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If other people and minor issues are such an inconvenience to you, why do you even play the game?
-
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.
Eh, we know there's a generation "divide".... which I must say I don't personally have with our children and grandchildren; or my sister and BIL and their son and his wife; or our very good friends who are a decade and more younger than us - but which does occur with my brother and his wife who are only a couple of years younger than I am.... works for me, I have zero use for them anyway.
The issue seems to be that some people think "oldsters" shouldn't play games? I dunno, really.... I started playing RPGs in the mid-70s, DMing PnP AD&D for my daughter and her jr high school friends. Got my first computer in 1984, got my first CRPG in 1985. CRPGs were - a revelation and a blessing - 'cause when the kids all go off to college....
But really, the bottom line seems sometimes to be ageist. Kind of weird.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
As a 69 year old baby boomer, that has piqued my curiosity, also!Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Wow. Whew. I'm a baby boomer. I'll be 71 this month. I don't do fb or twitter or any other social media crap. I don't need to parade the inconsequential details of my life for anyone. In fact, I really rather abhor the whole thing.... social media I mean. I think it should be wiped off the internet....
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
Ageist?
Lol, yeah who keeps shaking their heads at “millennials” for every single thing. The only reason why there is a generation argument in this thread is because people just jump to “blame entitled millennials” for every last thing and if that isn’t the definition of ageist then I don’t know.
No one is “too old” to play video games, that isn’t even why it was brought up. It was brought up because the first thing “certain types” of people jump to is “lol you want something, must be an entitled millennial”. But hey, if there is any group of people who are skilled in turning a conversation about one thing into a conversation about themselves it’s.... guess.... wait for it.... baby boomers.
Not one of the people who admitted to being baby boomers said anything about "blaming entitled millennials". And it wasn't we 'boomers' who turned this into a conversation about ourselves..........it was the person who made the rude remark about us. The OP's post is about people being nicer to each other........try it sometime.
See this?I think one word sums it up. Millennials. That is what I think it is about.BomblePants wrote: »
Both of these are on page one.
Patronize to the instigators.
Edited by max_only on December 4, 2018 5:34AM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I can’t afford a sense of humor. I spent it all on avocados.
#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom3 -
Hippie4927✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.
Eh, we know there's a generation "divide".... which I must say I don't personally have with our children and grandchildren; or my sister and BIL and their son and his wife; or our very good friends who are a decade and more younger than us - but which does occur with my brother and his wife who are only a couple of years younger than I am.... works for me, I have zero use for them anyway.
The issue seems to be that some people think "oldsters" shouldn't play games? I dunno, really.... I started playing RPGs in the mid-70s, DMing PnP AD&D for my daughter and her jr high school friends. Got my first computer in 1984, got my first CRPG in 1985. CRPGs were - a revelation and a blessing - 'cause when the kids all go off to college....
But really, the bottom line seems sometimes to be ageist. Kind of weird.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
As a 69 year old baby boomer, that has piqued my curiosity, also!Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Wow. Whew. I'm a baby boomer. I'll be 71 this month. I don't do fb or twitter or any other social media crap. I don't need to parade the inconsequential details of my life for anyone. In fact, I really rather abhor the whole thing.... social media I mean. I think it should be wiped off the internet....
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
Ageist?
Lol, yeah who keeps shaking their heads at “millennials” for every single thing. The only reason why there is a generation argument in this thread is because people just jump to “blame entitled millennials” for every last thing and if that isn’t the definition of ageist then I don’t know.
No one is “too old” to play video games, that isn’t even why it was brought up. It was brought up because the first thing “certain types” of people jump to is “lol you want something, must be an entitled millennial”. But hey, if there is any group of people who are skilled in turning a conversation about one thing into a conversation about themselves it’s.... guess.... wait for it.... baby boomers.
Not one of the people who admitted to being baby boomers said anything about "blaming entitled millennials". And it wasn't we 'boomers' who turned this into a conversation about ourselves..........it was the person who made the rude remark about us. The OP's post is about people being nicer to each other........try it sometime.
See this?I think one word sums it up. Millennials. That is what I think it is about.BomblePants wrote: »
Both of these are on page one.
Patronize to the instigators.
But do you know if they are baby boomers? I don't know their age. Do you?PC/NA/EP ✌️0 -
Abigail✭✭✭✭✭@max_only
The irony, for me anyway, is I'm pretty sure I've never used the M-word in writing or speaking. I had to do a lookup to see what Baby Boomer and Millennial meant, with respect to specific age.
Classifying someone as entitled by virtue of their age alone denies their individual circumstances completely. Moreover, if we want to look at generations, not one -- ever -- is without its failures, triumphs, and tragedies, not even the Greatest one.
If my bit of jest constituted an offense, I apologize.2 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Before you read: This is not a complaint about the state of the game or those complaining about the state of the game.
This is a complaint about toxic players expressing unnecessary hate and intent to harm mostly new or inexperienced players who don't deserve such behavior.
Last but not least: this includes players who choose to be toxic in general towards others because of questionable reasons such as "boredom" or "problems" which MIGHT be stemming from the game's current state as described below.
Hence why toxic approach from my side as well. I don't belive disrespect deserves respect. Thanks for understanding.
Lately I've been seeing an increased number of complaints and topics in which people complain and swear at numerous absolutely normal things in a fashion that would make a psychiatrist roll their eyes.
I'm of course talking about "issues" such as (but not limited to): other players, incompence, dungeons taking too long, low dps of new players, inability to magically "understand" mechanics, "wrong" race, "wrong" gear, boredom, events being "bland", content being "easy", etc., etc., etc........ AND THE NEWEST: "PUG Dungeon Skipping Exploit"
So my question here is: Why in the oblivion do you even play this game if everything and everyone seems to be such a problem or an obstacle that (quote) "Holds YOU back"? Why are you here? Why are you complaining, why don't you make or join a guild if you can't deal with other people being "below you"?
A very short example: "Waaahh wahhh event takes too long to get my tickets I need em omg I'll kms if I don't... You all suck, this dungeon sucks, get out of my way I must have my ticket cause reasons.".... Soooo... Let's *** on everyone else trying to do it, let's be as selfish as possible and let's make everyone feel miserable? What the actual crap, people....
Are you such an addict to the game that you'll participate in something but you can't spend extra 30 minutes to get something you want so bad with other people? That you can't be a little bit more considerate? Legitimate question: what's the point of playing a game you hate so much? Why would you choose to spend your time doing something you don't enjoy??? I mean WHAT?
Please learn to respect other people, respect their time, their efforts, their skill gaps... Or Like I've said above: go join a guild of like-minded people and stop plaguing what once used to be an amazing, extremely helpful and friendly community full of wonderful, happy and respectful people.
Stop acting like a narcissistic sociopath in this game. It's enough World of Warcraft is full of them nowadays. No wonder even blizzard started banning for toxicity and disrespect. Isn't it ridiculous? We're all people. Learn some sense of respect, love, humor, and most importantly: HOW TO HAVE FUN WITH OTHERS.
You're not a better more godly person if you just so happen to be a higher tier raider. You eat drink sleep pee and poop like all of us, and you'll die one day as well. Try to be a little bit more considerate for others. We're all in this together, it's not just you!!! Stop being an inconsiderate fool of an elitist and learn to live for others a bit more. You're only making yourself look bad.
-end rant
PS: Honestly if any of this here applies to you, you should go take a break or find a therapist. I'm serious. It's really not okay to complain like this, let alone punish and make other players feel miserable because of your own personal problems or issues, or whatever the reason might be.
Firstly, sorry for derailing with the “generation” discussion. It just grinds my gears when people carelessly toss out buzzwords that don’t mean anything.
Secondly, I can’t relate op. I joined a great guild for loners and soloists who sometimes need help. Before that I never kicked anyone or complained about “lack of skill”. In fact I only play support classes until recently when I leveled up a dd on a whim (double exp event). I have so many tanks and I’m very patient when it comes to running content. Most of the people I’ve met IN GAME are actually considerate of others’ time. With a little communication I get through group finder smoothly.
It’s only on the forums are you seeing people who are inconsiderate and rude. The forums is a small but loud group of players, and they aren’t indicative of the in game population.
In game people aren’t complaining overland is too easy.
In game people are running the normal dungeon the finder gives them (as long as they feel confidentj. Changing to Maj’s pledge when you get slotted into Fang Lair has to be a group decision and so far that has been my experience.
In game people are incredibly helpful.
In game no one is kicking for Bosmer Templars or what ever combination as long as the content gets done.
I suggest staying out of the General Forums during events, that’s when all the hubbub happens.Edited by max_only on December 4, 2018 6:01AM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
fatmanatcomp✭✭✭People who make a point about other people’s opinions and the way they act,are just acting themselves giving their opinion.
It’s all relative. Everything in life is just a circle.0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭fatmanatcomp wrote: »People who make a point about other people’s opinions and the way they act,are just acting themselves giving their opinion.
It’s all relative. Everything in life is just a circle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwH9YvhPN7c
See this?
Both of these are on page one.
Patronize to the instigators.
Welp, thanks for reminding me who I should disregard forever on the forums from page 1. People whose first jump is toward generational slander are people who have no input worth considering on any issue. This 47 year-old Gen Xer is pretty damned tired of this bullkitten.
On the one hand, it's pretty damned irritating to read. On the other, it's a great litmus test.Before you read: This is not a complaint about the state of the game or those complaining about the state of the game.
This is a complaint about toxic players expressing unnecessary hate and intent to harm mostly new or inexperienced players who don't deserve such behavior.
Last but not least: this includes players who choose to be toxic in general towards others because of questionable reasons such as "boredom" or "problems" which MIGHT be stemming from the game's current state as described below.
Hence why toxic approach from my side as well. I don't belive disrespect deserves respect. Thanks for understanding.
This really isn't an improvement, TBH. Respect, like empathy, or like any other communal behavior is a two-way street. You're not going to gain respect for your views by withholding it from others. Instead you become the example you despise and the toxicity continues to spread.
Shame-- a couple of pages back, I had high hopes. Now, as always, I retreat to bitter, private cynicism.Edited by jainiadral on December 4, 2018 12:05PM1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »fatmanatcomp wrote: »People who make a point about other people’s opinions and the way they act,are just acting themselves giving their opinion.
It’s all relative. Everything in life is just a circle.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwH9YvhPN7c
See this?
Both of these are on page one.
Patronize to the instigators.
Welp, thanks for reminding me who I should disregard forever on the forums from page 1. People whose first jump is toward generational slander are people who have no input worth considering on any issue. This 47 year-old Gen Xer is pretty damned tired of this bullkitten.
On the one hand, it's pretty damned irritating to read. On the other, it's a great litmus test.Before you read: This is not a complaint about the state of the game or those complaining about the state of the game.
This is a complaint about toxic players expressing unnecessary hate and intent to harm mostly new or inexperienced players who don't deserve such behavior.
Last but not least: this includes players who choose to be toxic in general towards others because of questionable reasons such as "boredom" or "problems" which MIGHT be stemming from the game's current state as described below.
Hence why toxic approach from my side as well. I don't belive disrespect deserves respect. Thanks for understanding.
This really isn't an improvement, TBH. Respect, like empathy, or like any other communal behavior is a two-way street. You're not going to gain respect for your views by withholding it from others. Instead you become the example you despise and the toxicity continues to spread.
Shame-- a couple of pages back, I had high hopes. Now, as always, I retreat to bitter, private cynicism.
I can't be respectful and empathetic towards such behaviour. I physically cannot. The ridiculous things I've seen during my time here changed me to the point where I simply cannot. No matter how hard I try, apparently, the end result is always bad. At least it shows how fed up I am I suppose.
With that being said... I'm not here to gain respect or act like I'm better, act like I'm smarter or whatever you have. Why would I even want to gain respect or want to be a better example? I'm here to make a point, bring up a current problem and share my feelings about it. I honestly couldn't care less if people respected me for it or not, if people gave me points or not.
As long as people see the issue and make some effort at changing it or contribute towards a healthier community, I'm happy. Stone me to death if it pleases you. If people have the ability to think for themselves, then I do not need to be here anymore.
And to think this whole issue isn't even something I face myself since I'm a meta player. I just hate seeing noobs being treated like crap by people who once long time ago also used to be noobs... But look at all these stupid arguments. People hop on this thread for the sole reason of bashing, even if in a passive aggressive style, to get reactions. If this doesn't speak values then I don't know what does.
I think I'm a pretty stupid, average and quite pathetic person, but even I can see this. Not to mention how people often preach intelligence, yet they themselves operate on a level more primitive than that of a savage beast.
TL;DR: it's not respect I desire, it's understanding of the issue.Edited by Nyladreas on December 4, 2018 1:03PM0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jainiadral wrote: »fatmanatcomp wrote: »People who make a point about other people’s opinions and the way they act,are just acting themselves giving their opinion.
It’s all relative. Everything in life is just a circle.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwH9YvhPN7c
See this?
Both of these are on page one.
Patronize to the instigators.
Welp, thanks for reminding me who I should disregard forever on the forums from page 1. People whose first jump is toward generational slander are people who have no input worth considering on any issue. This 47 year-old Gen Xer is pretty damned tired of this bullkitten.
On the one hand, it's pretty damned irritating to read. On the other, it's a great litmus test.Before you read: This is not a complaint about the state of the game or those complaining about the state of the game.
This is a complaint about toxic players expressing unnecessary hate and intent to harm mostly new or inexperienced players who don't deserve such behavior.
Last but not least: this includes players who choose to be toxic in general towards others because of questionable reasons such as "boredom" or "problems" which MIGHT be stemming from the game's current state as described below.
Hence why toxic approach from my side as well. I don't belive disrespect deserves respect. Thanks for understanding.
This really isn't an improvement, TBH. Respect, like empathy, or like any other communal behavior is a two-way street. You're not going to gain respect for your views by withholding it from others. Instead you become the example you despise and the toxicity continues to spread.
Shame-- a couple of pages back, I had high hopes. Now, as always, I retreat to bitter, private cynicism.
I can't be respectful and empathetic towards such behaviour. I physically cannot. The ridiculous things I've seen during my time here changed me to the point where I simply cannot. No matter how hard I try, apparently, the end result is always bad. At least it shows how fed up I am I suppose.
With that being said... I'm not here to gain respect. Why would I even want to gain respect? I'm here to make a point, bring up a current problem and share my feelings about it. I honestly couldn't care less if people respected me for it or not, if people gave me points or not.
As long as people see the issue and make some effort at changing it or contribute towards a healthier community, I'm happy. Stone me to death if it pleases you. If people have the ability to think for themselves, then I do not need to be here anymore.
And to think this whole issue isn't even something I face myself since I'm a meta player. I just hate seeing noobs being treated like crap by people who once long time ago also used to be noobs... But look at all these stupid arguments. People hop on this thread for the sole reason of bashing, even if in apassive aggressive style, to get reactions. If this does speak values then I don't know what does.
I think I'm a pretty stupid, average and quite pathetic person, but even I can see this.
When you adopt a hostile tone and try to shame people into decent behavior, all you do is breed the opposite. You build a backlash against you and you increase the divide between you and your target. The people you want to hear your point won't. They'll hear hostility and disrespect and they won't give your point any credence, assuming they actually take note of it at all. The previous pages are full of that dynamic, if you take a step back and try to examine it at least a little bit objectively.
If you want conditions to improve, you have to improve your tactics. Otherwise, you're just making the situation worse. I'm not even talking about personal feelings-- which are honestly irrelevant if you're trying to accomplish a goal. Listening only to your feelings and venting them is like tossing gasoline onto a small fire. That isn't going to result in anyone behaving any better. If anything, it'll do the exact opposite.
You don't need to have emotional empathy to engage in a little cognitive empathy. Take a step back from your feelings and take a look at what's actually happening here in this thread. Values are irrelevant here. What you want is a practical change in behavior, and that starts with tone raised in your initial post.
I say this as a casual, solo player who hates the way high-end players treat those of less skill. Frankly, it sticks in my craw pretty hard. And when it starts sticking there too much, I take a break and back off. This is a video game, and getting that wound up over it is just going to ruin your day. <--Learned that one from dealing with quest ninja-ing in SWTOR.Edited by jainiadral on December 4, 2018 1:03PM2 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »Also, it seems from your post that this is quite stressful for you - maybe it would be a good idea to take a break from the forum if it's bothering you that much that you felt you needed to make a topic about it. Maybe come back after the event when things are likely to have died down a bit.
False assumption yet again, I'm here after weeks. And I haven't logged in the game for weeks until today. Actually highlights the newborn toxicity even further.
One would expect to come back to the game one used to love. But instead is faced by something different.
Also, I especially love the way you said "if you felt you needed to make a topic about it." So being vocal and caring about what used to be a lovely friendly place which turned into a hostile hell is now a sign of stress and imbalance? What world do we all live in...
But you're being hostile in the way you're posting. This doesn't encourage friendliness-- instead you're doing the opposite.
You claim to do this out of caring, yet you fail to see that a lot of complaints and requests for impovement on these forums come from that same base motivation. People are passionate about the game and want it to impove. They might be frustrated or angry, but the expression comes from a place of love. When the frustration dies and silence follows, that's when a community is lost.
A little empathy on your end couldn't hurt.
This argument is basically like saying "you should tolerate my intolerance". It is not the same thing to insult players because they don't live up to your standards and to call out rude, entitled players. OP wasn't hostile, it was factual. I've seen everything described there and worse since coming back from my 2-year break.
You may think that if it all comes from your "passion" for the game then it's all good, but it's not. People really need to take a step back and go over basic rules of decency and respect when meeting other people. If people behaved IRL as they do in-game, they would have been slapped in the face a few dozen times.0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jainiadral wrote: »Also, it seems from your post that this is quite stressful for you - maybe it would be a good idea to take a break from the forum if it's bothering you that much that you felt you needed to make a topic about it. Maybe come back after the event when things are likely to have died down a bit.
False assumption yet again, I'm here after weeks. And I haven't logged in the game for weeks until today. Actually highlights the newborn toxicity even further.
One would expect to come back to the game one used to love. But instead is faced by something different.
Also, I especially love the way you said "if you felt you needed to make a topic about it." So being vocal and caring about what used to be a lovely friendly place which turned into a hostile hell is now a sign of stress and imbalance? What world do we all live in...
But you're being hostile in the way you're posting. This doesn't encourage friendliness-- instead you're doing the opposite.
You claim to do this out of caring, yet you fail to see that a lot of complaints and requests for impovement on these forums come from that same base motivation. People are passionate about the game and want it to impove. They might be frustrated or angry, but the expression comes from a place of love. When the frustration dies and silence follows, that's when a community is lost.
A little empathy on your end couldn't hurt.
This argument is basically like saying "you should tolerate my intolerance". It is not the same thing to insult players because they don't live up to your standards and to call out rude, entitled players. OP wasn't hostile, it was factual. I've seen everything described there and worse since coming back from my 2-year break.
You may think that if it all comes from your "passion" for the game then it's all good, but it's not. People really need to take a step back and go over basic rules of decency and respect when meeting other people. If people behaved IRL as they do in-game, they would have been slapped in the face a few dozen times.
The OP has significantly changed the initial post, so most of the stuff that you see on the first couple of pages doesn't make much sense in current context. The original post referenced a couple of things that looked like they related to people's attitudes toward ZoS, game performance, and the engineering of events like Undaunted and CWC. In short, a lot like the standard complaining about the complaining that you see on a lot of forums around various games.
Since the OP's objectives have been clarified, said post no longer applies in the same way. Though the core complaint on my part-- the OP's hostile tone-- hasn't changed at all. I'm not willing to go back and retro-edit, however.3 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »jainiadral wrote: »Also, it seems from your post that this is quite stressful for you - maybe it would be a good idea to take a break from the forum if it's bothering you that much that you felt you needed to make a topic about it. Maybe come back after the event when things are likely to have died down a bit.
False assumption yet again, I'm here after weeks. And I haven't logged in the game for weeks until today. Actually highlights the newborn toxicity even further.
One would expect to come back to the game one used to love. But instead is faced by something different.
Also, I especially love the way you said "if you felt you needed to make a topic about it." So being vocal and caring about what used to be a lovely friendly place which turned into a hostile hell is now a sign of stress and imbalance? What world do we all live in...
But you're being hostile in the way you're posting. This doesn't encourage friendliness-- instead you're doing the opposite.
You claim to do this out of caring, yet you fail to see that a lot of complaints and requests for impovement on these forums come from that same base motivation. People are passionate about the game and want it to impove. They might be frustrated or angry, but the expression comes from a place of love. When the frustration dies and silence follows, that's when a community is lost.
A little empathy on your end couldn't hurt.
This argument is basically like saying "you should tolerate my intolerance". It is not the same thing to insult players because they don't live up to your standards and to call out rude, entitled players. OP wasn't hostile, it was factual. I've seen everything described there and worse since coming back from my 2-year break.
You may think that if it all comes from your "passion" for the game then it's all good, but it's not. People really need to take a step back and go over basic rules of decency and respect when meeting other people. If people behaved IRL as they do in-game, they would have been slapped in the face a few dozen times.
The OP has significantly changed the initial post, so most of the stuff that you see on the first couple of pages doesn't make much sense in current context. The original post referenced a couple of things that looked like they related to people's attitudes toward ZoS, game performance, and the engineering of events like Undaunted and CWC. In short, a lot like the standard complaining about the complaining that you see on a lot of forums around various games.
Since the OP's objectives have been clarified, said post no longer applies in the same way. Though the core complaint on my part-- the OP's hostile tone-- hasn't changed at all. I'm not willing to go back and retro-edit, however.
Fair enough, I didn't read the same version of the OP as you and there may well have been significant differences.
I'm not interested in sweeping statements or blaming this or that generation. I simply think, as I believe OP did as well, that there is a huge level of toxicity that isn't being addressed anywhere. People are being abusive and disrespectful in record numbers.
ESO isn't each player's private playground - this is a place where you meet (and possibly play with) other people. And many players don't seem to realize that. Consider this: I was doing some dungeon recently and, as I always do, I greeted everyone in the group before starting - nobody replied. Later during the dungeon, after someone had made a bossy demand, I remarked that if they could type in chat to boss people around, they could have replied when I said "Hi". Response: I don't know you, why should I greet you?
I don't know or care if this is a generation thing - to me, it's a matter of politeness and decency. I'm not a resource at your disposal to get you what you want. I'm a person who enjoys online games. If you won't treat me with a minimum of respect, you won't have mine. This episode and similar ones have happened time and time again, especially during the poorly-designed and poorly-functioning events ZOS has had recently. I have more respect for OP's rant, however poorly expressed, than I have for the entitlement and narcissism currently plaguing the game.Edited by daemonios on December 4, 2018 3:01PM0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jainiadral wrote: »jainiadral wrote: »Also, it seems from your post that this is quite stressful for you - maybe it would be a good idea to take a break from the forum if it's bothering you that much that you felt you needed to make a topic about it. Maybe come back after the event when things are likely to have died down a bit.
False assumption yet again, I'm here after weeks. And I haven't logged in the game for weeks until today. Actually highlights the newborn toxicity even further.
One would expect to come back to the game one used to love. But instead is faced by something different.
Also, I especially love the way you said "if you felt you needed to make a topic about it." So being vocal and caring about what used to be a lovely friendly place which turned into a hostile hell is now a sign of stress and imbalance? What world do we all live in...
But you're being hostile in the way you're posting. This doesn't encourage friendliness-- instead you're doing the opposite.
You claim to do this out of caring, yet you fail to see that a lot of complaints and requests for impovement on these forums come from that same base motivation. People are passionate about the game and want it to impove. They might be frustrated or angry, but the expression comes from a place of love. When the frustration dies and silence follows, that's when a community is lost.
A little empathy on your end couldn't hurt.
This argument is basically like saying "you should tolerate my intolerance". It is not the same thing to insult players because they don't live up to your standards and to call out rude, entitled players. OP wasn't hostile, it was factual. I've seen everything described there and worse since coming back from my 2-year break.
You may think that if it all comes from your "passion" for the game then it's all good, but it's not. People really need to take a step back and go over basic rules of decency and respect when meeting other people. If people behaved IRL as they do in-game, they would have been slapped in the face a few dozen times.
The OP has significantly changed the initial post, so most of the stuff that you see on the first couple of pages doesn't make much sense in current context. The original post referenced a couple of things that looked like they related to people's attitudes toward ZoS, game performance, and the engineering of events like Undaunted and CWC. In short, a lot like the standard complaining about the complaining that you see on a lot of forums around various games.
Since the OP's objectives have been clarified, said post no longer applies in the same way. Though the core complaint on my part-- the OP's hostile tone-- hasn't changed at all. I'm not willing to go back and retro-edit, however.
Fair enough, I didn't read the same version of the OP as you and there may well have been significant differences.
I'm not interested in sweeping statements or blaming this or that generation. I simply think, as I believe OP did as well, that there is a huge level of toxicity that isn't being addressed anywhere. People are being abusive and disrespectful in record numbers.
ESO isn't each player's private playground - this is a place where you meet (and possibly play with) other people. And many players don't seem to realize that. Consider this: I was doing some dungeon recently and, as I always do, I greeted everyone in the group before starting - nobody replied. Later during the dungeon, after someone had made a bossy demand, I remarked that if they could type in chat to boss people around, they could have replied when I said "Hi". Response: I don't know you, why should I greet you?
I don't know or care if this is a generation thing - to me, it's a matter of politeness and decency. I'm not a resource at your disposal to get you what you want. I'm a person who enjoys online games. If you won't treat me with a minimum of respect, you won't have mine. This episode and similar ones have happened time and time again, especially during the poorly-designed and poorly-functioning events ZOS has had recently. I have more respect for OP's rant, however poorly expressed, than I have for the entitlement and narcissism currently plaguing the game.
LOL Believe me, I agree with you. I don't agree that the rant helps change anything for the better, however. I hate seeing people shoot themselves in the foot instead of making a positive difference. I've seen enough of that recently-- especially in 2016
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max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hippie4927 wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.
Eh, we know there's a generation "divide".... which I must say I don't personally have with our children and grandchildren; or my sister and BIL and their son and his wife; or our very good friends who are a decade and more younger than us - but which does occur with my brother and his wife who are only a couple of years younger than I am.... works for me, I have zero use for them anyway.
The issue seems to be that some people think "oldsters" shouldn't play games? I dunno, really.... I started playing RPGs in the mid-70s, DMing PnP AD&D for my daughter and her jr high school friends. Got my first computer in 1984, got my first CRPG in 1985. CRPGs were - a revelation and a blessing - 'cause when the kids all go off to college....
But really, the bottom line seems sometimes to be ageist. Kind of weird.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
As a 69 year old baby boomer, that has piqued my curiosity, also!Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Wow. Whew. I'm a baby boomer. I'll be 71 this month. I don't do fb or twitter or any other social media crap. I don't need to parade the inconsequential details of my life for anyone. In fact, I really rather abhor the whole thing.... social media I mean. I think it should be wiped off the internet....
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
Ageist?
Lol, yeah who keeps shaking their heads at “millennials” for every single thing. The only reason why there is a generation argument in this thread is because people just jump to “blame entitled millennials” for every last thing and if that isn’t the definition of ageist then I don’t know.
No one is “too old” to play video games, that isn’t even why it was brought up. It was brought up because the first thing “certain types” of people jump to is “lol you want something, must be an entitled millennial”. But hey, if there is any group of people who are skilled in turning a conversation about one thing into a conversation about themselves it’s.... guess.... wait for it.... baby boomers.
Not one of the people who admitted to being baby boomers said anything about "blaming entitled millennials". And it wasn't we 'boomers' who turned this into a conversation about ourselves..........it was the person who made the rude remark about us. The OP's post is about people being nicer to each other........try it sometime.
See this?I think one word sums it up. Millennials. That is what I think it is about.BomblePants wrote: »
Both of these are on page one.
Patronize to the instigators.
But do you know if they are baby boomers? I don't know their age. Do you?
It doesn’t matter how old they are. I am on defense (admittedly aggressive defense) and I get told to “be nice”, while instigators and aggressors get ignored or worse, praised. It’s not on me. It doesn’t matter anyway. The point is not which generation is worse, the point I was making is that blaming everything on “entitled millennials” is nonsense.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Hippie4927✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hippie4927 wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.
Eh, we know there's a generation "divide".... which I must say I don't personally have with our children and grandchildren; or my sister and BIL and their son and his wife; or our very good friends who are a decade and more younger than us - but which does occur with my brother and his wife who are only a couple of years younger than I am.... works for me, I have zero use for them anyway.
The issue seems to be that some people think "oldsters" shouldn't play games? I dunno, really.... I started playing RPGs in the mid-70s, DMing PnP AD&D for my daughter and her jr high school friends. Got my first computer in 1984, got my first CRPG in 1985. CRPGs were - a revelation and a blessing - 'cause when the kids all go off to college....
But really, the bottom line seems sometimes to be ageist. Kind of weird.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.
Yeah, I was gonna weigh in on that, but figured my post would disappear soon after.doc_ketamine wrote: »Oh damn! You done did it now. The Greatest Generation's kids are a-comin' for you!
Seriously, don't poke the bear when it comes to older folks. We know a million ways to make you look ... immature.Hippie4927 wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
As a 69 year old baby boomer, that has piqued my curiosity, also!Sylvermynx wrote: »We are a generation of 160 characters and 30 second Snapchats.
Everyone wants everything done without any effort.
Don't kid yourself. If twitter and snapchat were around when the worst generation {aka Baby Boomers) were around you would see some stuff, let me tell you. Baby boomers have been flocking to Facebook, look what it has become.
Wow. Whew. I'm a baby boomer. I'll be 71 this month. I don't do fb or twitter or any other social media crap. I don't need to parade the inconsequential details of my life for anyone. In fact, I really rather abhor the whole thing.... social media I mean. I think it should be wiped off the internet....
Worst generation. Interesting statement. Why is that, in your world view?
Ageist?
Lol, yeah who keeps shaking their heads at “millennials” for every single thing. The only reason why there is a generation argument in this thread is because people just jump to “blame entitled millennials” for every last thing and if that isn’t the definition of ageist then I don’t know.
No one is “too old” to play video games, that isn’t even why it was brought up. It was brought up because the first thing “certain types” of people jump to is “lol you want something, must be an entitled millennial”. But hey, if there is any group of people who are skilled in turning a conversation about one thing into a conversation about themselves it’s.... guess.... wait for it.... baby boomers.
Not one of the people who admitted to being baby boomers said anything about "blaming entitled millennials". And it wasn't we 'boomers' who turned this into a conversation about ourselves..........it was the person who made the rude remark about us. The OP's post is about people being nicer to each other........try it sometime.
See this?I think one word sums it up. Millennials. That is what I think it is about.BomblePants wrote: »
Both of these are on page one.
Patronize to the instigators.
But do you know if they are baby boomers? I don't know their age. Do you?
It doesn’t matter how old they are. I am on defense (admittedly aggressive defense) and I get told to “be nice”, while instigators and aggressors get ignored or worse, praised. It’s not on me. It doesn’t matter anyway. The point is not which generation is worse, the point I was making is that blaming everything on “entitled millennials” is nonsense.
I agree with you that blaming everything on "entitled millennials" is nonsense. I just didn't understand why you felt the need to bash another group (baby boomers) in order to make that point. Each individual should be judged by their own actions and not lumped in with some stereotype. No hard feelings on my part.
PC/NA/EP ✌️1 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know ..
Most of the compainers actually enjoy the game very much.
problem is, it's uncool to say "I love this" .. brooding and complaining, on the other end, allows one to pass for a "special someone, unlike any other".
Also, people sometime considers that admitting to love something is akin to admitting a weakness ..
Kind in a "death-is-cool" emo-gothy way.
So, it boils down to : they play the game, because they love it .. they complain because they are ashamed to admit it0 -
mayasunrising✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »This thread is so original and has never been brought up before. So many original thoughts and ideas.
This comment only proves I'm right. It's a current problem, and as such should be brought up.
You don't have to be original to make a point.
I 100% agree with the OP.
I would translate that first response to the OP as "My wise mind knows the OP's right, but oh my gosh I know I'm one of those people who makes this game toxic, and I can't internally deal with that, so I'll cut the OP down and make them think THEY'RE the problem instead. BWAHAHAHA! PWN. So many clevers. So much awesomes."
If you hate the game and it's players so much, stop paying your ESO+ account, log out, and uninstall. Done and done.
Edited by mayasunrising on December 4, 2018 9:09PM"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ♥ Anaïs Nin
“There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." ♥ Amanda Palmer
“A game is an opportunity to focus our energy, with relentless optimism, at something we’re good at (or getting better at) and enjoy. In other words, gameplay is the direct emotional opposite of depression.” ♥ Jane McGonigal
“They'll tell you you're too loud, that you need to wait your turn and ask the right people for permission. Do it anyway." ♥ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez3 -
mayasunrising✭✭✭✭✭Relative deprivation.
Go play SWTOR for a year then come back here and tell us how bad this game is.
"I know that a lot of people get murdered in [insert mildly murdery city you're currently in here] and you think it's awful, but go to [insert even murderyer city here]. It's like a zillion times more murderyer. You 'll come back here and be grateful that we only have x number of murderers to deal with, and you'll see murder is not so bad!"
coughcoughnahcoughcough. How about if the murderers just stop being murdery? Cause the non-murderers; we're the majority. And we say murder is not cool. So stop or get out."And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ♥ Anaïs Nin
“There’s a difference between wanting to be looked at and wanting to be seen." ♥ Amanda Palmer
“A game is an opportunity to focus our energy, with relentless optimism, at something we’re good at (or getting better at) and enjoy. In other words, gameplay is the direct emotional opposite of depression.” ♥ Jane McGonigal
“They'll tell you you're too loud, that you need to wait your turn and ask the right people for permission. Do it anyway." ♥ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez3
