and ignore the meat and potatoes since I think a logical mind coming in and reading this is not going to think the context was really altered. But to each their own.
I will stick with the topic that it is good tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
Edited by idk on January 6, 2019 7:11AM0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭
Pretty much this. I remember the days when as one group repaired the keep others would run around checking for anyone hiding inside (especially if some of the dead were holding release), but seems these days tactics are lacking.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Anyone whom enters sneak is undetectable
not just nightblades
and Anyone whom takes invisibility potion and stay in sneak can, as you say'
" remain undetected for as long as they want."
This.
However, the bigger issue is I rarely see players sweeping keeps and outposts after they take it or defended it. That is where the failure is. It used to be something we did pretty much every time. Now it is just take it and move on.
Tactics have been lacking overall for a long time. Even casual groups used tactics back in the day.
This has nothing to do with tactics and everything with the way the game is designed. The game has no incentive for stealth sweeping and THIS is why players do not do it. You get ap for most things, but not for sweeping. While you're sweeping a keep someone else is getting ap for repairing or taking a resource. It's a no brainer why people don't do it.
A keep gets taken, walls repaired and players either more to the next or port back to get rewards. New players port into the keep thinking it's 'safe', some go afk and get ganked. And so they should, if you don't take precautions vs a gank or a vd bomb it's on you. A keep, even walled and 'secure', is still a pvp zone and should be treated as such.
And if you're a NB who likes to gank in a keep and get tells then take it as a job well done and pat yourself on the back.
It has everything to do with tactics just as it has to do with common sense.
The problem lies in your reply. That players think there is not benefit for me so why should I bother and they just move to the next target.
You merely demonstrated my comments are correct. thx.
Don't twist my words. I didn't say there is no benefit, I said there is no incentive. Different meanings. There is a benefit, but no incentive to do it.
I find it odd you choose to split hairs and ignore the meat and potatoes since I think a logical mind coming in and reading this is not going to think the context was really altered. But to each their own.
I will stick with the topic that it is good tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
Manipulating what someone said is a mistake that can lead to false claims. I prefer to correct the mistake before the it gets out of control. Like you said, each to their own.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Pretty much this. I remember the days when as one group repaired the keep others would run around checking for anyone hiding inside (especially if some of the dead were holding release), but seems these days tactics are lacking.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Anyone whom enters sneak is undetectable
not just nightblades
and Anyone whom takes invisibility potion and stay in sneak can, as you say'
" remain undetected for as long as they want."
This.
However, the bigger issue is I rarely see players sweeping keeps and outposts after they take it or defended it. That is where the failure is. It used to be something we did pretty much every time. Now it is just take it and move on.
Tactics have been lacking overall for a long time. Even casual groups used tactics back in the day.
This has nothing to do with tactics and everything with the way the game is designed. The game has no incentive for stealth sweeping and THIS is why players do not do it. You get ap for most things, but not for sweeping. While you're sweeping a keep someone else is getting ap for repairing or taking a resource. It's a no brainer why people don't do it.
A keep gets taken, walls repaired and players either more to the next or port back to get rewards. New players port into the keep thinking it's 'safe', some go afk and get ganked. And so they should, if you don't take precautions vs a gank or a vd bomb it's on you. A keep, even walled and 'secure', is still a pvp zone and should be treated as such.
And if you're a NB who likes to gank in a keep and get tells then take it as a job well done and pat yourself on the back.
It has everything to do with tactics just as it has to do with common sense.
The problem lies in your reply. That players think there is not benefit for me so why should I bother and they just move to the next target.
You merely demonstrated my comments are correct. thx.
Don't twist my words. I didn't say there is no benefit, I said there is no incentive. Different meanings. There is a benefit, but no incentive to do it.
I find it odd you choose to split hairs and ignore the meat and potatoes since I think a logical mind coming in and reading this is not going to think the context was really altered. But to each their own.
I will stick with the topic that it is good tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
Manipulating what someone said is a mistake that can lead to false claims. I prefer to correct the mistake before the it gets out of control. Like you said, each to their own.
No manipulation. Seem more that it is being used as a distraction.
Once again, I will stick with the topic that it is good tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭
Pretty much this. I remember the days when as one group repaired the keep others would run around checking for anyone hiding inside (especially if some of the dead were holding release), but seems these days tactics are lacking.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Anyone whom enters sneak is undetectable
not just nightblades
and Anyone whom takes invisibility potion and stay in sneak can, as you say'
" remain undetected for as long as they want."
This.
However, the bigger issue is I rarely see players sweeping keeps and outposts after they take it or defended it. That is where the failure is. It used to be something we did pretty much every time. Now it is just take it and move on.
Tactics have been lacking overall for a long time. Even casual groups used tactics back in the day.
This has nothing to do with tactics and everything with the way the game is designed. The game has no incentive for stealth sweeping and THIS is why players do not do it. You get ap for most things, but not for sweeping. While you're sweeping a keep someone else is getting ap for repairing or taking a resource. It's a no brainer why people don't do it.
A keep gets taken, walls repaired and players either more to the next or port back to get rewards. New players port into the keep thinking it's 'safe', some go afk and get ganked. And so they should, if you don't take precautions vs a gank or a vd bomb it's on you. A keep, even walled and 'secure', is still a pvp zone and should be treated as such.
And if you're a NB who likes to gank in a keep and get tells then take it as a job well done and pat yourself on the back.
It has everything to do with tactics just as it has to do with common sense.
The problem lies in your reply. That players think there is not benefit for me so why should I bother and they just move to the next target.
You merely demonstrated my comments are correct. thx.
Don't twist my words. I didn't say there is no benefit, I said there is no incentive. Different meanings. There is a benefit, but no incentive to do it.
I find it odd you choose to split hairs and ignore the meat and potatoes since I think a logical mind coming in and reading this is not going to think the context was really altered. But to each their own.
I will stick with the topic that it is good tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
Manipulating what someone said is a mistake that can lead to false claims. I prefer to correct the mistake before the it gets out of control. Like you said, each to their own.
No manipulation. Seem more that it is being used as a distraction.
Once again, I will stick with the topic that it is good tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
If you are using my words to prove a point at least do it correctly. You are misrepresenting my statement.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Pretty much this. I remember the days when as one group repaired the keep others would run around checking for anyone hiding inside (especially if some of the dead were holding release), but seems these days tactics are lacking.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Anyone whom enters sneak is undetectable
not just nightblades
and Anyone whom takes invisibility potion and stay in sneak can, as you say'
" remain undetected for as long as they want."
This.
However, the bigger issue is I rarely see players sweeping keeps and outposts after they take it or defended it. That is where the failure is. It used to be something we did pretty much every time. Now it is just take it and move on.
Tactics have been lacking overall for a long time. Even casual groups used tactics back in the day.
This has nothing to do with tactics and everything with the way the game is designed. The game has no incentive for stealth sweeping and THIS is why players do not do it. You get ap for most things, but not for sweeping. While you're sweeping a keep someone else is getting ap for repairing or taking a resource. It's a no brainer why people don't do it.
A keep gets taken, walls repaired and players either more to the next or port back to get rewards. New players port into the keep thinking it's 'safe', some go afk and get ganked. And so they should, if you don't take precautions vs a gank or a vd bomb it's on you. A keep, even walled and 'secure', is still a pvp zone and should be treated as such.
And if you're a NB who likes to gank in a keep and get tells then take it as a job well done and pat yourself on the back.
It has everything to do with tactics just as it has to do with common sense.
The problem lies in your reply. That players think there is not benefit for me so why should I bother and they just move to the next target.
You merely demonstrated my comments are correct. thx.
Don't twist my words. I didn't say there is no benefit, I said there is no incentive. Different meanings. There is a benefit, but no incentive to do it.
I find it odd you choose to split hairs and ignore the meat and potatoes since I think a logical mind coming in and reading this is not going to think the context was really altered. But to each their own.
I will stick with the topic that it is tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
Manipulating what someone said is a mistake that can lead to false claims. I prefer to correct the mistake before the it gets out of control. Like you said, each to their own.
No manipulation. Seem more that it is being used as a distraction.
Once again, I will stick with the topic that it is good tactics and good common sense to sweep the keep for stealthers.
If you are using my words to prove a point at least do it correctly. You are misrepresenting my statement.
again, splitting hairs where no reasonable person would see a significant difference. Again, clearly intended to be a distraction or you would argue the actual points.
Since it is only nonsense you wish to discuss at this point I am done arguing potato/potatoe. have a good day and feel free to carry on.Edited by idk on January 6, 2019 8:28AM0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭I am arguing the actual points by correcting you. The point is there is no incentive to sweep. NOT there is no benefit.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am arguing the actual points by correcting you. The point is there is no incentive to sweep. NOT there is no benefit.
And in the context of what you said that is potatoe, potato and nothing more. It still does not change you were wrong before. Otherwise you would not put so much focus on something so small and ignore it as you are.
I just needed to make that clear. So have fun with potatoe/potato.0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭The context of sweeping for benefit or for incentive are entirely different from one another.
A benefit is a guaranteed reward for doing a task, like repairing walls for AP as a reward. The players know that they are getting a reward.
An incentive is a a way to motivate players to do a task. If the game does not have the built in mechanics then the incentive to do that task does not guarantee a reward. The players do not know that they are getting a reward.
They are actually completely different in context. Black and white, not potato potatoe. Hopefully that makes it clear.
Hence, the common pug would rather get a benefit by capping a resource or move to a next keep for AP as a benefit rather than mindlessly running around a keep hoping to find someone. Any NB with a bit of skill would move around undetected and the pug would have wasted their time for nothing. Common sense.
edited to clarifyEdited by Sacredx on January 6, 2019 10:01AMPC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The context of sweeping for benefit or for incentive are entirely different from one another.
A benefit is a guaranteed reward for doing a task, like repairing walls for AP as a reward. The players know that they are getting a reward.
An incentive is a a way to motivate players to do a task. If the game does not have the built in mechanics then the incentive to do that task does not guarantee a reward. The players do not know that they are getting a reward.
They are actually completely different in context. Black and white, not potato potatoe. Hopefully that makes it clear.
Hence, the common pug would rather get a benefit by capping a resource or move to a next keep for AP as a benefit rather than mindlessly running around a keep hoping to find someone. Any NB with a bit of skill would move around undetected and the pug would have wasted their time for nothing. Common sense.
Only in your mind. The benefits of sweeping for stealthers is it helps ensure the keep is cleared. The incentive for sweeping for stealthers is it helps ensure the keep is cleared.
Not that I proved you falsely accused me, you are still wrong. It is a tactic and a tactic that many good leaders asked their group to do back when PvP was much more robust. OMG. lol. and it is time for me to head into the great outdoors.
Enjoy your day.0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭The context of sweeping for benefit or for incentive are entirely different from one another.
A benefit is a guaranteed reward for doing a task, like repairing walls for AP as a reward. The players know that they are getting a reward.
An incentive is a a way to motivate players to do a task. If the game does not have the built in mechanics then the incentive to do that task does not guarantee a reward. The players do not know that they are getting a reward.
They are actually completely different in context. Black and white, not potato potatoe. Hopefully that makes it clear.
Hence, the common pug would rather get a benefit by capping a resource or move to a next keep for AP as a benefit rather than mindlessly running around a keep hoping to find someone. Any NB with a bit of skill would move around undetected and the pug would have wasted their time for nothing. Common sense.
Only in your mind. The benefits of sweeping for stealthers is it helps ensure the keep is cleared. The incentive for sweeping for stealthers is it helps ensure the keep is cleared.
Not that I proved you falsely accused me, you are still wrong. It is a tactic and a tactic that many good leaders asked their group to do back when PvP was much more robust. OMG. lol. and it is time for me to head into the great outdoors.
Enjoy your day.
The only thing you have proved is that you have misrepresented my words and then tried to justify something you have no way of proving. "ensure the keep is cleared". How can you give that assurance? How can you know the the keep is cleared? How can you guarantee that the sweepers have searched 100% of the areas? There might still be NBs or a group stealthed up somewhere. Don't make wild statements that have no backing. Look at the facts, write your case and support it with actual evidence, maybe then you can be taken seriously.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The context of sweeping for benefit or for incentive are entirely different from one another.
A benefit is a guaranteed reward for doing a task, like repairing walls for AP as a reward. The players know that they are getting a reward.
An incentive is a a way to motivate players to do a task. If the game does not have the built in mechanics then the incentive to do that task does not guarantee a reward. The players do not know that they are getting a reward.
They are actually completely different in context. Black and white, not potato potatoe. Hopefully that makes it clear.
Hence, the common pug would rather get a benefit by capping a resource or move to a next keep for AP as a benefit rather than mindlessly running around a keep hoping to find someone. Any NB with a bit of skill would move around undetected and the pug would have wasted their time for nothing. Common sense.
Only in your mind. The benefits of sweeping for stealthers is it helps ensure the keep is cleared. The incentive for sweeping for stealthers is it helps ensure the keep is cleared.
Not that I proved you falsely accused me, you are still wrong. It is a tactic and a tactic that many good leaders asked their group to do back when PvP was much more robust. OMG. lol. and it is time for me to head into the great outdoors.
Enjoy your day.
The only thing you have proved is that you have misrepresented my words and then tried to justify something you have no way of proving. "ensure the keep is cleared". How can you give that assurance? How can you know the the keep is cleared? How can you guarantee that the sweepers have searched 100% of the areas? There might still be NBs or a group stealthed up somewhere. Don't make wild statements that have no backing. Look at the facts, write your case and support it with actual evidence, maybe then you can be taken seriously.
The only thing you have is falsely accuse of misrepresenting what you said in a manner that defies all logic. LMAO it is so funny because you did not prove jack. Only that I used a different word.
I had to point out how wrong you were to get you back on the actual subject. Now you have to go to an extreme about being 100% certain (you used the word guaranteed, I have not taken that comment out of context) to try to discredit even trying to find stealthers.
Well, the laziness so called tactics have come to is the reason this thread was created. So people can call them cheating NBs because they could not be 100% but that does not make it true. It just makes it clear they do not cannot be bothered taking that extra step and few extra minutes.Edited by idk on January 6, 2019 10:53AM0
