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Scrolls, Emperor and PVP ballance
Didgerion
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It is funny to see so much effort put into making pvp balanced while there are still in-game stats modifiers that totally breaks it.
Yes as the title suggests it those modifiers are bonuses we get from owning the enemies' scrolls and having an emperor.
I think that those modifiers need to go.
Also those modifiers usually help the wining faction...why making the wining faction even stronger?
I think that PVP design team needs to come with new ideas to give players reason to conquer the scroll without scrolls giving bonuses.
After that, PVP combat team can start balancing PVP.
As of now there is no point to balance PVP if such stat modifiers exists.
Good luck and happy thinking!
Yes as the title suggests it those modifiers are bonuses we get from owning the enemies' scrolls and having an emperor.
I think that those modifiers need to go.
Also those modifiers usually help the wining faction...why making the wining faction even stronger?
I think that PVP design team needs to come with new ideas to give players reason to conquer the scroll without scrolls giving bonuses.
After that, PVP combat team can start balancing PVP.
As of now there is no point to balance PVP if such stat modifiers exists.
Good luck and happy thinking!
2
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Papachico✭✭✭✭Let me sum it up for you. Let's say an alliance has the whole map + scroll their benefits would be:
- +9% crit
-+5% wep or spell damage
-+5% spell + phys resis
+ with emperor depending on class around +2k HP
Sure those are nice buffs but i.m.o. they do not totally break class balance as you state. And in a perfect world the winning faction should be focused by two factions (instead of 1 or attacking one with another one), so therefore I can understand the logic of buffing the alliance with the most keeps/scrolls held. Also incentive wise it makes sense.3 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭When you min max your character everything adds up.
Having 5% increased resistance and 5% increased damage is a big buff. Especially in the current high burst/high resistance meta.
Sometimes I'm wearing Slimecraw monster set for extra 8% damage it provides.
Basically scrolls give more powerful stats than a monster set...it is basically as running with 2 monster sets on you, how can this not be powerful?1 -
Ruckly✭✭✭✭The scrolls give 5% increased weapon/spell damage. Slimecraw gives 8% increased damage which is spell damage + magicka or weapon damage + stamina. The 5% increase to resists would give 1.5k extra resist if you have 30k to begin with. To get that 5% your faction would need a scroll from both factions. If your faction has a scroll from both factions both factions are going to throw 80% of what they have at yours to get them back. And there are different ways they can go about it. They can take the scroll keep or they can take every keep that isn't a scroll keep. The end result is often both gates keep controlled by the enemy and logistics lines broken.0
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eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let me sum it up for you. Let's say an alliance has the whole map + scroll their benefits would be:
- +9% crit
-+5% wep or spell damage
-+5% spell + phys resis
+ with emperor depending on class around +2k HP
Sure those are nice buffs but i.m.o. they do not totally break class balance as you state. And in a perfect world the winning faction should be focused by two factions (instead of 1 or attacking one with another one), so therefore I can understand the logic of buffing the alliance with the most keeps/scrolls held. Also incentive wise it makes sense.
It actually makes a huge difference especially when you are playing small scale. And the difference is more every update. I mean one faction already has the emp itself which should be, but not always is, OP AF. And the health buff is the biggest advantage right now imo.
People get more HP every update. I think they should just give the players alliance with emp some kind AP and tel var gain. Or even something else. Just get rid of the alliance AP buff. But i dont think this really matters to most people, especially people who dont solo/small scale.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me sum it up for you. Let's say an alliance has the whole map + scroll their benefits would be:
- +9% crit
-+5% wep or spell damage
-+5% spell + phys resis
+ with emperor depending on class around +2k HP
Sure those are nice buffs but i.m.o. they do not totally break class balance as you state. And in a perfect world the winning faction should be focused by two factions (instead of 1 or attacking one with another one), so therefore I can understand the logic of buffing the alliance with the most keeps/scrolls held. Also incentive wise it makes sense.
This sums up the buffs well. I think it is good that a team gets a buff for acquiring. The way some of the buffs are setup it creates an incentive to aquire keeps, et al, in a certain groupings such as home keeps first.
For almost 5 years we have been dealing with these buffs and they seem to be far from what ills Cyrodiil.
BTW, those buffs used to translate into PvE which actually created an actual issue, but that is a different story and fortunately those days are over.
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Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me sum it up for you. Let's say an alliance has the whole map + scroll their benefits would be:
- +9% crit
-+5% wep or spell damage
-+5% spell + phys resis
+ with emperor depending on class around +2k HP
Sure those are nice buffs but i.m.o. they do not totally break class balance as you state. And in a perfect world the winning faction should be focused by two factions (instead of 1 or attacking one with another one), so therefore I can understand the logic of buffing the alliance with the most keeps/scrolls held. Also incentive wise it makes sense.
This sums up the buffs well. I think it is good that a team gets a buff for acquiring. The way some of the buffs are setup it creates an incentive to aquire keeps, et al, in a certain groupings such as home keeps first.
For almost 5 years we have been dealing with these buffs and they seem to be far from what ills Cyrodiil.
BTW, those buffs used to translate into PvE which actually created an actual issue, but that is a different story and fortunately those days are over.
If the buffs were a problem in PVE, I don't see why they are not a problem in PVP.
Yes and for the 5 years we did not get a balanced PVP. I'm sure that the campaign bonus is not the main reason of it, but it is surely a reason to make balancing analysis harder.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me sum it up for you. Let's say an alliance has the whole map + scroll their benefits would be:
- +9% crit
-+5% wep or spell damage
-+5% spell + phys resis
+ with emperor depending on class around +2k HP
Sure those are nice buffs but i.m.o. they do not totally break class balance as you state. And in a perfect world the winning faction should be focused by two factions (instead of 1 or attacking one with another one), so therefore I can understand the logic of buffing the alliance with the most keeps/scrolls held. Also incentive wise it makes sense.
This sums up the buffs well. I think it is good that a team gets a buff for acquiring. The way some of the buffs are setup it creates an incentive to aquire keeps, et al, in a certain groupings such as home keeps first.
For almost 5 years we have been dealing with these buffs and they seem to be far from what ills Cyrodiil.
BTW, those buffs used to translate into PvE which actually created an actual issue, but that is a different story and fortunately those days are over.
If the buffs were a problem in PVE, I don't see why they are not a problem in PVP.
Yes and for the 5 years we did not get a balanced PVP. I'm sure that the campaign bonus is not the main reason of it, but it is surely a reason to make balancing analysis harder.
You misunderstand. The buffs themselves were not an issue in PvE itself. It’s how having them still affect our characters in PvE had detrimental implications in PvP.
Each alliance had their own campaign to keep the buffs. For the most part this was respected. We just had the real PvP campaign set as our guest since those of us that actually enjoyed PvP wanted a bust campaign but we also wanted the buffs when doing competitive trial runs for obvious reasons.
I think Zos made it so our campaign buffs did not affect us when in a different campaign but we were more interested in PvP action so that was pess of a concern.0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭The scrolls give 5% increased weapon/spell damage. Slimecraw gives 8% increased damage which is spell damage + magicka or weapon damage + stamina. The 5% increase to resists would give 1.5k extra resist if you have 30k to begin with. To get that 5% your faction would need a scroll from both factions. If your faction has a scroll from both factions both factions are going to throw 80% of what they have at yours to get them back. And there are different ways they can go about it. They can take the scroll keep or they can take every keep that isn't a scroll keep. The end result is often both gates keep controlled by the enemy and logistics lines broken.
Well I'm not sure what campaign you are talking about.
I play non-CP campaign because I find it more balanced. And here is what happens there.
Usually one faction is more populated then others. All the faction's players focus on the same keep, creating big zerg groups. They take keeps and scrolls one at a time, getting even stronger in the process. There is no mechanics that would allow the losing factions to create an alliance and they run out of options to counter the mega-zerg quickly and log out as result. After the winning faction takes all keeps and scrolls they log out too.
The other two factions start retaking home keeps and clashes at the adjacent keeps, and there is a fun PVP for a while until one of the loosing faction take number advantage which very quickly transforms into a big zerg... And everything repeats.
It is clear that the old incentives needs adjustments, and I hope that campaign stat bonuses go away in the process of adjustment.0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me sum it up for you. Let's say an alliance has the whole map + scroll their benefits would be:
- +9% crit
-+5% wep or spell damage
-+5% spell + phys resis
+ with emperor depending on class around +2k HP
Sure those are nice buffs but i.m.o. they do not totally break class balance as you state. And in a perfect world the winning faction should be focused by two factions (instead of 1 or attacking one with another one), so therefore I can understand the logic of buffing the alliance with the most keeps/scrolls held. Also incentive wise it makes sense.
This sums up the buffs well. I think it is good that a team gets a buff for acquiring. The way some of the buffs are setup it creates an incentive to aquire keeps, et al, in a certain groupings such as home keeps first.
For almost 5 years we have been dealing with these buffs and they seem to be far from what ills Cyrodiil.
BTW, those buffs used to translate into PvE which actually created an actual issue, but that is a different story and fortunately those days are over.
If the buffs were a problem in PVE, I don't see why they are not a problem in PVP.
Yes and for the 5 years we did not get a balanced PVP. I'm sure that the campaign bonus is not the main reason of it, but it is surely a reason to make balancing analysis harder.
You misunderstand. The buffs themselves were not an issue in PvE itself. It’s how having them still affect our characters in PvE had detrimental implications in PvP.
Each alliance had their own campaign to keep the buffs. For the most part this was respected. We just had the real PvP campaign set as our guest since those of us that actually enjoyed PvP wanted a bust campaign but we also wanted the buffs when doing competitive trial runs for obvious reasons.
I think Zos made it so our campaign buffs did not affect us when in a different campaign but we were more interested in PvP action so that was pess of a concern.
Yes I remember that period. There were lots of campaigns back then and every faction could have one.
But the problem itself started from the fact that PVP had stat modifier bonuses that gave PVE groups advantages to pass the endgame content quicker.
Same problem still exists in PVP. Our content is fighting other players and our goal is to win and the ultimate goal is to win it fairly. Well those bonuses is screwing with our ultimate goal....with my ultimate goal .. just in case if someone is not sharing same goals.Edited by Didgerion on January 5, 2019 8:12PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let me sum it up for you. Let's say an alliance has the whole map + scroll their benefits would be:
- +9% crit
-+5% wep or spell damage
-+5% spell + phys resis
+ with emperor depending on class around +2k HP
Sure those are nice buffs but i.m.o. they do not totally break class balance as you state. And in a perfect world the winning faction should be focused by two factions (instead of 1 or attacking one with another one), so therefore I can understand the logic of buffing the alliance with the most keeps/scrolls held. Also incentive wise it makes sense.
This sums up the buffs well. I think it is good that a team gets a buff for acquiring. The way some of the buffs are setup it creates an incentive to aquire keeps, et al, in a certain groupings such as home keeps first.
For almost 5 years we have been dealing with these buffs and they seem to be far from what ills Cyrodiil.
BTW, those buffs used to translate into PvE which actually created an actual issue, but that is a different story and fortunately those days are over.
If the buffs were a problem in PVE, I don't see why they are not a problem in PVP.
Yes and for the 5 years we did not get a balanced PVP. I'm sure that the campaign bonus is not the main reason of it, but it is surely a reason to make balancing analysis harder.
You misunderstand. The buffs themselves were not an issue in PvE itself. It’s how having them still affect our characters in PvE had detrimental implications in PvP.
Each alliance had their own campaign to keep the buffs. For the most part this was respected. We just had the real PvP campaign set as our guest since those of us that actually enjoyed PvP wanted a bust campaign but we also wanted the buffs when doing competitive trial runs for obvious reasons.
I think Zos made it so our campaign buffs did not affect us when in a different campaign but we were more interested in PvP action so that was pess of a concern.
Yes I remember that period. There were lots of campaigns back then and every faction could have one.
But the problem itself started from the fact that PVP had stat modifier bonuses that gave PVE groups advantages to pass the endgame content quicker.
Same problem still exists in PVP. Our content is fighting other players and our goal is to win and the ultimate goal is to win it fairly. Well those bonuses is screwing with our ultimate goal....with my ultimate goal .. just in case if someone is not sharing same goals.
Yes and no.
Considering many of us spent most of our PvP hours in our guest campaign we did not get the bonuses and I can say I di did not feel a loss.
Skill trumps all. Good leadership makes the most difference. If someone is going poorly because the other alliance has more keeps that seems more of an excuse. Further, as I stated before it makes sense to had incentives to prioritize targets, home keeps first.
If you do not like not having the buffs then do something about it. PvP, turn the tides. Even though it may seem so, the forums are not a great place to PvP.
I know you will reply to this post and I am going to let you have the last word. I will agree to disagree as you have provided nothing to convince me otherwise and seems the idea is not a concern of the PvP world based on how quiet this thread is.
Enjoy the game.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭The difference is not that big. It's like having Minor Sorcery ...
And to provide some emperical evidence for that: AD on Vivec EU holds the entire map during the morning and early afternoon, and yet get's wiped and driven back to the gates every day in the afternoon and evening. If these buffs were as strong as you are suggesting then AD should never be driven back and basically eradicated every day.
Sure the buffs help, but crit luck is a far greater factor in who wins and who loses than 5% spell damage.1