Heals and DDS

Veinblood1965 · November 2018

Ok just started running dungeons recently(relatively new at about 450 CP and just one toon) and had a player around 750 CP who was heals. The peep ran ahead and jumped into boss fights first ran the whole dungeon actiing like a tank not waiting on anyone even boss fights however at times also threw in a few heals to others and rarely took any damage. They knew the content really well. No complaints on my part was just different.

My question is is this a fake heals, what would be the point just queue as a tank Or some sort of hybrid build? If so any ideas? I'd like to try that myself at some point on a new toon if it's a legit build and not a fake heals lol.

NordSwordnBoard · November 2018

Normal or Veteran?

VaranisArano · November 2018

In normal dungeons, a skilled player can "act like a tank" by starting fights and not dying because most builds, especially healers, have a fair bit of self-healing.

The real benefit of a tank is crowd control, taunting the boss, and debuffs/buffs.

As an actual tank, I tend to look at players like that healer and say "You aggro it, you can tank it until I get there."

dtsharples · November 2018

You can no longer queue as 2 roles, and there was never an option for a hybrid build queue.
You now have to queue for just one role, mainly due to 'fake tanks' joining for dungeons and not tanking at all.

For non-DLC Vet dungeons / pledges I have an Argonian Warden Healer / Tank Hybrid.
I usually queue as the tank, and then ask the healer if they can add some more damage to their bars, unless ofc we go as a pre-made with 3DDs.

A lot of content outside of DLC doesn't require a healer (unfortunately imo) and barely requires a tank.
For me a tank is doing their job right, if they taunt the biggest, nastiest adds / Boss, point them away from the group and root them in place.
Other than that you can usually do quite a bit of DPS if you know the content well enough.

Donny_Vito · November 2018

dtsharples wrote: »

You can no longer queue as 2 roles, and there was never an option for a hybrid build queue.
You now have to queue for just one role, mainly due to 'fake tanks' joining for dungeons and not tanking at all.

For non-DLC Vet dungeons / pledges I have an Argonian Warden Healer / Tank Hybrid.
I usually queue as the tank, and then ask the healer if they can add some more damage to their bars, unless ofc we go as a pre-made with 3DDs.

A lot of content outside of DLC doesn't require a healer (unfortunately imo) and barely requires a tank.
For me a tank is doing their job right, if they taunt the biggest, nastiest adds / Boss, point them away from the group and root them in place.
Other than that you can usually do quite a bit of DPS if you know the content well enough.

While what you said about not being able to queue as 2 roles is true, this has not fixed the "fank tank" situation at all. At least when someone was queued as 2 roles, you could easily identify that they were a fake tank. Now, you really don't know until you start going through the dungeon and realize they don't have a taunt on and they suck at tanking.

But all this is usually moot with normal dungeons. DD's will queue as either a tank or healer because the wait time for a DD is 30+ minutes sometimes, where as the healer/tank role can queue instantaneously sometimes. In Vet dungeons (maybe not easy ones) I'll initiate a vote-kick on people with fake roles. I would recommend doing the same.

GimpyPorcupine · November 2018

I recommend vote-kicking fakers even on normal dungeons, because they're cheating all the DPS that waited their turn in queue.

Veinblood1965 · November 2018

Thanks everyone, yes just normal dungeons atm till I learn the mechanics. I ran into the same situation last night. In other Morphs I usually play healer but in ESO I've went to DD. In other Morphs I've not had the option to do both damage and heals it's pretty cool to have that option now it seems. I've gotta do some research but did make a Resto Staff of Julianos last night and started tinkering around with trash mobs.

I've only been running dungeons for a week now and doing pretty good and actually getting compliments on how I play my DD even not knowing the ropes yet. I was added to one instance were apparently every wiped a few times on the first boss and there were some weird mechanics, I didn't know they had wiped but after the boss had some congrats from several of them lol. Since I've gotten the swing of DD once I get heals learned a bit more will be fun to toss in a few heals if needed.

I have ran into one or two fake tanks so far though it was obvious as the true tanks have mobs stuck on them like glue lol.

Donny_Vito · November 2018

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Thanks everyone, yes just normal dungeons atm till I learn the mechanics. I ran into the same situation last night. In other Morphs I usually play healer but in ESO I've went to DD. In other Morphs I've not had the option to do both damage and heals it's pretty cool to have that option now it seems. I've gotta do some research but did make a Resto Staff of Julianos last night and started tinkering around with trash mobs.

I've only been running dungeons for a week now and doing pretty good and actually getting compliments on how I play my DD even not knowing the ropes yet. I was added to one instance were apparently every wiped a few times on the first boss and there were some weird mechanics, I didn't know they had wiped but after the boss had some congrats from several of them lol. Since I've gotten the swing of DD once I get heals learned a bit more will be fun to toss in a few heals if needed.

I have ran into one or two fake tanks so far though it was obvious as the true tanks have mobs stuck on them like glue lol.

Yeah there are definitely benefits to having a dedicated tank (especially one who is a DK - Dragon Knight) as they can use the "chains" skill to pull the mobs in close allowing the DDs to use their AOE abilities much more effectively. While fake tanks can do much more damage as they are basically DDs in disguise, sometimes I do prefer to have a real tank. Plus, with a real tank the bosses typically stay in one position, whereas if you have a fake tank the bosses will roam around attacking differently people if they aren't taunted. When I fake tank on my DD, I always slot Inner Fire (a taunt ability in the Undaunted skill tree) so I can at least hold aggro. I only do this in normal dungeons though, and on Vet dungeons I respect the roles.

Veinblood1965 · November 2018

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Thanks everyone, yes just normal dungeons atm till I learn the mechanics. I ran into the same situation last night. In other Morphs I usually play healer but in ESO I've went to DD. In other Morphs I've not had the option to do both damage and heals it's pretty cool to have that option now it seems. I've gotta do some research but did make a Resto Staff of Julianos last night and started tinkering around with trash mobs.

I've only been running dungeons for a week now and doing pretty good and actually getting compliments on how I play my DD even not knowing the ropes yet. I was added to one instance were apparently every wiped a few times on the first boss and there were some weird mechanics, I didn't know they had wiped but after the boss had some congrats from several of them lol. Since I've gotten the swing of DD once I get heals learned a bit more will be fun to toss in a few heals if needed.

I have ran into one or two fake tanks so far though it was obvious as the true tanks have mobs stuck on them like glue lol.

Yeah there are definitely benefits to having a dedicated tank (especially one who is a DK - Dragon Knight) as they can use the "chains" skill to pull the mobs in close allowing the DDs to use their AOE abilities much more effectively. While fake tanks can do much more damage as they are basically DDs in disguise, sometimes I do prefer to have a real tank. Plus, with a real tank the bosses typically stay in one position, whereas if you have a fake tank the bosses will roam around attacking differently people if they aren't taunted. When I fake tank on my DD, I always slot Inner Fire (a taunt ability in the Undaunted skill tree) so I can at least hold aggro. I only do this in normal dungeons though, and on Vet dungeons I respect the roles.

I don't think that's actually a fake tank, if you hold aggro then that's the job. If you can also add some DPS then that's even better. Since I'm DD I use an AOE and the more mobs in the same spot the better. It sucks to have to pick them off one at a time since that's wasting resources I can use on sustained fights.

zaria · November 2018

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I recommend vote-kicking fakers even on normal dungeons, because they're cheating all the DPS that waited their turn in queue.

This, and the fools think that work in vet to.
Even in normal dlc it has an quality requirement of player.

zaria · November 2018

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Thanks everyone, yes just normal dungeons atm till I learn the mechanics. I ran into the same situation last night. In other Morphs I usually play healer but in ESO I've went to DD. In other Morphs I've not had the option to do both damage and heals it's pretty cool to have that option now it seems. I've gotta do some research but did make a Resto Staff of Julianos last night and started tinkering around with trash mobs.

I've only been running dungeons for a week now and doing pretty good and actually getting compliments on how I play my DD even not knowing the ropes yet. I was added to one instance were apparently every wiped a few times on the first boss and there were some weird mechanics, I didn't know they had wiped but after the boss had some congrats from several of them lol. Since I've gotten the swing of DD once I get heals learned a bit more will be fun to toss in a few heals if needed.

I have ran into one or two fake tanks so far though it was obvious as the true tanks have mobs stuck on them like glue lol.

Yeah there are definitely benefits to having a dedicated tank (especially one who is a DK - Dragon Knight) as they can use the "chains" skill to pull the mobs in close allowing the DDs to use their AOE abilities much more effectively. While fake tanks can do much more damage as they are basically DDs in disguise, sometimes I do prefer to have a real tank. Plus, with a real tank the bosses typically stay in one position, whereas if you have a fake tank the bosses will roam around attacking differently people if they aren't taunted. When I fake tank on my DD, I always slot Inner Fire (a taunt ability in the Undaunted skill tree) so I can at least hold aggro. I only do this in normal dungeons though, and on Vet dungeons I respect the roles.

I don't think that's actually a fake tank, if you hold aggro then that's the job. If you can also add some DPS then that's even better. Since I'm DD I use an AOE and the more mobs in the same spot the better. It sucks to have to pick them off one at a time since that's wasting resources I can use on sustained fights.

Depend on group, I ran with a guild as healer, vet darkshade 2 last boss, tank switched to DD as you can not tank boss, but you need healer this worked.
Did it again as tank with another group went DD, we wiped some times before I go tank again and a clear.
My dps was far lower than other tank, group dps was also lower and I was an better healer.
Yes I had chains on DK but it did not help.
And darkshade 2 has again come up as one of my favorites for an well constructed dungeon who can be done in multiple ways

Protossyder · November 2018

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I recommend vote-kicking fakers even on normal dungeons, because they're cheating all the DPS that waited their turn in queue.

Sorry, but I will not waste time by...

a) waiting 30 min+ for a simple dungeon run (either normal or vet(nodlc))

b) being slowed down in the dungeon if b.1) I am (real) dd and the only one actually dealing some damage
b.2) I am (real) tank/healer and no one is pulling dps (worst case)

if you pick healer or tank you can be sure that you will get atleast two additional DDs (more DDs => more DPS). Concerning pugs, the only person I can trust is myself

Nocturnalan · November 2018

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I recommend vote-kicking fakers even on normal dungeons, because they're cheating all the DPS that waited their turn in queue.

So much this.

GimpyPorcupine · November 2018

@Protossyder , I guess your time is much more valuable than everyone else's.

If you queue as a tank, use a taunt. If you queue as a healer, slot and use some heals. Otherwise, queue as a DD and wait your turn like everyone else. It's common courtesy.

zaria · November 2018

Protossyder wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I recommend vote-kicking fakers even on normal dungeons, because they're cheating all the DPS that waited their turn in queue.

Sorry, but I will not waste time by...

a) waiting 30 min+ for a simple dungeon run (either normal or vet(nodlc))

b) being slowed down in the dungeon if b.1) I am (real) dd and the only one actually dealing some damage
b.2) I am (real) tank/healer and no one is pulling dps (worst case)

if you pick healer or tank you can be sure that you will get atleast two additional DDs (more DDs => more DPS). Concerning pugs, the only person I can trust is myself

Yes but the DD might be LA bow spammer in light armor. Healers has it easier as its pretty easy to go from DD / healer up to trial healer in on build.
Banished cell 2 has two dps checks, Keeper Indril and the final boss detrought, both can be failed in normal

I know.

Protossyder · November 2018

zaria wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

I recommend vote-kicking fakers even on normal dungeons, because they're cheating all the DPS that waited their turn in queue.

Sorry, but I will not waste time by...

a) waiting 30 min+ for a simple dungeon run (either normal or vet(nodlc))

b) being slowed down in the dungeon if b.1) I am (real) dd and the only one actually dealing some damage
b.2) I am (real) tank/healer and no one is pulling dps (worst case)

if you pick healer or tank you can be sure that you will get atleast two additional DDs (more DDs => more DPS). Concerning pugs, the only person I can trust is myself

Yes but the DD might be LA bow spammer in light armor. Healers has it easier as its pretty easy to go from DD / healer up to trial healer in on build.
Banished cell 2 has two dps checks, Keeper Indril and the final boss detrought, both can be failed in normal I know.

So? You are just proving my point (b.2). Why would i pick a DD role if the second DD is probably a "LA bow spammer in light armor"? I'll pick healer role, get 2 other DDs that have maybe 40% group dps combined, a tank (or DD in disguise) and let's go. ez mode

pluckpluck · November 2018

I think pretty the same as @GimpyPorcupine .

Every class has a possibility of self heal, okay. So, in normal dungeons, you could imagine to drop the healer, and maybe even the tank, if it's non DLC. When it comes to vet content, even non DLC, not having someone that taunt is just a pain. You want to enrole as tank? okay but then you assume to taunt. If you can't or haven't enough survivability, i'll directly vote for a kick. I don't care you deal 50k+ and are the best of the best to be honest. Then go alone, or, better, create a group with people thinking like you, @Protossyder .

Of course it is a pain that DDs have to wait over 15 minutes to get a group. Sadly, most of new players go for khajiit stamblades, which can be a good thing, but that need some skill too, and they take so many slots in queues. Of course, I main a tank, so I never have issues to get a group. When I want to go with my magDK, I then ask in guilds for a support class, to not wait much. But any newbie I get on my path, I suggest to start as a support character, to first get mechanics of dungs while easily getting needed stuff, and be enroled quickly. And to, so, unclog the DD queue.

But my worst experiences in PUGs are with fake healers and fake tanks of high level trying to dictate the speed of the run and pushing for kicking "low levels". Why do they even queue? I prefer newbies in right roles than HL players faking.

paulychan · November 2018

In normal dungeons, my dedicated healer (Breton/magplar/lightning back bar) is essentially a heal/buff/dd. Vet and trials he actually c9ncentrated on his job. Could be you were with one like mine. He's a beast

Veinblood1965 · November 2018

pluckpluck wrote: »

I think pretty the same as @GimpyPorcupine .

Every class has a possibility of self heal, okay. So, in normal dungeons, you could imagine to drop the healer, and maybe even the tank, if it's non DLC. When it comes to vet content, even non DLC, not having someone that taunt is just a pain. You want to enrole as tank? okay but then you assume to taunt. If you can't or haven't enough survivability, i'll directly vote for a kick. I don't care you deal 50k+ and are the best of the best to be honest. Then go alone, or, better, create a group with people thinking like you, @Protossyder .

Of course it is a pain that DDs have to wait over 15 minutes to get a group. Sadly, most of new players go for khajiit stamblades, which can be a good thing, but that need some skill too, and they take so many slots in queues. Of course, I main a tank, so I never have issues to get a group. When I want to go with my magDK, I then ask in guilds for a support class, to not wait much. But any newbie I get on my path, I suggest to start as a support character, to first get mechanics of dungs while easily getting needed stuff, and be enroled quickly. And to, so, unclog the DD queue.

But my worst experiences in PUGs are with fake healers and fake tanks of high level trying to dictate the speed of the run and pushing for kicking "low levels". Why do they even queue? I prefer newbies in right roles than HL players faking.

Ok I ran into a Fake Tank AND a Fake Heals in the same dungeon run Monday night. I've never seen a tank die so much, and healer also. I ended up ressing the group a million times all the way to the final boss and finally left as we just could not complete it. It was laughable! I think it was blessed crucible? One of the dungeons that require good mechanics to run. I'm serious within seconds BAM the tank would die, then two seconds later BAM the healer would die. I seriously ran around ressing over and over again just for kicks and tossed in dmg when i could. Mobs running all over the place it would have been a great Monte Python skit!

Protossyder · November 2018

pluckpluck wrote: »

I think pretty the same as @GimpyPorcupine .

Every class has a possibility of self heal, okay. So, in normal dungeons, you could imagine to drop the healer, and maybe even the tank, if it's non DLC. When it comes to vet content, even non DLC, not having someone that taunt is just a pain. You want to enrole as tank? okay but then you assume to taunt. If you can't or haven't enough survivability, i'll directly vote for a kick. I don't care you deal 50k+ and are the best of the best to be honest. Then go alone, or, better, create a group with people thinking like you, @Protossyder .

Of course it is a pain that DDs have to wait over 15 minutes to get a group. Sadly, most of new players go for khajiit stamblades, which can be a good thing, but that need some skill too, and they take so many slots in queues. Of course, I main a tank, so I never have issues to get a group. When I want to go with my magDK, I then ask in guilds for a support class, to not wait much. But any newbie I get on my path, I suggest to start as a support character, to first get mechanics of dungs while easily getting needed stuff, and be enroled quickly. And to, so, unclog the DD queue.

But my worst experiences in PUGs are with fake healers and fake tanks of high level trying to dictate the speed of the run and pushing for kicking "low levels". Why do they even queue? I prefer newbies in right roles than HL players faking.

Sorry, I may have been a little unclear:

Queuing as tank: okay for normal, not okay for vet
Queuing as healer: totally okay for normal, okay for vet, not okay for a few vet dlc dungeons

But who pugs vet anyways, huh? Just ask friends > guild members > random zone chat guys

GimpyPorcupine · November 2018

Protossyder wrote: »

pluckpluck wrote: »

I think pretty the same as @GimpyPorcupine .

Every class has a possibility of self heal, okay. So, in normal dungeons, you could imagine to drop the healer, and maybe even the tank, if it's non DLC. When it comes to vet content, even non DLC, not having someone that taunt is just a pain. You want to enrole as tank? okay but then you assume to taunt. If you can't or haven't enough survivability, i'll directly vote for a kick. I don't care you deal 50k+ and are the best of the best to be honest. Then go alone, or, better, create a group with people thinking like you, @Protossyder .

Of course it is a pain that DDs have to wait over 15 minutes to get a group. Sadly, most of new players go for khajiit stamblades, which can be a good thing, but that need some skill too, and they take so many slots in queues. Of course, I main a tank, so I never have issues to get a group. When I want to go with my magDK, I then ask in guilds for a support class, to not wait much. But any newbie I get on my path, I suggest to start as a support character, to first get mechanics of dungs while easily getting needed stuff, and be enroled quickly. And to, so, unclog the DD queue.

But my worst experiences in PUGs are with fake healers and fake tanks of high level trying to dictate the speed of the run and pushing for kicking "low levels". Why do they even queue? I prefer newbies in right roles than HL players faking.

Sorry, I may have been a little unclear:

Queuing as tank: okay for normal, not okay for vet
Queuing as healer: totally okay for normal, okay for vet, not okay for a few vet dlc dungeons

But who pugs vet anyways, huh? Just ask friends > guild members > random zone chat guys

No you were clear. And in case I was unclear:

Queuing as tank: okay for normal or vet if you're a tank, otherwise not okay because you're "cutting line" in front of the DDs.
Queuing as a healer: okay for normal or vet if you're a healer, otherwise not okay because you're "cutting line" in front of the DDs.

Hope that helps.

Protossyder · November 2018

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

pluckpluck wrote: »

I think pretty the same as @GimpyPorcupine .

Every class has a possibility of self heal, okay. So, in normal dungeons, you could imagine to drop the healer, and maybe even the tank, if it's non DLC. When it comes to vet content, even non DLC, not having someone that taunt is just a pain. You want to enrole as tank? okay but then you assume to taunt. If you can't or haven't enough survivability, i'll directly vote for a kick. I don't care you deal 50k+ and are the best of the best to be honest. Then go alone, or, better, create a group with people thinking like you, @Protossyder .

Of course it is a pain that DDs have to wait over 15 minutes to get a group. Sadly, most of new players go for khajiit stamblades, which can be a good thing, but that need some skill too, and they take so many slots in queues. Of course, I main a tank, so I never have issues to get a group. When I want to go with my magDK, I then ask in guilds for a support class, to not wait much. But any newbie I get on my path, I suggest to start as a support character, to first get mechanics of dungs while easily getting needed stuff, and be enroled quickly. And to, so, unclog the DD queue.

But my worst experiences in PUGs are with fake healers and fake tanks of high level trying to dictate the speed of the run and pushing for kicking "low levels". Why do they even queue? I prefer newbies in right roles than HL players faking.

Sorry, I may have been a little unclear:

Queuing as tank: okay for normal, not okay for vet
Queuing as healer: totally okay for normal, okay for vet, not okay for a few vet dlc dungeons

But who pugs vet anyways, huh? Just ask friends > guild members > random zone chat guys

No you were clear. And in case I was unclear:

Queuing as tank: okay for normal or vet if you're a tank, otherwise not okay because you're "cutting line" in front of the DDs.
Queuing as a healer: okay for normal or vet if you're a healer, otherwise not okay because you're "cutting line" in front of the DDs.

Hope that helps.

@GimpyPorcupine

Actually... everybody benefits from me "cutting" the "line". Instead of 3 DDs looking for a group, it's just 2 DDs and one healer looking only for a tank. People should learn to deal with it

sdtlc · November 2018

it realy depends on who is cutting the line, if it's a capable dd with the possibilty to aggro the mobs and burn ehm quick and hold the boss on a spot, it may work.

But if you get that mediocre dd and end up with mobs running after everyone and the whole run ending in chaos, i can completly understand people beeing mad about.

This is an MMO and groupactivities are not about what the group can deliver to you, that you may get you're fancy experience. It's about what the group can do with everyone participating.

Remember that guys at work which takes every stupid comment from you? He may only do it cause he's getting paid and not cause he enjoys it.

/rant

Sparr0w · November 2018

I fake tank normals on my stamblade...

Caltrops draws agro of everything, surprise attack debuffs everything *shrug*

Hotdog_23 · November 2018

I know many people think they are good enough to be fake tanks and are really a DD but in my experience over the years this is just not true. A dungeon goes much smoother if you have a tank period.

I always queue as my role. I would feel like I am a cheat and liar if I queued as fake anything but that's just me.

xiZeroPointix · December 2018

The problem is that there are too many people who think they are dds. Not enough tanks to go around, so que times are very, very long. If we want things to get better, roll a tank and be part of the solution.

Veinblood1965 · December 2018

xiZeroPointix wrote: »

The problem is that there are too many people who think they are dds. Not enough tanks to go around, so que times are very, very long. If we want things to get better, roll a tank and be part of the solution.

Actually I did just that over the weekend. DK