If other people and minor issues are such an inconvenience to you, why do you even play the game?

adeptusminor · December 2018

I don't. I'm making an exception for my core runs because I don't want to leave the 11 other people hanging, but once my ESO+ runs out I don't see myself even making that exception.

Itacira · December 2018

Karmanorway wrote: »

Personally i continue to play it, because of all the TIME ive put into the game that i can never have back. When u have already invested that much time, u will ofc continue Playing until u have finished whatever goals u have in the game.

If u climb 95% of Mt. Everest, you dont turn back because its getting too cold or tiring, leaving those last 5% forever

the Mt Everest analogy may not be the best one because those last 5% may cause your death x)

Finviuswe · December 2018

Not an inconvenience for me

I keep playing the game because people keep telling me I'm really good at the game. I wouldn't keep playing the game if I didn't keep receiving this kind of feedback.

But that's just me

But even if you aren't, you know really good at PvP or something. There's something out there for you, to be sure.

Itacira · December 2018

Most people reading OPs post misunderstand it. OP isn't complaining about people complaining about the game (for example, people seeking a better service for their buck) OP is complaining about people who take their frustration out on other players.

Now, there's a reason for this misunderstanding, and it's because OP's post is itself very aggressive and thus difficult to comprehend without giving into defensiveness. When it comes to communication the tone is very important, and here the tone is all over the place. It's a rant. Ranting doesn't invite a proper exchange of ideas. So you will not get a real conversation about community building and acceptance and making sure everyone is welcome in the game (or even in the forums). You'll only get people defensively ranting at you.

Basically OP, while you do have a point, the way you phrased it actually shows you behaving the same way those you criticize in your post do. You took it out on the forum. Don't be surprised that nothing constructive comes off this.

Nyladreas · December 2018

Itacira wrote: »

Most people reading OPs post misunderstand it. OP isn't complaining about people complaining about the game (for example, people seeking a better service for their buck) OP is complaining about people who take their frustration out on other players.

Now, there's a reason for this misunderstanding, and it's because OP's post is itself very aggressive and thus difficult to comprehend without giving into defensiveness. When it comes to communication the tone is very important, and here the tone is all over the place. It's a rant. Ranting doesn't invite a proper exchange of ideas. So you will not get a real conversation about community building and acceptance and making sure everyone is welcome in the game (or even in the forums). You'll only get people defensively ranting at you.

Basically OP, while you do have a point, the way you phrased it actually shows you behaving the same way those you criticize in your post do. You took it out on the forum. Don't be surprised that nothing constructive comes off this.

Thanks for explaining that. My only question is how and where was I aggressive? I'm asking several questions in an unfiltered manner. Nothing I ever meant to come off as aggressive in the slightest. @Itacira

alanmatillab16_ESO · December 2018

Ishtar65 wrote: »

Relative deprivation.

Go play SWTOR for a year then come back here and tell us how bad this game is.

The funny thing is SWTOR is in the pish poor state it is in now for exactly the reasons the OP made this thread. They listened to the whiners about class balance and nerfed the difficulty of leveling just like many players are whining for in ESO.

I don't know about YOU but I do not want ESO going the way of SWTOR.

Vapirko · December 2018

Haven’t you made a fair number of threads complaining about various aspects of this game?

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · December 2018

cuz khajiit. and no other good mmos. and I hate eastern mmos. and there is nothing good coming up.
zos ZOS fix ur damn game.

Itacira · December 2018

@Nyladreas

Generally speaking, the fact that your post is emotional (unfiltered, as you say) will create an emotional response. While I myself am not an active defender of the "reason over feelings" mindset, even I mus admit that shouting contests are rarely the best way to carry on a discussion.

Specifically, for example, the "you" that you use in your post, even though it is supposed to address the people whose behavior you dislike, will actually feel like it addresses the reader itself in a more general way. Any reader. Thus, people that you might have convinced of your point in another situation will actually take the defense of the accused, if only because they feel accused themselves. They won't bother reading all of the text carefully because each sentence will be unpleasant to read to them so they won't understand your point, and they won't bother trying to because that requires a cool-headedness that your text does not invite.

It's actually something that is seen more and more in activist communities that are torn between anger and education. The problem with the first is that, no matter how rightful, it tends to push people away and close the ranks of those who are already convinced. The problem with the later is that it is tiresome, time consuming and, yes, sometimes it feels like everyone is agreeing and you're getting somewhere but in the end everybody is content to remain in the comfort of their usual ways since nothing shook them out of it.

To sum it up : communication is complex, humans may have words but using them efficiently is another thing, empathy is helpful but exhausting, and let's all be friends.

rexagamemnon · December 2018

I made a thread about the exact same thing last week. Its so annoying seeing so many people wine like children that do not get every single thing they think should be in ESO or TES. Especially when people have their favorite class balanced. The latest hissy fit is the sorc. The PVP’rs are the worst, talk about the biggest cry babies. I had some jackass tell me that people like him have been playing for three years and that they “theory craft” and know how the game works, etc., etc. get over yourself dude. At the end of the day these are a bunch of crybabies upset they didnt get their way, go play another game.

jainiadral · December 2018

@Itacira

That's a really kind way of putting things. As someone who tries very hard to embrace rationality at all costs, I find these emotional "unfiltered" threads to be actively hostile and off-putting. I find that IRL with causes as well. Ordinarily, I'd be in the fold on most social inequality issues these days, but the highly confrontational and "unfiltered" nature of activism now puts me right off. Tactically, I think activists are making a huge mistake at best so I avoid them at all costs.

@Nyladreas

Do you really want an actual breakdown of the hostility I see in your responses? Just checking, because I'll point out what's rubbing me the wrong way.

I'll say this, though. Filters are what help keep us from rubbing each other the wrong way in society. Without them, we'd never have survived to cooperate to build modern day civilization.

AcadianPaladin · December 2018

I think that @Itacira is insightful and spot on here.

A question to ponder when forum discourse begins to get heated: Have you ever seen a person's basic attitude or mindset change on an emotional issue based upon a forum post? I haven't.

Karmanorway · December 2018

Itacira wrote: »

Karmanorway wrote: »

Personally i continue to play it, because of all the TIME ive put into the game that i can never have back. When u have already invested that much time, u will ofc continue Playing until u have finished whatever goals u have in the game.

If u climb 95% of Mt. Everest, you dont turn back because its getting too cold or tiring, leaving those last 5% forever

the Mt Everest analogy may not be the best one because those last 5% may cause your death x)

True it was a bad one, i had some cyrodiil performance issues when i wrote that so was more or less thinking of cyrodiil when i wrote xD

Sylvermynx · December 2018

@Itacira: I'm not quoting your posts because they're longer - and because people have likely read them at least once anyway. I'd just like to say that you are so right in so many ways from my POV as an "older" person. What I felt at first reading of the OP's post was.... "YOU - YOU personally (me, in effect) - are the problem!"

I had to reread it a couple of times to get my fight reflex down to something approximating flight instead. I've had some serious adverse reactions to the OP various times since I arrived here, but this time - I really felt he was meaning me in a very up close and personal way.

I don't actually do any of the things he was ranting about. But it took me a long time (and many hours away - but that was because of dinner at friend's than because I did it on purpose!) to get past that "fight or flight" reflex.

Now, @Nyladreas: you do seem to have some issues with the way people use the forum here. I'd like to point out that as forums go, this one's not nearly the cesspool you seem to think it. I spent 7+ years on the WoW CS forum. Believe me.... this one's not a patch on that one. And then there were the years I spent trying to keep a lid on the Bioware BG1 forum - without even token mod assistance. That one included an actual stalker and death threats IRL, with police protection etc. None of which Bioware ever acknowledged btw.

I agree that it does seem that common politeness and civility is often missing on not only this forum but others (not the one I personally run and moderate though, except for the political thread). However, your initial post was lacking either. So what did you expect? If you didn't expect what you got.... well.... perhaps you should rethink how you post in future.

GreenhaloX · December 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Lately I've been seeing an increased number of complaints and topics in which people complain and swear at numerous absolutely normal things in a fashion that would make a psychiatrist roll their eyes.

I'm of course talking about "issues" such as (but not limited to): other players, incompence, dungeons taking too long, low dps of new players, inability to magically "understand" mechanics, "wrong" race, "wrong" gear, boredom, events being "bland", content being "easy", etc., etc., etc........

So why in the oblivion do you even play this game if everything is a problem or if everything is an obstacle that (quote) holds YOU back????

Why are you here?? Why are you complaining, why don't you make or join a guild if everything is such a big "problem" for you.

Waaahh wahhh event takes too long to get my tickets I need em omg I'll kms if I don't... I must have it cause "reasons".

What the actual crap, people....

Are you such an addict to the game that you can't spend 30 minutes extra to get something you want so bad? Legit question: what's the point of playing a game you hate so much? Why would you choose to spend time doing something you don't enjoy???

If any of this here applies to you go take a break or find a therapist. it's really not okay to complain like this, let alone punish and make other players feel miserable because of your own personal problems or issues.

Learn to respect each others, respect the time of other people, their efforts, their skill gaps... Or go join a guild of like-minded people and stop plaguing what once used to be an amazing extremely helpful and friendly community.

Stop acting like a narcissistic sociopath in this game. It's enough world of warcraft is full of them nowadays. No wonder even blizzard started banning for toxicity and disrespect.

This is ridiculous. We're all people. Learn some sense of respect, humor, and most importantly: HOW TO HAVE FUN WITH OTHERS.

You're not a better more godly person if you just so happen to be a higher tier raider. You eat drink sleep *** and *** like all of us. And you'll die one day as well. Try to be a little bit more considerate.

-end rant

Ha ha ha.. sounds like you're quite amped up here yourself. You may need a bit of a vacation as well. Go to a nice place and chant over and over again, "Serenity now.." I was going to also mention a psychiatrist for you, as you had mentioned for others; but nahh, they only screw you up more, really..

Well, I get it, however. Your ranting here are just venting as the others you're complaining about. It's a way to release; on this forum or not. Hope you feel better, though. Hope everybody feel better as well..

bottleofsyrup · December 2018

tl;dr

FlyingSwan · December 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

some people are happy with mediocrity i guess

Stop talking about THE GAME here. I'm talking about how people treat each other ffs.

The irony is strong in this one.

Trancestor · December 2018

You complaining about people complaining is worse than people complaining about legitimate complaints.

KaiDynasty · December 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Lately I've been seeing an increased number of complaints and topics in which people complain and swear at numerous absolutely normal things in a fashion that would make a psychiatrist roll their eyes.

I'm of course talking about "issues" such as (but not limited to): other players, incompence, dungeons taking too long, low dps of new players, inability to magically "understand" mechanics, "wrong" race, "wrong" gear, boredom, events being "bland", content being "easy", etc., etc., etc........

So why in the oblivion do you even play this game if everything is a problem or if everything is an obstacle that (quote) holds YOU back????

Why are you here?? Why are you complaining, why don't you make or join a guild if everything is such a big "problem" for you.

Waaahh wahhh event takes too long to get my tickets I need em omg I'll kms if I don't... I must have it cause "reasons".

What the actual crap, people....

Are you such an addict to the game that you can't spend 30 minutes extra to get something you want so bad? Legit question: what's the point of playing a game you hate so much? Why would you choose to spend time doing something you don't enjoy???

If any of this here applies to you go take a break or find a therapist. it's really not okay to complain like this, let alone punish and make other players feel miserable because of your own personal problems or issues.

Learn to respect each others, respect the time of other people, their efforts, their skill gaps... Or go join a guild of like-minded people and stop plaguing what once used to be an amazing extremely helpful and friendly community.

Stop acting like a narcissistic sociopath in this game. It's enough world of warcraft is full of them nowadays. No wonder even blizzard started banning for toxicity and disrespect.

This is ridiculous. We're all people. Learn some sense of respect, humor, and most importantly: HOW TO HAVE FUN WITH OTHERS.

You're not a better more godly person if you just so happen to be a higher tier raider. You eat drink sleep *** and *** like all of us. And you'll die one day as well. Try to be a little bit more considerate.

-end rant

This quote doesn't apply to me.

Feanor · December 2018

You have an extensive ranting history yourself @Nyladreas, including but not limited to "magSorcs OP", "why are players wiping me in Battlegrounds", your failures in PvP in general, and more. You'd have a point if that wouldn't make your post a bit hypocritical.

I'd much rather have people vent their frustrations here instead of outright leaving the game.

zyk · December 2018

The classic complaining about the complainers post.

RavenSworn · December 2018

Ohtimbar wrote: »

ZOS is a business, ESO is a service, I am a customer. Complaining is a perfectly rational and natural part of any business relationship. I find it strange when people don't criticize and complain. None of this is personal. I bear no animus against the developers, but will continue to sharply criticize their work if and when I see fit.

I absolutely abhor this. "if and when I see fit"? It's customers like these that makes the service industry so unrewarding. I don't question your right to complain, I really don't. But just because you can, you should. And the word you are looking for is feedback. It works both ways, positive and negative.

You'd want to have feedback on a product that you've bought or used but it is up to the company / business to measure the legitimacy of the feedback itself.

The problem here is that, some of the feedback given by the players contradict each other in many ways. Players complain about the changes to sorcs while others lauds it simply because now they are having a better time dealing with them. Another might complain about the nightblade numbers making up trials while another says that it's just time for nb to rise. Or perhaps players were complaining about the sheer tenacity a DK might give in pvp while others complain about 'unkillable' Templars. It's this tremendous spectrum of feedback that ZoS has to manage and actually sieve through to 'measure' its priority.

Now do I think ZoS can do a better job? Hell yes! They might need different perspectives or different talents to manage the changes. But again, the 'complaints' has to be justifiable, rationale and most importantly, logical. Too many of the complaints here on the forums aren't just that. They are biased, opinionated and unfortunately loud. If it's one feedback that I would give to ZoS is that pls take everything in the forums with a pinch of salt.

Lifemocker · December 2018

Trancestor wrote: »

You complaining about people complaining is worse than people complaining about legitimate complaints.

What is even worse than that, is that very few even understand what OP is talking about here.

zyk · December 2018

The purpose of this forum is to discuss topics related to the game, including the things we don't like.

If you believe ZOS, the game is played by millions of people from around the world. The Elder Scrolls IP is nearly 25 years old which means there are players of almost all ages. It has a mixed gaming audience ranging from casual single player gamers to hardcore MMO vets.

So of course we're going to disagree. And of course, like the OP, we will sometimes be dismissive of the concerns of others and consider it baseless whining.

Bugs and severe gameplay issues can be extremely frustrating, so sometimes it will be heated. Some of us -- like me -- are pretty jaded which is purely my prerogative. To some players, this game is a serious hobby that they feel very invested in, so there will also be passion.

The problem here isn't that there's too much complaining. The problem is skin that is not thick enough. We especially see this trait in any balance discussions. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the fire.

jainiadral · December 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I'd like to point out that as forums go, this one's not nearly the cesspool you seem to think it. I spent 7+ years on the WoW CS forum. Believe me.... this one's not a patch on that one. And then there were the years I spent trying to keep a lid on the Bioware BG1 forum - without even token mod assistance. That one included an actual stalker and death threats IRL, with police protection etc. None of which Bioware ever acknowledged btw.

I agree that it does seem that common politeness and civility is often missing on not only this forum but others (not the one I personally run and moderate though, except for the political thread). However, your initial post was lacking either. So what did you expect? If you didn't expect what you got.... well.... perhaps you should rethink how you post in future.

This is spot on from what I've seen here and on other forums. This forum's surprisingly restrained compared to a few others I've read/posted on despite catering to a much more competitive player base. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part people do sort of get along and if things get out of hand, the mod staff seems to nip things in the bud.

It's pretty much par for the course to have at least a couple of extremely popular threads about how terrible PUGging is and how little skill the average player has. SWTOR's most popular thread was titled something like "Weird People You Meet in Groupfinder." Events like Undaunted, CWC, and, say, Queen's Gauntlet in GW2 cater to the more elite and/or competitive part of the player base. During these kinds of events, forums are flooded with the kind of elitist junk that you're seeing a little of here. Being casual at those times feels like you're wearing a huge "kick me" sign on your back. If you ever wanted to see the seedy underbelly of the GW2 community, you should have been reading the forums this summer

Of course, there's the unintended chilling effect that occurs in the larger community during events like Undaunted. They read the forums, assume the rest of the community is like that, and become paranoid about doing any kind of group content. Queue times go up in the long run since newer people are afraid to group up. A lot of the hardcore vets who jump into the fray don't realize they're shooting themselves in the foot in the long run by behaving like this.

But all of this is pretty much part and parcel of gaming as a whole. The best anyone can do is to try to keep an open mind and just kind of get along.

Kumbaya!

HafPenny · December 2018

Ishtar65 wrote: »

Relative deprivation.

Go play SWTOR for a year then come back here and tell us how bad this game is.

Actually, the issues with steam the other day made me revisit SWTOR the other day and it was fun to go back, for a bit

OP does have a point though, either the game is fun or you stop playing (or take a break).

Mojmir · December 2018

Miserable being must find more miserable being,then...theyre happy.

SshadowSscale · December 2018

Lol wait are you seriously complaining about People complaining when your one of those People Who is always complaining???? 😂😂😂 At Least your not asking for unwanted and Random nerfs this time i guess lol

TheHsN · December 2018

The Game Wasnt This Bad Before i start playing this beta

Spend too much time and invest too much money to game.But game directions gone all wrong
So we LOVE this game and want to play like begining.And we want ZOS to correct their mistakes.
Living it is the Easiest way...And you cant leave something u love before you try to fix it....
What when ur car tires broke u throw your car away or try to fix tires...We want to fix the game to how it was when it started...So if there are mistakes we find them and talk about them to fix.I do not see any problem with that...Instead of doing nothing and playing game with all those mistakes it has(bugs ,lags,balance issues,game play issues,performance issues etc.) we try to point them...And im sure it is more usefull for game and ZOS

Emmagoldman · December 2018

You're completely right. I also love the comment about being "original" while there are a ridiculous amount of posts that repeat. For me, I will post about the crappy work of the combat development team and because of it I play once a week choosing to use my time irl.

This topic will have a lot of backlash as it addresses addiction, ego and self efficacy, along with impulse and self control. We all know people that play sun up to sun down and are could be hearing from people around them something similar.

As for the comment about age demographics, the average video game player is 35. This isnt just a youngin thing