(Spoilers) The revelation from an Ayleid Researcher concerning Argonians

ArchMikem · November 2018

I just finished the Murkmire story quest and that last bit was a doozy. I was actually caught off guard seeing the Ayleids again. But what struck with me was something the main Elf baddy's Researcher said while examining an Argonian body.

"This physiology...i don't know how its even Alive".

Consider me thoroughly intrigued. I want to know all the things now. Has my perspective of Argonians really been wrong this whole time and the entire Race are physical constructs of the Hist's magical intent?

RaddlemanNumber7 · November 2018

I was a bit startled by that too.

I'm still struggling to think through all these revelations. I've done the quests but have a lot of books yet to read, and a few more to find.

To me, it really is starting to look like the Argonians are the product of intelligent design on the part of the Hist. Their souls don't even seem to be the same as those of men and mer. Argonians are pretty different. The children of a lesser god.

Mostly, I'm loving it. But, there is the Stibbons quest...

I googled "cloaca". Not for the squeamish. Looks like I skipped reptilian biology at school, or maybe blanked the horror of it all from my memory. I'm glad ZOS keep the precise details of Argonian physiology a mystery. It casts a new light on those Argonian Maid books. Gross.

Can't wait to see what embarrassing secrets we learn about the other beast races. Next up, Khajiit

Eporem · November 2018

This one tells a secret

SantieClaws · November 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Can't wait to see what embarrassing secrets we learn about the other beast races. Next up, Khajiit

We don't tend to hide our secrets much traveller.

For example did you know why we favour lands of endless warm sands yes? Always a bathroom when you need one.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

prof-dracko · November 2018

I'd like to know if that Ayleid portal dimension has been mentioned in lore before. It looked pretty familiar to something from the popular Skyrim mod "Legacy of the Dragonborn", and it'd be weird if they'd created the concept first.

Claudman · November 2018

Yes, the Argonians were made by the Hist, but their body varies between tribes both externally and internally, though cosmologically it is always the same. Some Argonians may not have those weird cloaca and some may be more akin to avian or amphibians...Some may not even lay eggs.

We don't know why the Hist plays with biology and metaphysics like this. The Argonian alien biology sets them apart from any conventional race, since the Hist built them to adapt and cares little about mingling with the other races unless it benefits itself. Personally, the unknown yet almost selfish nature around the Hist makes them all the more scarier, especially when you sometimes can't even reason with it. (I.e. 3E-4E)

Books For Ya
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/annotated-anuad (See, the Elhnofey AND the Hist, implying they're completely separate entities from each other)
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/myths-and-legends-hist
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/eso-rp-interviews-phrastus-elinhir (Talks briefly on Argonian subtypes, not a book though)
(Can't find that Phrastus Elinhir interview which spoke about the other subtypes ffs)

Essentially, Argonians are so alien...When I'm talking about the other races and their Ehlnofey-driven roots, I always say, 'Except Argonians'.

Starlock · November 2018

Yes, I came across this too and it was quite interesting. On the whole, the exploration of Argonian culture in Murkmire is just fascinating and very well done. We all knew Argonians were weird, but dang.

There was another reference to the strangeness of Argonian physiology - a quest where you speak with an Argonian who had a sex change from female to male.

Ajaxandriel · November 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

"This physiology...i don't know how its even Alive".

Consider me thoroughly intrigued. I want to know all the things now. Has my perspective of Argonians really been wrong this whole time and the entire Race are physical constructs of the Hist's magical intent?

Couldn't it be a way to imply that their blood is cold, as reptiles merely? and that their organs are incomprehensible from a regular ("mammal") point of view?

Claudman · November 2018

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

"This physiology...i don't know how its even Alive".

Consider me thoroughly intrigued. I want to know all the things now. Has my perspective of Argonians really been wrong this whole time and the entire Race are physical constructs of the Hist's magical intent?

Couldn't it be a way to imply that their blood is cold, as reptiles merely? and that their organs are incomprehensible from a regular ("mammal") point of view?

I'm quite sure an Ayleid is well-acquainted with animals to know about cold-blood. I don't think it has to do with that, especially since some Argonians aren't cold-blooded. Argonians aren't just reptiles, remember? They're mammal-reptile-avian-amphibian-serpent-lizard-thing amalgams.

OtarTheMad · November 2018

It was really interesting quest, insightful as well. It got me more interested into the Argonian race. The other thing I wonder is... are they going to make this storyline somehow span 2-3 zones like the first DLC storyline?

Eporem · November 2018

A stable master speaks of its steeds:)

RaddlemanNumber7 · November 2018

Eporem wrote: »

A stable master speaks of its steeds:)

So, the Hist turns lizards into Argonians so that those Argonians can do useful things for the Hist. Anyone else think this sounds very much like the Argonians are created to be the slaves of the Hist?

Claudman · November 2018

@RaddlemanNumber7

It's more of a symbiotic relationship.
The Hist needs the Argonians and the Argonians need the Hist. Without Argonians, there will be nothing to help the Hist with 'maintenance' so to speak. Without the Hist, the Argonians simply would not be.
Slavery would be if the Argonians had nothing to gain from helping the Hist. They gain a lot from helping the Hist.

Think about animals who have symbiotic relationships. If Argonians were slaves to the Hist, wouldn't that make House Indoril of the Dunmer slaves to the Three?

Aliyavana · November 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Eporem wrote: »

A stable master speaks of its steeds:)

So, the Hist turns lizards into Argonians so that those Argonians can do useful things for the Hist. Anyone else think this sounds very much like the Argonians are created to be the slaves of the Hist?

They are slaves

Claudman · November 2018

@Aliyavana

Yes. In the end, they belong to House Dres, the Xit-Xaht, House Telvanni, the Veeskhleel and the Archein.

RaddlemanNumber7 · November 2018

Claudman wrote: »

@RaddlemanNumber7

It's more of a symbiotic relationship.
The Hist needs the Argonians and the Argonians need the Hist. Without Argonians, there will be nothing to help the Hist with 'maintenance' so to speak. Without the Hist, the Argonians simply would not be.
Slavery would be if the Argonians had nothing to gain from helping the Hist. They gain a lot from helping the Hist.

Think about animals who have symbiotic relationships. If Argonians were slaves to the Hist, wouldn't that make House Indoril of the Dunmer slaves to the Three?

Symbiotic relationships can be parasitic. Sounds just like a master-slave relationship.

ArchMikem · November 2018

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@RaddlemanNumber7

It's more of a symbiotic relationship.
The Hist needs the Argonians and the Argonians need the Hist. Without Argonians, there will be nothing to help the Hist with 'maintenance' so to speak. Without the Hist, the Argonians simply would not be.
Slavery would be if the Argonians had nothing to gain from helping the Hist. They gain a lot from helping the Hist.

Think about animals who have symbiotic relationships. If Argonians were slaves to the Hist, wouldn't that make House Indoril of the Dunmer slaves to the Three?

Symbiotic relationships can be parasitic. Sounds just like a master-slave relationship.

Symbiotic and Parasitic are mutually exclusive forms of relationships, its either one or the other, never both. A slave has nothing to gain from its master. Argonians gain much from the Hist. The Hist isn't a Master in any sense.

Claudman · November 2018

@RaddlemanNumber7

Jokes aside, it isn't a master-slave relationship. Argonians have freewill and can choose to abandon the Hist if they wanted to, the Hist can choose to abandon the Argonians if it wanted to as well...But, if either were to do such a thing, they would both face plenty of negatives. Also, the Hist is pretty selfless when it comes to the Argonians, it would sacrifice itself if it meant saving the tribe (citations for this are spoilers).

Eporem · November 2018

To me at the moment the Argonians seem like spirits given form by the Hist - perhaps to know itself or to know of its surroundings since the Hist is stationary - and perhaps the Whispering Root tribe were the first to be created - formed by what the Hist would have had access to in BlackMarsh -

Xarico · November 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Symbiotic and Parasitic are mutually exclusive forms of relationships, its either one or the other, never both. A slave has nothing to gain from its master. Argonians gain much from the Hist. The Hist isn't a Master in any sense.

You're thinking of mutualism. Symbiosis, as a term, encompasses all forms of codependent biological existence, including parasitism. And a slave may have something (or even much) to gain from its master, which, however, doesn't justify slavery in the slightest.

Haven't played Murkmire (yet?), but I'm very glad to hear that ZOS has decided to keep the Argonian lore alien and inspired.

Ertosi · November 2018

Starlock wrote: »

There was another reference to the strangeness of Argonian physiology - a quest where you speak with an Argonian who had a sex change from female to male.

I noticed that one also. Its interesting because it makes them like many real-life species of reptile (as well as some fish and amphibians) which are capable of changing their genders in response to various environmental pressures. Similarly, there was a lot of Argonian talk concerning the special attention that goes into caring for the eggs which helps determine their nature once born. Perhaps a reference to the many species of reptile which are able to determine the gender of their offspring by varying the temperature of each egg.