Simply fact is Dragon Breaks are BS you lose all your points for being a lore rich game if none of the lore in books happened or matters in the next game. People keep pointing to Daggerfall as proof that Dragon Breaks are completely canon but if you have played the Elder Scrolls from game one like me, you would know that Arena the first game was made an Open World RPG. After it was first made to be an Arena still fighting game.

The "Elder Scroll" part was not even in the original game till they needed a more RPG sounding name. After they made the cover art. Daggerfall was the first game made with the full intent to be a RPG and after that it was set that all big quest lines happened. In Morrowind the main quest and the big side quest are all canon no matter if YOU did it or not.

You're not game breaking bring the good and bad guy if YOU choose to join the Dark Brotherhood YOU kill the Emperor if YOU don't join someone else is named Listener and the Emperor still dies. You can say the game has lore if when a book is funny and popular it's moved a thousand years in the past. Hermorh Mora (I know it's spelled wrong) always had books from every point in time it's said in every game he is in. You know what those books never made it to the game if the are from the future. Daggerfall and Skyrim both have Dragon Breaks with no books from the future.

You can't say one of three Dragon Breaks can change the land, people and the lore of whole countries if it don't happen the other two times. It's not a cop out it's a poorly written game. The Lusty Argonian Maid is a very popular book but they should have left it where it was made. No Elder Scroll games can be filled with lore or history if that history is completely different in every game. You can't say American was born in 1776 and do a prequel in 1600 you can like magic the changes to the land that was made AFTER the country was made. That's like walking the streets of New York in 1400 that's completely nonsense.

The way I see it...

Real world history is a mess. Not only is it incomplete and full of big holes and contradictions and so forth, but it's also been warped by time, and politics, and faith, and language.

For example, I saw someone say something about a debate as to whether Tiber Septim was a Breton or Nord... And I was thinking, wow, this sounds an awful lot like how some people think Jesus was a white guy.

To me, our little period of time represents that in an abstract fashion; "What did the Vestige look like?"

"He was tall. Biggest orc I've ever seen."
"He? The Vestige was woman!"
"And an Argonian!"

Because history mixes things up and people experience things differently and stories get told and re-told and altered and sometimes they are just lies. In the future of Tamriel, there will be a million different accounts of what happened during this time period, and they'll all be at least partially right... Except the lies. Those will just be lies.

I just have to say that I love lore conversations, they should happen more on the forums.

No matter what they do with the events of ESO going forward in the single player games, like someone mentioned before, all they have to do to acknowledge the events of ESO is with The Chronicles of the Five Companions book series. Maybe throw in a spell or two from some classes that were a "rediscovered" part of some lost magic on Nirn. (and that's a huge maybe). I'd be happy if they just threw in TES 6 the book mentioned and an Easter Egg about ESO.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

ESO isn't "outside the lore". It takes place during the interregnum which itself is a period of time within the ES universe. And the interregnum is a period of time where much of what happened ends up being lost to time.

This gives ZOS breathing room to craft the game and story. And to the same point, ZOS didn't go nuts and just add whatever they wanted to ESO. The Dwemer haven't magically appeared and been written into ESO as an example. Even though someone could argue that they can simply be explained away again outside of ESO using the interregnum.

ZOS skillfully crafted a Vvardenfell that is 700 years prior to the one in Morrowind (2002) and chronologically makes sense. Yeah, nothing is perfect and people can nitpick here and there but ZOS isn't just going around doing whatever it wants without regard to ES lore and tradition.

I don't think Sir Lawrence Schick is paid by Bethesda and ZOS to come into the office and just do his Vivec impression eight hours a day and then go home. He's there to keep ESO in its place in the Elder Scrolls timeline.

These are the typed words of Scipio ok.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Wait, this is still an issue people are throwing fits about?

The entire reason the time period for the game was chosen in this time period was because this -was- the undoccumented part of history. It was a blank slate, the only place the writers could have full control over in Tamrielic history. After tiber septim comes, what few records of this time period -burn-.

Get a grip people.

This is my favorite part of all of this Talo was a God who's Godhood was proven by events like changing the land from a jungle to what we experienced in oblivion. This single event was a big piece of showing he has the power of a God.

ESO however take nearly all of the proof that Talo was a God. Instead of seeing the hell Cyrodiil was we just this instant nostalgia. You can't make a prequel and rewrite the past. So if you play ESO you get proof that Talo was a false God afterall.

I've a historical (no Dragon Break, non CHIM) explanation for that as well.
Deforestation.

Prior to the Three Banners War, Cyrodiil was heavily forested (even a jungle I guess). But when the Empire collapse and armies from all across the land laid siege to the imperial city, all of that was torn down; burned it for fuel, used it to build siegeworks or forts, just absolutely scoured the region of resources (that an awful lot of lumber mills and mines in one place, don't ya think? )

After the war subsided and the Empire was once again unified, this transformation from jungle to what it is in Oblivion was mythologized as an act of Talos by later generations.

This is actually pretty insightful to the lore Bethesda has put up. Thanks! Something to keep in mind with.

Koensol wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

I HATE the "Dragon Break" excuse (the CHIM excuse too when used to explain inconsistencies).

It's a lazy cop-out, a poor narrative device, a gimmick equivalent to "coma theories" and "it was all just a dream" when it comes to bad storytelling.

I'll look for any other explanation, as absurd as it is, before accepting a Dragon Break as an explanation. This sort of cop-out irks me to no end.

The only other explanation(which i did not include here because I don't like it) is the events of ESO only occur in the Vestige's Mind because he was driven insane by the Mad God Sheogorath.(Atronach mounts looking like wolves, Sprigans looking like horses, riding around on a Dwemer spider are all things only insane people would see)

The Vestige spends far too much time with Sheogorth in ESO via the Mage's Guild line, Sheo randomly pops up in that town in Grahtwood.....no one spends that much time around Sheo, and enters the Isles as many times as he does without being driven mad....even the Shezzarine in Oblivion is eventually driven insane by Sheogorath even before he dips the Staff into the Font of Maddness....

That explanation is not even possibly right, because even before ESO launched, there were hints in the lore, pointing towards this period of war and unrest. Here is a link to a book that was in the original TES3 Morrowind: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Odral's_History_of_the_Empire_1

"Before the rule of Tiber Septim, all Tamriel was in chaos. The poet Tracizis called that period of continuous unrest "days and nights of blood and venom." The kings were a petty lot of grasping tyrants, who fought Tiber's attempts to bring order to the land."

The above paragraph directly points towards the events in ESO, specifically the alliance war. "Days and nights of blood and venom" is the key phrase here. This is further backed up by Malukah's song for ESO, where she sings about this. Video linked below.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zwp8UxIY_iM

So no, the 'sheogorath made vestige insane' argument is invalid if you ask me. I wouldn't vouch for a dragon break either, though because it is as unoriginal as anything and it takes away from the mysteriousness of a previous few dragonbreaks. It should be a highly rare occurence and not a standard way to explain contradicting accounts. I would personally leave these contradictions it open to discussion. I mean why do we always need everything 100% chewed out in black and white. The best lore keeps you constantly guessing and wondering. Tiber Septims heritage and the battle of red mountain are two good examples.

I liked her when she sang the Dovahkin song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z9TdDCWN7g

ezio45 wrote: »

wait what are ppl upset over?

what lore did they break?

Most of the game lore honestly The Elder Scrolls game can’t make a good series just good stories. None of the games make sense when you look at the one or ones before it.

JJBoomer wrote: »

You do know that ESO has been declared officially canon. That's all there is to it. It's fact. You can dispute facts all you want, that doesn't change them.

So that pretty much renders the dragon break theory invalid at this point. But if you hate the game so much that you need to continuously try to explain it's existence so that you can feel okay with the game, maybe don't play it?

Also TES6, is still only in conceptual stages of development. It doesn't even exist yet. And I hope it does incorporate ESO and even makes references.

ESO changes so much that it really should be “forgotten” for the next solo game. Black Marsh deathly lands that’s unforgiving, explored by millions. Orc homeland not Convention armies allowed in, millions of Redguard and Bretons. Outsiders are not allowed in Summerset few none Altmer have seen it millions of players go.

You can’t set up this big world and then rewrite it every time you make a new game.

If ESO was just a massive Dragonbreak it'd be kinda boring. Then again, I find Dragonbreaks in general to be boring.

Also why is everyone going on about a Dragonbreak even though there is just a fancy tablet with runic junk on it? We don't even know if that involves a Dragonbreak, it could also be just symbolic instead of metaphysical. I'd say we wait until the expansion comes out before we're all either angered, excited or disappointed. I'm neutral about the whole ordeal and I'm only excited for it because Abnur Tharn might be coming back.

P.S.
Never ever cite anything about Micheal Kirkbride when talking about lore. That's how you lose the attention of people.

Smitch_59 wrote: »

IMHO this discussion is a perfect example of why they should never have done an Elder Scrolls MMO in the first place. Far too many stupid inconsistencies, not the least of which is having thousands of vestiges getting in each other's way doing the same quests.

So in my world, ESO is just a bad dream. I hope I live long enough for TES6 to arrive, so I can awaken from my nightmare.

Skyrim is the worst recent offender of TES lore if you ask me. Battlespire being the worst offender overall.