"It's just cosmetics" argument on gambling boxes / cash shop.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

Ertosi wrote: »

For those having issues with the definition of "gambling" lets look at loot bags outside of the game.

"Blind Bags" are popular in all corners of the toy industry. Is this gambling? Absolutely not. You're paying for a random toy and that's exactly what you get: a random toy. But should laws continue being changed to include all games of chance and not just true gambling (where money can be won), you can be certain they'll eventually be targeted as well. Why? Because its making money and regulating it allows others to stick their fingers in their pie.

Lets look at a very simplified extreme:

You put in a quarter but you have no idea what color you're going to get. Is it random? Most certainly. But its also equally certain that this isn't gambling; you're just getting a gumball.

All of these examples are exactly the same as Crown Crates: you put in your quarter(s) and you get a random assortment of prizes that have no monetary value. Some people enjoy that randomness and are willing to pay for it. That doesn't make it gambling as you're getting exactly what you paid for and it has no real value. If you don't like that, don't buy that. But its very misguided to call it gambling just because you don't like it and want to see it gone.

An active distortion when compared to crown crates because there aren't literal junk in either of them that has a higher chance of being found, in the gumball situation you can see what you're getting and its a physical thing that exists same with the toy bag you know its toys of the type there and you can feel the size and that something exists, you just don't know what it is.

These are not apple to apple comparisons and lead to a misrepresentation.

Your most appropriate comparison would be from other crown crates itself or a point by point comparison between gambling at a casino and all factors and gambling on crown crates.

Ertosi · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

For those having issues with the definition of "gambling" lets look at loot bags outside of the game.

"Blind Bags" are popular in all corners of the toy industry. Is this gambling? Absolutely not. You're paying for a random toy and that's exactly what you get: a random toy. But should laws continue being changed to include all games of chance and not just true gambling (where money can be won), you can be certain they'll eventually be targeted as well. Why? Because its making money and regulating it allows others to stick their fingers in their pie.

Lets look at a very simplified extreme:

You put in a quarter but you have no idea what color you're going to get. Is it random? Most certainly. But its also equally certain that this isn't gambling; you're just getting a gumball.

All of these examples are exactly the same as Crown Crates: you put in your quarter(s) and you get a random assortment of prizes that have no monetary value. Some people enjoy that randomness and are willing to pay for it. That doesn't make it gambling as you're getting exactly what you paid for and it has no real value. If you don't like that, don't buy that. But its very misguided to call it gambling just because you don't like it and want to see it gone.

An active distortion when compared to crown crates because there aren't literal junk in either of them that has a higher chance of being found, in the gumball situation you can see what you're getting and its a physical thing that exists same with the toy bag you know its toys of the type there and you can feel the size and that something exists, you just don't know what it is.

These are not apple to apple comparisons and lead to a misrepresentation.

Your most appropriate comparison would be from other crown crates itself or a point by point comparison between gambling at a casino and all factors and gambling on crown crates.

The comparison is as about as literal and direct as could possibly be made. The only way I can perceive someone having trouble with this very simply analogy is if they were being purposefully obtuse.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

No, it's not a matter of having trouble with the very simple analogy, it's a matter of seeing that it does not relate at all.

Either compare loot crates from other games and systems or compare the actual concept of gambling at a casino and everything factored into it including the ability to exchange tokens for real money.

You also are trying to create a narrative that the goal is to remove them just by claiming that random loot bags for legos are somehow going to end it and it's some ridiculous notion. That's not even the point.

You CLEARLY have the intention of creating a narrative, this was made extremely obvious when I called you out for adding your own non-sourced context for the intention of why people want to regulate online loot boxes, loot crates, etc.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · December 2018

Oh sweet father of Vampires not another one of these horrendous threads. Honestly hope ZoS closes this one for being “similar to the others”.

Or god forbid I’ll jump into a portal to Coldharbour.

MilwaukeeScott · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

An active distortion when compared to crown crates because there aren't literal junk in either of them that has a higher chance of being found, in the gumball situation you can see what you're getting and its a physical thing that exists same with the toy bag you know its toys of the type there and you can feel the size and that something exists, you just don't know what it is.

Do understand that EVERYTHING you acquire in this game is made of digital pixels?

We may be getting closer to understanding the problem he/she is having with Crown Crates.

Parrot1986 · December 2018

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Oh sweet father of Vampires not another one of these horrendous threads. Honestly hope ZoS closes this one for being “similar to the others”.

Or god forbid I’ll jump into a portal to Coldharbour.

100%

I’m thinking of doing of poll to see for 2019 which thread type will be most created.

Loot boxes are bad
Necromancer class please
Nerf Sorcs
Can we hide vampirism

There’s got to come a point when these conversations are just regurgitation and I’m not sure any new points can ever be made at this point

Reistr_the_Unbroken · December 2018

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Oh sweet father of Vampires not another one of these horrendous threads. Honestly hope ZoS closes this one for being “similar to the others”.

Or god forbid I’ll jump into a portal to Coldharbour.

100%

I’m thinking of doing of poll to see for 2019 which thread type will be most created.

Loot boxes are bad
Necromancer class please
Nerf Sorcs
Can we hide vampirism

There’s got to come a point when these conversations are just regurgitation and I’m not sure any new points can ever be made at this point

Lordy I posted a thread about me getting a skin I’ve achieved to get for months- and someone blatantly posted “is this worth a post?”

Yes, yes it is. Better than seeing 50 crap threads like these in all honesty.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

An active distortion when compared to crown crates because there aren't literal junk in either of them that has a higher chance of being found, in the gumball situation you can see what you're getting and its a physical thing that exists same with the toy bag you know its toys of the type there and you can feel the size and that something exists, you just don't know what it is.

Do understand that EVERYTHING you acquire in this game is made of digital pixels?

We may be getting closer to understanding the problem he/she is having with Crown Crates.

You've actively insulted, trolled, and perpetuated a sense of toxicity against those that get addictions or are exploited or manipulated by intentionally designed mechanics that use consulted psychologists to design systems that influence the brain. Among other things.

And I'm probably only ever going to respond exactly this whenever I see a comment from you, because I will no longer respond to your trolling.

MilwaukeeScott · December 2018

[quote="Delsanab14_ESO;c-5671848"And I'm probably only ever going to respond exactly this whenever I see a comment from you, because I will no longer respond to your trolling.[/quote]

Thank goodness!!

Peace, love and Soul!

Juju_beans · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Really. Just stop it with the "it's only cosmetics you don't have to buy it" argument stance. Nobody plays MMO games and want their characters to look like hobo bums. Every single player want's to customize their character with cool looking gear. That's why cosmetics are such a weakness for people and why the companies exploit that desire with the gambling boxes. It would really help if the whales and friends weren't mentally conditioned to accept such horrendously predatory behavior from gaming companies.

I have plenty of neat looking costumes that I can dye different colors and I got them all for FREE just playing the game.
Being a gaming whale is a personal weakness. And if you blow hundreds of dollars in microtransactions then you "might" have a problem. But it is YOUR problem, not the game publisher's problem.

You can't even dye costumes without ESO Plus.

And I don't know many costumes in game that were "free" that were all that good.

Yes you can. When you buy the game you get a couple hundred crown. You can buy dye sets and use them.
Also when free eso+ comes around you can dye all your costumes.

There's 2 ways to dye costumes without having to have a sub.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Really. Just stop it with the "it's only cosmetics you don't have to buy it" argument stance. Nobody plays MMO games and want their characters to look like hobo bums. Every single player want's to customize their character with cool looking gear. That's why cosmetics are such a weakness for people and why the companies exploit that desire with the gambling boxes. It would really help if the whales and friends weren't mentally conditioned to accept such horrendously predatory behavior from gaming companies.

I have plenty of neat looking costumes that I can dye different colors and I got them all for FREE just playing the game.
Being a gaming whale is a personal weakness. And if you blow hundreds of dollars in microtransactions then you "might" have a problem. But it is YOUR problem, not the game publisher's problem.

You can't even dye costumes without ESO Plus.

And I don't know many costumes in game that were "free" that were all that good.

Yes you can. When you buy the game you get a couple hundred crown. You can buy dye sets and use them.
Also when free eso+ comes around you can dye all your costumes.

There's 2 ways to dye costumes without having to have a sub.

That is a very clever way of distorting the issue so as to defend Zenimax.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Really. Just stop it with the "it's only cosmetics you don't have to buy it" argument stance. Nobody plays MMO games and want their characters to look like hobo bums. Every single player want's to customize their character with cool looking gear. That's why cosmetics are such a weakness for people and why the companies exploit that desire with the gambling boxes. It would really help if the whales and friends weren't mentally conditioned to accept such horrendously predatory behavior from gaming companies.

I have plenty of neat looking costumes that I can dye different colors and I got them all for FREE just playing the game.
Being a gaming whale is a personal weakness. And if you blow hundreds of dollars in microtransactions then you "might" have a problem. But it is YOUR problem, not the game publisher's problem.

You can't even dye costumes without ESO Plus.

And I don't know many costumes in game that were "free" that were all that good.

Yes you can. When you buy the game you get a couple hundred crown. You can buy dye sets and use them.
Also when free eso+ comes around you can dye all your costumes.

There's 2 ways to dye costumes without having to have a sub.

That is a very clever way of distorting the issue so as to defend Zenimax.

No, it’s stating facts sweetie

Hoolielulu · December 2018

1. You're never going to get everyone to agree with you

2. The company isn't going to look at this forum and think, "Gosh! We're making money hand over fist legally but some people are upset so we should stop!"

3. For real? Another thread lecturing about the same thing?

myskyrim26 · December 2018

Actually, we have a lot of FREE IN-GAME COSMETICS.

1. Almost ALL THE IN-GAME MOTIFS - and they are a lot in number - give the opportunity to create a cloth dress siutable for peaceful life of a peasant or a rich landlord, a leather outfit for a hunter or a thief, and something really tough for warriors of all kinds, be it an evil butcher or a knight of the Eight. If that is not enough, we have cloth items to steal and wear. Also, we have FREE COSTUMES from daily rewards and in-game activities. And also, FREE SKINS.

2. We have FREE MOUNTS AND PETS from in-game activities and daily rewards. Also, somitemes we have mounts and pets when a new chapter comes out.

3. We have FREE CROWN CRATES that provide additional costumes, mounts, pets and other cosmetics.

4. We have a DIRECT SALES STORE: buy crowns with your real money - buy items you need with crowns.

5. We have ESO+ free items - costumes, maybe pets and mounts later.

TL DR: if you don't like crown crates system, just look through the list above.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

Hello everyone,

With there already being a thread open on this subject, we've felt it necessary to close this one down. Feel free to move the conversation over to this thread here.

Thank you for understanding.