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Fix shields please....
Biro123
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Something really broken with their activation.
Yeah, I know when it gets laggy stuff doesn't fire - but shields seem so much worse for some reason.. Its as if their activation point is later in the animation cycle than other 'instant' abilities..
Just now I was surprised in combat - so hit shield with dodge-cancel... dodged, but no shield. Tried shield again.. no cast.. tried another - with dodge-cancel.. no shield - but dodged. Tried mashing shield for the next 2 seconds.. no shield, dead.
Why the hell does stam defence work, but mag defence not? Is the answer to give up on shields, stack stam recov and go a-dodging instead? It's another one of those less-tangible stam-benefits...
Zos, please fix this stuff..
Yeah, I know when it gets laggy stuff doesn't fire - but shields seem so much worse for some reason.. Its as if their activation point is later in the animation cycle than other 'instant' abilities..
Just now I was surprised in combat - so hit shield with dodge-cancel... dodged, but no shield. Tried shield again.. no cast.. tried another - with dodge-cancel.. no shield - but dodged. Tried mashing shield for the next 2 seconds.. no shield, dead.
Why the hell does stam defence work, but mag defence not? Is the answer to give up on shields, stack stam recov and go a-dodging instead? It's another one of those less-tangible stam-benefits...
Zos, please fix this stuff..
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
12
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PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭I often animation cancel one shield on both bars and I can confirm it does not work majority of the time this patch due to lag or whatever other reason.
Animation cancelling in general is weird this patch. The skills just don't come off. Happens a lot with boundless trash as well. The skill is not applied even though there is a sound cue.
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twofaced✭✭✭Could confirm everything works fine in instanced solo level. As for the laggy situation, I'd rather like to see ability to swap f***ing bars, firing skills is the least problem at this point.3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They definitely screwed up the cast time removal. I got a funny situation yesterday, where my char went through a door and got stuck in the cast time Hardened Ward animation. She just stood there taking a dump...
x'D3 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have the same problem. And it is not related to the animation canceling as I get it regardless of whether I try to cancel the shield animation. Oftentimes the shields will not activate for several seconds (between 3 and 7 seconds - potentially more but I did not live to see that) even when there is no lag. At the same time activating other abilities seems to work (better), b/c after unsuccessfully trying to use shields and having drained all my stamina I resort to throw some damage abilities or CC at the enemy, which more often than not works!
This delay seems to be related to being in combat / taking damage as I have not yet observed it outside of combat. And casting shields outside of combat gives you a pretty good idea how long the "regular" delay caused by lag is and it is nowhere near as long as the delay we get in combat.
The issue has definitely become worse with the Murk(s)mire update. Shields were always pretty crappy to use in laggy situations, but the "delay" nowadays is on a whole new level!
And while we are it.
ZOS, I know you favor stamina builds, but could you please start treating magicka and stamina defensive tools equally in terms of how they are treated and taken into account by the server and clients in the damage calculations! Dodge roll, Block, Sprint, Bash all work perfectly fine in laggy environments - hell, they even get improved as you can for example still press the dodge key after the animation has hit you and you still dodge the god damn attack. At the same time magicka defenses aka. Heals, Shields, Cloak, Streak/Shade suffer from serious delay and become completely unreliable to the point where magicka builds have to spam dodge, block, sprint and refrain from using their own defensive tools.
So you got 2 options:
1) make Dodge, Block, Sprint, Bash as unreliable as Heals, Shields, Cloak, Streak/Shade which I am sure everybody will be really happy about OR:
2) treat Heals, Shields, Cloak, Streak/Shade the same way Dodge, Block, Sprint, Bash are treated right now. This should be the preferred options as quite frankly nobody enjoys dying to lag / weird delays. It's fare less frustrating to not score a kill b/c of lag than dying despiting hammering that key for the defensive tool for several seconds without anything happening. And that fact that the stamina tools work fine in laggy environments demonstrate that it is possible for you to treat abilities in such a way.5 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I had the stuck-in-animation problem with Harness Magicka yesterday. No lag involved, I was in my house.
I casted Streak, Dark Conversion and a couple shields, and my char would raise her hand but never take it down. A shield did get activated, saw it on my HP bar. And it stopped after I blocked, I believe.
Still, it indicates traces of the cast time shields are still in the game. Not good.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭So you got 2 options:
1) make Dodge, Block, Sprint, Bash as unreliable as Heals, Shields, Cloak, Streak/Shade which I am sure everybody will be really happy about OR:
2) treat Heals, Shields, Cloak, Streak/Shade the same way Dodge, Block, Sprint, Bash are treated right now. This should be the preferred options as quite frankly nobody enjoys dying to lag / weird delays. It's fare less frustrating to not score a kill b/c of lag than dying despiting hammering that key for the defensive tool for several seconds without anything happening. And that fact that the stamina tools work fine in laggy environments demonstrate that it is possible for you to treat abilities in such a way.
Small problem there: Your so called magicka defenses are all skill based bound to the global cooldown (also you would have to include stuff in here like vigor and momentum), which get really messed up in lag. I myself already got the feeling, that GCD does not work in lag properly, so that it is longer and you can not cast stuff as frequently as before. But the your stamina defenses are not skill based and therefore not bound to the GCD. That is why you can activate them whenever you want, because even messy GCDs in lags do not affect them. So making magicka defenses reliable would mean fixing the lag overall, but making stamina defenses as unreliable as the magicka ones would mean to bind them to some sort of GCD system. which would probably mess with those even more, since they all function differently (you already can not dodgeroll all the time, meanwhile block is dependent on holding a mouse button, break free and bash are kind of similar to light attacks, etc).0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Checkmath of course this change would have to include stamina heals as well. I just did not want to make the post longer, especially since these heals are not as crucial to stamina builds as their equivalents are to magicka builds - i.e. they are neither the primary defense nor an "oh sh*t" button.
That being said, there is more to it than just the GCDs. Otherwise activating your shield/heal/etc while you are off GCD should be as effective as using dodge roll, but it is not. They are treated differently in the caluclation of damage taken / dealt. I don't recall the exact difference but somebody made a nice post about it on the forums not too long ago. And there was no reason why defensive skills as opposed to inherent defensive tools could not be treated the same.
Secondly, Dodge roll & Co. are essentially skills that you just don't have to skill into and that don't require a bar slot and are not affected by GCD. But at the fundamental level they are essentially the same. You could change the code and replace for example Breath of Life with Dodge roll in the system so that when you double tap (default settings) you heal yourself for X amount and it does not trigger a GCD.
Thirdly, having those stamina defnesive tools off-GCD is imbalanced in and of itself since it allows stamina builds to use 1 offensive ability and 1 defensive ability in 1 GCD while magicka builds can essentially only use either 1 offensive or 1 defensive ability in 1 GCD. The stamina favoritism in this game is so blatant that not even the most skill con-artist could sell it as being balanced!
Finally, don't kid yourself, the lag will never be fixed. If they were able to or wanted to fix it they would have done it by now. By now only those of the PvP population capable of suffering remain, and they will keep the lag just low enough so that they won't lose the suffering majority of this remainder as it still generates revenue. Or in other words, there is no reason to not continue to milk Cyrodii - there is very little cost associated with it. The original development cost have already been incurred years ago and there are literally no changes being made to Cyrodiil. Sure they added 3 villages and after 4 years added 3 additional outposts (all clones of already existing textures/models) and made the bridges and milegates destructible. But the cost associated with that next is to nothing compared to what it costs having to create new dungeons and zones for PvE. But that's a different subject.
Bottom line is:
There is no reason for this preferential treatment of stamina tools / abilities as it is inherently imbalanced.
They can treat magicka and stamina tools equally and f****** should. This is getting so old ...1 -
KundaliniHero✭✭✭@Checkmath of course this change would have to include stamina heals as well. I just did not want to make the post longer, especially since these heals are not as crucial to stamina builds as their equivalents are to magicka builds - i.e. they are neither the primary defense nor an "oh sh*t" button.
That being said, there is more to it than just the GCDs. Otherwise activating your shield/heal/etc while you are off GCD should be as effective as using dodge roll, but it is not. They are treated differently in the caluclation of damage taken / dealt. I don't recall the exact difference but somebody made a nice post about it on the forums not too long ago. And there was no reason why defensive skills as opposed to inherent defensive tools could not be treated the same.
Secondly, Dodge roll & Co. are essentially skills that you just don't have to skill into and that don't require a bar slot and are not affected by GCD. But at the fundamental level they are essentially the same. You could change the code and replace for example Breath of Life with Dodge roll in the system so that when you double tap (default settings) you heal yourself for X amount and it does not trigger a GCD.
Thirdly, having those stamina defnesive tools off-GCD is imbalanced in and of itself since it allows stamina builds to use 1 offensive ability and 1 defensive ability in 1 GCD while magicka builds can essentially only use either 1 offensive or 1 defensive ability in 1 GCD. The stamina favoritism in this game is so blatant that not even the most skill con-artist could sell it as being balanced!
Finally, don't kid yourself, the lag will never be fixed. If they were able to or wanted to fix it they would have done it by now. By now only those of the PvP population capable of suffering remain, and they will keep the lag just low enough so that they won't lose the suffering majority of this remainder as it still generates revenue. Or in other words, there is no reason to not continue to milk Cyrodii - there is very little cost associated with it. The original development cost have already been incurred years ago and there are literally no changes being made to Cyrodiil. Sure they added 3 villages and after 4 years added 3 additional outposts (all clones of already existing textures/models) and made the bridges and milegates destructible. But the cost associated with that next is to nothing compared to what it costs having to create new dungeons and zones for PvE. But that's a different subject.
Bottom line is:
There is no reason for this preferential treatment of stamina tools / abilities as it is inherently imbalanced.
They can treat magicka and stamina tools equally and f****** should. This is getting so old ...
ZOS: “So what you’re saying is, nerf Sorcs?”
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭russelmmendoza wrote: »I dont get it.
Those using magicka cant block or dodge roll?
If you read the original post, you'll notice that I dodged twice.
But since the shield changes and the need for impen over well-fitted, and the need for resists making it hard to stack stam, what magica builds can dodge more than twice in a row without leaving them unable to break-free?
I'll also put it another way.. what stamina builds run with over 17k magica, 1k mag recovery and mag cost reduction stacked?
Cus that's what mag builds ran last patch to utilise dodge.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭russelmmendoza wrote: »I dont get it.
Those using magicka cant block or dodge roll?
So why were you stamina builds complaining about shields? You could have used them as well. Healing Ward and Annulment are available to everybody. Sure you'd have to gimp your build, but hey, it seems you are totally fine with it - when others have to do it anyway.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can get stuck in the casttime animation - the bug has been sent to zos with video evidence by atleast 2 people i think?
The worst problem is that the ability won´t even fire after canceling the animation - you have to recast it.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭when animation canceling was discovered and complained about here on the forums (quite a few years ago), it took a while but eventually the subject came up in an open discussion on the "eso LIVE" program with the devs and Eric Wrobel, and they decided to allow this type of playstyle, but it was never intended.
you are asking for a fix on something that is technically an exploit.1 -
Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »when animation canceling was discovered and complained about here on the forums (quite a few years ago), it took a while but eventually the subject came up in an open discussion on the "eso LIVE" program with the devs and Eric Wrobel, and they decided to allow this type of playstyle, but it was never intended.
you are asking for a fix on something that is technically an exploit.
lol -_-Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »when animation canceling was discovered and complained about here on the forums (quite a few years ago), it took a while but eventually the subject came up in an open discussion on the "eso LIVE" program with the devs and Eric Wrobel, and they decided to allow this type of playstyle, but it was never intended.
you are asking for a fix on something that is technically an exploit.
lol -_-
although you laugh, i was not joking, my comment is based on honesty.
animation canceling and shield canceling and all types of actions like what is described here in this thread as i said was never intended.
people have been playing with this exploit for soo long now that some actually believe they are not doing anything wrong and even go as far as to claim it is "skill" when infact it is simply an exploit and cheat.
i will quote Eric Wrobel where in that interview on "eso LIVE" he said
"go ahead, do more damage"
but the fact remains that this type of playstyle "animation cancelling", "shield cast canceling" honestly was never intended.
they have even gone as far to help new comers to eso be able to join in on the fun with putting a note in the tutorial about attempting to use this animation cancelling as part of thier rotations and allows the spreading of this action but, again, in the end and facing reality, this is simply just an exploit.
is it cheating? some think it is and some do no think it is.
obviously the devs have allowed it, but, this thread is (like i said earlier)
"asking for a fix on something that is technically an exploit."0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can get stuck in the casttime animation - the bug has been sent to zos with video evidence by atleast 2 people i think?
The worst problem is that the ability won´t even fire after canceling the animation - you have to recast it.
But that is only half of the problem. The inherent imbalanced cause by the different treatment of stamina and magicka tools or rather of innate defensive tools and actual defensive skills is the other.
In many fights with my magicka classes I dodge more than I use my shields / heals b/c they just don't work. And that is a f***ing disgrace.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »you are asking for a fix on something that is technically an exploit.
Crazy, I know. Coz who would want exploits to be fixed.
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Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Up until last night I had heard others complaining of this, but I had not experienced it myself. But then last night during the final boss of vFL I tried activating my shield and it simply would not work. My other skills worked fine, I was not lagging, I had 60%+ magicka, but it still didn't work. So I began spamming my shield and it still wouldn't even activate. After at least 5-6 seconds it finally activated. So now I see what other people have been talking about regarding shields randomly just not working.0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i think part of this is similar to an addon i had in morrowind.
as part of an addon i had, there was a guy leaning up against a building that bothered me. he kept getting in the way when i tried to enter the door.
finally, out of anger, i went into the addon and tried deleting that guy, it worked for a few days but then it glitched out, and that guy came back but he was Directly infront of the door!
i should never have altered it.
here this thread sounds like is something similar, the shields were altered to have a 1 second delay on PTS, and later were reverted to no longer do that.
and now we see strange results with shields that seem altered and no longer working as they did previously, just like what happened to me with that addon i mentioned.0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »when animation canceling was discovered and complained about here on the forums (quite a few years ago), it took a while but eventually the subject came up in an open discussion on the "eso LIVE" program with the devs and Eric Wrobel, and they decided to allow this type of playstyle, but it was never intended.
you are asking for a fix on something that is technically an exploit.
Let's say it's as much as an exploit as cloak is.0 -
Sygil05✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »I often animation cancel one shield on both bars and I can confirm it does not work majority of the time this patch due to lag or whatever other reason.
Animation cancelling in general is weird this patch. The skills just don't come off. Happens a lot with boundless trash as well. The skill is not applied even though there is a sound cue.
Have you verified that Boundless' effects aren't actually applied? I've had this happen to me several times in Cyrodiil, and just assumed the game was just not displaying the visual component to having the ability applied. 100% of the time that this happens to me, I'm in combat (actually fighting), so don't really have the opportunity to open up my menu to see if my resists have gone up.0 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭russelmmendoza wrote: »I dont get it.
Those using magicka cant block or dodge roll?
Are you kidding?
Block costs STAMINA
Dodge costs STAMINA
Tell me which one of those costs MAGICKA?0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I feel like sorc is particularly vulnerable to lag. Shields are an active defense and missing even one at a bad moment can mean death. Meanwhile, their offense takes 4/5 perfectly timed skills to give any kind of meaningful burst. Miss one, and your burst hits like tissue paper.
Compare that to my stam warden where I can mash 2 offensive skills and roll dodge, and kill anything regardless of my FPS.2 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »I often animation cancel one shield on both bars and I can confirm it does not work majority of the time this patch due to lag or whatever other reason.
Animation cancelling in general is weird this patch. The skills just don't come off. Happens a lot with boundless trash as well. The skill is not applied even though there is a sound cue.
Have you verified that Boundless' effects aren't actually applied? I've had this happen to me several times in Cyrodiil, and just assumed the game was just not displaying the visual component to having the ability applied. 100% of the time that this happens to me, I'm in combat (actually fighting), so don't really have the opportunity to open up my menu to see if my resists have gone up.
Unfortunately it does not apply.0 -
Kova✭✭✭✭✭I have video evidence. No lag, no network issues. Just a fun duel between me and a friend (who gets a little overzealous in the video when we're interrupted)This is how shields work:
https://youtu.be/OqFkuOHPBes
Notice how the animation is finished and the shield is activated but damage is still applied directly to my health. Why? Because shields have ALWAYS had a 1 second cast time.
Ask any experienced player and they'll confirm this happens all the time and has a high tendency to cause a case of the deadsie wedsies.EP Sorc: Aydinn
AD Stamplar: Verdant`Knight
DC Stamblade: Apple`Punch
EP Stam Sorc: Kós
AD DragonKnight: Transmigrant
EP NIghtblade: Aydinn3 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have video evidence. No lag, no network issues. Just a fun duel between me and a friend (who gets a little overzealous in the video when we're interrupted)This is how shields work:https://youtu.be/OqFkuOHPBes
Notice how the animation is finished and the shield is activated but damage is still applied directly to my health. Why? Because shields have ALWAYS had a 1 second cast time.
Ask any experienced player and they'll confirm this happens all the time and has a high tendency to cause a case of the deadsie wedsies.
I have noticed that on so many occasions. That's another reason why I want magicka and stamina or rather innate and skill-based defenses to be treated equally by the game. It's completely imbalanced that stamina builds can use a offensive and a defensive ability in the same global cooldown, while magicka builds have to choose between either one. At the same time these innate stamina defensive tools get some sort of priority treatment in the damage calculation and work perfectly fine in lag. In fact, in laggy situations you can successfully dodge or block an attack even after the it hit you - who needs Miat's in a world like that?
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visionality✭✭✭✭✭Can confirm the shield-cast-bug. Shields in general are clunkier in casting and activation than all other skills, but ever since Murkmire, the chance to successfully activate a shield is 1:1-1:3 in Cyrodiil (outside, it works ok). This is NOT based on lag though, because all other skills work perfectly fine at the same time.
There is a way to force-cast shields: cast and instablock to animation-cancel. This will put shield-cast-chances up to 80-90% independently of lag. Funny fact: the higher the lag, the lower the chance that you actually block when doing the block - but the shield will activate anyways, just without the animation-cancel.
Probably caused by some very weird programming.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Something really broken with their activation.
Yeah, I know when it gets laggy stuff doesn't fire - but shields seem so much worse for some reason.. Its as if their activation point is later in the animation cycle than other 'instant' abilities..
Just now I was surprised in combat - so hit shield with dodge-cancel... dodged, but no shield. Tried shield again.. no cast.. tried another - with dodge-cancel.. no shield - but dodged. Tried mashing shield for the next 2 seconds.. no shield, dead.
Why the hell does stam defence work, but mag defence not? Is the answer to give up on shields, stack stam recov and go a-dodging instead? It's another one of those less-tangible stam-benefits...
Zos, please fix this stuff..
I'm surprised that this post was only made on the 10th. This problem been around and bad for a while...but like many other bugs, definitely got worse in Murkmire.
If you think its bad 1v1, don't get attacked by a zerg. 99.9999% of the time you will be better rolling because shields literally don't activate (or most mag healing skills either). I honestly am starting to wonder if its on purpose to stop lag
What I do: roll twice, pray for resto ult or use mutagen (only reliable burst heal under lag and other buggy conditions besides healing from sets). I literally have to carry hp/tripots and use no potions during fight, so I can keep rolling. Sometimes I even move my stam to 25K-29K on a MAG build to enable reliable rolling. The other option is to precast/preheal during the entire battle, but why do I have to accurately predict the entire battle when stam players don't?
Either way, I feel bad for anyone in light armor this patch. I know its torture for me...0
