How would you change the champion system?

Jeremy · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

If you could alter champion system then what would you do?

Maybe have it focus on increasing the effectiveness of specific abilities and passives instead of general increases to broad areas of performance.

That might would give it more options, variety, and longevity - as well as making it a more interesting system with more combinations.

TheHsN · December 2018

Remove them all...

Buff skills and passive and race passives...

DONE....

jainiadral · December 2018

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

The only issue I have with the system is that they increase it every three months. When I started back in September last year, it was at 660. Now it's at 810. I'm currently at 710. But it just feels like a never ending marathon to get to max. Set a cap and be done with it.

Totally agree. I think it was at 700-something when I started. 720, I think? That would be manageable. 810-- ugh. It's never happening at this rate.

Right now I'm at 540. I average about 1.5 CP per day. Playing every day, and assuming that there's not that much change in the XP required per level (I know, dumb assumption

), it will take me 180 days to hit 810. By then, the cap will have increased another 60 points... which will take about another what, 2-5 months of daily play to hit? And then there will be another 30-60 CP added. It's ridiculous. If you're a new player, you're never going to catch up.

Knowing my general record of burning out on MMOs after 6-8 months... I'm actually doing pretty well here. Most players don't play daily for years at a time. If you're new-ish, burn out and take a break, you're always going to be chasing the carrot.

Maryal wrote: »

Leave it as is.

However ....

Players that are not at the CP cap should be awarded a lump sum amount of CP points (sliding scale).

Players who have reached level 50 and are:
under 100 CP points get 600 CP points;

under 200 CP points get 500 CP points

under 300 CP points get 400 CP points

under 400 CP points get 300 CP points

under 500 CP points get 200 CP points

under 600 CP points get 100 CP points

700 CP to current CP max get 50 CP points

There is a catch to this, however. To qualify for the lump sum of CP points you have to have completed Cadwell's gold.

You can only qualify for the lump sum amount 1x per account.

This should help level the playing field regarding CP ... at least for the next couple of years.

I like this. This would be a great catch-up mechanic for newer players and provide them a good foundation for some of the demands of the newer expansions.

Kitty_Quietly · December 2018

SugaComa wrote: »

Every 10 levels you unlock a star in the constellation that has always on passives

But they're not game breaking ones ...
Mining expert for increased nodes
Grocery expert for increased ingredients

Things that don't give power creeps but reward you in different ways that ways that are benefit to your character though

Awesome! Yeah, that’s what I’d like too. Just didn’t know how more would come into play, until you mentioned more unlocks. Still unsure if every ten is too many, but more than now is something I’d want, for sure.

Jameliel · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Personally I would remove it entirely, as I see it as a the cause of a lot of problems I have with how the game has evolved.

On a less drastic change I would make it more akin to SWTOR's legacy system, where it's about QoL options for your character/account rather than direct power increases.

At the very least I would untie attribute bonuses from the first 300 (I think) CP, and remove all the bonuses which tie directly to character power. The passives are actually more interesting as a system of unlocks to me.

Like give stamina dps more morphs?

Not really, again I don't like that the system focuses on combat power and abilities as it added an extra (and annoying) layer to game balance and progression.

For me it would be more interesting with things like the inspiration bonus, double materials chance, lower repair costs etc.
Things like this which you could get CP levels towards improving, making your characters and account more enjoyable.

I honestly wouldn't be against the CP system as it is right now if the stars you purchased didn't give any benefits and were there just to unlock the passives that exist, with more passives added. It's not a popular opinion and also not something ZOS would ever implement, just how I would rather see the system work.

I think passive idea is nice but we should not be able to have everything. There should be forks you could take that don't lead to other paths.

This is a good idea, if only zos wouldn't mess it up by making a few paths useful, and the rest random garbage like they do with armor/weapon sets.

Chelo · December 2018

People need to understand this game is an MMORPG, it's not a MOBA or a Battle Royale... In MMOs, time MATTERS. Of course someone who have 4 years playing the game, is going to be stronger than someone who has 1 week. That's the whole point of progression in MMOs...

Iskiab · December 2018

Best for the game would be to get rid of it. I’m about to hit CP600 and started the game 3 months ago so can provide some insight into this.

CPs are garbage. It does nothing but discourage newer players because they have to wait until they have more CPs so their characters are strong enough. There’s a new thread every week from people asking for dps help, when the real problem is CPs give people 3x or 4x the normal Dps.

It might be late to change it at this point as things would have to be returned around no CPs but it was a terrible idea.

jainiadral · December 2018

Chelo wrote: »

People need to understand this game is an MMORPG, it's not a MOBA or a Battle Royale... In MMOs, time MATTERS. Of course someone who have 4 years playing the game, is going to be stronger than someone who has 1 week. That's the whole point of progression in MMOs...

Any MMORPG that requires four years to max out its endgame systems is a MMORPG that's going to end up shut down long before the first player hits the finish line

Most endgame systems don't require years-- they require months. The most heinous example I can think of is SWTOR's Galactic Command. Even as a solo player who hates grinding, and who burned out multiple times trying to get to rank 300, I still managed in about five or six months. They were sucky, awful, terrible months that made me hate my main, but they did end-- eventually. The legacy system required a similar amount of time to max out, except that happened passively in leveling both mains and alts. GW2's PoF masteries took me a couple of weeks. Max leveling my first character there took a couple of months, I think, right about the time HoT was released.

This game's leveling process is extremely long by comparison.

WhipSmartMcoy · December 2018

They should make the Cp trees like the sphere grid from FFX

SkysOutThizeOut · December 2018

Don’t change

Bowser · December 2018

1) Remove the constellation point system.
2) Spread most of the constellation point benefits across existing skill point abilities and passives.
3) Deflate the number of champion points (810CP => 81CP)
4) Grant 1 account wide skill point per champion point.

CrimsonGTX · December 2018

Probably make it more role base. If your desire role is DPS then the constellations points that represent your role should only appear, same with Healers and Tanks. Maybe this way they can expand the constellation system with new perks for each role. This may also help people who like to play stamina race as a magicka class and in vice versa. If ZOS want hybrids builds to be possible then this idea won't work, but as it stands now hybrid builds don't work much and Zos likes separating skills such as Path of Darkness/Strife.

This isn't a thought-out idea but it is the only thing I thought about that could make more sense than people saying "remove it".

jainiadral wrote: »

Any MMORPG that requires four years to max out its endgame systems is a MMORPG that's going to end up shut down long before the first player hits the finish line

Most endgame systems don't require years-- they require months. The most heinous example I can think of is SWTOR's Galactic Command. Even as a solo player who hates grinding, and who burned out multiple times trying to get to rank 300, I still managed in about five or six months. They were sucky, awful, terrible months that made me hate my main, but they did end-- eventually. The legacy system required a similar amount of time to max out, except that happened passively in leveling both mains and alts. GW2's PoF masteries took me a couple of weeks. Max leveling my first character there took a couple of months, I think, right about the time HoT was released.

This game's leveling process is extremely long by comparison.

BDO would like to say hello lol, That game is a journey to reach "end-game". I don't mind and like it but the Devs are meh and the lack of PvE content stops it from reaching it's full potential imo. ESO leveling process is not long to me, it's overall a VERY casual friendly and easy to get into to do end-game content...whether that's PvE or PvP.

Morgul667 · December 2018

For once i hope ZOS does not listen

Keep the cp, power creep will always exist with new dlc gears locked behind paywalls. At least cp are free

jainiadral · December 2018

BDO would like to say hello lol, That game is a journey to reach "end-game". I don't mind and like it but the Devs are meh and the lack of PvE content stops it from reaching it's full potential imo. ESO leveling process is not long to me, it's overall a VERY casual friendly and easy to get into to do end-game content...whether that's PvE or PvP.

Sorry for the funky formatting-- am on my tablet.

Maybe I should have said western MMORPGs. Players expect that kind of pain from Korean grinders.

Anyway, for the most part I like the CP system. My two problems are the escalating caps every couple of months and the increasing XP required to unlock higher levels as you move toward the cap. TBH, the second woukdn't be that big a deal to me if they'd just make the cap permanent.

Vahrokh · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

If you could alter champion system then what would you do?

In the only sensible way: by removing it.

Vahrokh · December 2018

CP is over anyway. By now, we are at the diminishing returns thresold.

When a new DLC comes out, all I get to do is to spend all the points on something that will increase anything by 0.01% and, with the rounding down we have on CPs, if I want to improve some of my 14% abilities I will spend most of the points just on one of them.

So, those who say we need a levelling up system... it's over. Even with the exponential, "Bitcoin-alike" mechanism of diminishing returns, we have almost at our ceiling.

Sure, a PvE player could still increase some PvP passives and similar by a visible %, but what's the point doing that?

Flame_of_Hades · December 2018

I would change the system so that you could spend the points you gained in any tree, but you would have to select 2 areas to apply points in, such as tank and damage, but then it would be balanced by your lack of regen.. these selected areas could be changed whenever you reset your cp.

Vhozek · December 2018

Rework it by removing the way it works right now and instead add a "mastery" system similar to League of Legends with stuff that allows you to do extra things based on the way you play.

Examples:
If you gain a shield, your next attack deals more damage
If you dash or teleport, you gain armor/magic penetration for 3 seconds
If you stun an enemy, you gain a massive boost in resistances for 1.5 seconds

Oberstein · December 2018

no change for that

eso_lags · December 2018

Seperate pvp and pve CP trees. This would not be as good as completely balancing pvp and pve separately, but it would be a damn good start.

Also limiting or reworking the pvp version. Im sure pve players would have some input but i dont think that CP is an issue in pve.. Anyway, something like cp trees focusing purely on things that would benefit pvp. So there would be 2 sets of champ points. And the pvp one would only activiate while you were in cyrodil or IC.. And maybe an option where you could manually change with CP system you were using for duels.

Im not saying remove all the cp skills and trees but maybe change the useless ones to something more useful for pvp. Or maybe even rework many of the skills to change some of the benefits and add different ones and maybe make other ones give less return the more you put in.

Its not a perfect idea but it might help with balance. But id also like to see it replaced with a different system. A more intricate system with a lot more options to add more creativity to builds. I would like to say i would like it removed all together, but as a solo player im not sure how i would feel about that. But removing it might be the best thing for the game, tbh.

Draxys · December 2018

Delete it?

Lord_Eomer · December 2018

Iskiab wrote: »

Best for the game would be to get rid of it. I’m about to hit CP600 and started the game 3 months ago so can provide some insight into this.

CPs are garbage. It does nothing but discourage newer players because they have to wait until they have more CPs so their characters are strong enough. There’s a new thread every week from people asking for dps help, when the real problem is CPs give people 3x or 4x the normal Dps.

It might be late to change it at this point as things would have to be returned around no CPs but it was a terrible idea.

CP for new players are encouragement to play game or else it would be simple PVE quest and that's all.

PVP is available CP and non CP so there should be no issue.

ATreeGnome · December 2018

One of the things that has always bothered me about the CP system is that it really discourages hybrid magicka-stamina builds for DPS even though there are quite a few sets that seem like they are designed specifically for hybrid DPS. Boosting both damage types takes way too much CP. So maybe instead of having one blue tree that mostly focuses on physical damage and one that focuses mostly on magic damage, there could be an AoE tree and a single target tree.

I would also like to see more things in the blue tree that are useful to tanks, like maybe something that boosts synergy effectiveness or reduces synergy cooldowns. Even boosting enchantment potency could be useful, if a bit unimaginative.

Tasear · December 2018

eso_lags wrote: »

Seperate pvp and pve CP trees. This would not be as good as completely balancing pvp and pve separately, but it would be a damn good start.

Also limiting or reworking the pvp version. Im sure pve players would have some input but i dont think that CP is an issue in pve.. Anyway, something like cp trees focusing purely on things that would benefit pvp. So there would be 2 sets of champ points. And the pvp one would only activiate while you were in cyrodil or IC.. And maybe an option where you could manually change with CP system you were using for duels.

Im not saying remove all the cp skills and trees but maybe change the useless ones to something more useful for pvp. Or maybe even rework many of the skills to change some of the benefits and add different ones and maybe make other ones give less return the more you put in.

Its not a perfect idea but it might help with balance. But id also like to see it replaced with a different system. A more intricate system with a lot more options to add more creativity to builds. I would like to say i would like it removed all together, but as a solo player im not sure how i would feel about that. But removing it might be the best thing for the game, tbh.

That's interesting but would it make it harder for people to go in between the too?

keevil111 · December 2018

Remove CP! Or use them for QoL like what has been stated already.

The power creep is real. Do we wonder why it seems like ZOS struggles to balance the game? They continually step on their own toes over and over.

Wildberryjack · December 2018

keevil111 wrote: »

Remove CP! Or use them for QoL like what has been stated already.

The power creep is real. Do we wonder why it seems like ZOS struggles to balance the game? They continually step on their own toes over and over.

It becomes a problem though with non-progression. Everyone always wants to get stronger and if there is no way to do that then it sucks a lot of fun out of games, like why bother if all we're going to end up doing is spinning our wheels at a certain point. Most MMOs just add levels but that can get a bit out of hand, look at WoW now with 120 levels!

Trying to find a way to have the player feel like they are always getting stronger, progressing, can be very tricky. The CP system is a good way but it's so open ended. What they could do instead, other than actually adding maybe 10 levels to our toons, I don't know really. Even that would eventually end up right back where it is now with a power creep and no good way to fix it.

munster1404 · December 2018

tactx wrote: »

Weird... I love the cp system. It's like AA points in everquest or countless other good games that had it.

Why do people not like it? It's account wide, gives actual useful benefits, gives you something to work toward in game, etc. Someone explain why it needs changed?

I enjoy CP as it is, gives average to mediocre players a helping hand by making your character more powerful over time. And it's progression of sorts. I wouldn't know how to enjoy the game without CP, tbh. Eliminate power creep? Then how would one propose to increase the player base and incentivize new content?

BoneShatterer · December 2018

i would just remove it. also before people get on my back for sayign so...

horizontal grind, vertical grind diagonal grind circular or even spheric ubic or what ever ...SAME CONCEPT DIFFERENT NAME.
if it starts at 0 and end with a final value there is a grind no matter how you name it, no matter how you place it, no matter what color... smell ... shape or even lettering ... if there is a 0 and a value to indicate that you have reached the maximum value I T ' S A G R I N D !!!

keevil111 · December 2018

Wildberryjack wrote: »

keevil111 wrote: »

Remove CP! Or use them for QoL like what has been stated already.

The power creep is real. Do we wonder why it seems like ZOS struggles to balance the game? They continually step on their own toes over and over.

It becomes a problem though with non-progression. Everyone always wants to get stronger and if there is no way to do that then it sucks a lot of fun out of games, like why bother if all we're going to end up doing is spinning our wheels at a certain point. Most MMOs just add levels but that can get a bit out of hand, look at WoW now with 120 levels!

Trying to find a way to have the player feel like they are always getting stronger, progressing, can be very tricky. The CP system is a good way but it's so open ended. What they could do instead, other than actually adding maybe 10 levels to our toons, I don't know really. Even that would eventually end up right back where it is now with a power creep and no good way to fix it.

Good point. Kinda damned if they do, damned if they don't, i guess.

josiahva · December 2018

CrimsonGTX wrote: »

Probably make it more role base. If your desire role is DPS then the constellations points that represent your role should only appear, same with Healers and Tanks. Maybe this way they can expand the constellation system with new perks for each role. This may also help people who like to play stamina race as a magicka class and in vice versa. If ZOS want hybrids builds to be possible then this idea won't work, but as it stands now hybrid builds don't work much and Zos likes separating skills such as Path of Darkness/Strife.

This isn't a thought-out idea but it is the only thing I thought about that could make more sense than people saying "remove it".

jainiadral wrote: »

Any MMORPG that requires four years to max out its endgame systems is a MMORPG that's going to end up shut down long before the first player hits the finish line

Most endgame systems don't require years-- they require months. The most heinous example I can think of is SWTOR's Galactic Command. Even as a solo player who hates grinding, and who burned out multiple times trying to get to rank 300, I still managed in about five or six months. They were sucky, awful, terrible months that made me hate my main, but they did end-- eventually. The legacy system required a similar amount of time to max out, except that happened passively in leveling both mains and alts. GW2's PoF masteries took me a couple of weeks. Max leveling my first character there took a couple of months, I think, right about the time HoT was released.

This game's leveling process is extremely long by comparison.

BDO would like to say hello lol, That game is a journey to reach "end-game". I don't mind and like it but the Devs are meh and the lack of PvE content stops it from reaching it's full potential imo. ESO leveling process is not long to me, it's overall a VERY casual friendly and easy to get into to do end-game content...whether that's PvE or PvP.

NO! Enough pigeonholing people into certain roles...this would make the problem even worse.