The Question about Unwanted Mounts from Crates and Crown Gems

IronWooshu · November 2018

Why can I not convert my unwanted mounts from crates into crown gems?

I find it so hard to get crown gems and the new mounts are always at a really high cost (400 crown gems). At this point it is just beyond greedy that you want me to spend $200 dollars on crown crates only to open them hoping I get duplicates so I can extract gems from them.

I've been a ESO+ member for a year now and just signed on for another 6 months, I've bought the Merchant and Banker as well as appearance and race changes and it's like I dont give you enough money.

~ Here's two ideas ~

- Give ESO+ members 100 crown gems every month as a bonus.

- Allow us to convert unwanted mounts and aesthetics into crown gems (mounts should give like 80 to 100 crown gems).

All in all you need to expand on the ways of crown gems or just scrap loot boxes and allow me to spend money on exactly what I want removing crown gems in the process.

(Excuse me for my brevity as I am typing on my phone)

MLGProPlayer · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

I find it so hard to get crown gems and the new mounts are always at a really high cost (400 crown gems).

That's the point.

They aren't supposed to be easy to obtain. ZOS wants you to buy more crates.

IronWooshu · November 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

I find it so hard to get crown gems and the new mounts are always at a really high cost (400 crown gems).

That's the point.

They aren't supposed to be easy to obtain. ZOS wants you to buy more crates.

So I am assuming you agree with this business practice?

The way I see it is, with all the ways to make money in this game buying crates should be more rewarding. The crown gem system is the most unrewarding system which in turn makes me not want to buy crown crates because I hate gambling.

Its archaic and needs an overhaul.

Gatviper · November 2018

Not claiming to know the actual result of ZoSs incomes and spendings on game's design (and the cheap servers, must be cheap with all the lag), I'd think the ESO+ subscriptions and DLC (Chapter) purchases alone don't cover the neccesities and the Crown Shop provides the additional revenue, of which the Crown Crates arguably would play the bigger part due to all the tempting cosmetics.
So it's understandable that they wouldn't want to easily give away everything in the Crown Crates, but would like people to actually spend money on them.

That in turn enables people to be able to play the base game with pretty much all the benefits without the ones DLCs give, and without needing to pay for ESO+.

IronWooshu · November 2018

Gatviper wrote: »

the Crown Shop provides the additional revenue, of which the Crown Crates arguably would play the bigger part due to all the tempting cosmetics.
So it's understandable that they wouldn't want to easily give away everything in the Crown Crates, but would like people to actually spend money on them.

It also plays the opposite for people who don't like to gamble. The only way for the current system to work is for them to stop watering down the crown crates with crap items, the pool is too big with filler that it makes it even less appealing.

In this day and age I can go to amazon and shop other sites and buy exactly what I want with no headache. Imagine if amazon and other shopping sites had it so you get a random item from the site in the price range that you paid? Let's say you really wanted a *** shirt and you pay $40 and you get the ugly Reebok shirt with no refund.

Amazon and other sites would go out of business so fast with that model and maybe that is why ZoS seems money starved because people don't want to gamble with low odds.

I outlined two suitable ways for people to gain Crown Crates, one allowing us to convert unwanted mounts and aesthetics to crown gems and two, get more ESO+ sold with 100 crown gems every month.

Both of those ideas allow for the system to relatively stay the same but adds extra ways to gain crown gems and yet people are defending a bad system because why?

How does the current system benefit you in anyways except make you spend more of your hard earned money on filler?

Gatviper · November 2018

It doesn't benefit me, and neither does it much bother me. It keeps the game running and that's fine. Extra ways to gain Crown Gems is less Crates bought. Nobody is forced to gamble on the Crates, you want the optional stuff, you see how it works.
There're many other, arguably more important issues with the game than guaranteed cosmetics from Crown Crates, and those other issues don't seem to get any necessary attention either. Hardly any more likely chance the Crown Crate system is going to be changed anytime soon.

IronWooshu · November 2018

Gatviper wrote: »

Crown Gems is less Crates bought.

I've already stopped purchasing crown crates as have others. There is a middle ground which both my suggestions make crown crates more appealing or allows ZoS to cash in on more ESO+ Subscribers.

My suggestions are a win all around, the fact that they may do nothing about it. You are probably right but if no one stands up for whats wrong, no change will ever happen.

Nyladreas · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

Gatviper wrote: »

Crown Gems is less Crates bought.

I've already stopped purchasing crown crates as have others. There is a middle ground which both my suggestions make crown crates more appealing or allows ZoS to cash in on more ESO+ Subscribers.

My suggestions are a win all around, the fact that they may do nothing about it. You are probably right but if no one stands up for whats wrong, no change will ever happen.

Welcome to 2018 where standing up for something on the Internet is too much for most. Lol.

Itacira · November 2018

Nyladreas wrote: »

Welcome to 2018 where standing up for something on the Internet is too much for most. Lol.

I never thought of it like that but it actually makes a lot of sense. Well put.

Shezzarrine · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

Gatviper wrote: »

Crown Gems is less Crates bought.

I've already stopped purchasing crown crates as have others. There is a middle ground which both my suggestions make crown crates more appealing or allows ZoS to cash in on more ESO+ Subscribers.

My suggestions are a win all around, the fact that they may do nothing about it. You are probably right but if no one stands up for whats wrong, no change will ever happen.

I personally dislike crown crates and don't buy them, but I don't think you understand ZoS's position very well. If their marketing research showed something like your suggestion would be more profitable than the current iteration then they would do it. No offense to you, but their marketing team has much more insight into how to make many than you.

Another point is that they aren't looking for everyone to buy crates. Why? Because they are looking for whales, and there are plenty spending enough to compensate for you and others not spending money on crates. It's sad, but it's true.

It's a sad practice, and should be overhauled, not for profit, but for the enjoyment of the loyal players. But ZoS is a company, and very few companies would accept less money for a slightly happier playerbase unfortunately.

Banana · November 2018

Everything you dont want should be able to be converted.

wolf486 · November 2018

Mounts are a cosmetic thing and crown crates are optional and not required so overall idc, but I do agree anything from crown crates should have the option to be turned into gems.

Got a sweet roll recently from one which gave me a sweet 400 gems. Bought that bear mount for 100 and will save the rest for new life to see what mounts come out.

As for getting 100 gems (or any amount) with ESO+. Won't complain if they do include it, but again not going to complain if they don't.

JKorr · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

Gatviper wrote: »

the Crown Shop provides the additional revenue, of which the Crown Crates arguably would play the bigger part due to all the tempting cosmetics.
So it's understandable that they wouldn't want to easily give away everything in the Crown Crates, but would like people to actually spend money on them.

It also plays the opposite for people who don't like to gamble. The only way for the current system to work is for them to stop watering down the crown crates with crap items, the pool is too big with filler that it makes it even less appealing.

In this day and age I can go to amazon and shop other sites and buy exactly what I want with no headache. Imagine if amazon and other shopping sites had it so you get a random item from the site in the price range that you paid? Let's say you really wanted a *** shirt and you pay $40 and you get the ugly Reebok shirt with no refund.

Amazon and other sites would go out of business so fast with that model and maybe that is why ZoS seems money starved because people don't want to gamble with low odds.

I outlined two suitable ways for people to gain Crown Crates, one allowing us to convert unwanted mounts and aesthetics to crown gems and two, get more ESO+ sold with 100 crown gems every month.

Both of those ideas allow for the system to relatively stay the same but adds extra ways to gain crown gems and yet people are defending a bad system because why?

How does the current system benefit you in anyways except make you spend more of your hard earned money on filler?

According to the official statement about what the crown crates are guaranteed to have every time, you are misunderstanding what exactly it is you are buying, when you buy a crown crate.

Your example of going to Amazon and buying exactly what you want doesn't really apply to the crown crates. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25871

This Thursday, we'll be introducing the first season of Crown Crates to the ESO Crown Store. Crown Crates are purchased through the Crown Store, and contain a randomized selection of useful consumables and collectibles that are valued more than the price of a single crate. In addition, they also offer a chance to obtain unique cosmetic items, pets, or mounts. Crown Crates include new and exclusive items, as well as some items you might have missed in previous limited time offers.

The ostensible reason anyone buys crown crates is for the "useful consumables". They don't promise you will definitely get anything more than that. You do get the consumables. Every crate, every single time. So you are getting what you bought. "A chance to obtain" is just that, a chance at getting apex or radiant apex items.

If you went to Amazon and bought your specific shirt, and they threw in extra stuff that had a *slight chance* of including a custom made monogrammed silk shirt with solid gold buttons, *or* including the ugly Reebok shirt, that might be more like the crown crates.

VaranisArano · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

I find it so hard to get crown gems and the new mounts are always at a really high cost (400 crown gems).

That's the point.

They aren't supposed to be easy to obtain. ZOS wants you to buy more crates.

So I am assuming you agree with this business practice?

The way I see it is, with all the ways to make money in this game buying crates should be more rewarding. The crown gem system is the most unrewarding system which in turn makes me not want to buy crown crates because I hate gambling.

Its archaic and needs an overhaul.

I don't agree with it, but I do understand it.

Crown gems are not there for the consumer's benefit. Heck, Crown Crates arent there for the consumer's benefit. If ZOS wanted to benefit the consumer, they'd sell everything in those crown crates for crowns in the Crown Store.

Crown Crates exist to make ZOS more profit than they would from listing those items separately as people gamble to get what they want instead of useless items they don't. Crown Gems, likewise, exist to convince people to keep gambling in hopes of getting either the item they want or to gain enough gems to buy the item.

Giving ESO+ members crown gems or letting them trash unwanted but non duplicate items for gems messes up that profit mechanism. Therefore, there's absolutely no reason for ZOS to do it.

I mean, I suppose ZOS could have a sudden change of heart and decide that less profit is worth making you and ESO+ members happy, but again, Crown Crates and Crown Gems are inherently hostile to consumer satisfaction to begin with.

You want an overhaul that actually satisfies every consumer and not just yourself? Ask ZOS to put all crown crate items in the Crown Store on sale for crowns.

Yeah, ZOS won't do it, anymore than they'll take your suggestion, because its about the profit, not consumer satisfaction.

And that's why I dont buy Crown Crates.

Kiralyn2000 · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

It also plays the opposite for people who don't like to gamble. The only way for the current system to work is for them to stop watering down the crown crates with crap items, the pool is too big with filler that it makes it even less appealing.

If you don't like to "gamble", don't buy crates. It's very simple.

And the crates being "watered down" with "filler" is the point. It's how just about every other "random buy" system works, going all the way back to baseball cards. It's how "loot boxes" work in every online game, it's how Magic The Gathering card packs work, it's how Grab Bags and Random Prize Draws work..... /shrug

(And no, I don't buy crates. I happily open all the free ones they throw my way - have gotten hundreds of gems that way! - but I'd never pay for them. The free ones I open have guaranteed that - they show me just how low the odds are of getting what you want.)

edit: as for your "this isn't how Amazon works!" thing.... well, duh. If you want to just buy things like on Amazon, that's what the rest of the Crown Store is. A listing of specific items with specific costs.

...and thinking about it, you can buy "random unknown crap" on Amazon - they sell 'blind box' collectable figures, CCG card packs, Kinder eggs, and other similar 'random loot' packs. And that also reminds me that I've seen "random stuff grab bags" sold on other e-commerce sites like tabletop game stores ("10 pounds of random miniatures!"), clothing stores ("5 random swimsuits!"), etc. A way for those stores to clear out old merchandise.

Katahdin · November 2018

While I agree with you, the crown crates are working as intended.

They are intended to make you spend more crowns than the item you want eould cost to buy more crates to get mostly junk with a tiny chance of getting exactly what you want.

I wish we could trade in unwanted things for gems too instead of automatically putting the first one in your account, but that would cause you to buy less crates and send less crowns.

I'd rather just buy what I want directly from the crown store.

I rarely buy crates, but there are people that drop 100s and 1000s of dollars on them to get what they want so those of us that don't buy don't matter.

iiYuki · November 2018

You'll never give ZO$ enough money, the only thing they care about is the cash shop and gamble crates its how they make the most money. One day they might invest some of it back into the game to fix the *** netcode and optimisation the game has rather than nerfing random abilities off the wheel of fortune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmUJWP_ebsQ

rexagamemnon · November 2018

No

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

From the very beginning they should allow to break ANY items from lootbox to gems (before you used them). I mean I don't really want those low-poly awful outfits to swarm my "collections" why I can't just turn them in gems.. same for 3 variants of horned hats (one is enough), 3 variants of dwemer breathers (one is enough), 3 dragon masks, 3 psijic caps etc etc etc

BretonMage · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

- Allow us to convert unwanted mounts and aesthetics into crown gems (mounts should give like 80 to 100 crown gems).

I definitely agree with this. If they want to ensure the rarity of crown gems, I wouldn't mind if they reduced the trade-in amount, but really, it's absolutely maddening that they're forcing unwanted mounts into our collection. It makes the idea of crown crates extremely unappealing.

Acrolas · November 2018

Gems are a crate-exclusive currency that allows you to manage your consumables inventory awarded from crates without resorting to destroying them.

As collectibles do not take up inventory space, you only receive gems upon a duplicate collectible reward.

Your mileage will vary regarding your opinion on crates, but as we're nearing the ninth season the collectibles management system is highly unlikely to change. And you really just don't know when an adornment, mount, or furnishing you don't really like now will fit a character you haven't made yet or a house we haven't seen.

laereal · November 2018

I also would like to turn unwanted items into gems. I dont really want my collections tabs to be cluttered but I think its the least they can do to give more customer satisfaction. That way they can work their way towards items they actually like and not get stuck with things they don't want.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

Discussion at ZOS's:

Community manager: paying players who donate want to convert unnecessary cosmetics to gems, this will improve their QoL KPI we are aiming for!

Big guy, sales manager: they will definitely buy less crown crates then and about QoL - who cares about those freaks who play such games like your MMO. I don't know or care what you are doing down there, just bring more money.

JKorr · November 2018

When the crown crates were first trialed on the pts, everyone got 5500 crowns a day to buy crown crates. Everyone who bought the max number of crates every day for at least 10 days commented on the hundreds of poisons, potions, and food that no one wanted or used, since crafters could make the same or better stuff. The thread is/was hundreds of posts long, with the main point being no one was going to bother with the crates because of the useless consumables. Not to mention the cosmetic stuff for characters players didn't have and wouldn't make, like argonians or khajiit with horns, jaw blades and ear tufts. Being able to trade in unwanted items was mentioned. Gina posted that they would consider the changes from the feedback. They didn't make the changes for the pts, the changes went live with the changes.

When the crates went live is when the "trade in consumables" for 1/3 the value in gems started. Still didn't listen about the unwanted cosmetics, but it could have been worse; not being able to trade anything back.

AlienatedGoat · November 2018

I have ~100 pets and ~60 mounts. I only use maybe 1/4 of them.

I've never wanted most of these and just got them through crates, giveaways, etc.

I'd prefer to be able to deconstruct the ones I don't want from crates. The clutter is getting real.

Kiralyn2000 · November 2018

I feel like a lot of people don't understand the basic concept of loot boxes.

They're supposed to be full of stuff you don't want - if you could just get what you wanted, you wouldn't have to keep opening more of them.

And being able to just trade in any collectables for gems (rather than duplicates) would do that exact thing - make it too easy for you to get exactly what you want, and not buy crates.

This isn't a bug. It's a feature.

(and be happy ESO's boxes even have the "gems for dupes" thing... worse loot boxes just say "oh, look a dupe. Sucks to be you.")

AlienatedGoat · November 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people don't understand the basic concept of loot boxes.

They're supposed to be full of stuff you don't want - if you could just get what you wanted, you wouldn't have to keep opening more of them.

And being able to just trade in any collectables for gems (rather than duplicates) would do that exact thing - make it too easy for you to get exactly what you want, and not buy crates.

This isn't a bug. It's a feature.

(and be happy ESO's boxes even have the "gems for dupes" thing... worse loot boxes just say "oh, look a dupe. Sucks to be you.")

I understand the concept of what companies want with loot boxes.

I also understand that consumer-friendly business practices aren't won with silence.

spartaxoxo · November 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

I find it so hard to get crown gems and the new mounts are always at a really high cost (400 crown gems).

That's the point.

They aren't supposed to be easy to obtain. ZOS wants you to buy more crates.

Yeah but if you get one you don't like you should at least be able to trash it for half the gems.

spartaxoxo · November 2018

IronWooshu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

IronWooshu wrote: »

I find it so hard to get crown gems and the new mounts are always at a really high cost (400 crown gems).

That's the point.

They aren't supposed to be easy to obtain. ZOS wants you to buy more crates.

So I am assuming you agree with this business practice?

The way I see it is, with all the ways to make money in this game buying crates should be more rewarding. The crown gem system is the most unrewarding system which in turn makes me not want to buy crown crates because I hate gambling.

Its archaic and needs an overhaul.

My guess would be that it would be hard for them to let you trash an unlockable, you can't do lesser ones into gems either.

laereal · November 2018

My guess would be that it would be hard for them to let you trash an unlockable, you can't do lesser ones into gems either.

Do you mean collection items? If so i did suspect that, but the game seems to differentiate between consumables that were from crates and those that were not, and they did it retroactively too so non-crate items cannot be gemmed prior to the the existence of crown crates. They probably could implement something similar to collection items if they wanted to but if it might be hard to do if they didnt consider doing that in the first place.

In any case, the advantaged one in this transaction was always skewed heavily towards ZOS when it comes to loot crates. Considering that converting consumables into gems doesnt even give us half of the item's value, there are some of us that would like to be a little less screwed over in this deal.

JKorr · November 2018

The thing is, you're not "screwed over". The crates give you what they promise. The whole point of the crates' existence is to get people to buy more crates. Letting people trade back even the consumable items for gems was a concession on their part because they realized even the most ocd collector wouldn't put up with several thousand poisons, potions, food, and scrolls they didn't want or couldn't/wouldn't use. There is no way they could allow a one to one trade back, or even a half value trade back for all the poisons, potions, and food. People would have more than enough gems in a very short time to buy outright whatever they wanted. In fact, I think that is what caused the radiant apex rewards; people said "Well, I got enough gems to buy the mount I wanted, so I can ignore the crates until they release something else I want." Cue radiant apex mounts that can't be bought with gems.....