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Help me not fail in duels and 1v2. Also Nerf Cloak

Aedrion
Aedrion
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Hello ESO-ers

Please, help me not die of pure rage.

I nearly popped a blood vessel in my brain today in BG's when I fought a few matches and in each match, I got destroyed. To further save myself from brain haemorrhage, I want to ask for aid here on the forum and if not that, at least some confirmation that I'm not the only one going through this.

I play stamsorc. Could go over all the time I spent and gear I tried and how I eventually settled on what is considered some of the BiS loadout for sorc but that information isn't relevant to the point I wanna make here.

Just know that I do very well in most group fights in BG's or Cyro, managing to wipe groups larger than us with a team half the size of theirs.

But then I get into Cyro duels or BG duels and suddenly I'm some low level L2P noob. Magblades and stamblades seem to avoid 50% of my damage by cloaking my dots. Magplars just hit me with Puncturing Sweeps and Purifying Light while I can't seem to keep them low, they just heal back to full constantly. Often, I feel like I don't even have a chance.

Sometimes I win but it's very 50-50 and as soon as it's 1v2, my death clock ticks very fast.

I feel like all the time and effort I put into carefully building my character is undone and my motivation for playing – getting to be one of those PvP'ers whose name you recognise– is unreachable for some reason.

Having put so much time into ESO now, seeing all my time invested turn into a 5 second death makes me just want to log out, unsub and uninstal. And no. I wouldn't give anyone my stuff, it would go to “Help an Orc Orphan” charity.

Am I the only one who feels like I get farmed despite playing BG's daily and practising a lot? Or am I missing some vital parts to my playstyle? Some hidden secret that permits those people – you know who they are – in PvP to just go 1vX and kill people one by one?

Any tips and tricks would be appreciated and if you can't do that, it would already feel better just knowing that it happens to everybody and that even the pro's sometimes get trololol'd.

Cheers
Aedrion

PS: Nerf Cloak
  • technohic
    technohic
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    I can tell you my deaths happen often as I tunnel vision a kill. Or if I am 1v1 and dont notice that another guy showed up and is sniping me in the back. I'd say I am not too much different than you. Sometimes I beat up on a bunch of players, but then the organized duos or just really good individuals still wreck me.

    Only thing I can think of is to use LOS until you have the edge with your ultimate being up. And unless you have a huge burst 100-0 combo of some sort, dont waste it in opening up or they are going to heal to full, and not just templars. I like to have defiles myself to help combat this.

    Spamming CC can cause you to not have it available when you have your opening for burst so that goes with the timing thing. This often leads to unorganized or uncoordinated groups being farmed by tankier people as then no one can time burst and CC at the same time

    Find the squishiest target first.

    Think this is all basic so I'd be glad to hear some tips myself
  • Aedrion
    Aedrion
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    Hi Technohic

    Looks like we're in the same boat. Sometimes I go 15-2 in BG's but I suspect that's when I fight low-ranked players. I dunno why that happens. Sometimes my BG's are full of meta and big names and sometimes they're just a potato farm.

    I learned not to open with my burst but open with a stun, then sorta endure and sack their resources until they make a mistake, then drop Dawnbreaker and try to kill fast.

    Still, some people, mostly in 1v1 seem to have unlimited resources, deal big damage and are very tanky. Against that, I'm clueless. Emphasis on seem. Likely, they actually don't.
  • MalagenR
    MalagenR
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    Hi Technohic

    Looks like we're in the same boat. Sometimes I go 15-2 in BG's but I suspect that's when I fight low-ranked players. I dunno why that happens. Sometimes my BG's are full of meta and big names and sometimes they're just a potato farm.

    I learned not to open with my burst but open with a stun, then sorta endure and sack their resources until they make a mistake, then drop Dawnbreaker and try to kill fast.

    Still, some people, mostly in 1v1 seem to have unlimited resources, deal big damage and are very tanky. Against that, I'm clueless. Emphasis on seem. Likely, they actually don't.

    Yeah, the part in your post where you avoided telling us what your "BIS Loadout" is - probably is where your problem lies. But by all means, explain to us how you're pro and don't need help but need our help.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    I may not be understanding this correctly, but it sounds like you are built for small scale combat with an organized group in Cyrodiil?

    And then struggling when you get away from your group and have to 1v1/1v2?

    You'll have to evaluate whether its your tactics or your build. Do you find that you are relying on your group members for healing, buffs, or to pressure the enemies for you? Or are you struggling with resources?

    Unfortunately, without specifics, its pretty hard to give good advice. I would suggest that as you start making changes, change one thing at a time. That way you can evaluate what actually made the difference in allow you to be more effective on your own without a group.
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    Am I the only one who feels like I get farmed despite playing BG's daily and practising a lot? Or am I missing some vital parts to my playstyle? Some hidden secret that permits those people – you know who they are – in PvP to just go 1vX and kill people one by one?

    If you are comparing yourself to YouTube 1vX videos, just don't. Those are highlight reels. If you are simply failing to 1vX, you aren't getting farmed. If you are getting 1vX'd... okay you are getting farmed. :#

    If there is someone in particular that you encounter on the other end of a death recap whose performance you admire, talk to them. Ask if you can duel them sometime to help get better. They might say no but I doubt they'll be offended.

  • Soris
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    Playing against good players and bad players are two different things. The difference is like the day and night. Most youtubers only show off their 1vX clips vs lower skilled players, which is totally understandable because 1vX against good players is extremely hard and usually not so possible.

    That beaing said, maybe you can try cp pvp. Time to kill is much higher there and everything cost less. You can even facetank 2+ people with a dd build. Most streamers play in cp, so maybe thats why they seem to have godly builds.
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • Koolio
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    Hello ESO-ers

    Please, help me not die of pure rage.

    I nearly popped a blood vessel in my brain today in BG's when I fought a few matches and in each match, I got destroyed. To further save myself from brain haemorrhage, I want to ask for aid here on the forum and if not that, at least some confirmation that I'm not the only one going through this.

    I play stamsorc. Could go over all the time I spent and gear I tried and how I eventually settled on what is considered some of the BiS loadout for sorc but that information isn't relevant to the point I wanna make here.

    Just know that I do very well in most group fights in BG's or Cyro, managing to wipe groups larger than us with a team half the size of theirs.

    But then I get into Cyro duels or BG duels and suddenly I'm some low level L2P noob. Magblades and stamblades seem to avoid 50% of my damage by cloaking my dots. Magplars just hit me with Puncturing Sweeps and Purifying Light while I can't seem to keep them low, they just heal back to full constantly. Often, I feel like I don't even have a chance.

    Sometimes I win but it's very 50-50 and as soon as it's 1v2, my death clock ticks very fast.

    I feel like all the time and effort I put into carefully building my character is undone and my motivation for playing – getting to be one of those PvP'ers whose name you recognise– is unreachable for some reason.

    Having put so much time into ESO now, seeing all my time invested turn into a 5 second death makes me just want to log out, unsub and uninstal. And no. I wouldn't give anyone my stuff, it would go to “Help an Orc Orphan” charity.

    Am I the only one who feels like I get farmed despite playing BG's daily and practising a lot? Or am I missing some vital parts to my playstyle? Some hidden secret that permits those people – you know who they are – in PvP to just go 1vX and kill people one by one?

    Any tips and tricks would be appreciated and if you can't do that, it would already feel better just knowing that it happens to everybody and that even the pro's sometimes get trololol'd.

    Cheers
    Aedrion

    PS: Nerf Cloak

    A couple of questions I have to possibly help you

    How long have you been playing?

    Do you only have that 1 character?

    Have you gone to multiple extremes on your class? (Like build for full tank, build for full damage, then build for max sustain)

    Do your sets only but one aspect of the build? Aka Spriggans?

    Have you completed Vet Maelstrom?

    Are the people you are dueling regularly in PvP?


    I ask these all for specific reasons. I will also add that some people may be in the groove when you duel them. I have tons of really really good friends. Some people I can’t beat but they go destroy the same people I struggle with. Even though I can win against my friends.

    Also there does come a point when a nightblade cloaking in a duel actually hurts them more than you. 90% of all people run the same skill setup so it becomes really easy to predict. As soon as A nightblade goes in stealth in a duel scenario I can almost guarantee a win.

    I also maimed a nightblade for two years though
  • kylewwefan
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    Battlegrounds are a mixed bag. Sometimes you can go in there and lay the smack down on em. Most times I go in and get spanked for 5 minutes. It can be a combination of many different things.

    Like you get grouped up with a bunch of potatoes or solo type players that all want to do their own thing. Wrong roles. People going in right on their dungeon and trial build, just to get wrecked.

    Battlegrounds are good for teamwork. Your not gonna be able to 1 v X in here except for maybe if your really really super good and everyone else is terribad. It does happen, but a bit outside the norm.

    Remember, CP don’t work in here, so it’s all about your build. Dueling and Cyrodil builds might be a bit more driven by CP making things work that wouldn’t normally. A mediocre group that’s working well together, can totally dominate. Because of teamwork. A real PvP tank and healer can make a monster difference.

    I have zero expectations of winning when I go in, just hope to get second place in some timely fashion.

    If you want to get serious or something, you need to get a group. And go in premade. Then you’ll have something else to gripe about. Like all you play against are these people that are really freaking good. They’re only gonna let you terrorize regular pugs for so long. Then your stuck playing with the real monsters.
  • NyassaV
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    Sounds like the problem is that you're playing in BGs which are already pretty messed up.
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
  • Crixus8000
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    Knowing your build would help a lot. The usual stamsorc build I see for bgs lacks a spammable and is built towards group play and aoe, and it works well, but it lacks for dueling imo, that's why posting your sets/skills would be the best way to see what's happening.

    As a stamsorc you have some good skills towards dueling. Streak/Bol is a great counter skill for most fights. If your getting pressured hard just streak away and dark deal. Use hurricane to counter nightblades, and practice this a lot, after a while it becomes quite easy to see where they are going.

    No matter what your doing, 1v1, 1vx ect you need to have good healing and sustain. it doesn't matter if you have 10k wep dmg, if your getting killed in 2 hits or only have the sustain to land 1 rotation then your dead. Use dark deal and mess around with your stamina sustain untill it's at the point where you can comfortably use whatever you need to. And of course make sure you heavy attack often. Tankiness comes from countering your opponents burst and using heals, keep vigor up, crit surge, forward momentum ect and dark deal gives a nice heal too.

    In 1vx is about using clever positioning, using los and it's very important to go for the squishiest character first, then that's one less person to deal with, being able to identify who that is will take some practice.

    for 1v1s keep up the pressure, don't just waste your ult like I see many doing, get your opponent down to around 50-70% hp then burst, don't try to burst them from full if they are a decen't player.

    And look out of the signals of peoples burst. For example, stamdens always burst with sub assault, so I stun them before it goes off and counter their burst or simply just block the sub, and most of the time you will also block the db they tried getting in with it. Sorcs usually burst with meteor, so vigor and block to counter it ect
    Edited by Crixus8000 on December 13, 2018 7:14PM
  • brandonv516
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    Stamsorcs dominate BGs. It could be you are starting to play higher MMR players (some with more talent) and are feeling the results of that.
  • NuarBlack
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    Are you using surge, Blood thirst, and hurricane? These all make stam sorc one of the best BG classes right now. The healing from surge and blood thirst give you major staying power and hurricane is the best skill for pulling NBs out of cloak if you learn to stay on top of them and not let hurricane fall off. Running quick cloak for major evasion and the mobility helps your survival a ton too. Back bar 2h for FM.

    You should be running 1 offensive set, 1 utility/sustain set, and 1 defensive set essentially. These can be any combination of your two 5 piece and monster sets.
  • Aedrion
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    @MalagenR : I run 7th Legion, Bone Pirate and Troll king. Medium armour. Dual wield + Bow (previously 2h). Poison on bow. Bleeds and Spins on Dual wield. Build has about 24k HP, 11K magicka and 26k stam. 1.8K stam regen, 500 HP regen. ~4.3k weapon dmg with all procs and glyphs and ~30% crit. This build is considered one of multiple BiS sorc setups. Skills vary depending on content. If you spot a mistake there, feel free to point it out.

    @VaranisArano : I'll confess that with a healer and group support, this problem goes away. It's mostly prominent in solo. I'll perhaps have to re-evaluate how many AoE abilities I wanna use. I use Shrouded dagger atm to slow them for Dawnbreaker, maybe I can run something more focussed.

    @Soris : I've never played on CP and all BG's are non-CP. I know that many 1vX compilations are on CP, where people kill lowbies who have their CP spent for PvE

    @Koolio : In reply. Played for about 3 years on and off. Only 1 char mainly due to time restraints. I do have some alts though but I play them less. For sets, see above. Have gone to extremes yes, so balanced in the middle now. Haven't done maelstrom. Don't want the weapons, also doesn't sound like a lot of fun. The people I duel are PvP-only yea.

    @kylewwefan : All you said sounds really famliar. Good to know I'm not alone. I don't really understand how the matchmaking works. One moment we're in a team with all PvP'ers and we do really well, that's when I get amazing KD for example. And then we're playing with people that end the BG with 80k dmg or 300k dmg and 0 healing done. Or people with 600k+ damage but 10 deaths. Perhaps getting in a premade is the answer.

    @NyassaV : Hah! Yes but as opposed to Cyro, mostly lagfree. :)

    @Crixus8000 : That's some solid advice! I went to the extreme with tankiness and then back but if you lack damage, your pressure can be so low that they needn't defend and can just wittle you down eventually. People keep saying heavy armour is best for 1v1 but I suffer in heavy. Maybe more heavy attacks! The rest of you advice will take practice. Like spotting the squishy. I know that they often do lots of dmg so getting rid of them because they have no defence is good. Honestly, I can't see people's burst coming for the life of me. :( Animation cancelling is cool but for PvP, it's a terrible thing. Can't block what you can't see. Also, I love your name! ;-)

    @brandonv516 : Stamsorc deffo good in BG's but I don't know how to check my MMR so couldn't tell you where I am ^_^



  • Koolio
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    I would highly suggest playing the class that gives you trouble. Learn their passives. Study their burst from their perspective to see exactly why they are doing the specific moves it really helps.

    I hade no idea why MDK were snaring me for quite some time. Then I played one and realized it was a passive.

    Also definitely take your PvP build into maelstrom. Not for weapons but for proper prioritizing. This will probably be frustrating but humbling and eye opening.

    It doesn’t seem to be lack of general knowledge or anything of that nature.

    Also your Stam is pretty low. Even on an Argonian Stam Dk with 2 Swift and NO gear stamina bonuses I have more Stam. That doesn’t seem right. Something is wrong.

  • Crixus8000
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    Aedrion wrote: »

    @Crixus8000 : That's some solid advice! I went to the extreme with tankiness and then back but if you lack damage, your pressure can be so low that they needn't defend and can just wittle you down eventually. People keep saying heavy armour is best for 1v1 but I suffer in heavy. Maybe more heavy attacks! The rest of you advice will take practice. Like spotting the squishy. I know that they often do lots of dmg so getting rid of them because they have no defence is good. Honestly, I can't see people's burst coming for the life of me. :( Animation cancelling is cool but for PvP, it's a terrible thing. Can't block what you can't see. Also, I love your name! ;-)

    Haha thanks ^^

    And as for damage you would be surprized how low my offensive stats are, yet I do quite well in 1v1s on my current build. It's hard to wittle you down when you have infinate sustain and great survivability, it alows me to stay basically perma offensive, making up for my lack of damage and making them waste more resources and time staying defensive. But like I said it's also about catching them off guard, just wait for them to be too focused on attacking you so that their hp goes a little low, if their hp is around 50 -70% that means they don't currently have all their heals/buffs up, that combined with the fact they arent full hp means your burst will be much more likely to kill them. But of course for bgs and things I understand if you want to pump damage up more, I simply mean you don't need huge damage to compete.

    As for animation canceling I agree it can be near impossible to counter some things. but many skills can't be hidden, like sub assault, that nice bright light it lets out always shows the skill, meteor shows a white ring around your feet, stamplars time burst with pol ect. There will usually always be signals that your about to be bursted. Keeping your hp full/near full is very important too.

    And yes imo I think heavy is best for 1v1. Weave in heavy attacks often, have decent stam recovery and don't roll too often. I like having some extra magicka rec as a stamsorc and use ball of lightning more than rolling, saving your stam and getting you out of a bad situation. I have 1400 buffed stam rec on my stamsorc, I find that's my sweet spot for all types of play, in 1v1 it could go even less but I like being well rounded.

    Edit: Yeah your build seems good for bgs, but like I thought you lack a spammable ? The usually db/tornado setup doesn't work too well in 1v1, or 1vx most of the time. If you have master axes you can get away with it more, but I like using 2h for dizzy swing, I know many hate it but honestly stamsorc lacks a better option in my opinion. Unless you go full cheese like ww with torugs. oblivion and bleeds. That will kill most in 1v1 without even trying.

    Edited by Crixus8000 on December 13, 2018 8:59PM
  • MalagenR
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    @MalagenR : I run 7th Legion, Bone Pirate and Troll king. Medium armour. Dual wield + Bow (previously 2h). Poison on bow. Bleeds and Spins on Dual wield. Build has about 24k HP, 11K magicka and 26k stam. 1.8K stam regen, 500 HP regen. ~4.3k weapon dmg with all procs and glyphs and ~30% crit. This build is considered one of multiple BiS sorc setups. Skills vary depending on content. If you spot a mistake there, feel free to point it out.

    @VaranisArano : I'll confess that with a healer and group support, this problem goes away. It's mostly prominent in solo. I'll perhaps have to re-evaluate how many AoE abilities I wanna use. I use Shrouded dagger atm to slow them for Dawnbreaker, maybe I can run something more focussed.

    @Soris : I've never played on CP and all BG's are non-CP. I know that many 1vX compilations are on CP, where people kill lowbies who have their CP spent for PvE

    @Koolio : In reply. Played for about 3 years on and off. Only 1 char mainly due to time restraints. I do have some alts though but I play them less. For sets, see above. Have gone to extremes yes, so balanced in the middle now. Haven't done maelstrom. Don't want the weapons, also doesn't sound like a lot of fun. The people I duel are PvP-only yea.

    @kylewwefan : All you said sounds really famliar. Good to know I'm not alone. I don't really understand how the matchmaking works. One moment we're in a team with all PvP'ers and we do really well, that's when I get amazing KD for example. And then we're playing with people that end the BG with 80k dmg or 300k dmg and 0 healing done. Or people with 600k+ damage but 10 deaths. Perhaps getting in a premade is the answer.

    @NyassaV : Hah! Yes but as opposed to Cyro, mostly lagfree. :)

    @Crixus8000 : That's some solid advice! I went to the extreme with tankiness and then back but if you lack damage, your pressure can be so low that they needn't defend and can just wittle you down eventually. People keep saying heavy armour is best for 1v1 but I suffer in heavy. Maybe more heavy attacks! The rest of you advice will take practice. Like spotting the squishy. I know that they often do lots of dmg so getting rid of them because they have no defence is good. Honestly, I can't see people's burst coming for the life of me. :( Animation cancelling is cool but for PvP, it's a terrible thing. Can't block what you can't see. Also, I love your name! ;-)

    @brandonv516 : Stamsorc deffo good in BG's but I don't know how to check my MMR so couldn't tell you where I am ^_^



    Yeah your set up is definitely a kill set up in BG's if you have a premade that's how you should run a stam sorc. But, you're not going to ever perform well against a premade group with that setup if you're on a PUG squad in BG's.

    It's also not a 1v1 or 1v2 set-up. Probably need to get rid of 7th Legion and put on a defensive set. But in reality what you should do is just use WW with your set-up. WW is so overpowered right now and you're already running bleeds, you'll just destroy anyone as soon as you go WW form in a 1v1 and even a 1v2.

    God they really destroyed PVP with Murkmire.
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Think the most important part about 1vx is knowing if you can 1v2 your opponents, if you possibly can or if you can’t at all.
  • barshemm
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    I mainly play CP. So not sure how much of this translates to non-CP.

    The main challenge with stam sorc is its hard to do damage, especially burst. As a stam sorc you're dropping dawnbringer/onslaught and then your execute and you don't have anything to line up with that burst. Stam sorc has no source of major or minor fracture unless you go 1hs (further lowering your damage) or run night mothers gaze. Pair up with a nightblade for example and suddenly you're crushing.

    Add do it, dark deal is our trick to sustain. Bad players complain about it, good players realize it's at least 2 ticks we aren't doing active damage and not blocking. To even begin to get decent stam regen you're having to slot bound armaments and/or atro ult.

    Stam sorc is similar to stamblade, you need to use your mobility (like they use cloak) and time your burst and hit hard and get out hoping to get the kill. After you blow your ult try to execute but make sure you have enough resources to duck out reset. Usually when I die in a 1v1 its because I overextend trying to get the kill. Or its a DK and I've been stubborn about sticking with rally and I just literally get rooted to death.

    One suggestion, you might want to try heavy or even medium hunding or night mother gaze instead of 7th. The defensive bonus of 7th is nice but if you're struggling to kill people its just prolonging the fight. A set that consistently gives you damage that you don't have to wait to proc might be more helpful.

    I'm hoping they take a seriously look at stam sorc and help us out a bit. Murkmire with the overload and speed nerfs hurt a lot.
  • ChunkyCat
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    BGs are the Vet Maelstrom Arena of PvP.
  • IAVITNI
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    Hi Technohic

    Looks like we're in the same boat. Sometimes I go 15-2 in BG's but I suspect that's when I fight low-ranked players. I dunno why that happens. Sometimes my BG's are full of meta and big names and sometimes they're just a potato farm.

    I learned not to open with my burst but open with a stun, then sorta endure and sack their resources until they make a mistake, then drop Dawnbreaker and try to kill fast.

    Still, some people, mostly in 1v1 seem to have unlimited resources, deal big damage and are very tanky. Against that, I'm clueless. Emphasis on seem. Likely, they actually don't.

    Do you have any clips?

    If I had to assume, I'd say you're not used to constant pressure since you usually run in a group. You need around a minimum 80% uptime on vigor in a 1v1/1vx. Failing to have Vigor ticking is asking to get bursted. You should be relying more on Vigor and Surge heals to keep you alive rather than roll dodge despite the fact that you are in medium. Only roll dodge the big hits like ultimates, merciless, frags or to disrupt a combo etc. Your Vigor should be strong enough to let you face tank +1 opponent so long as you are more skilled. Past that, always have a LoS plan. This also means that sustain is more important, so heavy attack as much as you can.

    Vigor tooltip is SUPER important. Try to aim for 15k in CP, I don't build for non-CP but I'd assume the difference would put the desired tooltip to around 13.5-14k.

    Weave heavy attacks for sustain. Melee stamina builds tend to throw in a heavy every few rotations so take that into account when facing them. Magicka is a little different.

    Think of a duel/1vx as vMA. What can you kill, what can't you kill. What needs to go down asap etc. For 1v1, what damage can you take etc. I'm sure you do this for BGs group play but in a 1v1 vs a good opponent you literally need to count the seconds between ultimates and the number of light attacks a night blade has done etc.

    Beyond the above, you'd have to be more specific. What aspects of what class do you struggle against.

    And dw, nightblades are just ridiculous strong right now. I'm a magsorc main and I've had more success on a stamblade this patch. With shield nerfs, Cloak takes the place as number 1 most overloaded defensive skill in the game. Once that gets nerfed BoL will also heal enemies and wings will no longer reflect but increase mounted movement speed but will still dismount on cast.
  • Ultimate_Overlord
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    @Aedrion
    1. Hard to say this without sounding like a jerk, but your build is nonsensical and suboptimal.
    7th? On a bow build? In medium? With no defensive sets/protective other than tk? With low hp regen and no 2h? Might as well go hundings cause that will result in much more dmg due to your build being way too unsynergistic with 7th. (No, dont do that, hundings is bad too)
    Bone pirate is a terribly overrated set. The value the set provides with its bonuses isnt really higher than what youd get from other top tier sets, but it also come with a downside of having to use bad food (dubious is strictly worse than artaeum and still some builds would want to run purple food/orzorga over artaeum), made even worse in no cp cause hp regen is incredibly strong there.
    You have no magicka sustain, which is important for solo pvp on a stam sorc.
    No master dw? You get about 350 dps from it on average just for pressing 1 button - for a one-barrable 2 piece, thats very hard to beat.
    (Warning: controversial subject)
    Id say that 99% of the time using medium on a stam sorc is strictly wrong. Medium offers higher speed (stam sorc is already fast, in fact, a sprinting orc stam sorc, with minor and major expedition already hits the speed cap), better out of fight sustain (dark deal already covers that) and roll cost reduction (fine, that bonus is good). On the other hand, heavy gives you passive defense (actually synergistic with sorc cause you need it when dark dealing) and better magicka sustain (you have great magicka skills and magicka translates into stam sustain anyway). Heavy is much more synergistic with sorc than medium is, solo pvp is about using strong sets and synergies to cover the needs of your class and making a consistent build that is capable of dealing with many different situations, not flash roleplay.
    Suggestions:
    Get rid of bone pirate, use master dw.
    If you want a very good build, go heavy and drop the bow. 2h/dw - troll king, master dw backbar, viper frontbar with willows/7th on the body, steed mundus and artaeum/orzorga is one of the best no cp builds.
    If you really want to stay medium, the build above with willows and orzorga is solid.
    2. In organised groups your job is to do just 1 thing your build is meant to do, you dont have to worry about overextension or self-sufficiency. In a small group, if you fail - the group fails, but its a lot harder to fail in a group than it is solo, and if your group is large enough you can just get carried for the most part. But whatever, point is that solo is very different and generally much more demanding than group pvp.

    TLDR: everything is terrible and holy **** thats a huge wall of text
  • technohic
    technohic
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    @Aedrion
    1. Hard to say this without sounding like a jerk, but your build is nonsensical and suboptimal.
    7th? On a bow build? In medium? With no defensive sets/protective other than tk? With low hp regen and no 2h? Might as well go hundings cause that will result in much more dmg due to your build being way too unsynergistic with 7th. (No, dont do that, hundings is bad too)
    Bone pirate is a terribly overrated set. The value the set provides with its bonuses isnt really higher than what youd get from other top tier sets, but it also come with a downside of having to use bad food (dubious is strictly worse than artaeum and still some builds would want to run purple food/orzorga over artaeum), made even worse in no cp cause hp regen is incredibly strong there.
    You have no magicka sustain, which is important for solo pvp on a stam sorc.
    No master dw? You get about 350 dps from it on average just for pressing 1 button - for a one-barrable 2 piece, thats very hard to beat.
    (Warning: controversial subject)
    Id say that 99% of the time using medium on a stam sorc is strictly wrong. Medium offers higher speed (stam sorc is already fast, in fact, a sprinting orc stam sorc, with minor and major expedition already hits the speed cap), better out of fight sustain (dark deal already covers that) and roll cost reduction (fine, that bonus is good). On the other hand, heavy gives you passive defense (actually synergistic with sorc cause you need it when dark dealing) and better magicka sustain (you have great magicka skills and magicka translates into stam sustain anyway). Heavy is much more synergistic with sorc than medium is, solo pvp is about using strong sets and synergies to cover the needs of your class and making a consistent build that is capable of dealing with many different situations, not flash roleplay.
    Suggestions:
    Get rid of bone pirate, use master dw.
    If you want a very good build, go heavy and drop the bow. 2h/dw - troll king, master dw backbar, viper frontbar with willows/7th on the body, steed mundus and artaeum/orzorga is one of the best no cp builds.
    If you really want to stay medium, the build above with willows and orzorga is solid.
    2. In organised groups your job is to do just 1 thing your build is meant to do, you dont have to worry about overextension or self-sufficiency. In a small group, if you fail - the group fails, but its a lot harder to fail in a group than it is solo, and if your group is large enough you can just get carried for the most part. But whatever, point is that solo is very different and generally much more demanding than group pvp.

    TLDR: everything is terrible and holy **** thats a huge wall of text

    How you getting 15k tooltip on vigor with willows, 7th, troll king and heavy? How high recovery do you have?

    And I'm not sure hunding is bad. I run bloodspawn, Cyrodiil ward, ravager on a templar in medium and I'm close to 15k unbuffed and I'm using BS over TK for just a little more recovery. I can replace ravager for hunding and have a little more damage full time without a proc, and a little more crit. Of course stamplar is different than sorc. I'm not using much magic other than ER
  • Aznox
    Aznox
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    Lots of things have already been said but :
    - BG is about positioning, awareness, making the most of what matchmaking gives you, and build
    - Duel is about build, and build execution
    - 1vX is about picking your fights, choosing your opponents, adapting your strategy on the fly, and build

    To progress in BG/1vX you need to think and understand why each fight/match was lost/won, with time this will help you take better decisions.

    To win more duels against skilled opponents, you need to equip a stronger build and master it.


    technohic wrote: »
    How you getting 15k tooltip on vigor with willows, 7th, troll king and heavy? How high recovery do you have?

    In Heavy Armor and with enough Health Regen (Troll King, Atreum food, Steed, Major Fortitude, Orc/Khajiit), Crit Surge, Dark Deal and Lingering Health potions, you don't even need to slot Vigor on a Stamsorc.

    Edited by Aznox on December 14, 2018 3:46PM
    Aznox
    PC EU
    Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
    I live in Battlegrounds
    Theorycrafting enthusiast
    Official Cheese Lord
    CP1500+ club
  • Trancestor
    Trancestor
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    Don't expect to 1vx non potatoes in no CP pvp
  • idk
    idk
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    OP has the power to nerf cloak in their own hands.,

    Choosing to not use any of the counters to cloak is just that.

    I enjoy pulling NBs out of cloak and watching them wither and die. The counters work very well.
  • brandonv516
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    idk wrote: »
    OP has the power to nerf cloak in their own hands.,

    Choosing to not use any of the counters to cloak is just that.

    I enjoy pulling NBs out of cloak and watching them wither and die. The counters work very well.

    Yes StamSorc with DW has probably the best tools in the game to counter cloak and should be the last class to be complaining about the skill in my opinion.

    I main a MagNB and fear and hate playing against StamSorc.

    It just so happens to be very popular in Xbox NA BGs too sometimes seeing 3 on a team. That my friends is just a stupid match for a MagNB.
  • Aedrion
    Aedrion
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    Plenty of valuable feedback was given. I can't address you all but I'd like to thank everybody for your replies.

    I deduct that several key changes to my build are required. While I don't have Master's Weapons (and since I loahte PvE, I shan't get them), golden food or play an orc, I will make the possible changes based on your feedback.

    - Trying out Heavy Armour with a setup that sustains well enough and has plenty of HP regen.
    - Use the Steed Stone (Already did and my mobility is noticeably better)
    - Not pair 7th legion with bow but use 2h weapon with Forward Momentum
    - Pick my fights by trying to nuke the weakest target first and slotting a spammable. (Using Bloodthirst atm for many heals)
    - Use speed, Hurricane and Caltrops to ward off NB's and avoid their burst.

    Some more meta changes suggested are appreciated but I feel like the effort required doesn't compare to the benefits given.
    I don't play all that often and prefer using my ingame time to do what I like. :)

    Cheers!

  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    You have hurricane. There’s no better counter to cloak. What’s the issue? Reading the post it just sounds like maybe you’re getting higher and higher MMR, and while sometimes you’re getting matched against lower players, the rest of the time you’re being pitted against skilled players who know what they’re doing. As you go up the MMR ladder there is a much higher concentration of good players, unlike open world PvP where you’re running into primarily bad players. That said, in BGs, stamblades have the best single target damage out out no questions asked. And they can afford to build a bit tankier and let their skills bring the damage. Your build is fine, and with troll king and crit surge/hurricane heals aren’t your problem. It just sounds like you need more practice. 1vX is really hard to learn and it takes time and dedicated practice to get it to click. Playing in a group takes the pressure off and makes it super easy to kill other groups with less skill. Alone you have to manage your heals, resources and damage output. No ones there to cover your back.

    Kind of unrelated it’s funny when people get all salty at 1vXers because they “only fight people worse than them.” Well duh that’s the only fight anyone wins lol. Cyrodiil is full of people fighting others that are worse, the only difference is they bring a group to do it.
    Edited by Vapirko on December 15, 2018 1:31AM
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    If anything stamsorc has an easier time against nightblades due to hurricane breaking cloak.
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