Too much negativity toward the ZOS’ Dev team

_Salty_ · December 2018

Abigail wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

The complaints are valid. The devs worry more about cosmetic micro transactions then combat balance, bug fixes and fixing lag.

I'm curious, when you guys talk about "devs," are you referring to the corporate suits who are concerned with ROI, or the studio-level managers and employees who have to meet schedules and budgets?

I lump everyone involved from top to bottom. At my work if my upper management asks me to do something that I believe will hurt overall profitability or provides a lesser product to a client I make it known that I disagree with the decision and provide reasons to justify my opinion.

You don't have to be a boss to be a leader.

DaveMoeDee · December 2018

Miswar wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

So does complaining about persistent performance issues in PVP count as a "legitimate complaint" or not?

Because I assure you, they sure havent addressed those yet.

People should complain about that. But the hyperbole gets old fast. Some people are clearly overwhelmed with anger and can't help but spew over-the-top bile.

Does ignoring that ie. PvP performance issues for few years now give development team "free get out that critique" pass?

Go check alliance forums etc which are buried somewhere in these forums. Tell us than how much of the complaints were taken seriously and how much fixes / comments / information did we recieve from the development team.

It wohn't be a long list at all.

Complaints were taken seriously. They just haven't been able to fix the problem.

Many PvPers are pissed because Cyrodiil performance sucks and they want someone to be angry with. It doesn't matter what ZOS does, apart from improving performance. More communication (which some gamers like to claim would appease them) wouldn't make a difference, because the anger will still be there and people will still lash out. If you spent the time to check the alliance forums you would also see many responses where they discussed investigations into performance and changes that ended up not fixing the issues.

There have been plenty of "fixes." The problem is that often these "fixes" don't seem to actually substantially improve the the core performance issues they are trying to improve (assuming public opinion is accurate). Then again, even if they improve performance, there are those who will still go ballistic about the less frequent but still there server meltdowns.

I find the complaint that performance was better a few years ago and it is worse now to be compelling, if objectively true. I remember performance issues long ago, but other people here have played a lot more PvP than me and can better judge these things. I feel ZOS needs to address that complaint -- is it accurate, and if so, what changed and what aspects can be rolled back or not rolled back. It does seem from their past comments that they have implicitly admitted they either still haven't figured out a feasible way to not avoid prime-time meltdowns.

I can appreciate people being pissed that ZOS may be leading them on when ZOS already knows that they can't fix Cyrodiil meltdowns but don't want to say it because they fear too many people will leave. Transparency is only beneficial when their is a path to remedy what you are revealing. While I can empathize, it doesn't make certain people any less toxic when they are trying to deal with frustration or disappointment.

deLioncourt · December 2018

Yeah but they deserve the negativity.

Asys · December 2018

Not enough negativity. Hope people continue so z$s might listen one day

wenchmore420b14_ESO · December 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

In short go play Eve for a year and read their forums. Go play on their test server, read the dev blogs, check out their reddit. That is a dev team that cares managed by people who care who work for a company that cares.

Customer service is stellar over at CCP. I spent 2 hours navigating in circles for customer service here and finally went to the BBB and managed to get an email address of some VP or something who i sent an email and within minutes i had people that who were so eager to help me i thought they was going to drive to my house.

Eve the bugs are all fixed ASAP. They hotfix stuff rather than just let it go. If a patch harms the game, they roll back the patch and fix the patch then roll out the corrected version. Not just say oh well and move on to trying to sell me reskinned mounts and houses for insane prices.

Eve's dev team actually interacts with players, sometimes in person. They have round tables with their customers, ZOS doesnt even know what a round table( in this context) is. And you wont find a ZOS dev anywhere. Not a single post on the forums from anyone but Gina and people of a similar position. All you get here is a PR wall.

CCP makes Zenimax look like a bunch of high school kids when it comes to professionalism and quality of work. But what do you expect? The quality of TES games have went down since about TES III. IV started the slide down but V went right off a cliff with quality. ESO over the last 18 months or so has become horrible with the problems and lack of balance and the nerf wrecking balls, and knee jerk over reactions from ZOS.

I really wish they would sell ESO to CCP that would be my dream.

Actually they do! ^^^^ Or, did...
It was called the Council of Nirn Roundtable..(I think that was the name). It was around at launch and lasted several years. It was made up of GM's of the largest guilds and active players and would communicate with Zos every month or so. Anyone a member here know if it is still a thing???

wenchmore420b14_ESO · December 2018

ezio45 wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Bring back the konkle

glad someone else is thinking this.....

+1

marius_buys · December 2018

Dudes take a chill pill and get out of the perfect game bubble, if there is an issue report it, end of story. Be happy that ZOS is putting time effort and dedication into the game looong after its release.

Rain_Greyraven · December 2018

Yeah maybe there is too much negativity..... but a good bit of it Zenimax brings on themselves.

SHADOW2KK · December 2018

marius_buys wrote: »

Dudes take a chill pill and get out of the perfect game bubble, if there is an issue report it, end of story. Be happy that ZOS is putting time effort and dedication into the game looong after its release.

You must be new here..

Grimm13 · December 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I find the complaint that performance was better a few years ago and it is worse now to be compelling, if objectively true. I remember performance issues long ago, but other people here have played a lot more PvP than me and can better judge these things. I feel ZOS needs to address that complaint -- is it accurate, and if so, what changed and what aspects can be rolled back or not rolled back. It does seem from their past comments that they have implicitly admitted they either still haven't figured out a feasible way to not avoid prime-time meltdowns.

I can appreciate people being pissed that ZOS may be leading them on when ZOS already knows that they can't fix Cyrodiil meltdowns but don't want to say it because they fear too many people will leave. Transparency is only beneficial when their is a path to remedy what you are revealing. While I can empathize, it doesn't make certain people any less toxic when they are trying to deal with frustration or disappointment.

A few years ago we had less people playing ESO. With the recently discovered and ZOS Confirmed issue of the Guild Roster being a source of lag and unnecessary server load, you can see how adding more people will make a greater problem.

It's like an onion. You have to peel away the biggest layer of trouble to see the smaller ones covered by the outer layer. I'm hoping that the coming fix will see a nice impact on performance for the positive. Also that ZOS will review and find all other issues that contribute as well.

If you have no clue what I am talking about... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/448084/psa-a-simple-trick-to-help-reduce-lag

I have to give ZOS props for quickly and publicly responding to the issue. It's a positive that should not go unnoticed. It's a hopeful sign that things are a changing.

Elsonso · December 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Complaints were taken seriously. They just haven't been able to fix the problem.

There have been plenty of "fixes." The problem is that often these "fixes" don't seem to actually substantially improve the the core performance issues they are trying to improve (assuming public opinion is accurate). Then again, even if they improve performance, there are those who will still go ballistic about the less frequent but still there server meltdowns.

I find the complaint that performance was better a few years ago and it is worse now to be compelling, if objectively true. I remember performance issues long ago, but other people here have played a lot more PvP than me and can better judge these things. I feel ZOS needs to address that complaint -- is it accurate, and if so, what changed and what aspects can be rolled back or not rolled back. It does seem from their past comments that they have implicitly admitted they either still haven't figured out a feasible way to not avoid prime-time meltdowns.

What is interesting from my perspective is that performance is not better or worse than it was years ago. It is pretty much the same. It is just different in how it presents. I get a lot fewer desyncs, rubberbanding, skill lockouts, and sudden loading screens, but I have more problems with failure to log in and disconnections while swapping characters. FPS and latency is largely the same for me. One drops. One spikes. Latency average the same now as it was before, adjusted for location and megaserver.

The difference is mainly due to ZOS fiddling around, but my impression is that they stopped doing that about a year ago. Except for the guild roster thing, which I think many can agree is a situation that is well out in left field with the flowers. Who knows when this guild thing was introduced. This could have been in the game from the start, or it could have been introduced in any update or patch. Recent or long ago.

People talk about peeling the onion, which I think Rich introduced a couple years back. My main comment on that subject is that it is a good analogy, since both are making people cry.

Also, if they are still peeling that same onion, they are either really slow about it, or that is one damn huge onion.

ezio45 · December 2018

.

marius_buys wrote: »

Dudes take a chill pill and get out of the perfect game bubble, if there is an issue report it, end of story. Be happy that ZOS is putting time effort and dedication into the game looong after its release.

Its an incredibly successful mmo, mmo's arnt one and done releases. If they werent working on it there would be an issue

marius_buys · December 2018

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Dudes take a chill pill and get out of the perfect game bubble, if there is an issue report it, end of story. Be happy that ZOS is putting time effort and dedication into the game looong after its release.

You must be new here..

Ok perhaps your sarcasm was meant as a joke but in light of the topic allow me to clarify:

If "new here" means having played 7500hrs in ESO since One Tamriel alone (mostly in Vivec) and also running an established guild then so be it BUT your reply does not negate my point.

Learn to calm down son, you're not bigger than the game.

As an ex-Angolan Bush War vet I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that in war, as in life, there are ways of dealing with imperfect situations and that attacking your higher echelon personel in their personal capacity not only does NOT work or solve the problem in any way but also demotivates and uoset that particular individual whoever they may be.

I can honestly say that whenever I have dealt with ZOS on a one on one level they have gone above and beyond what was needed to solve the issue even when I was at fault.

I have been inactive until recently because if I cannot contribute to the solution I generally do not try to ad to it with exasperated complaints.

However when you start attacking a relatively small dev team in their person I DO think it may be relevant for me to say TAKE A CHILL PILL son, you're not helping.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · December 2018

marius_buys wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

Dudes take a chill pill and get out of the perfect game bubble, if there is an issue report it, end of story. Be happy that ZOS is putting time effort and dedication into the game looong after its release.

You must be new here..

Ok perhaps your sarcasm was meant as a joke but in light of the topic allow me to clarify:

If "new here" means having played 7500hrs in ESO since One Tamriel alone (mostly in Vivec) and also running an established guild then so be it BUT your reply does not negate my point.

Learn to calm down son, you're not bigger than the game.

As an ex-Angolan Bush War vet I can tell you with a high degree of certainty that in war, as in life, there are ways of dealing with imperfect situations and that attacking your higher echelon personel in their personal capacity not only does NOT work or solve the problem in any way but also demotivates and uoset that particular individual whoever they may be.

I can honestly say that whenever I have dealt with ZOS on a one on one level they have gone above and beyond what was needed to solve the issue even when I was at fault.

I have been inactive until recently because if I cang contribute to the solution I generally do not try to ad to it with exasperated complaints. However when you start attacking a relatively small dev team in their person I DO think it may be relevant for me to say TAKE A CHILL PILL son, you're not helping.

Yes, you are correct in as there are a few who like to "call out" dev's in a negative way, but.....

The people at ZoS are not our higher echelon. They are a company that has sold us a product which we in turn make up their customer/ base. We are consumers, not soldiers.

Had we taken a chill pill, we would still be setting our alarm to make trader bids at 5A.M.
We would still have our bids accessible to spies in the guild.
We would not have numerous changes that you have seen in this game since launch and in beta if it wasn't for the feedback from the 'Consumers/ Community" here in forums, & during live streams with comm mgrs and dev's, & bug reports, closed beta forums, etc.
Take a look at the "Dev Tracker" threads and see how many times Matt or Rich or Finn or the "upper echolon" respond and communicate with us.. ( or they used to).

Video games are dependent on a fan base. Most here are TES fans and are the "Elder Scrolls Community". Bethesda was BUILT off its fan base. They created the name "Akatosh" as a tip of the hat to a Bethesda Forum user in early days of Arena and Daggerfall.
This whole franchise is built on its fans and community.
For us NOT to communicate our feelings is a disservice to the company and the advancement of, and improvement of this game, (product), that we love.
Just my 2 drakes...
Huzzah!

Kilnerdyne · December 2018

Bug reports go into a black hole.
Combat balance changes over the years look like they were decided by cutting off a chicken's head & seeing which square it died in.
PvP Performance. They don't play their own game, otherwise this would have been fixed.
Crown store updates & new Crown crates are the vast majority of news updates.
Occasional Copy+Paste replies to the same problems they've had since the game launched.

Hire more staff or retire the game. Leaving it as a broken wallet-vacuum will only hurt the games you want to push in the future.