How would you change the champion system?

Solariken · December 2018

Turelus wrote: »

On a less drastic change I would make it more akin to SWTOR's legacy system, where it's about QoL options for your character/account rather than direct power increases.

At the very least I would untie attribute bonuses from the first 300 (I think) CP, and remove all the bonuses which tie directly to character power. The passives are actually more interesting as a system of unlocks to me.

Couldn't have said it better. Perfect.

oXI_Viper_IXo · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I like the system the way it is. Don't see a need for a major overhaul, maybe some minor tweaks and balancing.

What kind of minor tweaks?

Off the top of my head, I would like Arcanist and Mooncalf to be boosted to at least 20% max, simply because the gameplay is so heavily dependant on sustain these days. I miss the ones that straight up reduced the cost of all stam or mag abilities (don't even remember what they were called now).

MLGProPlayer · December 2018

I would like to see some kind of cost-benefit to choosing one over another (rather than just being able to max out everything like we can now), and for the buffs to be weaker and/or more original (not just % buffs to damage/protection).

max_only · December 2018

I want the trees to be one way. If you go down one tree a great boost awaits you but you can’t go down multiple trees to the same extent.

Anyway, I’m fine with what is there. I hear CP pvp is very laggy because of all the cp calculations. Other than that I don’t see a problem with power creep. I see a problem with dungeon combat design that amounts to “burn it fast so we can skip mechanics”.

TheGreatBlackBear · December 2018

CP makes it so that it's more desirable for a tank to wear medium armour to provide buffs like Alkosh or Powerful Assault rather than wear actual tank gear. Stars like Thick Skinned and Iron Clad have brought us to a world where tanks are derided for being "selfish" for wearing sets that boost your survivability. It's crazy.

Tasear · December 2018

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

CP makes it so that it's more desirable for a tank to wear medium armour to provide buffs like Alkosh or Powerful Assault rather than wear actual tank gear. Stars like Thick Skinned and Iron Clad have brought us to a world where tanks are derided for being "selfish" for wearing sets that boost your survivability. It's crazy.

Would you like things to be different?

Tandor · December 2018

I don't have a problem with the CP system as it is, although I think some of the problems others complain about would be resolved if CP points remained account-wide but couldn't be applied until a character had reached level 50. Personally, I'd rather CPs were character-specific but I fully understand why that's not a popular view.

Chrlynsch · December 2018

I would rather have the system add a boon and bane system. Some of my favorite sets in this game are the ones that offer more power or survival but at a cost (Ironblood, Kena, Pirate Skeleton).

So the more specalized you become the worse you get at other things. This would give your character more identity, and would make the system more engaging then the current one.

Alowishus · December 2018

Tannus15 wrote: »

I find the current system bland and un-intersting for the most part and would like to see something cleaner and more specific like the LOTRO trait system

Personally I don't like the "buff everything by x% approach". I'd much rather see a more targeted "buff this skill by this much" and display how much difference that makes in real terms. So increase e-hail damage by 7% (current damage > CP damage) type of thing.
This can even nerf some skills to add utility.
1 constellation per skill tree + 3 class skill trees.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I would like to see some kind of cost-benefit to choosing one over another (rather than just being able to max out everything like we can now), and for the buffs to be weaker and/or more original (not just % buffs to damage/protection).

I agree, they could provide more choices based on abilities or even passives such as ability X does increased dmg or ticks more or gains additional effects. It wouldn't necesarily have to be a 3rd morph but could be a range of choices for specific abilites like "does additional bleed dmg" or "cures a debuff" or "summons a totem that absorbs 3 projectiles" in addition to what the ability already does. This would make you have to take more variables into consideration for your build.

Malacthulhu · December 2018

Diversity, branch it out and allow it to have more of an impact on specific skills and morphs which can be purchased for multiple points etc.

karekiz · December 2018

I wouldn't do anything.

If I did so something maybe increase speed of Champ points for sub 600 by changing how random dungeons work.

Purple:
Random normal = 1 CP
Random Vet non DLC = 5 CP
Random DLC = 10 CP

Blue:
Random Normal = Current blue XP
Random vet blue = 1 CP
Random DLC blue = 5 CP

Then fix the ability to rezone after going into a random.

I don't find so much wrong with CP honestly. Nerfing CP is the exact same as nerfing sustain, gear, class abilities, etc. Except now instead of a single targeted nerf it will be felt across every role, class, and most important. Player skill levels. It won't lower a DPS ceiling <that might I add people literally on this forum tell others to not random DLC becasue "Bad DPS"> it would in essence triple it.

For those saying just remove it are in essence blind you would have to either refund the player stats into another system <in which why bother removing it in the first place>, or cap it at CP "X" which people will most likely leave around playtime of CP"X" as "there would be nothing to do".

*Edit

To me and from I have talked with other probably the most chageable thing is CP160 gear itself. People feel SO happy when they hit 50 for the first time then are greeted with. "Your not actually at cap yet, you now need 160 CP levels to actually gear yourself". CP comes so fast I have hear from people <***NEW TO GAME***> "Why bother getting CP 10-150 gear? In a week it will become obsolete to me". Monster sets face the same issue. At level 50 you are allowed to que for veteran dungeons. Exciting yes? Whats the big upside gear wise from normal to vet? Monster sets!. Ohh wait your not 160. Don't waste you keys on getting the shoulders from the chest. Just wait till CP 160 then use them. See the issue there? There is almost no gear gain <beside purple rings/neck> to running vets at the balanced level <Cp 10+ for something like Fungal Grotto 1>. It basically tells me that CP160 gear honestly needs to be downsized to Level 50 and stats balanced to what CP 160 is. I do agree that you should gain all resource stats maxed at 50. It just makes more sense when you combine it with attributes.

So progression wise it would be:
1-50 = Gear/leveling progression/stats.
CP = Post level speccing - This will allow a player as they level to spec into a more specific role <tank/heal/dps>
Max CP = What it is now.
Max Max CP <All points 100> = Player is now able to freely swap to any role without any penalty <Assuming full mag tank gets buffed>.

ArchMikem · December 2018

Always wondered why levels capped at 50 and didn't go to 100 or beyond. Level 50 has gotten so easy to reach people just power level new characters in skyreach or dungeons for half a day.

Tasear · December 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I would rather have the system add a boon and bane system. Some of my favorite sets in this game are the ones that offer more power or survival but at a cost (Ironblood, Kena, Pirate Skeleton).

So the more specalized you become the worse you get at other things. This would give your character more identity, and would make the system more engaging then the current one.

It would be nice if had more things like that. So we aren't just purely powerful as time goes by.

D0PAMINE · December 2018

Keep it but make it easier to use and figure out. I also wouldn't mind players earning CP starting from level 1

dazee · December 2018

CP should absolutely not be about "Specializing" into one boring role. CP is fine how it is although some stars could use some more diminishing returns perhaps.

Zypheran · December 2018

I'm just shocked at the volume of people that want CP removed or to have it not affect combat. ZOS make small nerfs and the community grabs its pitchforks! Removing CP or taking away combat trees would constitute the biggest nerf ever conceived.
I personally think they really got it right with the CP system. It's one of the best progression systems I have ever seen in any game. Sure it allows more combat power but that's the point. It takes a long time to get to max CP and that should mean something. I have played for years because all that time, I was progressing and becoming more powerful. Take that away and people won't play this game very much after they levelled to 50 or wherever combat progression stops. I think it would have been interesting to ask people how many CP they have as they gave their suggestions. I wonder, given the communities usual intolerance for nerfs, how many 'nerf CP' posts are coming from people at the lower end of the scale and see it as too much of a grind to get to max level?

dazee · December 2018

yes CP allows you to round out your character thus making it more interesting and more fun to play. Why is that a bad thing?

Tasear · December 2018

dazee wrote: »

CP should absolutely not be about "Specializing" into one boring role. CP is fine how it is although some stars could use some more diminishing returns perhaps.

I see your point. What about forks, so not everyone can have everything?

Tasear · December 2018

Zypheran wrote: »

I'm just shocked at the volume of people that want CP removed or to have it not affect combat. ZOS make small nerfs and the community grabs its pitchforks! Removing CP or taking away combat trees would constitute the biggest nerf ever conceived.
I personally think they really got it right with the CP system. It's one of the best progression systems I have ever seen in any game. Sure it allows more combat power but that's the point. It takes a long time to get to max CP and that should mean something. I have played for years because all that time, I was progressing and becoming more powerful. Take that away and people won't play this game very much after they levelled to 50 or wherever combat progression stops. I think it would have been interesting to ask people how many CP they have as they gave their suggestions. I wonder, given the communities usual intolerance for nerfs, how many 'nerf CP' posts are coming from people at the lower end of the scale and see it as too much of a grind to get to max level?

This is going in a strange direction....

Do be clear I asked how would you change system if you could.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

If you could alter champion system then what would you do?

The initial game design was to go to Level 50 and stop, focusing in "end" content and Cyrodiil.

But there were many who complained in the forums that they need more "progression" aka grind.
So ZOS created "Cadwel Silver/Gold", completely killing game immersion and faction royalty & pride, and added the VR system.

However VR16 was "too short" grind for some, who took over the forums again and started demanding a bigger grind.
And here we have the Champion Points system. An bottomless grind pit for the casual players like myself who sticked 2 fingers (or 1) to it, and continue playing casually as before for the purpose of the game. Entertainment when ever we want.

Personally, I could scrap the whole lot and go back to the original idea. Obtain some abilities through pvp (as today) or dungeons/trials (bit better undaunted line but not overpowered). And job done.

D0PAMINE · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

CP should absolutely not be about "Specializing" into one boring role. CP is fine how it is although some stars could use some more diminishing returns perhaps.

I see your point. What about forks, so not everyone can have everything?

I'd personally like CP profiles with different configs.

Tasear · December 2018

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

If you could alter champion system then what would you do?

The initial game design was to go to Level 50 and stop, focusing in "end" content and Cyrodiil.

But there were many who complained in the forums that they need more "progression" aka grind.
So ZOS created "Cadwel Silver/Gold", completely killing game immersion and faction royalty & pride, and added the VR system.

However VR16 was "too short" grind for some, who took over the forums again and started demanding a bigger grind.
And here we have the Champion Points system. An bottomless grind pit for the casual players like myself who sticked 2 fingers (or 1) to it, and continue playing casually as before for the purpose of the game. Entertainment when ever we want.

Personally, I could scrap the whole lot and go back to the original idea. Obtain some abilities through pvp (as today) or dungeons/trials (bit better undaunted line but not overpowered). And job done.

There's some irony here. Aren't most of always complaining about the grind? I just made this thread as power creep is popular subject. For me though, I was would like to see more individuality with skills. Like not everyone can acquire or have everything. Still it's just talk to focus threads like "overland to easy", "what are mechanics" and such.

Tandor · December 2018

dazee wrote: »

yes CP allows you to round out your character thus making it more interesting and more fun to play. Why is that a bad thing?

Because it's designed to give the player something to be completed over time, and too many players lack the willingness these days to look beyond the instant gratification aspect of gaming: levels 1- 50? Go to Skyreach or Alikr's Desert dolmens. Achievements on an alt? Done it once, why should I have to do it again? I've just started the game last month and I'm only 521CP, why can't I be the same level as someone who's been playing it for almost 5 years?

Those are the sorts of things that lie behind many of the forum requests for change these days. Must...dumb...the...game...down...it's taking too long...

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · December 2018

id remove it completely and bring back vet ranks...yes I said it.

chexor · December 2018

I wouldn't remove CP system. It is nice idea towards making different CP allocation for different groups, but issue is, some of the CP is just useless, which leads to simple minded putting 100 cp into mag regen (green tree) and things like that..
Would probably put mag regen cp into blue tree, and balance things better, I WOULD NOT NERF cp or remove it, that's worst go to response..
As i see things from my point of view, whole diversity issue started with transmute (clockwork city), nowdays everyone has BiS gear which is very bad thing for endgame, people should work a bit to get bis gear especially for PVE part..

The thing i would do for next "big patch" is to change CP the way it will make players allocate their CP for different groups, because nowdays 100cp into mag recovery is go to. Same as dmg mitigation, we have so much CP nowdays that i barely change anything from trial to trial (as dps).
For blue tree, it will be a bit harder to change cp to make people happy with a change, but change shouldn't nerf dmg much, it should make people chose between reocvery/pen/crit/raw spell or weapon dmg etc..

P.S. whole RNG drop trait is very bad idea, they went from doing vMA 100 runs to get weapon in good trait, to doing 10 runs and retraiting.. Now they cant change that, 100% they wont reverse change, but thing they can do is for harder content (especially solo content or 4 man arena on vet) is to reward with choosing your own weapon.. Too many RNG things in this game..

TankHealz2015 · December 2018

I'd love to see the CP system modified towards mostly QoL and personalization type improvements:
unlock wayshrines (in your house!) as somebody mentioned above would be fantastic
unlock special execution/finishing moves
unlock special visual effects that clearly demonstrate.. hey I got a lot of CP points (like the hard to obtain skins)
unlock special/unique crafting designs -- like maybe super special guild tabards (like the special color unlocks)
unlock ability to hide specific armor pieces (hide chest piece, shoulders, etc...
unlock ability to change the color of a weapon animation (red fire staff can now shoot a blue/purple/yellow fire ball)
unlock different mount saddlebag styles
unlock ability to group teleport
unlock ability to make & move in group formations (like military formation for RP purposes)

I'd also love to see instead of points simply increasing my power, a decision of either/or for many of the options:
deal more poison damage but take more frost damage
more resistance to archers but less resistance to melee
a self buff or a smaller but group buff
better loot from chests or more gold from monsters
tiny buff to AoE damage or a better buff to single target

jainiadral · December 2018

Tandor wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the CP system as it is, although I think some of the problems others complain about would be resolved if CP points remained account-wide but couldn't be applied until a character had reached level 50. Personally, I'd rather CPs were character-specific but I fully understand why that's not a popular view.

See, that would royally suck if you suck at the game. Like yours truly, for example. CP leveling from the get-go has made running alts a lot more fun to me. If I had to deal with the same pain and agony I had when I first started, I think I'd probably quit playing. Because the difficulty level for me back then was fundamentally not fun.

I remember running the first quest on the EU server during the Summerset event-- that little hint of the game's former difficulty was pretty brutal, actually. I didn't enjoy it in the slightest.

What's nice about the system as-is is that you can choose to use your points or not. I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of voluntary switch-off feature if some players want more difficult overland content to save them some gold. But to take away what makes the game fun and playable for us non-elite folks is... well, insta-quit worthy, honestly.

Blackbird_V · December 2018

Bring back Veteran Ranks, with a more linear approach to CPS. Each veteran rank awards you 1 Veteran Skill Point. 16 or fewer max. This is account-wide, unlike how it used to be.

With this, it will be similar to CP.

Reprisal:
- Elemental Expert: increases your frost, shock, fire and magic damage by 10% -
- Elfborn: Increases your Critical Damage done by 15%
- Overcharge: Adds 13% Spell and Weapon Critical Chance
- Staff Expert: Increases your light and heavy attack damage by 17% while a staff is equipped
- Weapons Expert: Increase your light and heavy attack damage by 17% while a bow or sword(s) are equipped
- Return: Once every 12 seconds, you redirect 25% of the damage you take back at your opponent.
- Sunder: You heal for 2% of damage done to your target
- Mark Target: Increase your damage done by 10%
- Onslaught: Increase your weapon and spell damage by 500, but increases damage you take by 30% and increases cost of your non-ultimate abilities by 8%
- Affliction: Reduce your targets Health, Stamina and Magicka Recovery by 15% for 10 seconds. 15 second cooldown.

Stout:
- Hulking:Decreases your damage done by 8%
- Spell ward:Decreases magical and elemental damage you receive by 10%
- Resist Affliction:Decreases physical, poison and disease damage you receive by 10%
-Steadfast Guard: Imbue your staves with power of conjuration. With a staff equipped, blocking costs magicka instead of stamina, and reduces the cost of block by 40%. Allows you to equip a shield with a staff
- Armour focus When wearing 5 or more Light, Medium are Heavy armour pieces, increase your Physical and Spell Resistance by 3000
- Premonition: Decrease status effects and all Minor and Major debuffs you receive by 20%

Clairvoyance:
- Blessings of Magnus:Increase your maximum magicka by 10%
- Fortitude: Increase your maximum stamina by 10%
- Rejuvenate: Increase your Maximum Health by 10%
- Mooncalf: Increase your stamina recovery by 10%
- Arcanist: Increase your Magicka Recovery by 10%
- Pure-blooded: Increase your Health Recovery by 10%
- Warlord: Decrease cost of break free and block by 15%
- Athletics: Increase your movement speed by 2%, decrease cost of sprint by 25% and reduce cost of block by 15%

Virtue:
- Healing Expert: Increases healing done by 15%
- Sharp-minded: Enemies that you set off-balance take 10% more damage for 5 seconds.
- Resourceful: When resurrected. gain Major Heroism for 10 seconds, and increased resource recovery by 500 for 20 seconds
- Synergise: When an ally activates a synergy from you, it's potency to them is increased by 20%
- Shield Expert: Increase strength of shields you apply to yourself and allies by 15%

Obviously would need MAJOR balancing because thats an overdone example

but 1 point and 16 to chose from. Will be more consequences.

Jakx · December 2018

Its going to be interesting to see where CP goes with the new guy stating they want to have a direction for Combat in ESO. The CP system while good at first is part of that larger issue of.... they have no idea where combat in the game is going but we'll just keep throwing CP's into the mix. Inevitably any combat direction ESO is going to take, that vision likely will require a massive overhaul to the CP system.

MMOs require people to get stronger to entice them to play, largely. The CP system provides that in a clever way without changing minimum requirements on gear. Its the core of ESO that allows people to horde different sets and try different playstyles. So with that in mind I also dont see how they can cleanly get away from CP but the current trend of just throwing more CP's is taking the game into a place that I dont think the developers even want.

CPs are probably a nightmare for balance as well. No CP PvP vs. CP PvP. New players with low CP vs. experienced high end CP, changes the experiences and balance completely.

I dont know what the future holds. In one regard getting rid of CP is an interesting idea but I guarantee nobody is ready for the flip side that would require power rewards be placed into itemization. This means no longer hording CP 160 gear but likely having varying gear levels. The power rewards have to come from somewhere and it wont be satiated by a bunch of non-power progression. Its MMO 101 at a basic level here.

Similarly CP could stay and they rescale stat bonuses, add more trees, change the functionality on some and try to dilute some of the power creep with new choices. This however, would probably then require a rebalancing of some of the new DLC content but might just be what needs to be done to reset the knob on CP power creep.

Likely though, in my cynical view, nothing changes. Maybe the new guy proves me wrong.

bharathitman · December 2018

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

If you could alter champion system then what would you do?

The initial game design was to go to Level 50 and stop, focusing in "end" content and Cyrodiil.

But there were many who complained in the forums that they need more "progression" aka grind.
So ZOS created "Cadwel Silver/Gold", completely killing game immersion and faction royalty & pride, and added the VR system.

However VR16 was "too short" grind for some, who took over the forums again and started demanding a bigger grind.
And here we have the Champion Points system. An bottomless grind pit for the casual players like myself who sticked 2 fingers (or 1) to it, and continue playing casually as before for the purpose of the game. Entertainment when ever we want.

Personally, I could scrap the whole lot and go back to the original idea. Obtain some abilities through pvp (as today) or dungeons/trials (bit better undaunted line but not overpowered). And job done.

Every game needs to evolve. If ZOS had stuck to what they did originally then we would not be playing the game now, they would have shut down the servers a long time ago. If too much attention and importance to lore, immersion, faction royalty is given then most of us would have nothing to do.