dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Aeladiir wrote: »

Nightblade players are degenerates. Using invisibility (again: invisibility, not utilizing lack of vision) in order to gain an advantage over your opponent is a display of cowardice and beta status. Utilizing invisibility in any PVP game is a display of low skill, self-humiliation, non-existant honour, and low morals.

SO, You think us people whom use stealth are cowards and immoral low lifes?
well, we here at the US Millitary thinks differently!
Stealth - Army, Navy, Military, Air Force, Marines, Coast ...
using prevailing weather – the tactical use of weather as a force multiplier has influenced many important battles throughout history, such as the Battle of Waterloo.[2]
Fire attacks – reconnaissance by fire is used by apprehensive soldiers when they suspect the enemy is nearby.
Force concentration – the practice of concentrating a military force against a portion of an enemy force.[3]
Night combat – combat that takes place at night. It often requires more preparation than combat during daylight and can provide significant tactical advantages and disadvantages to both the attacker and defender.[4]
Reconnaissance – a mission to obtain information by visual observation or other detection methods, about the activities and resources of the enemy or potential enemy, or about the meteorologic, hydrographic, or geographic characteristics of a particular area.[5]
Smoke screening - the practice of creating clouds of smoke positioned to provide concealment, allowing military forces to advance or retreat across open terrain without coming under direct fire from the enemy

Individual movement techniques
Fire and movement (also known as leapfrogging) – working in 'fire teams', one team attempts to suppress the enemy while the other moves either toward the enemy or to a more favourable position.
Basic drill – a standard drill that all individual soldiers are supposed to perform if they come under fire.
Contact drill
Immediate ambush drill
Counter ambush drill
Hull-down (in armored warfare)
Shoot-and-scoot
Infiltration tactics
Marching fire
Four Fs: find, fix, flank, finish
Overwatch
Bounding overwatch
Center peel
Patrolling
Reconnaissance patrol
Fighting patrol
Standing patrol (OP/LP)
Ambush
Linear ambush
L ambush
Area ambush
Guerrilla

Penetration of the center: This involves the creation of a gap in the enemy line and its exploitation. Two ways of accomplishing this are separating enemy forces and using a reserve to exploit the gap that forms between them (e.g. Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC), the first recorded use of the penetration of the center) or having fast, elite forces smash at a specific point in the enemy line (an enemy weak spot or an area where your elites are at their best in striking power) and, while reserves and holding forces hold your opponent, drive quickly and immediately for the enemy's command or base (i.e., blitzkrieg).

Battle of Issus, a classic example of the single envelopment
Attack from a defensive position: Establishing a strong defensive position from which to defend and attack your opponent. However, the defensive can become too passive and result in ultimate defeat (e.g., Siege of Alesia and the Battle of the Granicus).

Battle of Maling, the earliest known use of the feigned retreat
Single envelopment: A strong flank beating its opponent opposite and, with the aid of holding attacks, attack an opponent in the rear. Sometimes, the establishment of a strong, hidden force behind a weak flank will prevent your opponent from carrying out their own single envelopment (e.g., Battle of Rocroi).
Double envelopment: Both flanks defeat their opponent opposite and launch a rear attack on the enemy center. Its most famous use was Hannibal's tactical masterpiece, the Battle of Cannae and was frequently used by the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front of World War II.
Attack in oblique order: This involves placing your flanks in a slanted fashion (refusing one's flank) or giving a vast part of your force to a single flank (e.g., Battle of Leuthen). The latter can be disastrous, however, due to the imbalance of force.
Feigned retreat: Having a frontal force fake a retreat, drawing the opponent in pursuit and then launching an assault with strong force held in reserve (such as the Battle of Maling and the Battle of Hastings). However, a feigned retreat may devolve into a real one, such as in the Battle of Grunwald.
Indirect approach: Having a minority of your force demonstrate in front of your opponent while the majority of your force advance from a hidden area and attack the enemy in the rear or flank (e.g., Battle of Chancellorsville).
Crossing the "T": a classic naval maneuver which maximizes one side's offensive firepower while minimizing that of the opposing force.

Rapid dominance
Blitzkrieg – a method of warfare whereby an attacking force is spearheaded by a dense concentration of armoured and motorized or mechanized infantry formations, and heavily backed up by close air support.[6]
Carpet bombing – also known as saturation bombing, is a large aerial bombing done in a progressive manner to inflict damage in every part of a selected area of land.[7]
Human wave attack
Shock tactics
Swarming (military)
Planned attack
Use of supporting fire
Ambush
Indirect fire support
Base of fire
Flying wedge (used by Alexander the Great)
Armoured spearhead
Encirclement
Hammer and anvil
Inverted wedge
Frontal assault
Holding attack – to hold the enemy in position while other offensive or defensive activity takes place[citation needed].
Penetration or infiltration
Pincer movement – an army assaults an enemy by attacking two sides at opposite locations, often planning to cut off the enemy from retreat or additional support in preparation for annihilation.
Bull horn formation – an army assaults an enemy force by sending troops to the enemy's flanks and by attacking their front attacking three areas at once, often planning to cut off any retreat or support as well as confusing the enemy in preparation for annihilation.
Flanking maneuver
Interdiction – severing or disrupting lines of communication and supply
Air interdiction
Control MSR (main supply routes)
Envelopment tactics
Circumvallation
Finnish motti tactics
Siege (For attacking fortified places)
Vertical envelopment
Airborne forces
Air mobile forces
Rapid deployment
Capturing key points
Airborne operations
Air mobile operations
Amphibious operations
Motorized operations
Tank desant
Mechanized operations
Armored operations
Raiding – a small team is inserted deep behind enemy lines to capture a high-value individual or destroy a vital enemy installation then extracted before the enemy can respond.
Decapitation strike
Preemptive war
Disrupting communications
Electronic countermeasures
Radar jamming
Radio jamming
Defensive tactics

Defensive trenches were used commonly during World War I
Basic principles
Defence in depth
Mutual support (e.g., by crossfire)
Echelon formation
Phalanx formation
All round defence
Force dispersal
Fire Trap
Fighting withdrawal
Reserved demolitions
Scorched earth
Booby traps
Minefields
Trench warfare
Counter attack
Breakout
Counter battery fire
Rapid reaction force
Delaying defence
Break contact
Hedgehog defence
military bottleneck
Pakfront
Fortification
Field works (entrenchments)
Over head protection
Revetting
Sangars
Shell scrapes
Foxholes
Manholes
Spider holes
Strong points
Use and improvement of terrain
High ground
Protection
Natural barriers – e.g., rivers
Reverse slope defence
Obstacles and barriers – man made
Barbed wire
Anti-vehicle ditches
Anti-vehicle berms (knife edges)
Multiple axis of movement



STEALTH is a valid millitary tactic known WORLD WIDE as not only VALID but also as a fair playstyle!

Hmm so You're saying there are soldiers in real armies that are trained to use cloak type abilities and can vanish from combat at any given time even after they were noticed ?



Real stealth combat tactics have nothing to do with the ones presented in video games and bringing above wall of text as an argument is laughable.

yes that is what i am saying and yes they have developed invisibility and use it and every time i am asked that question i show the link to it and its use.
im no longer going to be doing that.
because, there is such a thing as google search, if you want to see the videos and the proof invisibility is in use now for the past 10 years+ then do a google search, it is easy to find.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Cloak involves no strategy. It will be nerfed hard next.

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

DK's Wings, Sorc's Ball of Lightning, Warden's Crystallized Shield, all have very similar functionality. If ZoS were to take your poor advice and make cloak cost OVER 9000! Then I'd expect to see similar costs for the similar abilities.

Also, there is an Ulti that charges itself. It's called Onslaught. lol

Comparing cloak to all other mentioned defenses is a joke.

Not really. All those abilities counter projectile builds, but are absolutely useless against anybody within melee range, and an IQ over 70.

The only thing that gives cloak an advantage over those other abilities is that is has greater defensive value against scrubs, through becoming invisible.

However, we could argue that Wings have greater offensive value as they reflect damage.

Or that Ball of Lightning has greater offensive value as it's stuns targets around you.

Or that Crystallized Shield has greater balanced value, as it has ridiculous Ulti regen, and costs almost nothing if hit with 3 projectiles.

Each of those abilities has it's advantages and disadvantages. I urge anyone who thinks anyone of those abilities is overpowered to go play a few hundred hours with each class.

Fact that you're in meele range doesnt mean that suddenly You wont use projectiles anymore especially if You're magicka build with projectiles being part of Your offense. Even in meele range You can still have issues against someone with anti projectile ability even when that person IQ is under 70.

Actually against total scrubs wings are situationally better since scrubs are not even noticing the're killing themselves. Other then that cloak is superior to other defense in any scenario. Becoming invisible especially on demand and especially in game like ESO gives You adventage over everyone not only scrubs.

What about DoTs ? Are those also countered by wings , ball of lightning , crystalized shields etc ? Because they are countered by cloak.

What about debuffs applied as secondary effects are those also countered by mentioned above abilities ? Because they're countered by cloak.

What about single target non projectile abilities ? Are those countered by mentioned above abilities ? Because they're countered by cloak.


Cloak counters much more abilities then other mentioned defenses. You also forget that secondary effect of cloak is giving 100% crit chance on next hit and applies major resistances buffs through passive so it balances it out with other abilities secondary effects. I actualy played hundreds of hours on each class which i think you did not.

You're welcome to believe what you'd like, this is the internet after all. You need to take everything with a grain of salt.

However, bringing the Nightblade passives into the conversation without bringing the passives of other classes is a bit silly. Don't you think?

DK's get 12% increased healing while wings are active. They also get 5% extra health recovery while they are slotted.

Sorcerer's get 2% Weapon and Spell Damage for each Sorcerer ability slotted. Using Ball of Lightning has a small chance to auto-execute targets below 15% health. (or any other lightning damage for that matter, just sticking to the topic at hand)

Warden's get 500 Physical and Spell Resistance for slotting Crystallized Shield.

Nightblade's get Major Resolve and Major Ward by casting Shadowy Disguise, they also get 3% increase to their max health for having it slotted.

All in all, I'd say that looks pretty balanced. Major Resolve and Major ward might be a bit too strong for a passive, if it were to be changed I'd suggest changing it to Minor Resolve/Ward and putting the Major Resolve/Ward buffs on Mirage. It's also worth noting that the Major Resolve/Ward only lasts for 6 seconds, unless you start wearing heavy armor. By doing so you lose recovery and cost reductions, and by wearing more than 2 pieces of heavy, you start gimping your damage. Not by much, as I know there are some crazy strong heavy armor sets.

I love all classes, and would love to see them all be perfectly balance. However, perfection is an illusion, and... True balance is an illusion with so many people who don't truly play every class.

I think that Expert Hunter should get a 12 Meter morph similar to Radiant Magelight though, as 6 Meters is a joke, and you can use Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack from Stealth/Cloak and not be revealed by a 6 Meter Reveal.

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

.

Aeladiir wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Aeladiir wrote: »

Nightblade players are degenerates. Using invisibility (again: invisibility, not utilizing lack of vision) in order to gain an advantage over your opponent is a display of cowardice and beta status. Utilizing invisibility in any PVP game is a display of low skill, self-humiliation, non-existant honour, and low morals.

SO, You think us people whom use stealth are cowards and immoral low lifes?
well, we here at the US Millitary thinks differently!
Stealth - Army, Navy, Military, Air Force, Marines, Coast ...
using prevailing weather – the tactical use of weather as a force multiplier has influenced many important battles throughout history, such as the Battle of Waterloo.[2]
Fire attacks – reconnaissance by fire is used by apprehensive soldiers when they suspect the enemy is nearby.
Force concentration – the practice of concentrating a military force against a portion of an enemy force.[3]
Night combat – combat that takes place at night. It often requires more preparation than combat during daylight and can provide significant tactical advantages and disadvantages to both the attacker and defender.[4]
Reconnaissance – a mission to obtain information by visual observation or other detection methods, about the activities and resources of the enemy or potential enemy, or about the meteorologic, hydrographic, or geographic characteristics of a particular area.[5]
Smoke screening - the practice of creating clouds of smoke positioned to provide concealment, allowing military forces to advance or retreat across open terrain without coming under direct fire from the enemy

Individual movement techniques
Fire and movement (also known as leapfrogging) – working in 'fire teams', one team attempts to suppress the enemy while the other moves either toward the enemy or to a more favourable position.
Basic drill – a standard drill that all individual soldiers are supposed to perform if they come under fire.
Contact drill
Immediate ambush drill
Counter ambush drill
Hull-down (in armored warfare)
Shoot-and-scoot
Infiltration tactics
Marching fire
Four Fs: find, fix, flank, finish
Overwatch
Bounding overwatch
Center peel
Patrolling
Reconnaissance patrol
Fighting patrol
Standing patrol (OP/LP)
Ambush
Linear ambush
L ambush
Area ambush
Guerrilla

Penetration of the center: This involves the creation of a gap in the enemy line and its exploitation. Two ways of accomplishing this are separating enemy forces and using a reserve to exploit the gap that forms between them (e.g. Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC), the first recorded use of the penetration of the center) or having fast, elite forces smash at a specific point in the enemy line (an enemy weak spot or an area where your elites are at their best in striking power) and, while reserves and holding forces hold your opponent, drive quickly and immediately for the enemy's command or base (i.e., blitzkrieg).

Battle of Issus, a classic example of the single envelopment
Attack from a defensive position: Establishing a strong defensive position from which to defend and attack your opponent. However, the defensive can become too passive and result in ultimate defeat (e.g., Siege of Alesia and the Battle of the Granicus).

Battle of Maling, the earliest known use of the feigned retreat
Single envelopment: A strong flank beating its opponent opposite and, with the aid of holding attacks, attack an opponent in the rear. Sometimes, the establishment of a strong, hidden force behind a weak flank will prevent your opponent from carrying out their own single envelopment (e.g., Battle of Rocroi).
Double envelopment: Both flanks defeat their opponent opposite and launch a rear attack on the enemy center. Its most famous use was Hannibal's tactical masterpiece, the Battle of Cannae and was frequently used by the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front of World War II.
Attack in oblique order: This involves placing your flanks in a slanted fashion (refusing one's flank) or giving a vast part of your force to a single flank (e.g., Battle of Leuthen). The latter can be disastrous, however, due to the imbalance of force.
Feigned retreat: Having a frontal force fake a retreat, drawing the opponent in pursuit and then launching an assault with strong force held in reserve (such as the Battle of Maling and the Battle of Hastings). However, a feigned retreat may devolve into a real one, such as in the Battle of Grunwald.
Indirect approach: Having a minority of your force demonstrate in front of your opponent while the majority of your force advance from a hidden area and attack the enemy in the rear or flank (e.g., Battle of Chancellorsville).
Crossing the "T": a classic naval maneuver which maximizes one side's offensive firepower while minimizing that of the opposing force.

Rapid dominance
Blitzkrieg – a method of warfare whereby an attacking force is spearheaded by a dense concentration of armoured and motorized or mechanized infantry formations, and heavily backed up by close air support.[6]
Carpet bombing – also known as saturation bombing, is a large aerial bombing done in a progressive manner to inflict damage in every part of a selected area of land.[7]
Human wave attack
Shock tactics
Swarming (military)
Planned attack
Use of supporting fire
Ambush
Indirect fire support
Base of fire
Flying wedge (used by Alexander the Great)
Armoured spearhead
Encirclement
Hammer and anvil
Inverted wedge
Frontal assault
Holding attack – to hold the enemy in position while other offensive or defensive activity takes place[citation needed].
Penetration or infiltration
Pincer movement – an army assaults an enemy by attacking two sides at opposite locations, often planning to cut off the enemy from retreat or additional support in preparation for annihilation.
Bull horn formation – an army assaults an enemy force by sending troops to the enemy's flanks and by attacking their front attacking three areas at once, often planning to cut off any retreat or support as well as confusing the enemy in preparation for annihilation.
Flanking maneuver
Interdiction – severing or disrupting lines of communication and supply
Air interdiction
Control MSR (main supply routes)
Envelopment tactics
Circumvallation
Finnish motti tactics
Siege (For attacking fortified places)
Vertical envelopment
Airborne forces
Air mobile forces
Rapid deployment
Capturing key points
Airborne operations
Air mobile operations
Amphibious operations
Motorized operations
Tank desant
Mechanized operations
Armored operations
Raiding – a small team is inserted deep behind enemy lines to capture a high-value individual or destroy a vital enemy installation then extracted before the enemy can respond.
Decapitation strike
Preemptive war
Disrupting communications
Electronic countermeasures
Radar jamming
Radio jamming
Defensive tactics

Defensive trenches were used commonly during World War I
Basic principles
Defence in depth
Mutual support (e.g., by crossfire)
Echelon formation
Phalanx formation
All round defence
Force dispersal
Fire Trap
Fighting withdrawal
Reserved demolitions
Scorched earth
Booby traps
Minefields
Trench warfare
Counter attack
Breakout
Counter battery fire
Rapid reaction force
Delaying defence
Break contact
Hedgehog defence
military bottleneck
Pakfront
Fortification
Field works (entrenchments)
Over head protection
Revetting
Sangars
Shell scrapes
Foxholes
Manholes
Spider holes
Strong points
Use and improvement of terrain
High ground
Protection
Natural barriers – e.g., rivers
Reverse slope defence
Obstacles and barriers – man made
Barbed wire
Anti-vehicle ditches
Anti-vehicle berms (knife edges)
Multiple axis of movement



STEALTH is a valid millitary tactic known WORLD WIDE as not only VALID but also as a fair playstyle!

@dwemer_paleologist
What part of "using invisibility (again: invisibility, not utilizing lack of vision) in order to gain an advantage over your opponent is a display of cowardice and beta status" was unclear to you, sir?

I am aware that you are not the smartest forum poster around, something that I have seen from your other posts in the past, but could you at least just read a post and try to understand it before replying to it?

you were very clear in your insult to all of us that use stealth and invisibility, i simply cleared up the fact that stealth and invisibility is nothing to carry shame and nothing worthy of insult and is a completely valid form of both playstyle and fighting.
and i did it without insulting you and with evidence of its placement.

and just to be clear here is the quote of what you said ...

Aeladiir wrote: »

Nightblade players are degenerates. Using invisibility (again: invisibility, not utilizing lack of vision) in order to gain an advantage over your opponent is a display of cowardice and beta status. Utilizing invisibility in any PVP game is a display of low skill, self-humiliation, non-existant honour, and low morals.

Aurielle wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I hate Cloak. It is frequently stupidly OP. That being said, whenever I have some extra gold on me and can actually afford to craft detect potions, the results are often hilarious in BGs where just about every NB is a wannabe snipe ganker:

https://youtu.be/v4pCysT3aGw

so you admit (even with video evidence) that you Destroy very easily nightblades that use cloak.
this certainly is Noteworthy in a thread asking for cloak to be nerfed.

... only when I use expensive detect potions that are mostly useless against any class that isn’t a NB, @dwemer_paleologist . You know how people got grumpy because they were “forced” to use Oblivion enchants and sets to directly counter sorc shields? It’s the same deal with detect pots. If there’s only one or two nightblades around, you’re far better off using tripots or immovable potions. I only used detect pots in the video I linked because I noticed the opposing teams were mostly full of nightblades and I wanted to ruin their collective day. It’s really funny when you see them desperately trying to cloak and crouch in plain sight, not understanding why their instant “I win” button isn’t working.