New skins lore breaking?

TiZzA93 · December 2018

Are the 2 xan meer skins lore breaking? Zos say they follow lore based on what bethesda allow well why do i see lizards of all other races. Yes other skins can b lore breaking BUT alot of them r put down as spells, tattoos, magical markings, BUT xan meer skins nope they real from description

tactx · December 2018

You're totally right. ZOS completely forgot about lore and as a result of your post these skins will only be allowed on lizards and everyone else just loses their gems that they spent on them...

Luigi_Vampa · December 2018

It is an MMO. Fun stuff trumps lore and immersion. It is the price of sharing the world.

TiZzA93 · December 2018

I bought both skins with gems after buying alot of crates too and i would b more than happy for them to disable the skins on other races better yet just have orange paint for bright throat with no blue for non argonians and some strips of dead water leather for that 1 on non argonians

Chicharron · December 2018

im not a lore guy.

But mounts are ridiculous, but hey as long as it is written in a book with the most ridiculous explanation the lore guys will be happy.

My wife play TERA and use this "mount".

Soon in ESO.

Konstant_Tel_Necris · December 2018

No, they are not here is argonians from Arena, if I remember well Kirkbride say they were dunmers before.

Besides, you can roleplay it as some sort of alteration skin magic, like dragonhide in Skyrim.

Edaphon · December 2018

*** the lore!

Kanar · December 2018

Bright throat skin could easily be makeup or an illusion spell. How is it lore breaking?

The skins in general break immersion, like fabrication sheath, Sanctified Silver and Amber plasm. If those ones can exist in the game, then nothing wrong with bright throat.

Bigger problem is garish color outfits, stupid mounts and costume pieces like fedoras and cowboy hats. That *** is immersion breaking.

TheShadowScout · December 2018

Kanar wrote: »

Bright throat skin could easily be makeup or an illusion spell. How is it lore breaking?

...and that's pretty much the fluff behind -every- skin.
Illusion!

No lore breakage here, its all just illusion, honest!

Kanar wrote: »

Bigger problem is garish color outfits, stupid mounts and costume pieces like fedoras and cowboy hats. That *** is immersion breaking.

Eh.
People did have garish color outfits too, you know. Well, not everyday people, but... some. Nobles who could afford the dyes. Performers who needed to be flashy for entertainment purposes. Jarlaxle of Bregan D'aerthe because... uhm... well... reasons?

Mounts? Those are a bit marginal, some of them anyhow, but... eh. Mages being mages, so one can expect them to magic up some wierd shi... stuff.

Fedoras and cowboy hats are not that strange, really, even in mediavel-ish setting, it IS a different world after all, and it is concievable that someone over there came up with a hat idea that we in this world had at a later time period. Though I am still hoping for many, many more hats to come!

Claudman · December 2018

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

No, they are not here is argonians from Arena, if I remember well Kirkbride say they were dunmers before.

Besides, you can roleplay it as some sort of alteration skin magic, like dragonhide in Skyrim.

lol
That's not canon anymore and Kirkbride is never a reliable source of information. Kirkbride just wanted to make the Dunmer sound amazing yet again, just like how the Dunmer are the only race that survives the arrival of the Numidium during his headcanon. I love Dunmer, but I don't love them nearly as much as Kirkbride did...Probably because he wrote them and wanted to make them Mary/Gary Sues. Good thing he didn't tarnish them.

But, what you can do for those scaled Argonian skins that would be actually lore-friendly is make a Daedra. Regardless of people stating that "Argonians aren't always lizards", they're never shown as human-faced in things other than Arena and Arena is barely canon... (It's an old game guys) @TiZzA93

Besides that, it's a skin in an MMO. Usually it's not going to be canon or lore-friendly...Because it's a SKIN...In an MMO. Human-faced Argonians simply aren't canon anymore, within good reason...They're REALLY uncanny and if you really want to know what I mean when I say that...Put the Dead-Water skin on an Elf.

Karmanorway · December 2018

What do you mean? Multicolored alien elfs have always been a part of the lore xD

BWS2K · December 2018

I'm back from studying this issue intently with an entire team composed of an alliance representing all races of Tamriel and we now have conclusive scientific evidence that switching your skin to one of those featured is 703% less immersion-breaking than NPCs dying in an RPG because you can't persuade them because you didn't join a guild.
#science
Finally found a link - WARNING: SPOILERS for Main Quest end-content.

idk · December 2018

Zos is not going to limit the skins to one race, especially after they release it. None of the skins are race restricted in any manner. While I understand some might be upset about perceived or actual lore issues, some common sense is needed here.

Acrolas · December 2018

The lore only told me to not get it wet, no bright lights, and don't feed it after midnight.

Not what would happen if I did.

myskyrim26 · December 2018

An MMO game can't be totally lore-friendly. The skins are amazing, a lot of people want them. But imagine: they are race-bound, and only Argonian can wear them. The forum would have exploded with posts like "It is unfair - my main is Dwemer and I want to wear this skin - give me my money back!!!11"

SpiderKnight · December 2018

By next year, ESO will probably have motorbikes and jets. These skins though, they really need to be restricted to Argonian race, there are other cosmetics that are race-bound.

Kimda · December 2018

My dark elf argonian love this dark skin, it hides ugly vampire very well

Kartalin · December 2018

Kimda wrote: »

My dark elf argonian love this dark skin, it hides ugly vampire very well

It does? Awesome, good to know! #soverypale

TelvanniWizard · December 2018

Edaphon wrote: »

*** the lore!

Sadly that´s what ZOS thinks.

Kimda · December 2018

Kartalin wrote: »

Kimda wrote: »

My dark elf argonian love this dark skin, it hides ugly vampire very well

It does? Awesome, good to know! #soverypale

Stage 4 Dark Elf vampire

Alchemical · December 2018

Claudman wrote: »

Regardless of people stating that "Argonians aren't always lizards", they're never shown as human-faced in things other than Arena and Arena is barely canon...

Human-faced Argonians simply aren't canon anymore, within good reason...They're REALLY uncanny and if you really want to know what I mean when I say that...Put the Dead-Water skin on an Elf.

I would consider myself somewhat an expert on Argonian lore, so don't mind me throwing my two cents in here, but in the canon put forth by Murkmire, Argonians can pretty much look like anything.

According to the newest Lore Q&A, The Parable of Becoming says that The Hist admired the forms of elves and men, and so raised up the 'useful lizards' and gave them similar forms. So Argonians were, in fact, made to imitate the appearance of men and mer.

In both parts of the Q&A Jee-Lar emphasizes how much the Hist influences not just the culture but the appearance of the Argonians. Notably, he says that even though he is a Bright-Throat his colors are dim because he is away from the Hist, but states he becomes more colorful when he comes home to Black Marsh. He also says that "Argonians are adaptable-by-induction to their Hist’s gloor." Does this not imply that the Hist still hold an immense amount of control over Argonian appearances?

In the book 'Tribes of Murkmire: Bright-Throats' an Argonian elder asserts there are as many Argonian tribes as there fireflies in Black Marsh, which is to say, a lot. We can readily observe that there is not just a cultural but physical difference between the Naga-Kur and other Argonians we've seen, with their fish-like heads. There are also literally countless other unknown and unobserved tribes, including the Sarpa which are described as having wings.

So if Argonians can look like fish, or like birds, or like crocodiles, or like frogs, or the even like dinosaurs (the Behemoths), then it is not only possible but probable there are Argonians that look more similar to men or mer or even khajiit.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2018

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Bright throat skin could easily be makeup or an illusion spell. How is it lore breaking?

...and that's pretty much the fluff behind -every- skin.
Illusion!

No lore breakage here, its all just illusion, honest!

Kanar wrote: »

Bigger problem is garish color outfits, stupid mounts and costume pieces like fedoras and cowboy hats. That *** is immersion breaking.

Eh.
People did have garish color outfits too, you know. Well, not everyday people, but... some. Nobles who could afford the dyes. Performers who needed to be flashy for entertainment purposes. Jarlaxle of Bregan D'aerthe because... uhm... well... reasons?

Mounts? Those are a bit marginal, some of them anyhow, but... eh. Mages being mages, so one can expect them to magic up some wierd shi... stuff.

Fedoras and cowboy hats are not that strange, really, even in mediavel-ish setting, it IS a different world after all, and it is concievable that someone over there came up with a hat idea that we in this world had at a later time period. Though I am still hoping for many, many more hats to come!

It would be illusion or it could be really powerful Alteration (or an alchemical/enchantment version of the same)...

Konstant_Tel_Necris · December 2018

Claudman wrote: »

lol
That's not canon anymore and Kirkbride is never a reliable source of information. Kirkbride just wanted to make the Dunmer sound amazing yet again, just like how the Dunmer are the only race that survives the arrival of the Numidium during his headcanon. I love Dunmer, but I don't love them nearly as much as Kirkbride did...Probably because he wrote them and wanted to make them Mary/Gary Sues. Good thing he didn't tarnish them.

If you refer to C0DA, I believe there were more races who survived Landfall, not only dunmers, but that's unrelated to topic.

Claudman wrote: »

But, what you can do for those scaled Argonian skins that would be actually lore-friendly is make a Daedra. Regardless of people stating that "Argonians aren't always lizards", they're never shown as human-faced in things other than Arena and Arena is barely canon... (It's an old game guys) @TiZzA93

Actually we have example of such magic, during questing in Shadowfen you can encounter so called Skin-Stealer Dominion mage who flay enemy and then wear they skin as ultimate disguise, and he actually used daedric knowledge to achieve such feat.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Trail_of_the_Skin-Stealer

Claudman wrote: »

They're REALLY uncanny and if you really want to know what I mean when I say that...Put the Dead-Water skin on an Elf.

Done, I want to know what you mean.

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Works well on my dunmer DK, I will roleplay it as dragonhide spell from Skyrim.

SydneyGrey · December 2018

I thought the Bright-Throat coloring was just that tribe painting their bodies bright colors. It fits in nicely with lore, since ZOS is the one who creates the lore to begin with.

SHADOW2KK · December 2018

Well ZoS created the lore, so it is up to them what they do, it is their game.

sharquez · December 2018

There are more important things to worry about. Like lag, performance Issues, data breaches, etc. Besides its magic. They and gotta explain it.

Minyassa · December 2018

In a fantasy world with this much magic and known instances of people using it to alter their bodies, I'm not judging. What you do with magic and your body is between you and your daedric prince. Just please go to a clean, licensed magic parlor to have it done.

Claudman · December 2018

@Alchemical

Yeah, I'm an expert on Argonian lore as well and currently there is no lore evidence regarding human-faced argonians, there is no reason for them either. Of what subtype looks like humans? The Paatru? No. The Sarpa? No. Even the Archein who are reminiscent of Dunmer? No.
Often the theme is that they have to be akin to that of an animal of a reptilian, amphibian or avian tree primarily as established as lore currently...Unless we are discussing the dark trees of Umbriel who prefer their symbiotic species to be insects, those odd Umbrielians. Arena is not a credible source of lore, it is outdated. Even in the Elder Scrolls: Legends which includes a large variety of Argonian subtypes in the cards as well as Khajiit, there is a general lack of 'human-faced Argonians'. They simply do not exist currently and are as debatable as the current appearance of Ohmes-Raht or Ohmes (considering they also haven't been seen since Daggerfall or Arena and have only been mentioned in book). Are we to take everything in game appearance as canon though? What of Morrowind compared to Arena, Daggerfall, Oblivion and Skyrim where Argonians hadn't had breasts suddenly in Morrowind? You can explain the digitigrade nature, but the rest the body was jarringly different and was never acknowledged again in future titles.

As long as there is no lore currently regarding human-faced Argonians besides Arena or the proclamations of Kirkbride, I'm going to have to give the notion a hard no. Especially considering if we're talking on an artistic standpoint other than a lore or logical standpoint, a human-faced and human-looking Argonian is downright uncreative and boring. Lol

Until then, I'll leave the idea to Lawrence Schick or the other writers of Zenimax studios to canonize such an idea or not.

The faces looks like Thundercats. Eeeugh...

@Konstant_Tel_Necris
Yeah. Khajiit survived too. Gross. C0da is the epitome of awful fanfiction writing

Also that still looks uncanny.

Perwulf · December 2018

Look to the left

Now look to the right

Scythe_Mercer · December 2018

The skins do look ugly and uncanny on ANYTHING other then Argonians. Watch people defend the idea of putting them on anything else with the “rule of cool”

MLGProPlayer · December 2018

It's 100% lore-accurate.

There is quest in the game where a low-level mage from the Mages Guild turns Razum Dar into Queen Ayrenn. Then there is quest in Coldharbour where another low ranking mage turns you into a monkey to bypass some debris. Any semi-competent mage in the TES universe can cast an illusion spell that changes a person's appearance into anything they desire, including giving them scales.