What are Zenimax’s Plans for Stamina Dragonknight.

montjie · November 2018

@Hochstapler
Why dont you be a good little stamblade and cloak away.
Oh wait, I see why you reared your ugly little head. I'm outnumbered.

Carry on.

Ocelot9x · November 2018

@montjie
I appreciate your post but I see that your main experience is non cp campaign. Even tho my non cp experience is limited ( since I almost played only cp campaigns) i agree with you that Stam dk is fine in that kind of environment. In nocp you rarely have a stalemate,thing that happen quite regularly on vivec. I used to run a tava,blood spawn and werewolf hide with asylum main bar (no damage sets at all) and still being capable of killing tanky opponents thanks to how nocp works. But in cp campaign is different. You need to invest in damage to be able to have a chance on killing those 29k health dudes,but with the amount of pressure 2 or 3 people can put on you’ll need a decent uptime on things like wings and major mending. Also generally on no cp whoever hits first has the upper hand for the whole fight so I see how a bow dk ganking build can work. But things are different in cp campaign.
You should really spend some time playing a cp campaign with your stamina dk and then use the same set on another stamina class,it will perform better

Hochstapler · November 2018

montjie wrote: »

@Hochstapler
Why dont you be a good little stamblade and cloak away.
Oh wait, I see why you reared your ugly little head. I'm outnumbered.

Carry on.

What in the world are you blabbing about kid?

Aurielle · November 2018

I love my stamDK in BGs. It took a while to figure it out, but it definitely has a unique class feel to it. I’m running dual wield and 2H: Bloodspawn, Fury, Cyrodiil’s Ward (on DW backbar) with an Asylum 2H on my front bar. The high ultimate uptime means lots of leaps. My dual infused Cyrodiil’s Ward swords add decent enchant damage while also proccing the five piece bonus (major defile) every five seconds. The DK’s innate tankiness helps me to survive while quickly racking up Fury stacks. Wings, igneous shield, and volatile armour keep me alive very well. Since the primary burst rotation involves Take Flight, it feels VERY unique. I can’t replicate it on any other class.

If you’re willing to stray outside the meta, you can have a lot of fun with your DKs in BGs. You don’t HAVE to use Dawnbreaker if you don’t want to.

Hochstapler · November 2018

I never use Dawnbreaker on my StamDK as well.
Flight and Corrosive is what works for me best.
And axes, can't do without them bleeds sowwy.
If I'm bleeding 90% of the time in BGs, so will my opponents too lol

And I'm using Cyrodill's Ward as well in few of my BG builds.
Tried to switch it with the new healing set batallion somethin?
Didn't like it, got back to CW.

Hochstapler · November 2018

Double post

montjie · November 2018

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@montjie
I appreciate your post but I see that your main experience is non cp campaign. Even tho my non cp experience is limited ( since I almost played only cp campaigns) i agree with you that Stam dk is fine in that kind of environment. In nocp you rarely have a stalemate,thing that happen quite regularly on vivec. I used to run a tava,blood spawn and werewolf hide with asylum main bar (no damage sets at all) and still being capable of killing tanky opponents thanks to how nocp works. But in cp campaign is different. You need to invest in damage to be able to have a chance on killing those 29k health dudes,but with the amount of pressure 2 or 3 people can put on you’ll need a decent uptime on things like wings and major mending. Also generally on no cp whoever hits first has the upper hand for the whole fight so I see how a bow dk ganking build can work. But things are different in cp campaign.
You should really spend some time playing a cp campaign with your stamina dk and then use the same set on another stamina class,it will perform better

Lets not get lost here. This thread was created because supposedly Stamdks are useless because they cant use their class abilities because most are magicka based and therefor cant be sustained. Thats the subject of this thread and the only thing I have addressed and am addressing. Lets not dwindle on other matters because you guys keep changing the subject bit by bit to dk performances overall which this is NOT about so lets stay on subject please.

I have played in Vivec. On my stamdk, magdk, stamsorc and magplar. I never changed my builds and I found playing in Vivec to be MUCH more forgiving than on AS/SS. Its literally your character being on steroids which is why...again...I'm baffled the complaints about mag sustain are coming from the CP environment. It just doesnt add up

https://youtube.com/watch?v=q-kPPIMr-a8
He MUST be using cheat engine or something because according to this thread it cant be possible what he's doing. He's also playing on CP campaign mind you.

Can we at least agree that claim being pushed by OP is completely bs?

The_Brosteen · November 2018

The biggest thing I see stam dk lacking is a supplemental heal over time. The only non dk skills I have on my bar are rally, carve, reverse slice and reverb. The potential is there, you can apply enough debuffs that you can be effective fighting a templar, its when you run into a good templar that issues pop up. But you could say that about almost any good player playing a given class.

As far as self heals for other classes go, nb has a cloak morph and/or siphoning, stamplar has ritual and/or repentance, stam sorc has crit surge and/or dark deal, warden has, well, a whole skill tree really, and stam dk has what? GDB and flame of oblivion (or whatever the morph is). Gbd can work but its not nearly as good as other classes self healing skills on a stam dd. Flames I havent really tried tbh but at face value it seems very underwhelming. Then theres the cinder storm or whatever. Not sure about that either. Perhaps thats where the answer lies but I kind of doubt it.

I think adding to a passive that heals for x% of poison damage done might be a neat way to fill the self healing void. Just a thought. I know alot of people dont think dks need more tankiness, this is just my opinion.

CaliMade · November 2018

montjie wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@montjie
I appreciate your post but I see that your main experience is non cp campaign. Even tho my non cp experience is limited ( since I almost played only cp campaigns) i agree with you that Stam dk is fine in that kind of environment. In nocp you rarely have a stalemate,thing that happen quite regularly on vivec. I used to run a tava,blood spawn and werewolf hide with asylum main bar (no damage sets at all) and still being capable of killing tanky opponents thanks to how nocp works. But in cp campaign is different. You need to invest in damage to be able to have a chance on killing those 29k health dudes,but with the amount of pressure 2 or 3 people can put on you’ll need a decent uptime on things like wings and major mending. Also generally on no cp whoever hits first has the upper hand for the whole fight so I see how a bow dk ganking build can work. But things are different in cp campaign.
You should really spend some time playing a cp campaign with your stamina dk and then use the same set on another stamina class,it will perform better

Lets not get lost here. This thread was created because supposedly Stamdks are useless because they cant use their class abilities because most are magicka based and therefor cant be sustained. Thats the subject of this thread and the only thing I have addressed and am addressing. Lets not dwindle on other matters because you guys keep changing the subject bit by bit to dk performances overall which this is NOT about so lets stay on subject please.

I have played in Vivec. On my stamdk, magdk, stamsorc and magplar. I never changed my builds and I found playing in Vivec to be MUCH more forgiving than on AS/SS. Its literally your character being on steroids which is why...again...I'm baffled the complaints about mag sustain are coming from the CP environment. It just doesnt add up

https://youtube.com/watch?v=q-kPPIMr-a8
He MUST be using cheat engine or something because according to this thread it cant be possible what he's doing. He's also playing on CP campaign mind you.

Can we at least agree that claim being pushed by OP is completely bs?

Pleas read my original post, your the only one who is missing the point. Nobody said Stam dks are useless. I stated that they are mediocre and not unique. Ive stated the same point in nearly all of my posts that you just absolutely refuse to read .

No one said dks are bad, you can definitely make them work BUT they are undeniably one of the weaker classes in the game. and its largley due to the fact that they cant make use of some very strong dk abilities like talons or dragons blood without taking serious hits to their overall efficiency.

You linking a Good players video is anecdotal evidence.

del9 · November 2018

StamDK has been buffed for several consecutive patches. It isn’t OP but can hold its own in multiple playstyles. Each class ultimate is very unique and viable in different situations. Minor brutality was buffed to 10%, Agility passive to 15%, and with evasion up and with DK passives medium armor feels like heavy. Then u can pop corrosive wirh all that WD and cut right thru anybody.

The buffed instant cast melee ability range is fully unique, and sounds like the result of a plan by ZoS. StamDK came out pretty good from the sweeping changes, and now that they’ve said they are slowing down on combat changes I wouldn’t hold my breath for a new “plan”.

Bow, S+B, DW, and 2H are all viable mainbar options for sDK. Hate to say but that one angry guy is right, most of your conplaints are rooted in L2P. Spend more time and enerfy on the class and you’ll see. It is in the best position it has been since they killed helping hands and battle roar.

Vanzen · November 2018

Dont know about open world but in BG Stam DK are unkilllable beasts that pack tons of damage ...

ochsinator · November 2018

Vanzen wrote: »

Dont know about open world but in BG Stam DK are unkilllable beasts that pack tons of damage ...

Give me some insight to these unkillable beast because I’ve been trying to make my stam dk an unkillable beast that packs a ton of damage for a while and it is hard deal a ton of damage I average low 300k damage per death match a good game I get into the mid 400k. Great game With a good team I’ll hit 500k maybe that’s with good support team.

I’ve tried spriggin and 7th with bloodspawn.

I’ve tried werewolf hide and ravaging with bloodspawn.

I’ve tried ravaging with 7th legion and bloodspawn.

So granted there might be a different build out there but I feel like with one of those combos if stam dks were “unkillable beast” mine would be at least kinda beastly.

I might need to hone my skills with my rotations better but I still feel stamina dks don’t have great damage in pvp.

Trancestor · November 2018

List of great skills that most good sDKs use and very effectively: Venomous Claw, Noxious Breath, Flames of Oblivion
Volotile Armor, Fragmented Shield, optional great skills: Wings and Fossilize.
StamDK is doing great and feels very unique imo.

montjie · November 2018

CaliMade wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@montjie
I appreciate your post but I see that your main experience is non cp campaign. Even tho my non cp experience is limited ( since I almost played only cp campaigns) i agree with you that Stam dk is fine in that kind of environment. In nocp you rarely have a stalemate,thing that happen quite regularly on vivec. I used to run a tava,blood spawn and werewolf hide with asylum main bar (no damage sets at all) and still being capable of killing tanky opponents thanks to how nocp works. But in cp campaign is different. You need to invest in damage to be able to have a chance on killing those 29k health dudes,but with the amount of pressure 2 or 3 people can put on you’ll need a decent uptime on things like wings and major mending. Also generally on no cp whoever hits first has the upper hand for the whole fight so I see how a bow dk ganking build can work. But things are different in cp campaign.
You should really spend some time playing a cp campaign with your stamina dk and then use the same set on another stamina class,it will perform better

Lets not get lost here. This thread was created because supposedly Stamdks are useless because they cant use their class abilities because most are magicka based and therefor cant be sustained. Thats the subject of this thread and the only thing I have addressed and am addressing. Lets not dwindle on other matters because you guys keep changing the subject bit by bit to dk performances overall which this is NOT about so lets stay on subject please.

I have played in Vivec. On my stamdk, magdk, stamsorc and magplar. I never changed my builds and I found playing in Vivec to be MUCH more forgiving than on AS/SS. Its literally your character being on steroids which is why...again...I'm baffled the complaints about mag sustain are coming from the CP environment. It just doesnt add up

https://youtube.com/watch?v=q-kPPIMr-a8
He MUST be using cheat engine or something because according to this thread it cant be possible what he's doing. He's also playing on CP campaign mind you.

Can we at least agree that claim being pushed by OP is completely bs?

Pleas read my original post, your the only one who is missing the point. Nobody said Stam dks are useless. I stated that they are mediocre and not unique. Ive stated the same point in nearly all of my posts that you just absolutely refuse to read .

No one said dks are bad, you can definitely make them work BUT they are undeniably one of the weaker classes in the game. and its largley due to the fact that they cant make use of some very strong dk abilities like talons or dragons blood without taking serious hits to their overall efficiency.

You linking a Good players video is anecdotal evidence.

You seem to have forgotten the things you said in your first post. No problem there bud. Lemme help you out.
Pay close attention to the bold parts.

CaliMade wrote: »

Ive been wanting to play my stam dk for a while now, but every time i touch it it’s all too apparent that stam dk is aggressively pigeonholed into a clunky, boring, and mediocre playstyle that is outdated and can’t really compete with any class. Its a noticeable decline in efficiency and class identity going from stam blade or stamplar onto stamdk.

I understand that if you slap on a bunch of weapon line abilities it makes them “work”, but at that point they aren’t really even a Dk. Most successful dks i see in pvp run no more than volatile armor, igneous and venomous claw. Alot of dks have even gone as far as to drop Take Flight for Dawnbreaker due to not having a strong enough class ability to pair with it. forcing them to play a DOT game that they loose to stamplars. The current, most effective, way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically. Can you really call your character a stamina dk when your bar reads off
“Ransack-Venimous Claw-Reverberating Bash-rearming trap-Resolving Vigor-Dawnbreaker?” there is literally one dk skill on your bar. Why is it that the most effective way to play this class is get rid of nearly everything that makes it unique in favor of generic “functional” abilities that are pretty much secondary options for every other class?

I can belt out solutions all i want in the class reps thread but it seems like those gain very little traction for stam dk too.

Is ZoS ok with stam dk having to depend on weapon and guild skill trees? If you do want stam Dk to make use of class abilities is there a possibility of giving stam dks better ways to sustain their magicka pool? Can we expect to see Stamina morphs?

I would greatly appreciate information from Zenimax on their plans for stam dk.

I also have a few well thought out changes if needed.

"The current, most effective, way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically."

Xvorg · November 2018

Paraphrasing John Milton in "The Devil's Advocate", the problem with sDK (and DK in general) is that ZoS give some skills, and then they put rules that contradicts those skills, such as:

Block, but if you block, you cannot regenerate stam/mag
Save your ulti for a kill, but also recover resources using that ulti
Here there are some DoTs, look, this one gives major fracture, though you will do it much better with a bleed.
You want mobility? Here it is, just for you... attached to a gap closer
Wanna get rid of snares? Ok, Wings can do that, but you won't have snare immunity
Look, 30% extra health recovery, if you slot only Draconic power skills
Minor brutality for everyone!!! In a line full of magicka based skills
Magma shield, such a great ability... costs 200 magicka, same as Barrier and without magicka/heal/ulti recovery

It's just like if uncle Sheo has designed the class

CaliMade · November 2018

montjie wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@montjie
I appreciate your post but I see that your main experience is non cp campaign. Even tho my non cp experience is limited ( since I almost played only cp campaigns) i agree with you that Stam dk is fine in that kind of environment. In nocp you rarely have a stalemate,thing that happen quite regularly on vivec. I used to run a tava,blood spawn and werewolf hide with asylum main bar (no damage sets at all) and still being capable of killing tanky opponents thanks to how nocp works. But in cp campaign is different. You need to invest in damage to be able to have a chance on killing those 29k health dudes,but with the amount of pressure 2 or 3 people can put on you’ll need a decent uptime on things like wings and major mending. Also generally on no cp whoever hits first has the upper hand for the whole fight so I see how a bow dk ganking build can work. But things are different in cp campaign.
You should really spend some time playing a cp campaign with your stamina dk and then use the same set on another stamina class,it will perform better

Lets not get lost here. This thread was created because supposedly Stamdks are useless because they cant use their class abilities because most are magicka based and therefor cant be sustained. Thats the subject of this thread and the only thing I have addressed and am addressing. Lets not dwindle on other matters because you guys keep changing the subject bit by bit to dk performances overall which this is NOT about so lets stay on subject please.

I have played in Vivec. On my stamdk, magdk, stamsorc and magplar. I never changed my builds and I found playing in Vivec to be MUCH more forgiving than on AS/SS. Its literally your character being on steroids which is why...again...I'm baffled the complaints about mag sustain are coming from the CP environment. It just doesnt add up

https://youtube.com/watch?v=q-kPPIMr-a8
He MUST be using cheat engine or something because according to this thread it cant be possible what he's doing. He's also playing on CP campaign mind you.

Can we at least agree that claim being pushed by OP is completely bs?

Pleas read my original post, your the only one who is missing the point. Nobody said Stam dks are useless. I stated that they are mediocre and not unique. Ive stated the same point in nearly all of my posts that you just absolutely refuse to read .

No one said dks are bad, you can definitely make them work BUT they are undeniably one of the weaker classes in the game. and its largley due to the fact that they cant make use of some very strong dk abilities like talons or dragons blood without taking serious hits to their overall efficiency.

You linking a Good players video is anecdotal evidence.

You seem to have forgotten the things you said in your first post. No problem there bud. Lemme help you out.
Pay close attention to the bold parts.

CaliMade wrote: »

Ive been wanting to play my stam dk for a while now, but every time i touch it it’s all too apparent that stam dk is aggressively pigeonholed into a clunky, boring, and mediocre playstyle that is outdated and can’t really compete with any class. Its a noticeable decline in efficiency and class identity going from stam blade or stamplar onto stamdk.

I understand that if you slap on a bunch of weapon line abilities it makes them “work”, but at that point they aren’t really even a Dk. Most successful dks i see in pvp run no more than volatile armor, igneous and venomous claw. Alot of dks have even gone as far as to drop Take Flight for Dawnbreaker due to not having a strong enough class ability to pair with it. forcing them to play a DOT game that they loose to stamplars. The current, most effective, way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically. Can you really call your character a stamina dk when your bar reads off
“Ransack-Venimous Claw-Reverberating Bash-rearming trap-Resolving Vigor-Dawnbreaker?” there is literally one dk skill on your bar. Why is it that the most effective way to play this class is get rid of nearly everything that makes it unique in favor of generic “functional” abilities that are pretty much secondary options for every other class?

I can belt out solutions all i want in the class reps thread but it seems like those gain very little traction for stam dk too.

Is ZoS ok with stam dk having to depend on weapon and guild skill trees? If you do want stam Dk to make use of class abilities is there a possibility of giving stam dks better ways to sustain their magicka pool? Can we expect to see Stamina morphs?

I would greatly appreciate information from Zenimax on their plans for stam dk.

I also have a few well thought out changes if needed.

"The current, most effective, way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically."

do you know what mediocre means?

“The best way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically”

AS IN your slotting so many weapon line abilities that you cant really call yourself a dk. How can i call myself a dk when i get better use of abilities outside of my own class.

Im done Responding to you and your lack of reading comprehension.

Stratforge · November 2018

KingLogix wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Theres 1 dk skill on your bar because you choose it to be so. Thats not the class fault. Its all on you and how you play. For one, that annoying defile spam ability isnt the only access to a reliable hardcc dk's have.

You compile bar setups nd then complain about said bar setups???

Hell...I even use Shifting Standard situationally on my SDK

stam dks generally run 10k-12k Mag(sureeee, some may have higher)
Majority of the magic pool is used to maintain igneous up keep for vigors, volitile armor, and heck even wings if thats your thing. If you want to perform at the class ceiling, you kind of have to run reverb for cc. Fossolize will hinder your over all performance as it will reduce igneous uptime significantly

thanks,
Day 1 stam dk

Just jumping in here to say Logix wouldn't know sh#t about performing at class ceiling. Boom roasted! (Mods relax its a joke)

On topic: Good points Cali. I think StamDKs can be really dangerous in Cyro but they could be a lot more fun to play with more stam morphs or other changes that allow the playstyle to be less shoehorned into weapon skills.

del9 · November 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Paraphrasing John Milton in "The Devil's Advocate", the problem with sDK (and DK in general) is that ZoS give some skills, and then they put rules that contradicts those skills, such as:

Block, but if you block, you cannot regenerate stam/mag
Save your ulti for a kill, but also recover resources using that ulti
Here there are some DoTs, look, this one gives major fracture, though you will do it much better with a bleed.
You want mobility? Here it is, just for you... attached to a gap closer
Wanna get rid of snares? Ok, Wings can do that, but you won't have snare immunity
Look, 30% extra health recovery, if you slot only Draconic power skills
Minor brutality for everyone!!! In a line full of magicka based skills
Magma shield, such a great ability... costs 200 magicka, same as Barrier and without magicka/heal/ulti recovery

It's just like if uncle Sheo has designed the class

Just clearing up some misinformation in this post for any newer players:

1. You do regen mag while blocking. Just not stam.
2. Wings DOES give snare immunity for 2s.
3. Magma Armor and its morphs cost 200 ultimate, not mag. More of a typo, but incoming damage is capped, unlike barrier, and Corrosive morph is really strong for stam.

montjie · November 2018

CaliMade wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

CaliMade wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@montjie
I appreciate your post but I see that your main experience is non cp campaign. Even tho my non cp experience is limited ( since I almost played only cp campaigns) i agree with you that Stam dk is fine in that kind of environment. In nocp you rarely have a stalemate,thing that happen quite regularly on vivec. I used to run a tava,blood spawn and werewolf hide with asylum main bar (no damage sets at all) and still being capable of killing tanky opponents thanks to how nocp works. But in cp campaign is different. You need to invest in damage to be able to have a chance on killing those 29k health dudes,but with the amount of pressure 2 or 3 people can put on you’ll need a decent uptime on things like wings and major mending. Also generally on no cp whoever hits first has the upper hand for the whole fight so I see how a bow dk ganking build can work. But things are different in cp campaign.
You should really spend some time playing a cp campaign with your stamina dk and then use the same set on another stamina class,it will perform better

Lets not get lost here. This thread was created because supposedly Stamdks are useless because they cant use their class abilities because most are magicka based and therefor cant be sustained. Thats the subject of this thread and the only thing I have addressed and am addressing. Lets not dwindle on other matters because you guys keep changing the subject bit by bit to dk performances overall which this is NOT about so lets stay on subject please.

I have played in Vivec. On my stamdk, magdk, stamsorc and magplar. I never changed my builds and I found playing in Vivec to be MUCH more forgiving than on AS/SS. Its literally your character being on steroids which is why...again...I'm baffled the complaints about mag sustain are coming from the CP environment. It just doesnt add up

https://youtube.com/watch?v=q-kPPIMr-a8
He MUST be using cheat engine or something because according to this thread it cant be possible what he's doing. He's also playing on CP campaign mind you.

Can we at least agree that claim being pushed by OP is completely bs?

Pleas read my original post, your the only one who is missing the point. Nobody said Stam dks are useless. I stated that they are mediocre and not unique. Ive stated the same point in nearly all of my posts that you just absolutely refuse to read .

No one said dks are bad, you can definitely make them work BUT they are undeniably one of the weaker classes in the game. and its largley due to the fact that they cant make use of some very strong dk abilities like talons or dragons blood without taking serious hits to their overall efficiency.

You linking a Good players video is anecdotal evidence.

You seem to have forgotten the things you said in your first post. No problem there bud. Lemme help you out.
Pay close attention to the bold parts.

CaliMade wrote: »

Ive been wanting to play my stam dk for a while now, but every time i touch it it’s all too apparent that stam dk is aggressively pigeonholed into a clunky, boring, and mediocre playstyle that is outdated and can’t really compete with any class. Its a noticeable decline in efficiency and class identity going from stam blade or stamplar onto stamdk.

I understand that if you slap on a bunch of weapon line abilities it makes them “work”, but at that point they aren’t really even a Dk. Most successful dks i see in pvp run no more than volatile armor, igneous and venomous claw. Alot of dks have even gone as far as to drop Take Flight for Dawnbreaker due to not having a strong enough class ability to pair with it. forcing them to play a DOT game that they loose to stamplars. The current, most effective, way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically. Can you really call your character a stamina dk when your bar reads off
“Ransack-Venimous Claw-Reverberating Bash-rearming trap-Resolving Vigor-Dawnbreaker?” there is literally one dk skill on your bar. Why is it that the most effective way to play this class is get rid of nearly everything that makes it unique in favor of generic “functional” abilities that are pretty much secondary options for every other class?

I can belt out solutions all i want in the class reps thread but it seems like those gain very little traction for stam dk too.

Is ZoS ok with stam dk having to depend on weapon and guild skill trees? If you do want stam Dk to make use of class abilities is there a possibility of giving stam dks better ways to sustain their magicka pool? Can we expect to see Stamina morphs?

I would greatly appreciate information from Zenimax on their plans for stam dk.

I also have a few well thought out changes if needed.

"The current, most effective, way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically."

do you know what mediocre means?

“The best way to play stamdk is to not play them at all basically”

AS IN your slotting so many weapon line abilities that you cant really call yourself a dk. How can i call myself a dk when i get better use of abilities outside of my own class.

Im done Responding to you and your lack of reading comprehension.

Well isnt that ironic

Angry dk noob: sDK are useless rant rant rant
*Angry dk noob gets debunked*
Angry dk noob: Nooo I said other classes are more effective than sDK blabla
*Angry dk noob gets told to stick to the topic he created*
Angry dk noob: sDK are useless rant rant rant

youre quite adorable

Adenoma · November 2018

I loved stamDK in the past, but it does have a harder time in this meta playing the traditional S&B life. I think the biggest thing I would swap this patch to play similar to previous is think a little off the wall - at least for CP pvp.

If I were back on stamDK over warden I would likely run 2x blood spawn, 5x fury, 5x naga shaman back bar 2h axe, maelstrom S&B front with tri food/gold stam food and then all weapon damage glyphs and warrior mundus. If you back bar fragmented shield and pop it with damage shaman you’ve all of a sudden got minor vitality along with major+ minor mending.

Maelstrom S&B lets you sustain magicka for wings and your other utility skills while slotting rally. All told, that gives you bonkers healing.

Xvorg · November 2018

del9 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Paraphrasing John Milton in "The Devil's Advocate", the problem with sDK (and DK in general) is that ZoS give some skills, and then they put rules that contradicts those skills, such as:

Block, but if you block, you cannot regenerate stam/mag
Save your ulti for a kill, but also recover resources using that ulti
Here there are some DoTs, look, this one gives major fracture, though you will do it much better with a bleed.
You want mobility? Here it is, just for you... attached to a gap closer
Wanna get rid of snares? Ok, Wings can do that, but you won't have snare immunity
Look, 30% extra health recovery, if you slot only Draconic power skills
Minor brutality for everyone!!! In a line full of magicka based skills
Magma shield, such a great ability... costs 200 magicka, same as Barrier and without magicka/heal/ulti recovery

It's just like if uncle Sheo has designed the class

Just clearing up some misinformation in this post for any newer players:

1. You do regen mag while blocking. Just not stam.
2. Wings DOES give snare immunity for 2s.
3. Magma Armor and its morphs cost 200 ultimate, not mag. More of a typo, but incoming damage is capped, unlike barrier, and Corrosive morph is really strong for stam.

1- You regen magicka when blocking with a frost staff? That's great news, because that's was I was meaning (there's a slash somewhere)
2- 2 secs snare inmunity on a skill... that's huge... but only in one of the morphs, right? (Considerig it is a class with a serious mobility problem that's more of a joke than a help)
3- Yup, a typo

But don't worry, there are some more inconsistencies:

- You can get 500 extra regen if the almighty random god favors you with poison (burning status)... but no, you won't have that regen if you are out of a fight, sorry. (NB laughs at you)
- You can get a 33% of your current health recoven when using this skill, it is HUGE (NB keeps on laughing at you)
- Look, here's some extra spell resistance... 3300 (Templar laughs at you, he just have 660 spell res less but a 6% extra and weapon dmg)
- Look, a 12% cost reduction in poison skills, that's great for you!!! (Templar laughs at you with his 4% cost reduction to all abilities, including ultis)

DK is a joke, sorry...

Aedaryl · November 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Paraphrasing John Milton in "The Devil's Advocate", the problem with sDK (and DK in general) is that ZoS give some skills, and then they put rules that contradicts those skills, such as:

Block, but if you block, you cannot regenerate stam/mag
Save your ulti for a kill, but also recover resources using that ulti
Here there are some DoTs, look, this one gives major fracture, though you will do it much better with a bleed.
You want mobility? Here it is, just for you... attached to a gap closer
Wanna get rid of snares? Ok, Wings can do that, but you won't have snare immunity
Look, 30% extra health recovery, if you slot only Draconic power skills
Minor brutality for everyone!!! In a line full of magicka based skills
Magma shield, such a great ability... costs 200 magicka, same as Barrier and without magicka/heal/ulti recovery

It's just like if uncle Sheo has designed the class

Just clearing up some misinformation in this post for any newer players:

1. You do regen mag while blocking. Just not stam.
2. Wings DOES give snare immunity for 2s.
3. Magma Armor and its morphs cost 200 ultimate, not mag. More of a typo, but incoming damage is capped, unlike barrier, and Corrosive morph is really strong for stam.

1- You regen magicka when blocking with a frost staff? That's great news, because that's was I was meaning (there's a slash somewhere)
2- 2 secs snare inmunity on a skill... that's huge... but only in one of the morphs, right? (Considerig it is a class with a serious mobility problem that's more of a joke than a help)
3- Yup, a typo

But don't worry, there are some more inconsistencies:

- You can get 500 extra regen if the almighty random god favors you with poison (burning status)... but no, you won't have that regen if you are out of a fight, sorry. (NB laughs at you)
- You can get a 33% of your current health recoven when using this skill, it is HUGE (NB keeps on laughing at you)
- Look, here's some extra spell resistance... 3300 (Templar laughs at you, he just have 660 spell res less but a 6% extra and weapon dmg)
- Look, a 12% cost reduction in poison skills, that's great for you!!! (Templar laughs at you with his 4% cost reduction to all abilities, including ultis)

DK is a joke, sorry...

You are, sorry.

Did you forgot 12% more healing from passive? Did you forgot Stamdk regen all ressource from battle roar? Did you forgot helping hands is a very strong sustain tool
? Did you forgot major mending?

Stam dk is strong and competitive, it's not because you can't make it work than that's true for everyone else.

BlackMadara · November 2018

Adenoma wrote: »

I loved stamDK in the past, but it does have a harder time in this meta playing the traditional S&B life. I think the biggest thing I would swap this patch to play similar to previous is think a little off the wall - at least for CP pvp.

If I were back on stamDK over warden I would likely run 2x blood spawn, 5x fury, 5x naga shaman back bar 2h axe, maelstrom S&B front with tri food/gold stam food and then all weapon damage glyphs and warrior mundus. If you back bar fragmented shield and pop it with damage shaman you’ve all of a sudden got minor vitality along with major+ minor mending.

Maelstrom S&B lets you sustain magicka for wings and your other utility skills while slotting rally. All told, that gives you bonkers healing.

See this. I love this. Something unique that a stam DK can pull off. I am currently running fury and inpreg but I might give this a try. Seems awesome, good on you sir.

Adenoma · November 2018

@BlackMadara , I like thinking n problem solving and stuff. Please PM me after you test and tell me what you think.

I bet with maelstrom S&B you can sustain trifood and that larger magicka pool will give you a bit more room for popping utility skills in succession. It’s more of a CP pvp build, but it sounds potent on paper.

DemonDruaga · November 2018

I'd like to have one inhale morph scaling with wpn dmg/ stam. That would be awesome

Xvorg · November 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Paraphrasing John Milton in "The Devil's Advocate", the problem with sDK (and DK in general) is that ZoS give some skills, and then they put rules that contradicts those skills, such as:

Block, but if you block, you cannot regenerate stam/mag
Save your ulti for a kill, but also recover resources using that ulti
Here there are some DoTs, look, this one gives major fracture, though you will do it much better with a bleed.
You want mobility? Here it is, just for you... attached to a gap closer
Wanna get rid of snares? Ok, Wings can do that, but you won't have snare immunity
Look, 30% extra health recovery, if you slot only Draconic power skills
Minor brutality for everyone!!! In a line full of magicka based skills
Magma shield, such a great ability... costs 200 magicka, same as Barrier and without magicka/heal/ulti recovery

It's just like if uncle Sheo has designed the class

Just clearing up some misinformation in this post for any newer players:

1. You do regen mag while blocking. Just not stam.
2. Wings DOES give snare immunity for 2s.
3. Magma Armor and its morphs cost 200 ultimate, not mag. More of a typo, but incoming damage is capped, unlike barrier, and Corrosive morph is really strong for stam.

1- You regen magicka when blocking with a frost staff? That's great news, because that's was I was meaning (there's a slash somewhere)
2- 2 secs snare inmunity on a skill... that's huge... but only in one of the morphs, right? (Considerig it is a class with a serious mobility problem that's more of a joke than a help)
3- Yup, a typo

But don't worry, there are some more inconsistencies:

- You can get 500 extra regen if the almighty random god favors you with poison (burning status)... but no, you won't have that regen if you are out of a fight, sorry. (NB laughs at you)
- You can get a 33% of your current health recoven when using this skill, it is HUGE (NB keeps on laughing at you)
- Look, here's some extra spell resistance... 3300 (Templar laughs at you, he just have 660 spell res less but a 6% extra and weapon dmg)
- Look, a 12% cost reduction in poison skills, that's great for you!!! (Templar laughs at you with his 4% cost reduction to all abilities, including ultis)

DK is a joke, sorry...

You are, sorry.

Did you forgot 12% more healing from passive? Did you forgot Stamdk regen all ressource from battle roar? Did you forgot helping hands is a very strong sustain tool
? Did you forgot major mending?

Stam dk is strong and competitive, it's not because you can't make it work than that's true for everyone else.

A 12% on a passive if a skill from certain tree is sloted, right? Because you must slot that skill. In fact to get the passive 100% of the time you must slot a passive of that tree in both bars.

Major mending attached to a shield that costs 4k magicka for a stam based char? You know how many times you can use that skill in a real fight? Consider that foss, wings and talons also cost magicka. So if you want to have that major mending you have to drop one or 2 of the other skills. And also consider that you had to slot an elder dragon to get 12% extra healing in both bars.

Let me start again: The class is designed with rules that oppose each other. You can get major mending, but you must build magicka to use it. You can use the extra healing passive but you must slot skills that cost magicka too (or a very unreliable ulti). You have no way, as a stamDK to recover magicka easily unless you put a flame glyph or a magicka recover glyph.

SDK is a joke, sorry. Yes, it seems it has really good tools IN THEORY, in practice most of them are unusable.

del9 · November 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Paraphrasing John Milton in "The Devil's Advocate", the problem with sDK (and DK in general) is that ZoS give some skills, and then they put rules that contradicts those skills, such as:

Block, but if you block, you cannot regenerate stam/mag
Save your ulti for a kill, but also recover resources using that ulti
Here there are some DoTs, look, this one gives major fracture, though you will do it much better with a bleed.
You want mobility? Here it is, just for you... attached to a gap closer
Wanna get rid of snares? Ok, Wings can do that, but you won't have snare immunity
Look, 30% extra health recovery, if you slot only Draconic power skills
Minor brutality for everyone!!! In a line full of magicka based skills
Magma shield, such a great ability... costs 200 magicka, same as Barrier and without magicka/heal/ulti recovery

It's just like if uncle Sheo has designed the class

Just clearing up some misinformation in this post for any newer players:

1. You do regen mag while blocking. Just not stam.
2. Wings DOES give snare immunity for 2s.
3. Magma Armor and its morphs cost 200 ultimate, not mag. More of a typo, but incoming damage is capped, unlike barrier, and Corrosive morph is really strong for stam.

1- You regen magicka when blocking with a frost staff? That's great news, because that's was I was meaning (there's a slash somewhere)
2- 2 secs snare inmunity on a skill... that's huge... but only in one of the morphs, right? (Considerig it is a class with a serious mobility problem that's more of a joke than a help)
3- Yup, a typo

But don't worry, there are some more inconsistencies:

- You can get 500 extra regen if the almighty random god favors you with poison (burning status)... but no, you won't have that regen if you are out of a fight, sorry. (NB laughs at you)
- You can get a 33% of your current health recoven when using this skill, it is HUGE (NB keeps on laughing at you)
- Look, here's some extra spell resistance... 3300 (Templar laughs at you, he just have 660 spell res less but a 6% extra and weapon dmg)
- Look, a 12% cost reduction in poison skills, that's great for you!!! (Templar laughs at you with his 4% cost reduction to all abilities, including ultis)

DK is a joke, sorry...

You are, sorry.

Did you forgot 12% more healing from passive? Did you forgot Stamdk regen all ressource from battle roar? Did you forgot helping hands is a very strong sustain tool
? Did you forgot major mending?

Stam dk is strong and competitive, it's not because you can't make it work than that's true for everyone else.

A 12% on a passive if a skill from certain tree is sloted, right? Because you must slot that skill. In fact to get the passive 100% of the time you must slot a passive of that tree in both bars.

Major mending attached to a shield that costs 4k magicka for a stam based char? You know how many times you can use that skill in a real fight? Consider that foss, wings and talons also cost magicka. So if you want to have that major mending you have to drop one or 2 of the other skills. And also consider that you had to slot an elder dragon to get 12% extra healing in both bars.

Let me start again: The class is designed with rules that oppose each other. You can get major mending, but you must build magicka to use it. You can use the extra healing passive but you must slot skills that cost magicka too (or a very unreliable ulti). You have no way, as a stamDK to recover magicka easily unless you put a flame glyph or a magicka recover glyph.

SDK is a joke, sorry. Yes, it seems it has really good tools IN THEORY, in practice most of them are unusable.

You just listed some of the strongest passives in the game and are trying to say sDK is a joke. Most of the passive buffs in classes require you to slot or use a skill.
Also FYI you can restore mag from utimate, and all decent DKs know this and build for it.

All of your ramblings scream L2P issue. Stop spamming this thread with false info and ignorance of the class’ strength.

Really curious what style you attempt to play DK? Sniper perhaps? Maybe you follow around groups and addon to fights against enemies who are already outnumbered? Just a thought, based on your name.

sDk is far from a joke. But your points are all laughable.

BlackMadara · November 2018

@Xvorg FYI burning heart is active for the duration of a draconic power skill, not on skill slotted. Volatile/hardened armor will keep the 12% healing received buff up.

Edit: dragon blood should keep it up for the duration of the health recovery as well.

KingLogix · November 2018

montjie wrote: »

KingLogix wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

Theres 1 dk skill on your bar because you choose it to be so. Thats not the class fault. Its all on you and how you play. For one, that annoying defile spam ability isnt the only access to a reliable hardcc dk's have.

You compile bar setups nd then complain about said bar setups???

Hell...I even use Shifting Standard situationally on my SDK

stam dks generally run 10k-12k Mag(sureeee, some may have higher)
Majority of the magic pool is used to maintain igneous up keep for vigors, volitile armor, and heck even wings if thats your thing. If you want to perform at the class ceiling, you kind of have to run reverb for cc. Fossolize will hinder your over all performance as it will reduce igneous uptime significantly

thanks,
Day 1 stam dk

You only need mending vigors when you drop below your personal oh sht threshold. So theres no need to try to keep a 100% mending uptime. You basically have volatile and minor brutality to use on cooldown and the rest of the mag to 'spam' on wings and/or fossilize.

So you say most dks run 10-12k mag. volatile is 2700 with a 20 sec cooldown, igneous is 4k with a 20 sec cooldown. So even if you pop both of them back to back in combat you still have 3-5k mag for a fossilize or wings.
You dont kind of HAVE to run reverb. You just have to learn to manage your mag better. Either by being very specific as to when you use your skills or by adjusting your build.
Here is where people who cant/wont do that start complaining about stuff not being viable despite the fact many others are doing exactly that what is claimed to be impossible.

Hell I was running little over 12k mag on my stamdk on noncp with volatile, igneous and fossilize. Only bumped the mag up to 15k because I added wings and made it my main snare removal so it was gonna be spammed alot.

People dont build to sustain and then complain about how they cant sustain. Really?

With the current state of pvp, you will drop to the "personal oh sht threshold" more often than imagined. I am not saying 100%, but i personally like to keep 50% uptime, as there is alot of unavoidable damage WHEN 1vxing. In MY opinion, igneous is the most important magica ability on my bar. I use it to create cushion(damage shield) from incaps and buff heals. If there is a chance for me to reallocate some magic used to a stamina based cc that gives major defile in return for more igneous up keep, than damn right I am going to run reverb. Again, we play 2 different play styles. You made if VERY clear that you zerg and use ash cloud at siege walls to help empower your zerg..

React · November 2018

SDK is probably the worst stam class right now, and I play them all (race changed my stamblade to mag recently though, because that class is brainless and boring).

Their stam sustain is pretty good, their mitigation is pretty good. However, they have poor mobility and they lack damage.They also don't have the mag sustain to use anything more than frag shield and volatile, without using additional mag recovery and thus losing out further on damage or sustain. This is unfortunate because they have such great options for potential mag utility skills (fossilize, wings, flames of oblivion, channeled acceleration).

Giving them some sort of additional mag recovery would help quite a bit, I think. It would allow additional utility skills to be used and indirectly might allow for a higher damage value to be achieved.

Alternatively, a small passive increase to physical damage could be the solution. A 2.5(rank1)/5%(rank2) increase would probably be enough of a bonus to skills like dizzying, executioner, heroic, ransack, take flight, dawnbreaker, etc to give the class comparable damage to other classes.

The access to major fracture does provide some extra damage, but noxious is such a clunky ability it almost isn't worth slotting. Reworking this skill to be slightly easier to land could be a solution ( I feel like this ability functions similar to how jabs did pre-murkmire - if so, changing it to cast in the direction of your reticle could solve the clunkiness)