Concept: Vampire Skill Line Improvements

TheInvalidUsername · December 2018

Hello everyone and welcome to the second of many of my concepts. Myself and many others feel that Vampirism is ONLY used for the passives. I aim to improve the skill line as a whole, while still keeping the beneficial skills such as Undeath or Mist Form while reworking others into new skills like Scion or Shadow Strike.

In the Elder Scrolls lore, Vampires have been shown to range from solo predators to masters of manipulation that form covens to enhance their power. My concept for the Skill Line aims to adhere to that. Vampires will be able to aid other vampires, or become powerful without outside help.

"I offer you my blood. Take it, and you will walk as a lion among sheep. Men will tremble at your approach, and you will never fear death again." - Lord Harkon of the Volkihar Clan

Today, I will show my concept for an improved Vampire skill line.

Ultimate
Bat Swarm 300 - 150 Ultimate. Each Vampire Stage reduces the cost by 75 Ulitmate. Only useable while you are at least Stage 2.

Call Bats to surround you, siphoning the life from enemies within 10m of you and healing you for 30-40% of the damage caused for 5-7 seconds every 1 second. Each stage of Vampirism increases the duration by 1 second, up to a maximum of 7 seconds, and the healing done by 5%, up to a maximum of 40%.
- Morph #1: Blood Transfusion:
  - Increases the radius to 15m. Allied Vampires in the swarm are also healed.
- Morph #2: Draining Swarm:
  - Increases the damage done, but instead of draining health, you drain 3-5% of their highest maximum resource per second.
  - Draining Swarm will not 'drain' resources from enemies, instead it restores resources based on whichever resource the target has a greater pool of. For example, a target with 30k Magicka, 20k Health, and 10k stamina would cause a Draining Swarm to restore Magicka. If the targets highest resource is Health, health will be restored.

Active Skills
Vampiric Drain

Drain your target of health, damaging them and restoring 33% of your maximum health over 12-9 seconds. Each stage of Vampirism reduces the time it takes to complete the heal by 1 second.
- Morph #1: Invigorating Drain:
  - Gain Minor Heroism and Minor Expedition for the duration of the heal.
- Morph #2: Spirit Drain:
  - Reduces the cost and grants you Minor Vitality for the duration of the heal.
Vampiric Drain is intended to perform a function similar to Force Shock and other Instant Cast/Direct Damage skills.

Mist Form

Become an cloud of mist, becoming permanently invisible, reducing all incoming damage by 75%, and granting Major Expedition for 3 seconds. Casting this skill within 3 seconds of it being active increases the cost of this skill by 50%. Casting any other skill will end this effect.
- Morph #1: Unending Mist:
  - Increases the duration to 6 seconds.
- Morph #2: Witching Mist:
  - Enemies within 5m of you are chilled and affected by Minor Magickasteal for 10 seconds.

Blood Brand

Brand a target with a curse of Blood. The curse activates and explodes for Magic Damage and heals allied Vampires within 15m when the target is damaged by a Vampire ability.
- Morph #1: Shadow Trap:
  - Instead of placing the curse on a target, set a trap at your feet. When an enemy steps on the trap, they are afflicted with a Soulburn, dealing Magic Damage for 8 seconds. This damage bypasses resistances, but will not bypass shields.
- Morph #2: Blood Run:
  - Enemies damaged by the blood explosion have a 50% chance to be afflicted by a new curse.

Shadow Strike

Teleport and strike a target with a spinning attack, lashing them with shadow, dealing Magic Damage.
- Morph #1: Dark Embrace
  - Converts to a stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. The target is snared by 30% for 4 seconds after being struck.
- Morph #2: Worst Fear
  - The target is afflicted with Minor Cowardice, increasing their Ultimate Cost by 60% for 10 seconds.
This ability was heavily inspired by the Dragonstar Arena Stage 9 final round.

Blood Pool

Siphon your own blood to curse a target location, dealing Magic Damage to all enemies inside for 10 seconds.
- Morph #1: Rippling Pool
  - Increases the damage done and Vampire Allies standing in the pool are healed for 25% of the damage that would be dealt.
- Morph #2: Infectious Pool
  - Enemies standing in the pool are afflicted with Major Defile and take 5% increased Poison Damage and 5% increased Disease Damage.

Passive Skills

Scion (2 Ranks): Vampire Abilities cost 7/15% less Health, Magicka, and Stamina. If you are Stage 2 or higher, increases Stamina and Magicka recovery by 5/10%
Twilight Vision (1 Rank): While you are undetectable or invisible in combat, you can detect all enemies within 30m.
Blood Ritual (1 Rank): Embrace another player with Noxophilia Sangivoria once every 7 days. You must be Blood Starved to embrace other players.
Undeath (2 Ranks): You take 5/10% less damage per Vampire Stage while you are under 33% health.
Sun Warder (1 Rank): Reduces the severity of the Health Recovery and Fire Damage detriments.
Dark Stalker (1 Rank): Removes the Movement Speed Penalty while sneaking. Sneaking at night costs no stamina. If you are Blood Starved, you crouch instantly and have 1 second of Invisibility.

Fire Damage
Vampires have always taken increased damage from Fire. In order to balance these new Active and Passive skills. Many players feel that the fire damage debuff from Vampirism is negligible, and the Silvered weapon bonus from Fighter's Guild Skills are more deadly. An increased weakness to Fire provides a greater risk/reward gameplay that Zenimax has strived for with Vampirism since the beginning. At Stage 4 (Blood Starved), the fire damage detriment is doubled (Currently on Live, it is 25% at Stage 4).

Stage 1: 25% Weakness, 0% with Sun Warder.
Stage 2: 50% Weakness, 15% with Sun Warder.
Stage 3: 75% Weakness, 30% with Sun Warder.
Blood Starved: 100% Weakness, 50% with Sun Warder.

WrathOfTheRipper · December 2018

Sounds too OP

D0PAMINE · December 2018

Interesting.

SkysOutThizeOut · December 2018

I was all onboard until you wanted to go with 50% fire damage... Untenable in pvp.

TheInvalidUsername · December 2018

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

I was all onboard until you wanted to go with 50% fire damage... Untenable in pvp.

Vampirism is a very strong affliction and it requires an equally strong counter.

Lets say you were fighting a Dunmer MagDK. In cyrodiil, their Whip would deal about 4.5-6k unblocked on a light armored target (Who have access to shields, and shields don't take increased fire damage iirc).

On my Heavy Armor Vampire MagDK, I block most whips for about 1.5k with Heavy Torugs/Impreg/Skoria (granted I am a Breton so i have increased spell resist) and about 3.5k unblocked. This would bring my average blocked whip up to 2.25k and my unblocked to 5.25k. If I had access to these skills, the extra fire damage would be negated with good counterplay. It provides good players with a means to explore new playstyles while allowing enemy players to exploit sub average players with an increased weakness, which (if they learn from their mistakes) would cause them to eventually become good players and not fall victim to the same causes of death they are used to. The Fighter's Guild damage bonus to Vampires wouldn't be changed, and it is usually what ends up hurting Vampires more than anything (I die to Dawnbreaker much more than fire damage).

And the extra fire damage DOES impact some players, so they choose to reduce their vampire stage or forego the vampirism entirely to lessen the effect of it. Its a shifting plate, It allows greater players to excel in a specific area with specialized strengths while still having a counter to them.

In the end, 50% fire damage instead of 25% won't make or break your build.

SkysOutThizeOut · December 2018

@TheInvalidUsername I can clear 16k tooltip on lashes no problem with 17k pen and 45% crit chance with 23% increased crit damage, sometimes 33%. My whips alone would destroy a vamp. Not counting engulfing or leap (clear 24k tooltip, most the time)... I have multiple recorded 20k plus hits with leap. I’ve scored 18k whips before. Embers... embers on a class that’s not Templar.... they’re supposed to be buffing mag classes so they don’t feel the need to be vamp anymore.

JumpmanLane · December 2018

TheInvalidUsername wrote: »

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

I was all onboard until you wanted to go with 50% fire damage... Untenable in pvp.

Vampirism is a very strong affliction and it requires an equally strong counter.

Lets say you were fighting a Dunmer MagDK. In cyrodiil, their Whip would deal about 4.5-6k unblocked on a light armored target (Who have access to shields, and shields don't take increased fire damage iirc).

On my Heavy Armor Vampire MagDK, I block most whips for about 1.5k with Heavy Torugs/Impreg/Skoria (granted I am a Breton so i have increased spell resist) and about 3.5k unblocked. This would bring my average blocked whip up to 2.25k and my unblocked to 5.25k. If I had access to these skills, the extra fire damage would be negated with good counterplay. It provides good players with a means to explore new playstyles while allowing enemy players to exploit sub average players with an increased weakness, which (if they learn from their mistakes) would cause them to eventually become good players and not fall victim to the same causes of death they are used to. The Fighter's Guild damage bonus to Vampires wouldn't be changed, and it is usually what ends up hurting Vampires more than anything (I die to Dawnbreaker much more than fire damage).

And the extra fire damage DOES impact some players, so they choose to reduce their vampire stage or forego the vampirism entirely to lessen the effect of it. Its a shifting plate, It allows greater players to excel in a specific area with specialized strengths while still having a counter to them.

In the end, 50% fire damage instead of 25% won't make or break your build.

You’re dreaming if you think all MY Dunmer MagDk is gonna hit you for is a 6k Whip. 1 Kena 1Balorgh , Spinners Julianos DW Destro. I pop Spell Power Pots just to be evil sometimes. The fire hits hard...what about Leap and Dawnbreakers, Shooting stars...embers even...lot of fire out there.

Skwor · December 2018

Oh look another please make vampires even more op thread.
Why is it you guys never ask for instant death in sunlight with all your buff requests hmmmm?

mb10 · December 2018

I just want them to move blood altar from undaunted to vampirism lol

buff it too while theyre at it

brandonv516 · December 2018

Let's talk Stamina morphs of Vampire skills when we consider the same for Werewolf and Magicka morphs.

Considering WW just got a recent overhaul, I'm guessing we won't see that happen anytime soon.

Some good stuff with your ideas though.

Kadoin · December 2018

Really? Wow, today must be "buff my spec to infinity and beyond" day or something on the forums.

idk · December 2018

While I do not see much worth discussing of the changes to existing skills the additional skills are very unlikely given the current design of vampirism.

Trying to make vampirism like WW is horrible idea. Vampirism is popular for both the passives as well as skills. I use both skills regularly and enjoy everything from sneak speed to magicka regen and more all day every day.

The only reason WW has 5 skills is when they are in form those are the only skills they can use. Plus they do not have access to those skills when they are not in form. They also do not have a real ultimate since it is an ultimate that is required to get into the WW form.

In other words, the additional skills are very unlikely to happen due to logic. If Zos destroyed vamp and made work like WW then those skills would likely not make the cut either since it would not be enough to make the line worthwhile.

The current design overall is good. Good benefits with a cost that is significant considering there is pretty good fire damage in PvP and PvE. Heck, at least two trials even have fire in the final boss fight and the extra fire damage is a certainly noticeable. 50% added damage from fire seems short sighted. If I understand the OP correctly, that they want to increase the fire susceptibility to 50% then it seems they either have not played a vampire of do not do any challenging content or PvP.

Nova Sky · December 2018

You've put thought and effort into this, OP. It'll be interesting to see if Zeni incorporates any such changes, or similar ones, in the coming months and years.

Hotdog_23 · December 2018

The only thing I wish they would add is a passive to hide vampirism. Shoot make it take 3 skill points.

stage 1 look normal

1 skill point to make stage 2 look normal

2 skill points to make stage 3 look normal

3 skill points to make stage 4 look normal.

Mayrael · December 2018

Sounds OP against anyone without fire damage and underpowered against anyone with fire damage.

Kadoin · December 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Sounds OP against anyone without fire damage and underpowered against anyone with fire damage.

The stealth passive when crouching alone is a bad idea that would be too OP. Sneaking not costing stamina would mean that you can get free regen from templar rune, dark deal, etc. and sneak. Being able to go invisible on crouch instantly is the worse idea in the game. Especially considering invisibility grants an "i-frame" right now (the potion, cloak, and even shadowstrike CP skill). On live right now you can also turn invisible mid-air, croutch mid-air, and cloak mid-air while doing a speed jump. Adding an i-frame to an action with 0 cost is a very bad idea, and I can tell you that if that came to live no one would ever be able to damage me for certain.

Tasear · December 2018

Would be nice if the blood animations look better or if feeding was more blade of woe style.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · December 2018

TheInvalidUsername wrote: »

Hello everyone and welcome to the second of many of my concepts. Myself and many others feel that Vampirism is ONLY used for the passives.
blah blah <i want more power> blah blah

Given that Vampires and WW are more populus than normal characters currently, what you ask is ludicrous.

Already ZOS needs to tone down the Vampires not boost them more.

I proposed few times.

a) Remove access to Fighters guild skill line from Vampires and restrict classes to NB & Sorcerer only.
Is oxymoron to have access to FG line while being Vampire either way. Let alone using fire abilities (DK & Templar skill lines) while you are a Vampire. (not only in form but completely).

b) Bring the damage of the Fighters Guild abilities inline to their initial strength upon release. Aka the handcrossbow was able to one shoot Vampires when crit, regardless of their resistances and HP. Quite a few DK Vampire emperors took the forums back in 2014 crying while their character was meeting the odd player who beat them using FG skills. While they (the DK Vampire Emperors) were able to wipe whole zerg single handed and that seemed normal to them.

c) Remove any mitigation from fire. Give Bodgan & Planar Inhibitor a chance

(not that they do not beat into submission noob Vampires today).....

ESO_Nightingale · December 2018

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheInvalidUsername wrote: »

Hello everyone and welcome to the second of many of my concepts. Myself and many others feel that Vampirism is ONLY used for the passives.
blah blah <i want more power> blah blah

Given that Vampires and WW are more populus than normal characters currently, what you ask is ludicrous.

Already ZOS needs to tone down the Vampires not boost them more.

I proposed few times.

a) Remove access to Fighters guild skill line from Vampires and restrict classes to NB & Sorcerer only.
Is oxymoron to have access to FG line while being Vampire either way. Let alone using fire abilities (DK & Templar skill lines) while you are a Vampire. (not only in form but completely).

b) Bring the damage of the Fighters Guild abilities inline to their initial strength upon release. Aka the handcrossbow was able to one shoot Vampires when crit, regardless of their resistances and HP. Quite a few DK Vampire emperors took the forums back in 2014 crying while their character was meeting the odd player who beat them using FG skills. While they (the DK Vampire Emperors) were able to wipe whole zerg single handed and that seemed normal to them.

c) Remove any mitigation from fire. Give Bodgan & Planar Inhibitor a chance
(not that they do not beat into submission noob Vampires today).....

sounds like a really bad idea.

Jeremy · December 2018

I like the idea of giving Mist Form invisibility. That would help make it more effective as an escape move.

But I strongly oppose your plan to increase a Vampire's vulnerability to fire. It's plenty bad enough as it is already and requires regular feeding to keep it from becoming an impediment in PvE. If they were to make a stage 1 Vampire take 25% more fire damage like you suggest I'd simply stop playing as one because it would no longer be worth it to me.

TheShadowScout · December 2018

TheInvalidUsername wrote: »

Hello everyone and welcome to the second of many of my concepts. Myself and many others feel that Vampirism is ONLY used for the passives. I aim to improve the skill line as a whole...

...to make it completely overpowered???
Okay, but then all vampires must be insta-killed and turned to dust as soon as they step into any sunlight!

On a more serious note... the fact that vampirism is not THAT overpowered is -because- this is a MMORPG, not a vampire game. So the vampirism has to be -balanced- against all the "mortals", and any "lion among sheep" stuff will be relegated to your dealings with NPCs (which are "sheep" to every vestige anyhow)

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

a) Remove access to Fighters guild skill line from Vampires and restrict classes to NB & Sorcerer only.

Cannot be done.
As much as I would logve to see vampired to suffer some "backlash" damage when using DK fire skills, templar aedric-power skills and such... its not a viable option for a balanced game.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

b) Bring the damage of the Fighters Guild abilities inline to their initial strength upon release.

Nah.
A seperate "Dawnguard" skill line for vampire hunters that -would- be exclusive with vampirism on the other hand... and -only- affects vampires, with such skills... possibly with passives affecting other skills (like the fighters guild crossbow and dawnbreaker, etc.)... that might be an option. But then such skills would have to severely underperform against anyone not afflicted by vampirism... like "spray holy water", that does nothing against anyone who isn't a vampire but refresh some stamina as it washes their sweat away and "garlic breath" that stuns vamps but only has any effect on your romance chances with mortals and such... so people would have to make a choice, do they slot one of those on the chance they might encounter a vampire in PvP, or do they leave them and instead use something useful against everyone...

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

c) Remove any mitigation from fire.

That one wqould be an "either-or" with the above. Either they make fire more deadly, allowing every villager who remembers to bring a torch along with their pitchfork (not that we have pitchforks as weapons, tho those totally should be a thing!) a threat to their vampire overlords again, or add a special class of "vampire hunter" the bloodsucking fiends have to especially watch out for. But not both.
Personally, its a PvP-PvE tradeoff... PvE has lots of fire-users, PvP is where you might get nabbed by the monster hunters...

...

Things I would love to see for vampires...

A toggleable "Masquerade" skill that allows them to lower their vampiric appearance by one stage - with the tradeoff that it would require a skill slot; so at stage 1 it would make them look mortal, just like count Ravenwatch did during that first meeting... Might have morphs that also reduce fire damage, or reduce "vampire hunter" damage instead... but balanced by a -need- to employ that one, as in, having the justice guards kill any vampires on sight, and giving vampires a "detection chance" depending on their (appearant, as modified by the skill) stage - say, 20% at stage one, 40% at two, 80% at three and automatic at stage four since at that point it would be pretty hard to pass themselves off as sickly mortal... chance would come into play every time they get close to any "civilian" NPC, be it a guard passing by, or talking to a vendor or questgiver...

A "Dominate mortal" skill that can be used to "charm" NPCS for feedings without them calling the guard (witnesses still would). Possibly with morphs that wrap the whole scene in shadows to lower witness detection range, or a different morph that may even allow the skill to have a chance to pacify weak hostile NPCs for a quick snack...

The very same "shadowy teleport" skill NPC bloodfiends use all the time. Hey, if they can do it, why should PC vampires not be able to? Fair is fair, after all, right?

Possibly even an active skill that allows player vampires to raise one humanoid NPCs they just drained as bloodfiend under their control for a while, before it breaks their domination and runs off, for those who always wanted a combat pet like those sorcerors...

And craftable alchemically treated vials that can store blood when feeding at "full", for future consumption, as to better regulate their stage and masquerade as mortals when needed for longer peroids of time...

Also, a highly reduced swimming speed, to make them avoid "running water" like in all those legends!

And the inability to use food buffs! But added "vampire only" recipes that use the aforementioned blood vials...

And a "vampire sanctum" location where only vampires can enter (maybe expand the instance from the initiation quest?), where they can find crafting stations for vampire-themed sets, vendors for vampire-themed stuff, willing "pomme-de-sang" NPCs to take a nip from, fellow vampire players to RP with, etc.