Do we need 'inspection' option in interaction menu ?

WrathOfInnos · December 2018

Hoolielulu wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When I saw this thread I didn’t think I cared. Now all the negative responses are making me really curious what gear people are wearing that is such a big secret.

Speaking for myself it's not about secrets. It's about avoiding being silently judged - and possibly rejected - on a build that works for me.

If it works then there shouldn’t be an issue. I try all kinds of crazy builds, usually in vet trial score runs, and never get any complaints. I must have been one of the first on the server to gold out a set of Willpower jewelry long after it was considered a dead set.

If anything I think seeing players perform well with unusual gear would help promote build diversity. Many “meta builds” are not applicable to various situations. But people tend to follow them like a religion.

zaria · December 2018

max_only wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Omg noob you aren’t wearing Briarheart and Hundings???? Lol dude the almighty website of builds has BH and Hundies for every stam dps class lolololol

Yeah... no.

Meta is poison. Sure Meta brings the most on the table but the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option isn't really that far behind.

I agree. It’s like Slimecraw, Sellistrix, Kraghs, Toothrow, Night Terror and Vipers don’t even exist.

If it’s not for trials.... who cares what gear another person is wearing. And if it is for trials people usually ask to make sure they aren’t doubling up on sets unnecessarily (no double Ebon for example).

Sorry OP, back to the drawing board for that idea.

My totally favorite set in the game is VO, no its not good for long parses on boss and I don't need it if healer give shards or orbs.
But for easier content its idiotic fun, its important to have high uptime on vigor then doing random normals for the event

And yes more focus on the second tire sets. Most builds just focus on either trial or beginner builds.
Also an cp 160 tank or healer would want an more selfish set than an max cp.

RebornV3x · December 2018

NO no to the no I always hated a inspect option I don't want any player to know what I'm wearing unless they ask( granted I do screenshot what i wear from time to time and I rarely stream ESO and my main is a mag sorc so theirs like 5 sets at most to wear since the class has been so pigeoned holed into only one or two play styles) so its not hard to find out but still they have to dig for it.

Secondly I wouldn't mind a biography page since many MMOs have that also a inspect option that shows people the STYLE of the gear there wearing cause I see a lot of fancy people and I'm "like wow what are they wearing they look so cool" but never an option to show people my gear or stats beyond the normal like my HP, MP, SP, CP level and guild affiliation

ZeroXFF · December 2018

I think it would be great, people could see what the people doing well are wearing and it might give them food for thought for their future builds.

As for PvP concerns, yeah, people would be able to see what you're wearing - pretty much like it was before the introduction of outfits, when you couldn't hide axes behind mace graphics and heavy armor behind a robe or vice versa. This was the very concern brought up by PvPers back when it was about to be introduced.

ESO devs and a huge chunk of the community in general seem to hate any kind of information being available...
- Inspection? Nope.
- How your DPS relates to others? Nope, go figure it out by yourself.
- Global pricing info or even an AH? No, the trader system is "unique" and not at all predatory and hostile towards new players.

When I was new to the game, I remember how hard it was for me to figure out what I'm supposed to do once I started caring about my performance, because as a solo player just questing and doing random dungeons I had no point of reference, and even when I asked for help from players that seemed to know what they were doing, I was getting only some superficial advice that barely made any difference. This lack of information that is so vehemently defended here on the forums is part of the reason there are so many players that think that their 10k DPS at CP600+ are good enough to queue for vFH and then also try and activate hm on last boss after being carried that far. Giving people the tools to improve themselves would make everyone better off.

And "toxicity" is just a scapegoat. I played WoW for about 7 years (TBC-MoP), all this information was available there, and yet nobody complained about these specific things creating any "toxicity". The only complaint that came close was about the gear score addon, but that's exactly the kind of reductionist number that CP is in ESO, and unsurprisingly it works exactly the same to initiate kicks.

Most people know very well that you can do well with non-meta gear, and if anything, this information would be used to try out new interesting setups when you see someone doing well with something uncommon.

AlienatedGoat · December 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

When I saw this thread I didn’t think I cared. Now all the negative responses are making me really curious what gear people are wearing that is such a big secret.

The meta in this game is the most poorly kept secret of all time.

It's also the most regurgitated and prolific.

Tan9oSuccka · December 2018

No. Destiny had this (maybe still does).

I remember being in raid parties, and them kicking people for not having the right gear.

Daedric_NB_187 · December 2018

xaraan wrote: »

FatFred wrote: »

Sometimes inspecting other player's gears was fun and satisfies my curiosity
also you could learn from experienced players ,see what gears setups they choose.

No. It's none of your business what I'm wearing or how I'm set up.

You can ask and I can decide if I want to answer - that should be the end of it.

edit: I also hate the whole lootspy crap. It's built into one of the mods I have and I don't activate it - I ask the group if they got something they would be willing to share and if they don't, then that's it. Just had a fight with another DPS in our guild the other day that spied I got a chestpiece they wanted when I was going to use it on my DPS (was currently tanking for the run) and they have had an attitude for a week and have gone out of their way to never share any other gear with me I've asked for that they offered to the group.

You are not entitled to anything from anyone else. Not gear. Not knowledge. You can ask and should be able to live with a negative answer.

Wow. I didn't even know that was a thing. I'm glad I'm on console.

Tan9oSuccka · December 2018

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

FatFred wrote: »

Sometimes inspecting other player's gears was fun and satisfies my curiosity
also you could learn from experienced players ,see what gears setups they choose.

No. It's none of your business what I'm wearing or how I'm set up.

You can ask and I can decide if I want to answer - that should be the end of it.

edit: I also hate the whole lootspy crap. It's built into one of the mods I have and I don't activate it - I ask the group if they got something they would be willing to share and if they don't, then that's it. Just had a fight with another DPS in our guild the other day that spied I got a chestpiece they wanted when I was going to use it on my DPS (was currently tanking for the run) and they have had an attitude for a week and have gone out of their way to never share any other gear with me I've asked for that they offered to the group.

You are not entitled to anything from anyone else. Not gear. Not knowledge. You can ask and should be able to live with a negative answer.

Wow. I didn't even know that was a thing. I'm glad I'm on console.

No doubt. What a nightmare that would be.

SpacemanSpiff1 · December 2018

no. my gear is none of anyone's business.

Taleof2Cities · December 2018

Xerikten wrote: »

only if i can block it

^This.^

It’s a great idea as long as players can toggle it on or off for themselves.

I don’t mind showing off my gear setup ... even if it’s the new Murkmire staff quest reward that’s level 50 but not scaled with CP.

Surak73 · December 2018

This option is here already: it is called "Ask the other player".

And the other player, on his side, as an option too, which is called "Reply or not".

You have an option, and you have an option, and you have an option: everyone has an option!...

Reverb · December 2018

I do not support player inspection in ESO. In my experience, inspection makes a game community more toxic and becomes a tool to be exclusionary towards new or casual players.

Or it just becomes a barrier to game play. I remember in other games it taking longer to complete the pre-raid inspection and pi$$ing contest than it did to actually run the raids. Let's not to that to ESO.

Competitive, end game ESO guilds have conversations and requirements for gearing and loadouts. If you're in one of those groups, your build, and every one else's will be open and transparent. If you're not competing at that level, people's gear just doesn't matter enough to introduce that level of judgement into pugs.

If you want to know about someone’s gear or build, ask them

SirAndy · December 2018

FatFred wrote: »

Do we need 'inspection' option in interaction menu?

Nö ...

whitecrow · December 2018

I catch anyone inspecting me and I'll smack them right into the next era!

starkerealm · December 2018

Facefister wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Omg noob you aren’t wearing Briarheart and Hundings???? Lol dude the almighty website of builds has BH and Hundies for every stam dps class lolololol

Yeah... no.

Meta is poison. Sure Meta brings the most on the table but the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option isn't really that far behind.

Honestly, sometimes, other options are superior. Meta just means that someone picked that set and decided to run with it as their build. Then people go, "oh, Alcast is using this, so clearly it must be the best possible option!" No, he picked it because it worked, it was fun, and it was the best option he looked at.

That goes for everyone publishing builds. I know they test their options, but it's not like they've gone through everything.

I mean, the weird realization when talking to them was, I'm in same place as a theory crafter. I'm looking for stuff that will work and won't put me into a stupor.

Now, there's choices that will be better for you, your build, and how you play. But, "META?" No. META is not an acronym for "most efficient tactic available," and if it was, and you used it in ESO, you'd be wrong. Meta comes from, "metagaming," and refers to the overall community's behavior in a game (doesn't even have to be an MMO.) If "everyone," ports to Fungal 1," that's the "meta." Nothing to do with your build, just how people play the game. Obviously, this doesn't mean you're good at the game, just that there is one approach which has been widely adopted.

So, "it's the meta," is a self-defeating approach to builds in a game that does, legitimately accommodate multiple playstyles.

There are a few sets I'll say are bad, but when it's, "you must run this or are trash?" The person making that claim is an idiot, and should be disregarded as such.

The community does not need ****heads in zone, who wander around policing other people's builds, to "help" them.

max_only · December 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I think it would be great, people could see what the people doing well are wearing and it might give them food for thought for their future builds.

Believe it or not, some people have figured out some weird cheese that borderlines an exploit and aren’t eager to share, like certain sets acting off of each other in a merry go round of procs

As for PvP concerns, yeah, people would be able to see what you're wearing - pretty much like it was before the introduction of outfits, when you couldn't hide axes behind mace graphics and heavy armor behind a robe or vice versa. This was the very concern brought up by PvPers back when it was about to be introduced.

Costumes have always been allowed in PvP and disguises used to be allowed too. Nothing quite like the first time one runs up to a former emperor who is wearing the slave disguise from Stros M’Kai.

ESO devs and a huge chunk of the community in general seem to hate any kind of information being available...
- Inspection? Nope.
- How your DPS relates to others? Nope, go figure it out by yourself.
- Global pricing info or even an AH? No, the trader system is "unique" and not at all predatory and hostile towards new players.

Don’t start with the auction house lol. I didn’t join a guild until cp 400 and I never hurt for gold, this was before crown store gifting as well (which I disavow). Tamriel Trade Center website gets you global pricing info.

When I was new to the game, I remember how hard it was for me to figure out what I'm supposed to do once I started caring about my performance, because as a solo player just questing and doing random dungeons I had no point of reference, and even when I asked for help from players that seemed to know what they were doing, I was getting only some superficial advice that barely made any difference. This lack of information that is so vehemently defended here on the forums is part of the reason there are so many players that think that their 10k DPS at CP600+ are good enough to queue for vFH and then also try and activate hm on last boss after being carried that far. Giving people the tools to improve themselves would make everyone better off.

I help strangers with builds and gear all the time. It’s too bad you didn’t meet more helpful people. Once I stayed behind on a dungeon just chatting to a new player for 10 minutes (almost as long as it took to do the dungeon lol) letting them know about making a build, how to build so it just takes a switch in armor to go from healing dungeons to burning through overland and world bosses. Furthermore our community has a ton of content creators who do a really great job of explaining.

And "toxicity" is just a scapegoat. I played WoW for about 7 years (TBC-MoP), all this information was available there, and yet nobody complained about these specific things creating any "toxicity". The only complaint that came close was about the gear score addon, but that's exactly the kind of reductionist number that CP is in ESO, and unsurprisingly it works exactly the same to initiate kicks.

Most people know very well that you can do well with non-meta gear, and if anything, this information would be used to try out new interesting setups when you see someone doing well with something uncommon.

-25 DKP for not remembering how restrictive raiding was in WoW

Edit: ahhh nostalgia

https://youtu.be/HtvIYRrgZ04

xaraan · December 2018

zaria wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Omg noob you aren’t wearing Briarheart and Hundings???? Lol dude the almighty website of builds has BH and Hundies for every stam dps class lolololol

Yeah... no.

Meta is poison. Sure Meta brings the most on the table but the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option isn't really that far behind.

I agree. It’s like Slimecraw, Sellistrix, Kraghs, Toothrow, Night Terror and Vipers don’t even exist.

If it’s not for trials.... who cares what gear another person is wearing. And if it is for trials people usually ask to make sure they aren’t doubling up on sets unnecessarily (no double Ebon for example).

Sorry OP, back to the drawing board for that idea.

My totally favorite set in the game is VO, no its not good for long parses on boss and I don't need it if healer give shards or orbs.
But for easier content its idiotic fun, its important to have high uptime on vigor then doing random normals for the event

And yes more focus on the second tire sets. Most builds just focus on either trial or beginner builds.
Also an cp 160 tank or healer would want an more selfish set than an max cp.

This x100. I love VO (hate they nerfed the speed buff you get after killing something though), it's not OP, but not underpowered. Great for almost any content. Only change out of it for end game raiding stuff pretty much at this point or for pvp.

idk · December 2018

While I have no issues with the notion, I respect it will not happen. Devs have said it is not something they want in game.

p00tx · December 2018

Absofreakinglutely not, under any circumstances. For one, this is super creepy. In a competitive game like this with the level of allowable versatility and fine tuning, a person's build is kind of a personal thing and really none of anyone else's business. Second, because of the competitive nature of this game in PvP, being able to data mine someone's build would give you a competitive edge over them. You don't need to know what my weaknesses are before you even fight me.

*Edit: That being said, I'm more than happy to share build tips if someone is looking for ideas. Not to say that I'm some sort of build guru, but I'm moderately less scrubby than the average noob and might know a few helpful things.

Skoomah · December 2018

No. Go theorycraft your own build.

jainiadral · December 2018

Here's my s00p3r 1337 "endgame" gear for both of my mag-CP toons (ph34r me!):

5x Julianos
5x Armor of the Seducer
2x Torug's Pact
6x light armor + heavy chest

All purple, all traited with "Training" and "Arcane" aside from my Khajiit's jewelry, which is blue.

Now you don't have to inspect me

Seriously though, this is probably a bad idea if globally implemented. A toggle on/off would probably be fine.

ZeroXFF · December 2018

max_only wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I think it would be great, people could see what the people doing well are wearing and it might give them food for thought for their future builds.

Believe it or not, some people have figured out some weird cheese that borderlines an exploit and aren’t eager to share, like certain sets acting off of each other in a merry go round of procs

This sounds like an argument for inspection, not against it. It could help get those exploits sorted faster.

I help strangers with builds and gear all the time. It’s too bad you didn’t meet more helpful people. Once I stayed behind on a dungeon just chatting to a new player for 10 minutes (almost as long as it took to do the dungeon lol) letting them know about making a build, how to build so it just takes a switch in armor to go from healing dungeons to burning through overland and world bosses. Furthermore our community has a ton of content creators who do a really great job of explaining.

I did get help, the 10+ minute conversations I had with multiple people helped my petsorc at the time go from 12k to 14k DPS and then 14k to 15k and so on (pre-Morrowind, probably around the times of Shadows of the Hist, or even Dark Brotherhood, not sure though, was long ago). And before that and during that time I didn't know if what I was doing was good enough or utterly inadequate, because it felt like I reached the ceiling, and all the numbers given by players in the game seemed to be some kind of trickery, because no matter what I did, nothing seemed to make much of a difference. If I could see other people's DPS in dungeons, I would have known where I stand, and would have worked harder on my sorc. I didn't get any real help that gave me a breakthrough until I made this thread little over a year ago (that's around the time of CWC release).

And yeah, I didn't look at what the "content creators" suggest, because I'd rather play the game than look at their "content". Coming from WoW for a long time it wasn't clear to me why I would even need some special build, because I thought the power difference between the best and the worst gear of the same level can't be that big.

Most of these things would have been addressed by a DPS meter that shows what damage others do and an inspect option. The lack of those resulted in me needing a year longer to "git gud" than it should have.

-25 DKP for not remembering how restrictive raiding was in WoW

DKP wasn't a thing in the guilds I raided with. And my druid tank was always welcome, even when they were considered bad. This isn't any different from ESO where the hardcore guilds don't take anyone but DKs for tanking and stack magblades or stamblades as DDs depending on content. At the same time my current guild doesn't care about top scores, so we run with a templar OT, a few 2H stam DKs as DDs, and if I were to switch to my NB or magplar for main tank, nobody would give my raid spot to anyone else, because they know I can handle tanking on a mashed potato if I absolutely have to.

Sylvermynx · December 2018

Nope. I hated that particular invasion in the other MMOs I played. If you want to know that bad, ASK. Politely.

max_only wrote: »

-25 DKP for not remembering how restrictive raiding was in WoW

Boy you said a mouthful there.

AzraelKrieg · December 2018

People already complain about addons that show what other people get when they loot bosses. So I'm sure this will go over like a fart in church.

ZeroXFF · December 2018

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

People already complain about addons that show what other people get when they loot bosses. So I'm sure this will go over like a fart in church.

I've only met like 3 people in the game who actually have a problem with this addon. It seems to be just fear-mongers on the forums that have an issue with stuff like that.

xxthir13enxx · December 2018

Nope...

starkerealm · December 2018

xaraan wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Omg noob you aren’t wearing Briarheart and Hundings???? Lol dude the almighty website of builds has BH and Hundies for every stam dps class lolololol

Yeah... no.

Meta is poison. Sure Meta brings the most on the table but the 2nd, 3rd or 4th option isn't really that far behind.

I agree. It’s like Slimecraw, Sellistrix, Kraghs, Toothrow, Night Terror and Vipers don’t even exist.

If it’s not for trials.... who cares what gear another person is wearing. And if it is for trials people usually ask to make sure they aren’t doubling up on sets unnecessarily (no double Ebon for example).

Sorry OP, back to the drawing board for that idea.

My totally favorite set in the game is VO, no its not good for long parses on boss and I don't need it if healer give shards or orbs.
But for easier content its idiotic fun, its important to have high uptime on vigor then doing random normals for the event

And yes more focus on the second tire sets. Most builds just focus on either trial or beginner builds.
Also an cp 160 tank or healer would want an more selfish set than an max cp.

This x100. I love VO (hate they nerfed the speed buff you get after killing something though), it's not OP, but not underpowered. Great for almost any content. Only change out of it for end game raiding stuff pretty much at this point or for pvp.

The speed buff was practically persistent in Maelstrom. Now, whether Stam needed a nerf in Maelstrom is another question entirely.

MattT1988 · December 2018

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

Nope...

This is your last warning about that.

AndyMac · December 2018

Nope - I’m always happy to tell people when I get asked

MrGraves · December 2018

xaraan wrote: »

FatFred wrote: »

Sometimes inspecting other player's gears was fun and satisfies my curiosity
also you could learn from experienced players ,see what gears setups they choose.

No. It's none of your business what I'm wearing or how I'm set up.

You can ask and I can decide if I want to answer - that should be the end of it.

edit: I also hate the whole lootspy crap. It's built into one of the mods I have and I don't activate it - I ask the group if they got something they would be willing to share and if they don't, then that's it. Just had a fight with another DPS in our guild the other day that spied I got a chestpiece they wanted when I was going to use it on my DPS (was currently tanking for the run) and they have had an attitude for a week and have gone out of their way to never share any other gear with me I've asked for that they offered to the group.

You are not entitled to anything from anyone else. Not gear. Not knowledge. You can ask and should be able to live with a negative answer.

I was just going to go on this thread and say that the loot thing is bad enough and gear inspecting would be worse. Glad you already basically said that. I usually trade gear with people in groups if i get it but people can just ask at end of trial/dungeon if people have the thing they want/if they want to trade it. If people want someone elses build then they can ask what they are running. And inspecting to make sure you're running what they approve of is just bad imo. it's bad enough with the CP/char levels stuff that people will kick others for before even seeing how they perform.