Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Why does ZOS refuse to listen and not even talk with it's community?
Geroken777
✭✭✭✭✭
Last time we've had ESO Live was 2 months ago.
No response from Devs with any constructive comments for ages.
More and more ridiculous grind that the community has been opposing too since the beginning,
I remember Gina quoting that one of their goals is to improve their communication last year, let me find the quote.
Are we really getting the silent treatment again? Why can't you guys just learn from your previous mistakes
3 pages of forum posts - only 3 replies, which are literally about shutting down posts and nothing else!
Edited by Geroken777 on January 4, 2019 3:21PM No response from Devs with any constructive comments for ages.
More and more ridiculous grind that the community has been opposing too since the beginning,
I remember Gina quoting that one of their goals is to improve their communication last year, let me find the quote.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.
Are we really getting the silent treatment again? Why can't you guys just learn from your previous mistakes
3 pages of forum posts - only 3 replies, which are literally about shutting down posts and nothing else!
The self-righteous shall choke on their sanctimony.
43
-
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because Community Managers are supposed to *checks notes* not engage with the community.18 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.
They don't have an excuse for why they don't, they just don't. They're sorry though, please stay on the line, your call is very important to them.30 -
rafaelcsmaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sandman929 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.
They don't have an excuse for why they don't, they just don't. They're sorry though, please stay on the line, your call is very important to them.
Where is the link to this post by Gina?0 -
Geroken777✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.
They don't have an excuse for why they don't, they just don't. They're sorry though, please stay on the line, your call is very important to them.
That's the quote i was looking for.The self-righteous shall choke on their sanctimony.0 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taking care of what they are in charge of costs money. Careless behaviour saves money. At least they think this.
Look at Fallout 76. Fraud allows a higher margin, until your [removed profanity] catches fire.Edited by ZOS_JesC on January 6, 2019 11:12PM4 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Sandman929 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.
They don't have an excuse for why they don't, they just don't. They're sorry though, please stay on the line, your call is very important to them.
Where is the link to this post by Gina?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5611088#Comment_56110880 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sandman929 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.
They don't have an excuse for why they don't, they just don't. They're sorry though, please stay on the line, your call is very important to them.
no ETA2 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's quite common in the game industry for companies to not speak to customers. There are quite a few reasons for this. Larger corporate type companies often keep quiet to make sure they don't open themselves up to lawsuits, or say anything that might hurt stock prices.
Smaller game studios and indie developers sometimes are more open. But being open can also become an issue. Imagine a studio telling it's customers we're adding this feature in, but then after working on it, realizing the feature can't be done or isn't fun so it gets cut. Then the customers get mad and call the developers liars.
I work at a smaller studio, and we've been more open to our customers in the past and the above scenario has happened quite often. So most studios just keep quiet instead rather than risk more backlash.
14 -
Zypheran✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To be fair, I believe its a case of "give an inch and people will take a mile"! I know these next words are not going to be well received by many of my fellow community members but... people want everything and they want it yesterday!
In many games you just play what you get with little or no opportunity to communicate with developers. I think that the level of communication we do get from ZOS leads to an expectation that they answer ever single whine or post that gets put up. Sometimes its better to stay quiet rather than raise expectations of a possible full dialogue on these issues.
That said, I agree that ZOS could do better at communication. ZOS have acknowledged this themselves. But I think saying things like "they refuse to listen" is not fair. I genuinely believe ZOS do listen but they are just a little slow when it comes to feedback. Also, I believe them when they say that they are working on improving this. Recent acknowledgment posts from some of the dev team suggests that they are trying so I for one am willing to give them some time.
All my housing builds are available on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf3oJ_cxuu01HmWZJZ6KK6g?view_as=subscriber
I am happy to share the EHT save files for most of my builds.18 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's quite common in the game industry for companies to not speak to customers. There are quite a few reasons for this. Larger corporate type companies often keep quiet to make sure they don't open themselves up to lawsuits, or say anything that might hurt stock prices.
Smaller game studios and indie developers sometimes are more open. But being open can also become an issue. Imagine a studio telling it's customers we're adding this feature in, but then after working on it, realizing the feature can't be done or isn't fun so it gets cut. Then the customers get mad and call the developers liars.
I work at a smaller studio, and we've been more open to our customers in the past and the above scenario has happened quite often. So most studios just keep quiet instead rather than risk more backlash.
Being tight lipped about development is one thing. Bug reports in the bug report forum that don't even get so much as a "thank you, we've actually read this and are currently awake" for over a year shows pure ineptitude. No comment (except those asking for even greater civility) on issues that are repeatedly discussed by the community in multiple, high traffic, threads shows apathy.
On top of all that, commenting that they're aware of their poor communication and then doing absolutely nothing to communicate better? I don't even know what that is, apart from just plain vanilla bovine droppings.17 -
Geroken777✭✭✭✭✭To be fair, I believe its a case of "give an inch and people will take a mile"! I know these next words are not going to be well received by many of my fellow community members but... people want everything and they want it yesterday!
In many games you just play what you get with little or no opportunity to communicate with developers. I think that the level of communication we do get from ZOS leads to an expectation that they answer ever single whine or post that gets put up. Sometimes its better to stay quiet rather than raise expectations of a possible full dialogue on these issues.
That said, I agree that ZOS could do better at communication. ZOS have acknowledged this themselves. But I think saying things like "they refuse to listen" is not fair. I genuinely believe ZOS do listen but they are just a little slow when it comes to feedback. Also, I believe them when they say that they are working on improving this. Recent acknowledgment posts from some of the dev team suggests that they are trying so I for one am willing to give them some time.
I am sorry but I cannot agree with this, take a look at the recent community backlash with the frozen mount that cost ONLY 600 gems. People already said, since the beginning of the introduction of crown crates, that people do not want anything like it, but yet, they just keep adding fuel to the fire. Do you remember when they tried to make money off special motif in crown crates?Edited by Geroken777 on January 4, 2019 3:10PMThe self-righteous shall choke on their sanctimony.6 -
valeriiya✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be fair, I believe its a case of "give an inch and people will take a mile"! I know these next words are not going to be well received by many of my fellow community members but... people want everything and they want it yesterday!
In many games you just play what you get with little or no opportunity to communicate with developers. I think that the level of communication we do get from ZOS leads to an expectation that they answer ever single whine or post that gets put up. Sometimes its better to stay quiet rather than raise expectations of a possible full dialogue on these issues.
That said, I agree that ZOS could do better at communication. ZOS have acknowledged this themselves. But I think saying things like "they refuse to listen" is not fair. I genuinely believe ZOS do listen but they are just a little slow when it comes to feedback. Also, I believe them when they say that they are working on improving this. Recent acknowledgment posts from some of the dev team suggests that they are trying so I for one am willing to give them some time.
@Zypheran they are refusing to listen by allowing bugs to go on for almost a year with no clear communication or plan to address it. It's the equivalent of the kid that puts their fingers in their ears and sings "lalalalalala" to not listen. What they do listen to is $ and that is all they care about.7 -
Kagukan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think they listen but likely don't respond as much as we would like to see because this is a rough crowd. For example. Someone from ZOS made a joke and was shredded for it. If I were a ZOS employee I would avoid engaging this crowd as much as possible also.3 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think they listen but likely don't respond as much as we would like to see because this is a rough crowd. For example. Someone from ZOS made a joke and was shredded for it. If I were a ZOS employee I would avoid engaging this crowd as much as possible also.
Unless, ya know...your job was the Community Manager.
There are certain aspects of my job that I don't particularly enjoy either, but I still do them because it is my job and I am therefore expected to fulfill those responsibilities.16 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because if they communicate about what's coming up, they can't work you for that extra dime (destroy those extra feathers, cause we want you to have to buy them later, gift crown store items or you can't have this exclusive pet, even though we're gonna sell it outright later, etc.)
Silence = profit.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Smaller game studios and indie developers sometimes are more open. But being open can also become an issue. Imagine a studio telling it's customers we're adding this feature in, but then after working on it, realizing the feature can't be done or isn't fun so it gets cut. Then the customers get mad and call the developers liars.
I work at a smaller studio, and we've been more open to our customers in the past and the above scenario has happened quite often. So most studios just keep quiet instead rather than risk more backlash.
Oh, I agree that this happens, and many times as stated. The main fallacy in the top paragraph I quoted is that properly communicating changes to the players, and being open and timely in those communications, significantly reduces the appearance of hiding the change that results in being called liars. Yes, people will get disappointed and mad. People with no understanding of software and game development might call them liars, but if the communication channel is there, and properly used, it won't be the prevailing attitude.
ZOS already had this happen. They could have handled it much better. I think that, over time, ZOS decided to retreat rather than fix things.
It does not have to be that way, though. There are people out there who can teach ZOS how to properly manage, and communicate, with the customers in a way that benefits the studio and the customers. They found one to guide them into Loot Boxes, so I know they are not afraid to hire consultants.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Because they have #esofam to sugercoat everything spreading only great things about the game. And truth be told the target audience for ZOS includes mostly roleplayers and casuals and they do not really care about bugs/balance/performance issues.Playing since January 23, 20163 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well if you have communication problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 emails and am only allowed to respond to 1.
I hope no one takes offence at my music reference and causes me to have to write a public apology.8 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭On presentation they always say that we are very important. Yeah sure, to fill pockets.
Events failure, crown store overcare and unwanted nerfs (like cast shield on pts) clearly show that players (with massive feedback) know and care more about the game than devs.Edited by gepe87 on January 4, 2019 3:50PMGepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
valeriiya✭✭✭✭✭
✭I thought @ZOS_GinaBruno was still on vaction because there are 10 different threads going about PvP performance and she hasnt posted in any of them but I just saw her pop up in one regarding something from Crown Store, what a surprise!!
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.4 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gina just commented on a visual bug thread for a Crown Store costume, so hopefully she comments on one of the many performance related threads or even this one.1 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Must be hitting their targets in earnings. Crown store sales and subscriptions probably doing better than expected.0 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »Smaller game studios and indie developers sometimes are more open. But being open can also become an issue. Imagine a studio telling it's customers we're adding this feature in, but then after working on it, realizing the feature can't be done or isn't fun so it gets cut. Then the customers get mad and call the developers liars.
I work at a smaller studio, and we've been more open to our customers in the past and the above scenario has happened quite often. So most studios just keep quiet instead rather than risk more backlash.
Oh, I agree that this happens, and many times as stated. The main fallacy in the top paragraph I quoted is that properly communicating changes to the players, and being open and timely in those communications, significantly reduces the appearance of hiding the change that results in being called liars. Yes, people will get disappointed and mad. People with no understanding of software and game development might call them liars, but if the communication channel is there, and properly used, it won't be the prevailing attitude.
ZOS already had this happen. They could have handled it much better. I think that, over time, ZOS decided to retreat rather than fix things.
It does not have to be that way, though. There are people out there who can teach ZOS how to properly manage, and communicate, with the customers in a way that benefits the studio and the customers. They found one to guide them into Loot Boxes, so I know they are not afraid to hire consultants.
Btw, I want to clarify. I believe being open and honest is the much better scenario in the long run. But what I believe and managers/business people believe aren't the same thing.
Most developers I know (programmers, artists, etc) wish the business people would be more open and honest, because in the end it's those developers that get blamed for everything.
A good example to me is the developers of Astroneer, System Era. They do a vlog where they talk about what they are doing with the game, etc. The feedback from the public is mostly positive and the game has positive reviews. I think that communication is a big reason they have that positive feedback.
Being more open about the development also allows people who are ignorant about how development works have the opportunity to learn the details and have a better understanding of how things work. That would lead to less negativity overall.0 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭
Not sure where he thinks people are saying the game is dead tbh ? At least I haven’t really seen people say that since before console launch and before one tamriel..
Cyrodiil is sure dead compared to before but I don’t know why he would make a tweet like that in 2018 for the general game.Edited by Revokus on January 4, 2019 4:09PMPlaying since January 23, 20160 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not sure where he thinks people are saying the game is dead tbh ? At least I haven’t really seen people say that since before console launch and before one tamriel..
Cyrodiil is sure dead compared to before but I don’t know why he would make a tweet like that in 2018 for the general game.
Maybe he's just trying to find something to put a positive spin on, in a passive aggressive way. Grasping at straws 101.Edited by Jaraal on January 4, 2019 4:16PM1 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[removed quote]
Yeapers, 76 was a middle finger.
Though with eso they have our money and they can get more new people into eso faster now with the game almost always on sale. So why should they care? I wish they would but where is the motivation for them to do anything. It is a sad truth but the truth none-the-less. The new dlcs are all they care about working on and the constant run of events, smh.
I am sure most of them are playing R2R2
Edited by ZOS_JesC on January 6, 2019 11:15PM0
This discussion has been closed.