Too much negativity toward the ZOS’ Dev team

Claudman · November 2018

My only problem is everyone treats the Devs who have nothing to do with combat balancing with malice. In example, yelling at a WRITER about COMBAT CHANGES (or complaining about the writing of a DLC just because they didn't like the balancing). It's not their job to report your complaints and manage those changes, guys. You're looking for the combat designer, not the writer, artist or even the actor.

Ragnarock41 · November 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Players like the OP are one reason why the game is what it is. There are apparently legions of players for whom the pretty visuals are enough, that are content with just questing, and therefore never encounter or even recognize the plethora of bugs at all. And that’s why it’s baffling to them anyone could criticize the devs. As long as that kind of player type is in the majority there is no reason for ZOS to change anything. It works for them so far I guess.

Majority of gamers are happy with mediocrity. Thats why cod gets away with doing the exact same game every year. Not really an ESO specific thing.

crjs1 · November 2018

I’m not a hater and think some of the vitriol against the dev’s is over the top and too personal. But please... as paying customers it is of course right that people should feel open to complain and complain vocally. The performance and lag and questionable (that’s being generous) balance changes have been for many baffling. And in terms of performance it’s getting worse rather than better and, while I’m sure it’s not the case, focus from ZOS seems to be on the crown store and monetisation rather than addressing the growing list of bugs and performance issues.

[Deleted User] · November 2018

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several comments for flaming, baiting and bashing, all being against the Forum Rules. While criticism is perfectly fine, it must be provided constructively and respectfully. Along with this, there will always be someone with a different view on the topic, there's no reason to be rude towards another forum member for having a different point of view, this, of course, goes towards all sides of this discussion. For the continuation of this discussion please be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

MaxwellC · November 2018

@rexagamemnon
Mate no offense but please space out your sentences when you create a paragraph and also make some corrections like I really couldn't get some of your points due to incorrect grammar.

I honestly feel I know more about my class than the combat dev especially when one combat dev literally said "DKs do not need an execute, they should wait for an ally to execute the enemy"; Now that's paraphrasing but surely not exaggerated.
I honestly don't need to make the case that I believe I have more knowledge of my class, simply look at the patch notes from ICP - thieves guild or clockwork and compare them to the most recent one.

When you try to add a "Unique way for Stam DKs to regain resources" when they in the past nerfed it completely, you tend to question "What are they thinking, before it worked and now you continue to make random changes so that it'll hit a mark".

Players including myself have complained about PvP experiences in terms of performance for years and seriously anyone denying that PvP is a lag-fest with abilities firing off in 5 second delay or potions simply not working... has not played PvP enough. Show me one game where performance issues where left in this state for 4 years.

I'll conclude with this. I have no doubt the staff at ZOS love their game, as anyone who invests time in a craft or anything in general will begin to love it but please spare me the "We're too hard on ZOS" talk. People complain sometimes viciously (guilty of that but I feel it was warranted after that DK change) but all that shows in my eyes is how passionate people are about the game they play.

P.S My favorite Dev is still ZOS Brian Wheeler because he's that guy who you know is giving it 200%.

rexagamemnon · November 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

@rexagamemnon
Mate no offense but please space out your sentences when you create a paragraph and also make some corrections like I really couldn't get some of your points due to incorrect grammar.

I honestly feel I know more about my class than the combat dev especially when one combat dev literally said "DKs do not need an execute, they should wait for an ally to execute the enemy"; Now that's paraphrasing but surely not exaggerated.
I honestly don't need to make the case that I believe I have more knowledge of my class, simply look at the patch notes from ICP - thieves guild or clockwork and compare them to the most recent one.

When you try to add a "Unique way for Stam DKs to regain resources" when they in the past nerfed it completely, you tend to question "What are they thinking, before it worked and now you continue to make random changes so that it'll hit a mark".

Players including myself have complained about PvP experiences in terms of performance for years and seriously anyone denying that PvP is a lag-fest with abilities firing off in 5 second delay or potions simply not working... has not played PvP enough. Show me one game where performance issues where left in this state for 4 years.

I'll conclude with this. I have no doubt the staff at ZOS love their game, as anyone who invests time in a craft or anything in general will begin to love it but please spare me the "We're too hard on ZOS" talk. People complain sometimes viciously (guilty of that but I feel it was warranted after that DK change) but all that shows in my eyes is how passionate people are about the game they play.

P.S My favorite Dev is still ZOS Brian Wheeler because he's that guy who you know is giving it 200%.

Lol ya ive never been great with grammer and punctuation. I blame it on the sub-par US public education system.

eso_lags · November 2018

rip

Bobby_V_Rockit · November 2018

Still better than Fallout 76

MerlinPendragon · November 2018

I also agree that all the ripping on ZoS on these forums is borderline absurd. Sure there are performance issues in PVP and every rebalance comes with winners and losers who have a right to voice their complaints, but these criticisms are often communicated in a manner that is more trollish than informational. It's a shame that a game as great as ESO has such a poisonous forums community. There is definitely a mob mentality here if you have an opinion that is in the minority. I have reduced my forums visits considerably over the past year.

I hope the ZoS developers know that the forums community only represents a small minority and takes some of the criticisms and bad suggestions from this group with a grain of salt.

LadyLethalla · November 2018

You can't please everyone 100% of the time, but the fact that major bugs go unaddressed for years at a time and lag increases with every new content patch is going to make a number of people unhappy, angry and/or leave. And that's without even thinking about nerfs.

Haashhtaag · November 2018

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several comments for flaming, baiting and bashing, all being against the Forum Rules. While criticism is perfectly fine, it must be provided constructively and respectfully. Along with this, there will always be someone with a different view on the topic, there's no reason to be rude towards another forum member for having a different point of view, this, of course, goes towards all sides of this discussion. For the continuation of this discussion please be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Exactly what we expected. Can do this type of moderation but not give feedback in regards to major game breaking issues.

Jaraal · November 2018

MerlinPendragon wrote: »

I hope the ZoS developers know that the forums community only represents a small minority and takes some of the criticisms and bad suggestions from this group with a grain of salt.

Conversely, the forum community is just a minuscule percentage of the millions of people actually having to deal with these issues.... in a far less educated fashion. We, as a group, may be more knowledgeable about the game because we come here to learn, ask questions, and see what other players are doing in situations similar to ours. The poor guy who knows nothing beyond what the loading screen tips tell him is out there scratching his head wondering "Why do my shields sucks today", "Why am I so slow", "Why is my pet dying all of a sudden", and banging his fist on the desk in frustration and rage quitting because he has no idea what's going on. So if anything, ZOS should be paying closer attention to the forum chatter because for every guy complaining here about dying to endless enchant procs, there's a thousand other guys out there even more upset about it than we are.

We have the responsibility to represent our fellow players who aren't here to speak for themselves. So it's important that our concerns are voiced, and that somebody is paying attention. One guy posting about uninstalling represents a thousand other folks not here who are moving on as well. The dialogue here is more important to ZOS's bottom line than some folks realize.

Sylvermynx · November 2018

Jaraal wrote: »

MerlinPendragon wrote: »

I hope the ZoS developers know that the forums community only represents a small minority and takes some of the criticisms and bad suggestions from this group with a grain of salt.

Conversely, the forum community is just a minuscule percentage of the millions of people actually having to deal with these issues.... in a far less educated fashion. We, as a group, may be more knowledgeable about the game because we come here to learn, ask questions, and see what other players are doing in situations similar to ours. The poor guy who knows nothing beyond what the loading screen tips tell him is out there scratching his head wondering "Why do my shields sucks today", "Why am I so slow", "Why is my pet dying all of a sudden", and banging his fist on the desk in frustration and rage quitting because he has no idea what's going on. So if anything, ZOS should be paying closer attention to the forum chatter because for every guy complaining here about dying to endless enchant procs, there's a thousand other guys out there even more upset about it than we are.

We have the responsibility to represent our fellow players who aren't here to speak for themselves. So it's important that our concerns are voiced, and that somebody is paying attention. One guy posting about uninstalling represents a thousand other folks not here who are moving on as well. The dialogue here is more important to ZOS's bottom line than some folks realize.

Hmm. I actually think the gaming community in any game these days is far more apt than that. All of us use the internet - otherwise we couldn't PLAY the game. I would bet that people come here a lot to find out what's going on, but don't bother to post.

The forum setup isn't a preferred mode for younger people - they like twitter, other social media. My nephew and his wife (mid 30s) think forums are "so 90s". My granddaughters (early and mid-20s) don't do social media at all, but do browse forums if they need information on something (not games - neither of them play games like this any more.... the days when my family could almost make up a full WoW raid group are long gone now....)

Jaraal · November 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

MerlinPendragon wrote: »

I hope the ZoS developers know that the forums community only represents a small minority and takes some of the criticisms and bad suggestions from this group with a grain of salt.

Conversely, the forum community is just a minuscule percentage of the millions of people actually having to deal with these issues.... in a far less educated fashion. We, as a group, may be more knowledgeable about the game because we come here to learn, ask questions, and see what other players are doing in situations similar to ours. The poor guy who knows nothing beyond what the loading screen tips tell him is out there scratching his head wondering "Why do my shields sucks today", "Why am I so slow", "Why is my pet dying all of a sudden", and banging his fist on the desk in frustration and rage quitting because he has no idea what's going on. So if anything, ZOS should be paying closer attention to the forum chatter because for every guy complaining here about dying to endless enchant procs, there's a thousand other guys out there even more upset about it than we are.

We have the responsibility to represent our fellow players who aren't here to speak for themselves. So it's important that our concerns are voiced, and that somebody is paying attention. One guy posting about uninstalling represents a thousand other folks not here who are moving on as well. The dialogue here is more important to ZOS's bottom line than some folks realize.

Hmm. I actually think the gaming community in any game these days is far more apt than that. All of us use the internet - otherwise we couldn't PLAY the game. I would bet that people come here a lot to find out what's going on, but don't bother to post.

The forum setup isn't a preferred mode for younger people - they like twitter, other social media. My nephew and his wife (mid 30s) think forums are "so 90s". My granddaughters (early and mid-20s) don't do social media at all, but do browse forums if they need information on something (not games - neither of them play games like this any more.... the days when my family could almost make up a full WoW raid group are long gone now....)

If you look at the topics pages in most of the forum categories, you'll notice that the views on any given thread range from under 100 to the low four figures, and a good number of those views are repeat views by the same few people. And ZOS claims "millions" of active players, so there aren't as many people here as you may think.

Sylvermynx · November 2018

My guess is that if you aren't logged in, no "view" is recorded. So a million players could be reading threads, but no one would know.

I run forums on several sites (gaming and otherwise). I use phpbb3, but most forum software works the same way: if one isn't logged in, one can read for hours, days, years but no views are recorded. I don't know what software ZOS uses here - could be proprietary. And I don't know if it actually fails to record views from those not logged in. Just a guess on my part.

Elsonso · November 2018

Sylvermynx wrote: »

My guess is that if you aren't logged in, no "view" is recorded. So a million players could be reading threads, but no one would know.

I run forums on several sites (gaming and otherwise). I use phpbb3, but most forum software works the same way: if one isn't logged in, one can read for hours, days, years but no views are recorded. I don't know what software ZOS uses here - could be proprietary. And I don't know if it actually fails to record views from those not logged in. Just a guess on my part.

They use Vanilla forum software, hosted by Vanilla.

Claudman · November 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several comments for flaming, baiting and bashing, all being against the Forum Rules. While criticism is perfectly fine, it must be provided constructively and respectfully. Along with this, there will always be someone with a different view on the topic, there's no reason to be rude towards another forum member for having a different point of view, this, of course, goes towards all sides of this discussion. For the continuation of this discussion please be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Exactly what we expected. Can do this type of moderation but not give feedback in regards to major game breaking issues.

Forum Moderators =/= Gameplay Designers.
Two completely different jobs, dude. You're pretty much yelling at the cashier (or stock worker) because of the manager's decisions.

Perwulf · November 2018

Much of these "Negativity" was just rant threads. You'll barely see negativity threads that matters where most of the community are voicing their concerns but with the right reason and without the voice of such people, the game would be in a far worst state that could eventually lead to death.

yodased · November 2018

Wait, you seriously believe the development staff read the forums on a regular enough basis to be affected by them?

Maybe thats why we dont get complete fixes, they spend all their time on the forums.

jcm2606 · November 2018

If you think Zenimax is doing a good job with ESO, go play Warframe. A free-to-play MMO-lite, where the devs regularly interact with the community in more ways than Zenimax does, and the devs aren't afraid to completely rework systems within the game if players want it.

DE completely reworked the movement system of the game to officially incorporate an old bug that basically added "animation cancelling" to different movement states, allowing players to chain together movement actions, such as running, jumping, rolling, sliding, spinning, aiming down weapon sights, and use of melee weapons, into one cohesive movement.

Let that sink in. DE wrote a movement system for Warframe, which had a bug that players absolutely loved as it made the game more fun to play. Rather than fix the bug, they completely rewrote the movement system to officially incorporate it.

Do you really think Zenimax would do this for ESO? Do you think they would care so much about the community, that they'd be willing to completely scrap everything they've done in one particular aspect of the game, to make that aspect more fun for players, even if it goes against their beliefs as developers? No, they wouldn't.

This was shown in Murkmire, where they fixed a "bug" that allowed players to switch skills and quickslot items if they're own character wasn't in combat, regardless of the group. If Zenimax actually cared about the community in the way that DE does, they wouldn't have just left this "bug" in. They would have reworked the combat state to be better for the players.

I truly think ESO going F2P would do some good, as it would serve as a monumental reality check for Zenimax, assuming they're willing to change their ways. If ESO were to go F2P now, I sincerely doubt it would survive, because Zenimax genuinely doesn't care about its community, not in the way they should.

Exodium · November 2018

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several comments for flaming, baiting and bashing, all being against the Forum Rules. While criticism is perfectly fine, it must be provided constructively and respectfully. Along with this, there will always be someone with a different view on the topic, there's no reason to be rude towards another forum member for having a different point of view, this, of course, goes towards all sides of this discussion. For the continuation of this discussion please be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

I'm going to say this as CONSTRUCTIVELY and RESPECTFULLY as possible. Why is it that the only time we hear from you on these forums it's to police threads instead of actually engaging with the ideas in them?

Acrolas · November 2018

Exodium wrote: »

I'm going to say this as CONSTRUCTIVELY and RESPECTFULLY as possible. Why is it that the only time we hear from you on these forums it's to police threads instead of actually engaging with the ideas in them?

...you're asking forum moderation staff why they are forum moderation staff?

macsmooth · November 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

I'm going to say this as CONSTRUCTIVELY and RESPECTFULLY as possible. Why is it that the only time we hear from you on these forums it's to police threads instead of actually engaging with the ideas in them?

...you're asking forum moderation staff why they are forum moderation staff?

As much as I agree with you that these people are forum moderators and not the combat department they all work for the same bosses at the end of the day,

What the forum staff should be doing is cataloging all the issues that people have with all areas of the game and passing that on to the combat team, the story writers, graphics and visuals department or god forbid the complaints department.

Vapirko · November 2018

Well yes and no. As an MMO, ESO is probably the most good looking game and in theory the most fun. It’s well designed aesthetically and in general the UI and everything is great, or has come a long way. But ZOS really keeps dropping the ball on some core mechanics and important functions of the game. They clearly have a very hard time with incremental changes, group finders for dungeons and BGs is still buggy, their servers/engine/coding can’t handle the large scale PvP that they not only advertise but tend to push players towards through nerfs to solo and small scale play. Dungeons and trials retain bugs for years, they continually promise one thing and then completely fail to deliver or go in the opposite direction. It might not be the devs fault entirely, only ZOS employees know what’s really up, but ZOS in general has taken a fantastic game and made it really frustrating to play for everyone except complete casuals. I mean for heavens sake we still need to switch zones to get mail, and there still isn’t any good built in search function for guild stores.

Mureel · November 2018

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So i read one post after another about people being upset with ZOS for one reason after another. Very rarely do i see real legitament concerns brought up, and 99% of the time it is addressed in the forum section. But the truth is The Dev team on ESO is doing really well. Think about it they make an effort to bring new content every couple months, how many MMORPGs do that or are even able to? Sure there are some real concerns, ive complained about not being able to move content across servers and server performance at times and how the new mounts are always a reskin and the mounts aren’t really an important issue as much as i rip on ZOS in the forum section but other than that, i think they are doing great. Everyday i see a new post about the balancing in the game, and people are so uptight about balancing in the game as if they are experts and that they no better than the engineers of this game. But more often than not ots because someone is sore about their favorite class getting a balance to level the playing field for everyone when they want a leg up on the competition. I get it, i was upset when my templar lost major mending. But its always people get so bent out of shape over little stuff. The newest example is the sorc and the shields, hate to break it to you but they definately needed to be balanced with everyone else in pvp. When a sorc can take on 15 players and survive for 20min without dying due to stacked shields, thats ridiculas and not balanced. So thank you @ZOS for doing a good job.

I really do not think, with all the current issues, that ZOS needs your own personal attaboy! right now.

People are frustrated with ZOS because manyh of us all say the same thing over and over - and they just never seem to take any notice.

Performance issues, lag and combat balance are huge problems in this game.

Your concerns are mainly cosmetic and convenience issues which leads me to believe that you have 0 experience with actual End Game content, which is where most the most serious issues lie.

If you played what we are playing when we raise these issues, your opinion would change, I assure you.

I don't think you are talking about the same things at all, that we're talking about and your post shows it.

Miswar · November 2018

ZOS_AntonioP wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several comments for flaming, baiting and bashing, all being against the Forum Rules. While criticism is perfectly fine, it must be provided constructively and respectfully. Along with this, there will always be someone with a different view on the topic, there's no reason to be rude towards another forum member for having a different point of view, this, of course, goes towards all sides of this discussion. For the continuation of this discussion please be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

It seens that stating the following facts is againts forum rules:

1. Your PvP servers are joke. Performance is abysmal and it is getting worse and worse. What do we get from developers? Ignorance and SILENCE without any action.

2. Overall performance is getting and you will have long loading screens across the board pve. What do we get from developers? Ignorance and Silence.

3. There are tons of major bugs ie. trials..? What do we get from developers? Ignorance and mostly silence. These issues have been ongoing for weeks without any fixes. If you finally will pinpoint what are breaking these it will take WEEKS these fixes to get into console population. Assuming you will even do pinpoint it.

4. Currently skills function if they function. These new feature has become with nerfmire dlc. As for any fixes or improvements if anything. I doubt it.

5. The combat changes overall seems like blind man throwing darts at wall. People have constructively said how bad these have been and what do we get? Ignorance and pretty much nothing gets reworked.

I could go on with this list but you get the picture. It ain't about negative comments by your paying customers getting ignored monts after monhts.

So... my bad that these were againts "forum rules". I have 0 sympathhy left for this and it seems that mother company Bethesda is doing dejavuu with your other products.

Hopefully people are finally getting fed by this constant ignorance and maybe 1 day something gets actually fixed on ESO.

Mureel · November 2018

Drummerx04 wrote: »

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So i read one post after another about people being upset with ZOS for one reason after another. Very rarely do i see real legitament concerns brought up, and 99% of the time it is addressed in the forum section. But the truth is The Dev team on ESO is doing really well. Think about it they make an effort to bring new content every couple months, how many MMORPGs do that or are even able to? Sure there are some real concerns, ive complained about not being able to move content across servers and server performance at times and how the new mounts are always a reskin and the mounts aren’t really an important issue as much as i rip on ZOS in the forum section but other than that, i think they are doing great. Everyday i see a new post about the balancing in the game, and people are so uptight about balancing in the game as if they are experts and that they no better than the engineers of this game. But more often than not ots because someone is sore about their favorite class getting a balance to level the playing field for everyone when they want a leg up on the competition. I get it, i was upset when my templar lost major mending. But its always people get so bent out of shape over little stuff. The newest example is the sorc and the shields, hate to break it to you but they definately needed to be balanced with everyone else in pvp. When a sorc can take on 15 players and survive for 20min without dying due to stacked shields, thats ridiculas and not balanced. So thank you @ZOS for doing a good job.

Keep in mind that some of us have been here for 3+ years of nearly continuous gameplay across quite literally dozens of patches, content releases, introductions of monetization schemes.

The devs that MAKE the dungeons and trials cannot complete them with the classes and characters that they "balance" however the players in the ESO community CAN clear that content reliably on multiple classes and roles.

Some of us have been theory crafting builds for years, we've formed and lead vet trials groups and pvp groups both large and small, we've finished all the content in the entire game dozens upon dozens of times, and we also COMMUNICATE with each other to fill in the gaps of our knowledge for certain builds, play styles, or content.

We absolutely know every aspect of this game and have followed every tweak, nerf, buff, or complete alteration to skill usage that Wrobel has slapped together over the years.

When veteran players make a complaint about a nerf, change, bug, exploit, or performance issues... we aren't just complaining for the sake of hearing our own voice. We actually know what we are talking about. While you see a sorc tanking 15 players like some sort of god, we see a sorc using the terrain and all available magicka, stamina, and ultimate resources to barely survive against players doing nothing but spamming snipe and light attacks (hence unskilled).

WINNER! Right here. The Original post actually made me pretty cross. I am glad I saw this!

rexagamemnon · November 2018

Mureel wrote: »

rexagamemnon wrote: »

So i read one post after another about people being upset with ZOS for one reason after another. Very rarely do i see real legitament concerns brought up, and 99% of the time it is addressed in the forum section. But the truth is The Dev team on ESO is doing really well. Think about it they make an effort to bring new content every couple months, how many MMORPGs do that or are even able to? Sure there are some real concerns, ive complained about not being able to move content across servers and server performance at times and how the new mounts are always a reskin and the mounts aren’t really an important issue as much as i rip on ZOS in the forum section but other than that, i think they are doing great. Everyday i see a new post about the balancing in the game, and people are so uptight about balancing in the game as if they are experts and that they no better than the engineers of this game. But more often than not ots because someone is sore about their favorite class getting a balance to level the playing field for everyone when they want a leg up on the competition. I get it, i was upset when my templar lost major mending. But its always people get so bent out of shape over little stuff. The newest example is the sorc and the shields, hate to break it to you but they definately needed to be balanced with everyone else in pvp. When a sorc can take on 15 players and survive for 20min without dying due to stacked shields, thats ridiculas and not balanced. So thank you @ZOS for doing a good job.

I really do not think, with all the current issues, that ZOS needs your own personal attaboy! right now.

People are frustrated with ZOS because manyh of us all say the same thing over and over - and they just never seem to take any notice.

Performance issues, lag and combat balance are huge problems in this game.

Your concerns are mainly cosmetic and convenience issues which leads me to believe that you have 0 experience with actual End Game content, which is where most the most serious issues lie.

If you played what we are playing when we raise these issues, your opinion would change, I assure you.

I don't think you are talking about the same things at all, that we're talking about and your post shows it.

You clearly didnt read everything i wrote in the forum, addressed the fact about the server performance Nd how that is an issue, you are just upset that someone for ince has an overall good attitude on the forum towards the dev.

Att1Tude · November 2018

So you're saying its absurd to say the game is way too laggy/buggy to play which you actually pay real money for. You dont get awesome from me atleast. For we are many.

DanteYoda · November 2018

ATomiX96 wrote: »

idk how to rotate text in paint

Well said, saved me the time.