Can Dragonknights get an execute already?

Kanar · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

are the tackiest class since forever.

I think NB are much more tacky than DK.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

Kanar wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

are the tackiest class since forever.

I think NB are much more tacky than DK.

LMAO!!!! I meant Tankiest class, but I think you knew that. Pretty funny auto correct, thanks siri. Also, I agree.

John_Falstaff · November 2018

@Kanar , Eruption's issue is that it scales with max magicka. I currently have it morphed but not leveled, so I can't say what final tooltip at IV would be, but right now, Eruption's damage per GCD is much less than that of Flames of Oblivion - and you can't run both, even recasting Eruption every other rotation, because it would require magicka regen of ~750, not something found on stamina without specifically investing into it. Plus FoO gives Savagery, which also helps to keep crit up in absence of weapon power potions. I know it's an awkward question nowadays, but what damage you're doing and what kind of rotation you're running with Eruption?

ATomiX96 · November 2018

if every class gets a projectile reflect, sure

dont we just want all classes to have the same gameplay? *** diversity

Mintaka5 · November 2018

Shut up and go tank a dungeon!

Flame_of_Hades · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

I fully agree that the stamina version of every class is more powerful than their magic counterpart, although i will say that balance is perhaps closer on DK than others, in fact, mDK still might be ahead in a lot of peoples eyes. I think that is pretty hard to debate that stamina is generally more powerful than magic in PVP right now. Dodge Chance, Mobility and Burst being the biggest issues separating them IMO. However, DKs have major expedition and snare removal through class skills and they certainly have burst when they need it. Also, the only class with stamina execute is NB, so perhaps your issue is with weapon lines.

That said, some of the most potent 1vXers in this game are running around on tanky mDKs. They are extremely hard to kill, they wear down their opponents with snares, DoTs and hard CCs, and at opportune moments, they burst with Whip and Leap.

I am certainly not saying that anyone who disagrees with me is a bad player. I did not say that, nor will you ever hear me say that. I certainly stand by my statment that if you think DK dots arent very good, you need to learn to DK a bit better, because, Come on...That said, when balancing a class, you need to look at how that class is played both at the bottom and the top. Good mDKs are really potent right now, arguably more potent than a lot of other classes.

This has also been a consistent topic on the forums off and on for 4 years. I just don't see it changing, and frankly, as someone that has played a fair amount of mDK over the years, I tend to agree with the devs on this one. I dont think all classes need all things. You have a good magic spammable, the best hard and soft CCs in the game (you have both in one skill), extremely powerful ultimates, an abundance of self heals, and are the tackiest class since forever. I just dont think an execute needs to be on that list.

Fair enough, but I would argue that mag dk dots are strong, but they should be top when it comes to dots... because dot/control class..... but that is more of a problem with bleeds.

As for "some of the most potent 1vXers in this game are running around on tanky mDKs.", i gave someone a challenge a few days ago. do a youtube search for "eso 1vx" and find the first mag dk 1vx clip that has more than 3 max cp players getting "1vxed", then look at the date it was published. unless something has been uploaded in the last few days, i dont think you will find a recent one.

Now look at the other 1vx videos. They have multiple max cp people in many clips.. recently. in fact, most 1vx is being done by stamina classes or mNBs.

Unlike other classes that can take an enemy from full-0 in .5 seconds, mag dk can't even come close to that against a competent target. Because of how easy sustain is, it is VERY hard to out sustain an target, and due to the lack of an execute, you have to severely outplay your target in order to secure the kill, because as is, most people get to 5-6k health, and then roll/block and heal their way to full again, instead of getting punished for letting themselves get that low.

On my stamblade/mag sorc, if some gets to 5k health, they have about a 25% chance of getting out of execute range, instead of the 75% chance they have on my mag dk, because the kill usually requires them to be out of stamina, to be out of cc immunity, at about half health, AND for me to have an ult up.

PoseidonEvil · November 2018

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

And its not about kill points, it's the same issue in open world or duels. Get people down to no health they just dip out spam heals and block, then go back at you. No execute, when some classes have 2.

REVERB REVERB REVERB REVERB lol

Flame_of_Hades · November 2018

PoseidonEvil wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

And its not about kill points, it's the same issue in open world or duels. Get people down to no health they just dip out spam heals and block, then go back at you. No execute, when some classes have 2.

REVERB REVERB REVERB REVERB lol

stamina DK execute was never a problem, due to, what, 3 executes in the stam skill lines?

Adeshal · November 2018

Dragon Leap is our execute.

I think that they could put execute ability instead of Stonefist. Fossilize is much better CC ability (except range).

John_Falstaff · November 2018

@Flame_of_Hades , people mostly focus on PvP aspect in the thread, but in PvE, having an execute also matters - the one you can use as spammable, in style of Impale, and I don't think DW line provides something like that (Tornado is way too expensive). So, to a degree, question stands for stamina too.

Flame_of_Hades · November 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Flame_of_Hades , people mostly focus on PvP aspect in the thread, but in PvE, having an execute also matters - the one you can use as spammable, in style of Impale, and I don't think DW line provides something like that (Tornado is way too expensive). So, to a degree, question stands for stamina too.

as far as i know, that is a problem for every stam class BUT stam nb.

John_Falstaff · November 2018

@Flame_of_Hades , sorcs have 'automatic execute' built into class passives (works for stam too), though I'll agree that it's probably not an issue that is unique for DK. Still, it is an issue.

Ragnarock41 · November 2018

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Shut up and go tank a dungeon!

ok wrobel

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

I fully agree that the stamina version of every class is more powerful than their magic counterpart, although i will say that balance is perhaps closer on DK than others, in fact, mDK still might be ahead in a lot of peoples eyes. I think that is pretty hard to debate that stamina is generally more powerful than magic in PVP right now. Dodge Chance, Mobility and Burst being the biggest issues separating them IMO. However, DKs have major expedition and snare removal through class skills and they certainly have burst when they need it. Also, the only class with stamina execute is NB, so perhaps your issue is with weapon lines.

That said, some of the most potent 1vXers in this game are running around on tanky mDKs. They are extremely hard to kill, they wear down their opponents with snares, DoTs and hard CCs, and at opportune moments, they burst with Whip and Leap.

I am certainly not saying that anyone who disagrees with me is a bad player. I did not say that, nor will you ever hear me say that. I certainly stand by my statment that if you think DK dots arent very good, you need to learn to DK a bit better, because, Come on...That said, when balancing a class, you need to look at how that class is played both at the bottom and the top. Good mDKs are really potent right now, arguably more potent than a lot of other classes.

This has also been a consistent topic on the forums off and on for 4 years. I just don't see it changing, and frankly, as someone that has played a fair amount of mDK over the years, I tend to agree with the devs on this one. I dont think all classes need all things. You have a good magic spammable, the best hard and soft CCs in the game (you have both in one skill), extremely powerful ultimates, an abundance of self heals, and are the tackiest class since forever. I just dont think an execute needs to be on that list.

Fair enough, but I would argue that mag dk dots are strong, but they should be top when it comes to dots... because dot/control class..... but that is more of a problem with bleeds.

As for "some of the most potent 1vXers in this game are running around on tanky mDKs.", i gave someone a challenge a few days ago. do a youtube search for "eso 1vx" and find the first mag dk 1vx clip that has more than 3 max cp players getting "1vxed", then look at the date it was published. unless something has been uploaded in the last few days, i dont think you will find a recent one.

Now look at the other 1vx videos. They have multiple max cp people in many clips.. recently. in fact, most 1vx is being done by stamina classes or mNBs.

Unlike other classes that can take an enemy from full-0 in .5 seconds, mag dk can't even come close to that against a competent target. Because of how easy sustain is, it is VERY hard to out sustain an target, and due to the lack of an execute, you have to severely outplay your target in order to secure the kill, because as is, most people get to 5-6k health, and then roll/block and heal their way to full again, instead of getting punished for letting themselves get that low.

On my stamblade/mag sorc, if some gets to 5k health, they have about a 25% chance of getting out of execute range, instead of the 75% chance they have on my mag dk, because the kill usually requires them to be out of stamina, to be out of cc immunity, at about half health, AND for me to have an ult up.

Well all classes need buffs if you are using nightblades as the benchmark. That we can certainly agree on. I am just not sure an execute is really what DKs need. If I were buffing DK, I would start with sustain. I think if you gave them an execute that was worth a darn, it would be over the top.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Flame_of_Hades , people mostly focus on PvP aspect in the thread, but in PvE, having an execute also matters - the one you can use as spammable, in style of Impale, and I don't think DW line provides something like that (Tornado is way too expensive). So, to a degree, question stands for stamina too.

In PVE:
For stamina, only nightblades use a unique execute. Sorcs get some extra passively (although since they are in last place for Stam DPS not really a huge issue). All Stam classes also get execute damage from poison injection, slaughter passive (DW line), and bloodthirsty jewelry, which definitely adds up. You dont need steel tornado for a DW execute. NBs are in first, but that gap really closed this patch, and merciless and buffs are a bigger reason than killers blade for why they are on top.

For magic 3 classes have executes, but the damage, save mag Warden, is again very in line this patch. What keeps DK non competitive is a range issue not an execute issue. Sorc probably has the weakest PVE execute, but the biggest factor that keep Sorc from being competitive is sustain. Mostly, execute serve to simplify your rotation for a quarter of the fight. Haha

Koensol · November 2018

Magdk should never get an execute imo. The pressure they can put out in pvp is more than enough to close kills. If they would get an execute it would turn things out of balance for sure.

vesselwiththepestle · November 2018

Correct me if I am wrong, but Stam DK has Rending Slashes and/or Shrouded Dagger as Execute. Due to Slaughter Passive its Damage is increased if enemy health <25%.

However, I don't know about any Mag DK execute, but they have Molten Whip / Flame Leash instead which is kinda unique, don't you think?

John_Falstaff · November 2018

@Oreyn_Bearclaw , not speaking from stamblade perspective, but on a magblade, Impale is very high in the parse. I won't be arguing, it's not the biggest source of imbalance, but it's still one of them, that's the point.

@vesselwiththepestle , can't say much about shrouded daggers, but rending slashes don't do such an insane amount of damage with initial hits, per se, so it's not a huge base value to add the passive to in first place. They're meta as a spammable latest patch, but not in a small degree due to the fact that they help to proc both enchants on cooldown. For a non-redgaurd sDK, it's way more attractive to use Claw as spammable, damage is more or less the same, but makes world of difference in sustain.

Oh, and I didn't mention that the passive is a percentage boost, it's not multiplicative with other bonuses, so while on paper it may look formidable, it is still added to base value. So 20% wouldn't be 1.2 times what the skill already doing - it would be that plus 0.2 of base before any bonuses applied (such as CP). So in reality, it won't give anywhere near the boost one can expect while looking at the tooltip.

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

Koensol wrote: »

Magdk should never get an execute imo. The pressure they can put out in pvp is more than enough to close kills. If they would get an execute it would turn things out of balance for sure.

I agree, an Execute just doesnt work with the DK class skills.
However I'd like to see that DK's get rewarded for keeping the pressure up over the duration of the fight.
I see this more from a PVE perspective, since I dont like to PVP much on my magDK.

Maybe increase the DMG of the Dots (Ardent flame skillline only) when they get reapplied withing X Seconds, after they ran out or get purged.
This would reduce the gap fram MagDK DD to Stamina DD's in PVE.
For PVP ppl would have to decide to purge the dots, but risk to get them reapplied even stronger, or let them run over the time, and try to kill the DK before he can reapply them.

ZarkingFrued · November 2018

Guess I should have been like everyone else on the forums and asked for the dev's to nerf every execute in the game rather than a buff to one of the classes I play lol. It's been long known that magdks are lacking in the ability to close a fight, BGs were just an example lmfao. just a suggestion since every other class Ive played has no trouble ending one.

Stibbons · November 2018

Sure if Templars can have major sorcery attached to some skill!

Onefrkncrzypope · November 2018

Swomp23 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

But you got an instant spammable at least lol
Mdk: no execute, no speed, poopy sustain
SDK: no execute,no speed, poopy sustain, no spammable.( Don't you try to say CW or DS lol)

CW or DS

No seriously I understand why u hate DS, but what's the problem with CW? It even heals u. As a stam DK I play 2h/DW, so i never had to use CW and rely on shrouded daggers.
Genuinely curious.

I was so excited when that came out. I rebuilt my main from pve to pvp. I got level ten pjsijic in like 2 hours(I did caldwell gold so I have every wayshrine). Leveled all the skill that I wanted to try, finally I qued...... I'm in, I was in cyrodiil and I was solo but I came across a player. I couldn't land a single CW. It is so impossible because of its clunky design. Like miss miss miss it was bad. Maybe this patch because while im in sejanus I can claw some one in roebeck(hyperbole) but I havent tried. It was so garbage of a skill. imbue is great because ranged attacks follow players but yeah CW is really bad in even low lag environtments.

Swomp23 · November 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

But you got an instant spammable at least lol
Mdk: no execute, no speed, poopy sustain
SDK: no execute,no speed, poopy sustain, no spammable.( Don't you try to say CW or DS lol)

CW or DS

No seriously I understand why u hate DS, but what's the problem with CW? It even heals u. As a stam DK I play 2h/DW, so i never had to use CW and rely on shrouded daggers.
Genuinely curious.

I was so excited when that came out. I rebuilt my main from pve to pvp. I got level ten pjsijic in like 2 hours(I did caldwell gold so I have every wayshrine). Leveled all the skill that I wanted to try, finally I qued...... I'm in, I was in cyrodiil and I was solo but I came across a player. I couldn't land a single CW. It is so impossible because of its clunky design. Like miss miss miss it was bad. Maybe this patch because while im in sejanus I can claw some one in roebeck(hyperbole) but I havent tried. It was so garbage of a skill. imbue is great because ranged attacks follow players but yeah CW is really bad in even low lag environtments.

Hmm that sucks, but I still dont get why. CW should only empower your next LA right? So if normally you can LA weave, you shouldn't miss those LA just because you casted CW before? I don't get it.

Defilted · November 2018

No specific execute skill, but...

Draw essence/petrify/Ferocious/whip is a the long way to an execute.....lol It is an execute combo, not just one skill. It is like a bonus.

NyassaV · November 2018

Just like Stam Whip this will never happen. Better off fighting a different battle.

DK already has some of the best self healing and single target pressure so the last thing they need is an execute.

StShoot · November 2018

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but Stam DK has Rending Slashes and/or Shrouded Dagger as Execute. Due to Slaughter Passive its Damage is increased if enemy health <25%.

However, I don't know about any Mag DK execute, but they have Molten Whip / Flame Leash instead which is kinda unique, don't you think?

It was unique when it was free and undodgeable and hadnt a cooldwon ... it was like our execute but now its semi worthless in Pvp. i only use it because of the heal and because you dont have anything better(in pve its worse)

Regarding an execute, indeed an active skill would be Op, but they coul tie the execute to powerlash, for example it deals 100% dmg if the target is below 25%. Since the ability has a cooldown i dont thin that it would be op (you know since they buffed frags and WoA after the changes, only skill that got a blank nerf was the whip).

The other possibility would be to tie the execute to a passive so it increases the dot dmg if the target is below xyz% that would work for stamina and magica dk, but here i see the problem that it either would underperform in pve, if it doesnt buff the ground aoe dots ( ash cloud elemental wall), but on the otherhand that would give the dk the possiility to execute with the destro ult ( and that would be pretty broken).

So yeah not sure what would be the right way, but im pretty sure that zos will **** it up if they try

Sorry for my bad english (i know its an insult to even call it english

susmitds · November 2018

StShoot wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but Stam DK has Rending Slashes and/or Shrouded Dagger as Execute. Due to Slaughter Passive its Damage is increased if enemy health <25%.

However, I don't know about any Mag DK execute, but they have Molten Whip / Flame Leash instead which is kinda unique, don't you think?

It was unique when it was free and undodgeable and hadnt a cooldwon ... it was like our execute but now its semi worthless in Pvp. i only use it because of the heal and because you dont have anything better(in pve its worse)

Regarding an execute, indeed an active skill would be Op, but they coul tie the execute to powerlash, for example it deals 100% dmg if the target is below 25%. Since the ability has a cooldown i dont thin that it would be op (you know since they buffed frags and WoA after the changes, only skill that got a blank nerf was the whip).

The other possibility would be to tie the execute to a passive so it increases the dot dmg if the target is below xyz% that would work for stamina and magica dk, but here i see the problem that it either would underperform in pve, if it doesnt buff the ground aoe dots ( ash cloud elemental wall), but on the otherhand that would give the dk the possiility to execute with the destro ult ( and that would be pretty broken).

So yeah not sure what would be the right way, but im pretty sure that zos will **** it up if they try

Sorry for my bad english (i know its an insult to even call it english

They nerfed all procs someway or other. Frag's now is very slow. Assassin's Will lost its snare, is very slow now and got a pretty big cost on top of the other nerfs.

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

StShoot wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but Stam DK has Rending Slashes and/or Shrouded Dagger as Execute. Due to Slaughter Passive its Damage is increased if enemy health <25%.

However, I don't know about any Mag DK execute, but they have Molten Whip / Flame Leash instead which is kinda unique, don't you think?

It was unique when it was free and undodgeable and hadnt a cooldwon ... it was like our execute but now its semi worthless in Pvp. i only use it because of the heal and because you dont have anything better(in pve its worse)

Regarding an execute, indeed an active skill would be Op, but they coul tie the execute to powerlash, for example it deals 100% dmg if the target is below 25%. Since the ability has a cooldown i dont thin that it would be op (you know since they buffed frags and WoA after the changes, only skill that got a blank nerf was the whip).

The other possibility would be to tie the execute to a passive so it increases the dot dmg if the target is below xyz% that would work for stamina and magica dk, but here i see the problem that it either would underperform in pve, if it doesnt buff the ground aoe dots ( ash cloud elemental wall), but on the otherhand that would give the dk the possiility to execute with the destro ult ( and that would be pretty broken).

So yeah not sure what would be the right way, but im pretty sure that zos will **** it up if they try

Sorry for my bad english (i know its an insult to even call it english

actually i would not say its to weak in PVE.
The dots are too weak overall in PVE, as I stated before...:Eruption ist stronger DOt on ST than Ember or Enguldiunf....thtas the main problem IMO.

Xvorg · November 2018

ATomiX96 wrote: »

if every class gets a projectile reflect, sure
dont we just want all classes to have the same gameplay? *** diversity

Though I don't support the execute on DKs, I can say that all the classes do have not one, but 2 reflects in the S/B line. Even, there are sets that give you that ability at no cost.

Xvorg · November 2018

Defilted wrote: »

No specific execute skill, but...

Draw essence/petrify/Ferocious/whip is a the long way to an execute.....lol It is an execute combo, not just one skill. It is like a bonus.

After that you ask for a magicka loan to the IMF or the WB, because even with ferocious and essence in that combo, the magicka drain is insane.