What do you think of Healer Progression in Game?

Tasear · November 2018

How do you decide you are getting better? How do you compare to other healers or other healer classes? What makes you a skilled healer? What do you think is important? Anything you wish you could change or add?

idk · November 2018

With the newer trials, post Craglorn, it is mostly high buff uptime and people getting enough resources. Since healing is pretty much AoE and decent groups are fairly disciplined, the healer challenge is more getting used to the mechanics so they are not getting in the way (and you are not dying).

Tasear · November 2018

idk wrote: »

With the newer trials, post Craglorn, it is mostly high buff uptime and people getting enough resources. Since healing is pretty much AoE and decent groups are fairly disciplined, the healer challenge is more getting used to the mechanics so they are not getting in the way (and you are not dying).

Are you happy with it? Do you need more buffs to engage with? Are buffs enough to bring healers to parties in dungeons and trials?

Kryser · November 2018

Getting the highest score on your templar & warden healers in vBRP & vDSA & being able to get your skins for all 4 man dungeons & getting flawless on both healers. Without using springs.

MokiDono · November 2018

Since all of the heals in this game are AOE or "smart" and you can't select individual targets from your OPS frame, there is no real healer role, more like support. It is far from the classic healer experience. Some people like it because of this and some people find it boring. Old-school healers probably agree that "smart heals" and spammable aoe heals are really dumbing the experience down, but they are a core part of the ESO mechanics, so you can't really adjust them in any meaningful way. Maximizing DPS, resource management and providing some extra mitigation is the main purpose of support in trials and dungeons. It is still an important role by all means and if you want to elevate the experience, you should think about buffs on these lines. Maybe add some set bonus variety as well.
Also, as long as self-sustain and healing\shielding is present... 3DD dungeon setups will be a thing, but again, you can't really nerf these, because of pvp. Proper support players still can manage keeping up buffs while providing enough DPS to justify 2 DD + Support DD setups.
Its complicated

Tasear · November 2018

MokiDono wrote: »

Since all of the heals in this game are AOE or "smart" and you can't select individual targets from your OPS frame, there is no real healer role, more like support. It is far from the classic healer experience. Some people like it because of this and some people find it boring. Old-school healers probably agree that "smart heals" and spammable aoe heals are really dumbing the experience down, but they are a core part of the ESO mechanics, so you can't really adjust them in any meaningful way. Maximizing DPS, resource management and providing some extra mitigation is the main purpose of support in trials and dungeons. It is still an important role by all means and if you want to elevate the experience, you should think about buffs on these lines. Maybe add some set bonus variety as well.
Also, as long as self-sustain and healing\shielding is present... 3DD dungeon setups will be a thing, but again, you can't really nerf these, because of pvp. Proper support players still can manage keeping up buffs while providing enough DPS to justify 2 DD + Support DD setups.
Its complicated

Of course but looking at this issue a different way. How do healers feel progression in game. That I believe is root of concern for healers. That along with more ambient damage.

RavenSworn · November 2018

Is there a healer progression? All you need is to slap a resto staff, get decent gear and you can heal trials.

idk · November 2018

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

With the newer trials, post Craglorn, it is mostly high buff uptime and people getting enough resources. Since healing is pretty much AoE and decent groups are fairly disciplined, the healer challenge is more getting used to the mechanics so they are not getting in the way (and you are not dying).

Are you happy with it? Do you need more buffs to engage with? Are buffs enough to bring healers to parties in dungeons and trials?

Am I happy with it. I have healed in MMOs for awhile and started out healed the vAA and vHRC when they were shiny new raids and healed them on a Sorc when Sorc could only heal with rStaff abilities and Barrier. Eventually I returned to Templar healing.

I have never liked that we did not have control of our heals and as I got others interested in healing I moved to DPS and tanking, though I still heal some. I have always been disappointed with choices Zos has made. Starting with Ritual, that it took them several year to realize an activated heal in a game like this is not very useful. Ending with Regen still not refreshing like a smart heal should.

What I have liked about healing is I could also do DPS. Back when we were v14 I healed vDSA regularly with just Repent and BoL. Did not slot an rStaff until last round as it was easier to heal with that while tanking adds which was the MO early on.

That I have enjoyed. But with the line of thinking that Zos has begun recently, trying to make them more relevant, I expect they will ruin that and create a divide between dps and healing. After all, that is the only way one can actually make healing relevant, which is the driving reason and original reason behind nerfing shields recentlyh.

Jaimeh · November 2018

I think it depends on the situation: if you are healing an inexperienced group in a difficult content, then just keeping them alive may feel like an accomplishment. With good groups, uptimes and providing adequate resources become more important. In time, I think the biggest indication of progression is having experience and practice with certain contents, knowing which skills/gear to use in which fights, and having little issues with your role in them (for eg. if you are kiting something, etc.) while helping your group to complete them.

FrancisCrawford · November 2018

I don't find that buffs such as Combat Prayer or Warhorn make much sense when PUG healing. Major Courage in dungeon PUGs is one set (SPC) plus one button twice ever 20 seconds (Mutagen); the progression of farming that set was fine.

Orbs unlocks a little late, which is a bit of a problem for non-Templar healers. Not a huge deal.

The fundamental problem with PUG healing is that the job is very unpredictable in nature. In a weak group you need to heal AND do a large fraction of the DPS. In a strong group you're basically being carried (but it's probably still not coordinated enough for your buffs to matter much). So progression is about DPS progression as much as anything else. So be it.

It's sad that most healing sets, monster or otherwise, are buggy or just badly designed.

Tasear · November 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't find that buffs such as Combat Prayer or Warhorn make much sense when PUG healing. Major Courage in dungeon PUGs is one set (SPC) plus one button twice ever 20 seconds (Mutagen); the progression of farming that set was fine.

Orbs unlocks a little late, which is a bit of a problem for non-Templar healers. Not a huge deal.

The fundamental problem with PUG healing is that the job is very unpredictable in nature. In a weak group you need to heal AND do a large fraction of the DPS. In a strong group you're basically being carried (but it's probably still not coordinated enough for your buffs to matter much). So progression is about DPS progression as much as anything else. So be it.

It's sad that most healing sets, monster or otherwise, are buggy or just badly designed.

How would you improve some healing sets if you could?

Aluneth · November 2018

I'm loving stamina healing on Warden.

Suddwrath · November 2018

Tasear wrote: »

How do you decide you are getting better?

As simple as this sounds, way back when I first made my healer I decided that I was getting better when I was keeping my group alive and staying alive myself. As I "progressed" with my healer and started getting the hang of it, I noticed that I was able to keep my group alive easier.

Tasear wrote: »

How do you compare to other healers or other healer classes?

I'm unsure if you're asking how I personally compare myself to others, or how I compare classes when deciding how to make my healer. When making a healer I look to see 1) How many unique class skills can be used for healing outside of the resto skill line, 2) The class' accessibility to major/minor mending through their passives, 3) How many synergies would they provide for the tank wearing Alkosh, and 4) What unique buff they could bring to the group.

Tasear wrote: »

What makes you a skilled healer?

Being able to do more than just spam heals. A skilled healer needs to be able to 1) Heal, 2) Provide resources to the group, 3) Provide additional DPS for the group, 4) Understand mechanics to the dungeon/trial they are in, 5) Have situational awareness so that they are aware of what the DPS and the tank are doing and what they will need.

Tasear wrote: »

What do you think is important?

I believe the two most important things for a healer are 1) Having the correct gear for the content, and 2) Having situational awareness. Champion points don't mean anything if a healer is not able to have an awareness of the fight and the positioning of all of the DPS and the tank(s). They need to be able to anticipate when damage is about to start coming so that they aren't spamming heals when nobody is taking damage. They need to be able to anticipate when DPS and tanks will need resources. They need to be able to understand the mechanics to keep themselves alive as well.

Tasear wrote: »

Anything you wish you could change or add?

Having more unique heals would be nice. There are enough HoTs and burst heals in the game. Rather than the Twilight Matriarch's heal being the "Breath of Life" for sorc healers, it would be nice if the heals behaved in significantly different ways so that they felt different instead of "Oh this is just the […] version of the […] heal for this class".

BejaProphet · November 2018

In 4 man content I believe healers should be built to do both heals and good dps. Healing a group isn’t that hard. Doing damage isn’t that hard. But the true art of a masterful healer is being able to moment by moment discern which your group needs you to be right then. Thus giving the most dps you can without letting the group die. This takes knowing when big damage is about to happen rather than just reacting to it.

That is an accomplished healer. In 4 man anyways.

Silver_Strider · November 2018

Tasear wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't find that buffs such as Combat Prayer or Warhorn make much sense when PUG healing. Major Courage in dungeon PUGs is one set (SPC) plus one button twice ever 20 seconds (Mutagen); the progression of farming that set was fine.

Orbs unlocks a little late, which is a bit of a problem for non-Templar healers. Not a huge deal.

The fundamental problem with PUG healing is that the job is very unpredictable in nature. In a weak group you need to heal AND do a large fraction of the DPS. In a strong group you're basically being carried (but it's probably still not coordinated enough for your buffs to matter much). So progression is about DPS progression as much as anything else. So be it.

It's sad that most healing sets, monster or otherwise, are buggy or just badly designed.

How would you improve some healing sets if you could?

Personally, I would adjust class skills so that each Healer had a proper niche before adjusting healer sets to be uniquely useful for a certain class's niche (would do this with Tanks as well) We have Templar Burst heals, NB HoT heals, Sorc pet heals, DK Shield Heals and Warden as a mix bag. So, with this in mind, I would adjust Combat Physician to work functionally better for a NB Healer (or Warden with an emphasis on HoTs).

(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) When you apply a heal over time ability to an ally, grant them Minor Piercing, increasing their Physical/Spell Penetration by 1500. Critically Healing an ally with a heal over time ability grants them a 9215 Damage Shield for 8 seconds. This effect has a cooldown of 6 seconds.

Sets like Worm Cult, IA and Mending can remain generic healer sets but with so many sets that just DoA, why not be more creative with them and make them somewhat more useful?

kojou · November 2018

When I heal it is mostly in PVP, because I never really got into PVE healing. I like the concept of a warrior healer that keeps the group alive and also can kill when needed.

My first thought related to PVE is that there used to be legitimate healing checks that aren't really relevant any more. For example the final boss in FG2 with her channel that would force everyone to stack in healing springs. With the new content it seems more like there are just mechanics with a lot of spike damage that you have to learn to avoid. Once you learn that then the healer is much less relevant and you take a 3rd DPS with some off heals so you can do the dungeon faster.

I suppose one way to make healers relevant is to make it so 2 DPS + Healer > 3 DPS. Which basically means the healer would need to provide 33% more DPS either through straight DPS and buffs or allowing the avoidance of mechanics through utility. For one example, make Purge work on more things in PVE. It always bothered me that you always have to test to see if Purge (or Cleansing Ritual) works on something. If healers could cleanse nasty effects more consistently (with a little situational awareness) and allow mechanic avoidance and greater DPS then you would definitely want a good one in your group. I think that would also add to the skill and progress factor.

I feel like the biggest problems would require making changes mechanics of fights to solve, and the developers would rather leave all that alone and just update player skill mechanics and effects which usually means nerfs like the one to Funnel Health and Refreshing Path.

Healing trials are another thing entirely and I don't have enough experience to give feedback.

My 2 cents anyway...

AcadianPaladin · November 2018

My healplar is what I call a 'pug healer'. She focuses on being able to quickly adjust to what a random pug needs. Fake tanks, low dps, 'race ahead squishies', no positional discipline etc.

Her skill selections reflect this by omitting Combat Prayer and slotting Sweeps for example. Her build leans heavily toward lots of spell power since it boosts both her damage and healing. When her pug is doing what they should, she can settle into a full heal/buff/debuff/support rotation that does an incidental 15k dps. Other times she may find herself nearly spamming Springs to keep folks alive or spamming Sweeps (under Channeled Focus) when a fake tank allows the boss to focus on her.

firedrgn · November 2018

MokiDono wrote: »

Since all of the heals in this game are AOE or "smart" and you can't select individual targets from your OPS frame, there is no real healer role, more like support. It is far from the classic healer experience. Some people like it because of this and some people find it boring. Old-school healers probably agree that "smart heals" and spammable aoe heals are really dumbing the experience down, but they are a core part of the ESO mechanics, so you can't really adjust them in any meaningful way. Maximizing DPS, resource management and providing some extra mitigation is the main purpose of support in trials and dungeons. It is still an important role by all means and if you want to elevate the experience, you should think about buffs on these lines. Maybe add some set bonus variety as well.
Also, as long as self-sustain and healing\shielding is present... 3DD dungeon setups will be a thing, but again, you can't really nerf these, because of pvp. Proper support players still can manage keeping up buffs while providing enough DPS to justify 2 DD + Support DD setups.
Its complicated

There are healer skills from sijic skil line that are not smart you must target for heals.

The toggle is clunky but the idea is kewl.

daveywavey · November 2018

With the way ESO (and MMOs in general) tend to end up steering towards MOAR DMG MOAR DMG MOAR DMG at the expense of everything else, I find that the Healer role ends up being an Alt role. It's purely there so that other people can play the game the way they want to. "I've spammed away all my resources for MOAR DMG, why haven't you given me more?" "I'm standing in a huge AoE so that I can do MOAR DMG, why haven't you healed me through it?" etc. So, I find that the 'Healer' role is more of a "Party's ***" role. Anything the other roles can't/won't do, it's expected that the Healer does it. As a Tank or DD, I've always tried to look after my own resources as I see that as part of the skill of the role, but the MOAR DMG brigade are usually the most vociferous and end up getting their own way.

In PvP, I find that Healers are effectively pointless. I play in Sotha Sil, so there are no CPs to be used, and the difference between the amount of damage a player can receive compared to the amount of healing is huge. If you have a player taking a lot of damage, then there's no way to outheal it. The more effective way to keep your party member alive is to kill those attacking them before your party member dies. Which essentially just becomes the MOAR DMG argument again. Which side can do MOAR DMG before the other one drops? Healing doesn't really come into it.

FrancisCrawford · November 2018

Tasear wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I don't find that buffs such as Combat Prayer or Warhorn make much sense when PUG healing. Major Courage in dungeon PUGs is one set (SPC) plus one button twice ever 20 seconds (Mutagen); the progression of farming that set was fine.

Orbs unlocks a little late, which is a bit of a problem for non-Templar healers. Not a huge deal.

The fundamental problem with PUG healing is that the job is very unpredictable in nature. In a weak group you need to heal AND do a large fraction of the DPS. In a strong group you're basically being carried (but it's probably still not coordinated enough for your buffs to matter much). So progression is about DPS progression as much as anything else. So be it.

It's sad that most healing sets, monster or otherwise, are buggy or just badly designed.

How would you improve some healing sets if you could?

Answering a slightly different question, problems include:

Single-target proc ones like Combat Physician, Prayer Shawl, Stendarr et al. are terrible because they're likely to "benefit" somebody that's at 100% health, and the numbers wouldn't be that great even if the procs went where they're needed.

Healer's Habit offers a buff that would be meh even if you couldn't get it from other sources.

Light Speaker has the same problem other single-weapon-kind sets do; the number assumes a large majority of what you do is with skills from that weapon line.

Sanctuary commits you to certain positioning. Use cases for it are so rare in dungeons I never bring it. (I imagine it's somewhat better in trials.)

Trinimac assumes teammates are even more tightly stacked.

What does Wisdom of Vanus provide that we don't also have without it?

Nobody is quite sure what Chokethorn or Nightflame do. The issue may be bugs, or obscure tooltips, or something, but in any case they're rarely used.

FrancisCrawford · November 2018

Answering the actual question:

I like the idea of "Emergency heal" proc sets like Earthgore or Troll King. Something more frequent than and therefore also weaker than Earthgore could be cool (I'm thinking of more Mutagen-like procs), in a five-piece or monster set as the case may be.
A BSW equivalent for heals could be cool, although I don't immediately see how to design it without making it strong for DDs as well.
Jorunn's is a great idea. But it needs a little more strength to make it more used, such as increasing the 40% number or making the set cover debuffs as well.
A straight sustain buff to healing could be cool. I imagine it would have to be based on actual heals rather than healing skills, since defining a "healing skill" in a game of hybrid skills could be hard. Just make it less finicky than the warden's Green Balance passives. Maybe a magicka return whenever you heal somebody (including yourself) who's under a certain health threshold. (But that magicka number would have to be big to make the whole thing worthwhile.)
It would be nice to be able to pass out Minor Protection like candy.

dovakiin5574 · November 2018

Im fairly Leeroy Jenkins when it comes to healing but... If i can sustain enough to spam heals and buffs and no one dies then I consider it a good day

Haquor · November 2018

Kryser wrote: »

Getting the highest score on your templar & warden healers in vBRP & vDSA & being able to get your skins for all 4 man dungeons & getting flawless on both healers. Without using springs.

Great.

usmcjdking · November 2018

I actually really enjoy the role of healer, it's by far the most dynamic role there is skill/playability wise and it's the only role that I think is relatively flushed out.

Sometimes when I pug I wear SPC/Inventor's Guard/EG and just DPS with a backbarred resto. If my team is amazing, I'll wear SPC/Shalks and pump Warhorns and Novas allowing for full davai. Sometimes I equip S&B/Destro and healtank.

The role has the most versatility IMO and I love it. I dislike Grand Healing though, not conceptually but it's implementation is a bit too simple for it's effectiveness.

Zardayne · December 2018

Speaking of Chokethorn, I really love the animations and it fits my druid theme perfectly. I just wish it's heal was "smart" and went to the lowest health member of my party.

FakeFox · December 2018

RavenSworn wrote: »

Is there a healer progression? All you need is to slap a resto staff, get decent gear and you can heal trials.

And people actually believing this is the reason why we have barely any good healers in this game.

Tasear · December 2018

Zardayne wrote: »

Speaking of Chokethorn, I really love the animations and it fits my druid theme perfectly. I just wish it's heal was "smart" and went to the lowest health member of my party.

I believe it does now.

robpr · December 2018

Only healer progression is ability to place Olorime ring it the place it's needed. Once you get the gear, even *** traits, you are good to go.

TheNightflame · December 2018

Thank you for bringing this up!!! It is a huge issue on console... as in it's nonexistent.............. console people NEED a way to quantify and show their skill in support roles (outside of achievements)

Zardayne · December 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Speaking of Chokethorn, I really love the animations and it fits my druid theme perfectly. I just wish it's heal was "smart" and went to the lowest health member of my party.

I believe it does now.

Oh that's excellent then. I haven't had much time to pay attention to it lately nor did I read anything about it. Thanks for the info

Tasear · December 2018

Zardayne wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Zardayne wrote: »

Speaking of Chokethorn, I really love the animations and it fits my druid theme perfectly. I just wish it's heal was "smart" and went to the lowest health member of my party.

I believe it does now.

Oh that's excellent then. I haven't had much time to pay attention to it lately nor did I read anything about it. Thanks for the info

I tried back in October on my Warden. I was very surprised because I had used set when it first came out. Now it will still randomly proc just it will also go to lowest health.

This set is really nice where tank might tank a lot of damage over time and not handle it well. At end of the day I think this set is undervalue in current state.