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The problem with champion points

JinMori
JinMori
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What is the problem with the cp system? This is a question i asked myself while levelling up psjiic, and i think i came to a good conclusion, keep in mind that this is my opinion.

One of the big problem with the cp system is that because of the sheer amount of power it gives, much of the old content is now pretty much irrelevant, you can do more damage, you have better defenses and sustain, personally i really like progressions systems after you've hit the level cap, like the artifact weapon in legion, i personally loved that, so, what is the problem with this system?

Many say, that cp is the problem in of itself, because it gives so much power, to balance this, they have to nerf, take away something from the classes, which of course is not good, but i do not agree, i do agree that this is a problem, but i do not agree that cp is necessarily the problem.

When this system was made, zos knew that sooner or later it would cause these kinds of problems, to not think that it would would be naive at best, cp has already got a pretty massive nerf.

When this system was out, you would gain more and more stats the more point you put into the system, up to about 50% more base stats, that 50 % has been reduced to a flat 20 % at cp 300, considering that many run around with about 43 to 50 k mag for magicka builds and about 38k for stamina, it doesn't take much explanation why this is a pretty giant nerf for the system, so what is the problem? The problem is that zos made a system without really committing to it, this is the problem, in other words, the problem is laziness, they still seemingly refuse to make a new harder mode for pve, one that is balanced around this massive increment in power, you could call it something like legendary mode, and still refuse to balance pvp and pve separately, zos says that they wanna have a "feel" for a class that stays the same in pvp and pve, and that might hold some truth, but you don't fool anyone, the real, the first problem is that this would cost money to make, probably more than what you are willing to spend, because you would rather have those resources into making new useless cosmetic items, or new content, without realizing that this is also just as important as dishing out new content, if not more, but hey, if you put out a dlc, you can be sure that at least some people will buy it, but if you re balance the game, you can;t be sure just how much you will gain from it, but know this, sooner or later when a new, much better game comes out, don't be surprised if many leave eso, for a game where the devs actually commint to the systems they create.

In essence, progression systems are good, in my opinion of course, but when you launch said system, you should also fully commit to it.

Link for said 50 % stat increase, although it's actually closer to 60

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153189/1-6-difference-0-900-3600-champion-points

I'll add another point, to clarify 1 thing.

There are 3 possibilities on why the devs don't do this.

1: devs are lazy.
2: devs are not lazy but higher up won't let them change these things, because they would rather have them spending development time on crown store items, and content.
3: both are true.
  • SirAndy
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    How many more threads with the exact same topic are you going to post?
    confused24.gif
  • Taleof2Cities
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    Calling the devs lazy always leads me to ignore the rest of a post.
  • CyberSkooma
    CyberSkooma
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    Text walls.... ugh
    I play this game a little bit I guess
  • idk
    idk
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    Besides the clearly false statement, the assumption seems pretty incorrect.

    First, the false statement. It is clear Zos did not think or have concerns the CP system would cause problems. If they did they would have not released it with the ability to gain and utilize all 3600 points. They even thought the average player would be at 3600 CP in less than 2 years. They stated as much. Granted, I am a firm believer the ESO is poorly managed.

    Second, the assumption. CP has been nerfed since it's release with the most notable nerf being when Morrowind was released. We probably have not even gotten to the point where the benefit from CP has reached pre Morrowind bonus.

    When this topic is discussed we tend to overlook how Zos has buffed us otherwise. New sets that become BiS is one aspect. While it was later nerfed, adding concussion/off-balance via shock increased our DPS and even with it being nerfed it is still an overall increase in DPS since before the change. That is just two examples.

    Heck, even after that heavy handed CP nerf Zos gave with Morrowind we still managed to increase our dps iirc.

    So CP is not the issue that needs to be discussed, but Zos' overall poor management of this game and the lack of a vision even though they like to use that word from time to time.
  • Cillion3117
    Cillion3117
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    So many words...
  • karekiz
    karekiz
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    Nerf Stat balance = RAGE WHY ONLY NERF
    Nerf a skill = RAGE WHY ONLY NERF
    Nerf a class = RAGE WHY ONLY NERF

    Nerf CP thus nerfing every single Skill, class, and stats?

    Round of applause.

    Logic? None of it.
    Edited by karekiz on November 12, 2018 5:03AM
  • JinMori
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    Calling the devs lazy always leads me to ignore the rest of a post.

    The argument is immediately invalid because i said something you don't like.

    This is basically what it boils down to.

    Look, the facts speak clearly, and it's one of the 3 options, but if you have something to add, be my guest.
    Edited by JinMori on November 12, 2018 12:33PM
  • JinMori
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    idk wrote: »
    Besides the clearly false statement, the assumption seems pretty incorrect.

    First, the false statement. It is clear Zos did not think or have concerns the CP system would cause problems. If they did they would have not released it with the ability to gain and utilize all 3600 points. They even thought the average player would be at 3600 CP in less than 2 years. They stated as much. Granted, I am a firm believer the ESO is poorly managed.

    Second, the assumption. CP has been nerfed since it's release with the most notable nerf being when Morrowind was released. We probably have not even gotten to the point where the benefit from CP has reached pre Morrowind bonus.

    When this topic is discussed we tend to overlook how Zos has buffed us otherwise. New sets that become BiS is one aspect. While it was later nerfed, adding concussion/off-balance via shock increased our DPS and even with it being nerfed it is still an overall increase in DPS since before the change. That is just two examples.

    Heck, even after that heavy handed CP nerf Zos gave with Morrowind we still managed to increase our dps iirc.

    So CP is not the issue that needs to be discussed, but Zos' overall poor management of this game and the lack of a vision even though they like to use that word from time to time.

    The last statement you made is pretty much what iv'e said but in different words, if you break my argument down, you would see why that's the case, in this post i focused on cp, but you could make a similar argument for other things that zos poorly manages.

    In my argument i said, that the problem is not necessarily cp, sure cp, brings these problems because of the added power to players, but that's not the problem, the problem is that they failed to increase the difficulty of content, for example, by adding a new harder mode to the game, this could be considered bad management.

    The assumption i made was only 1 example on how cp has already been nerfed, but i do not agree on the statement that cp received the biggest nerf during morrowind, sure, if we only consider sustain, than you're 100 % correct, but morrowind was also the time where they introduced a lot of good passives in the blue and red portion.

    With the third point, i don't think you read my post fully, i didn't really discuss dps, nerfs and buffs, my post was much more focused on zos poor handling and poor commitment to the systems they've made.

    Edited by JinMori on November 12, 2018 12:58PM
  • frostz417
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    Translation: “I don’t want to grind cp like literally everyone else did”
    The cp system is made for the long run. Don’t expect to suddenly be Max cp in a day. It’s calling working for it.
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    frostz417 wrote: »
    Translation: “I don’t want to grind cp like literally everyone else did”
    The cp system is made for the long run. Don’t expect to suddenly be Max cp in a day. It’s calling working for it.

    Wha? That's not at all what was being discussed.

    I even said that i actually like progressions systems when they are managed correctly, so you are just plain wrong, the cp grind is honestly not so bad anyway.
    Edited by JinMori on November 12, 2018 1:01PM
  • Merlin13KAGL
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    Legendary mode cost 6000g. 3000g to spec out of CP, 3000g to spec back when you're done.

    DLC-selling-OP-sets are a bigger problem than CP will ever be and Overland has always been a joke. Take off Siroria, Relequen's, Strategist, etc. and try again.

    I'm still trying out the point of your thread.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • JinMori
    JinMori
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    Legendary mode cost 6000g. 3000g to spec out of CP, 3000g to spec back when you're done.

    DLC-selling-OP-sets are a bigger problem than CP will ever be and Overland has always been a joke. Take off Siroria, Relequen's, Strategist, etc. and try again.

    I'm still trying out the point of your thread.

    That wasn't really the point of the argument.
    Edited by JinMori on November 12, 2018 3:13PM
  • zaria
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    JinMori wrote: »
    Legendary mode cost 6000g. 3000g to spec out of CP, 3000g to spec back when you're done.

    DLC-selling-OP-sets are a bigger problem than CP will ever be and Overland has always been a joke. Take off Siroria, Relequen's, Strategist, etc. and try again.

    I'm still trying out the point of your thread.

    That wasn't really the point of the argument.
    No it was was it will be an 60% stats from 600 to 3600, an 60% and this was before the Morrowind nerf.
    Son an 50% increase in 23 years, using cp 810 as base.
    Yes at this point you will put point into very marginal stuff like heavy armor on magic users for the one piece and so on.
    You fill up the most useful points first.

    CP buff get weaker and weaker for each update, I agree that better gear and most of all better players are the main change.
    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • JinMori
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    zaria wrote: »
    JinMori wrote: »
    Legendary mode cost 6000g. 3000g to spec out of CP, 3000g to spec back when you're done.

    DLC-selling-OP-sets are a bigger problem than CP will ever be and Overland has always been a joke. Take off Siroria, Relequen's, Strategist, etc. and try again.

    I'm still trying out the point of your thread.

    That wasn't really the point of the argument.
    No it was was it will be an 60% stats from 600 to 3600, an 60% and this was before the Morrowind nerf.
    Son an 50% increase in 23 years, using cp 810 as base.
    Yes at this point you will put point into very marginal stuff like heavy armor on magic users for the one piece and so on.
    You fill up the most useful points first.

    CP buff get weaker and weaker for each update, I agree that better gear and most of all better players are the main change.

    Still wasn't the main point although i did say that in this aspect cp was nerfed.

    Cp 3600 gave 60 % more stats compared to cp 0.

    This was nerfed probably because of "power creep", but the main point was not this.
    Edited by JinMori on November 12, 2018 6:04PM
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