Can Dragonknights get an execute already?

ZarkingFrued · November 2018

Seriously, you nerf the heck out of them constantly even though theres no need to. Can they at least get an execute? Every single BG I'm burning people down and someone else steals the kill because they have an execute on them. 20+ assists and like 12 kills. Switch to my stamsorc and I get straight 20-30 kill runs.

Onefrkncrzypope · November 2018

ZoS will say slot bloodthirsty. Then everything is an execute.

I know but that's what dks get

ZarkingFrued · November 2018

I know, I'm about to slot 2 bloodthirsty just to make it remotely work.

idk · November 2018

An execute does not make a class dps worthy. Zos balances, well, tries to balance, including the executes.

Darkenarlol · November 2018

you can get an execute on mDK (it is mdk right? because on stam

you have all the steelnado/executioner cheese allready)

when your fossilize become as useless as rune cage

AND your wings will lose reflect and snare remove/immune

your "stolen kills" is only an ego problem

if you value those "kill points" in bg more than team victory

and your great class performance... switch to any "kill stealer"

ZarkingFrued · November 2018

Someone must have been hurt by a dragonknight^^. Poor fella. Wings come at an outrageous cost, and fossilized is the only chance any mag dk has against speed stacking cheese stam builds.

ZarkingFrued · November 2018

And its not about kill points, it's the same issue in open world or duels. Get people down to no health they just dip out spam heals and block, then go back at you. No execute, when some classes have 2.

ZarkingFrued · November 2018

Additionally I just find it sad when people cry about class specific skills like whatever class they have doesnt have some crazy class skill other players hate. You're probably a cloak spamming NB anyhow lol.

VaxtinTheWolf · November 2018

What a triple post.

Maybe alter a passive like Searing Heat so that enemies under a certain health threshold, say 35% or so, take increased damage from dragon knight flame abilities. Maybe 60-75% more damage to the target.

Yes, I am only trying to target Magicka DK builds with that. A tiny change first to see where it goes then make adjustments later.

lucky_Sage · November 2018

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

Well if pvpers think the dots are too weak, I as pve player can only agree here. Even tho i oulled 71k+ in a raid setup at the dummy

But its really a problem for us pve mag dks...when the boss moves we loose a *** ton of dmg.
Stronger dots (engulfing / burning ember ) would contribute a lot to bring us closer to stams which can pull 10k+ more than we mag dks.

Some hodor stam nb nearly hit 90k Singletarget....why should anyone take a meele magdk to a trial when they could habe stam Nightblades which deal more dmg?
Minor brutality is already provided by the tank, so thats out of the question -.^

John_Falstaff · November 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Minor brutality is already provided by the tank, so thats out of the question -.^

That actually bothers me a lot, in particular. (Sorry, mentioning of a pain point got me bristled up.) NBs give their 'specialty group buff' simply by doing crit damage with any skill from their bread-and-butter damage-dealing skill tree slotted. DKs, to bring their grop buff, have to actually use a skill from a magicka-only tree that's mostly tanking-oriented. So for a DK damage dealer, bringing that buff implies making sacrifices to own damage. (At least for mDKs, Eruption got freshly buffed, though I'm not sure if it's still worth including in rotation. For stamina DKs... only wasting GCD and magicka on Molten Armaments.)

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Minor brutality is already provided by the tank, so thats out of the question -.^

That actually bothers me a lot, in particular. (Sorry, mentioning of a pain point got me bristled up.) NBs give their 'specialty group buff' simply by doing crit damage with any skill from their bread-and-butter damage-dealing skill tree slotted. DKs, to bring their grop buff, have to actually use a skill from a magicka-only tree that's mostly tanking-oriented. So for a DK damage dealer, bringing that buff implies making sacrifices to own damage. (At least for mDKs, Eruption got freshly buffed, though I'm not sure if it's still worth including in rotation. For stamina DKs... only wasting GCD and magicka on Molten Armaments.)

To answer your eruption question....Yes its definelty worth slotting
On the target dummy eruption is above burning embers and engulfing flames
Somewehere arround 3.8-4.5k on the solo dummy
In raids its even higher, but id nee dto check the parse to give you a number
IMO thats a flaw by itself...(same goes for blockade but i dont call for a nerf here)
How the duess can an aoe dot ability deal more dmg than class singletarget abilities, when there is no other enemy arround.

Granted For the cleave dmg its amazing, but for pure singletarget it makes no sense.

So im for a buff to burning ember and engulfing dmg (englufing is even worse from a pvp point of view since it feels like you wont hit a giant right in front of ya)

EDIT:
Here the numbers for eruption in a raid setup:

Dot DPS: 5175
Cast DPS: 621
Total: 5796 DPS

Compared to Burning Ember

Dot DPS: 4134
Cast DPS: 1186
Total: 5320 DPS

Yes Burning Embers heals, but Eruption has a Slow
YOu can cast Burning Ember 2x when Casting eruption once, Skillcost wise, thats pretty even. But it deals more Direct DMG on Cast (since you cast it twice, in the same duration you cast Eruption once)

Conclusion: Eruption deals more ST DPS than Burning Embers, costs about the same, but only needs to be casets once. All with the downside of not having a healing component (no problem in PVE, we have dedicated healers), but with the potential to deal the same Dmg to every add standing in it.

Even it its just 1 add, the DMG done by eruption is double that of Burning Embers, at the same price.

So ZOS pls, buff the ST Class dots, to be stronger on one target than a Class AOE Dot.

SodanTok · November 2018

Game is not balanced around BG scoring system.

dovakiin5574 · November 2018

There is a weapon based execute from 2h but not sure if that is helpful in your case

JinMori · November 2018

Wouldn't mind to see it, but which ability should they replace? I was thinking the stone fist, they could make one of the morphs scale from stamina or magicka and deal either fire or poison damage.

kojou · November 2018

I would rather have better sustain. I would have awesome DPS on my magicka DK if I could sustain a light attack rotation better.

But you are referring to the hot mess that is BGs...

md3788 · November 2018

Then they will probably nerf whip to make up for the execute damage. So does it really matter?

Sparr0w · November 2018

If you use rending as a spammable and bloodthirsty technically you have an execute

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

kojou wrote: »

I would rather have better sustain. I would have awesome DPS on my magicka DK if I could sustain a light attack rotation better.

But you are referring to the hot mess that is BGs...

How can you not sustain a magdk nowadays

Jes i cant sustain a 6mio dummy parse without heavyattacking or support....no one can (except they run something like lich or seducer)

3mio dummy no problemo
Raid no problemo
Dungeons...we the add die faster than a hummer in a pott of boiling water 😂

ChunkyCat · November 2018

Nerf fossilize.

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

md3788 wrote: »

Then they will probably nerf whip to make up for the execute damage. So does it really matter?

I dont think dk needs an execute
Dk has always been about sustained high damage without an execute.
For a loong time dk was on par with magplar or stamina (back in the good old days)

Now magplar can be played range thx to imbje weapon, thats okey templar has alot of ranged dots.

However this leaves mag dk as the last standing meele magicka dds and its also behind stamina in case of dmg
Dk needs to deal more dmg over a sustained fight, and he should be rewarded for it

Maybe something when a dot runs out or gets cleansed we get a 3 dec window to reaply the dot
If we are sucsessfull the dot dmg will be increased by X% stacking up to 5 times.

The longer the fight the stronger the dk will become...on par with the motto or the dk for beeing able to stand his ground

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

Onefrkncrzypope · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

Dev in disguise..... Lol jk but really you are talking almost years ago back when people actually had prolonged fights. That isn't the case anymore. Heals are outrageous, most burst then run, and dks are the only classes that have to save their ulti for sustain. The game is going towards call of duty fighting style. A dk does not fit in that type of game.

Flame_of_Hades · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

Onefrkncrzypope · November 2018

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

But you got an instant spammable at least lol
Mdk: no execute, no speed, poopy sustain
SDK: no execute,no speed, poopy sustain, no spammable.( Don't you try to say CW or DS lol)

Kanar · November 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Minor brutality is already provided by the tank, so thats out of the question -.^

That actually bothers me a lot, in particular. (Sorry, mentioning of a pain point got me bristled up.) NBs give their 'specialty group buff' simply by doing crit damage with any skill from their bread-and-butter damage-dealing skill tree slotted. DKs, to bring their grop buff, have to actually use a skill from a magicka-only tree that's mostly tanking-oriented. So for a DK damage dealer, bringing that buff implies making sacrifices to own damage. (At least for mDKs, Eruption got freshly buffed, though I'm not sure if it's still worth including in rotation. For stamina DKs... only wasting GCD and magicka on Molten Armaments.)

Eruption is even worth running on stamDK. Here's a hint: look at the damage per GCD not DPS.

In trials I run eruption for more damage, and everywhere else I run igneous weaps so I don't need to waste good pots.

Swomp23 · November 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

you can get an execute on mDK (it is mdk right? because on stam

you have all the steelnado/executioner cheese allready)

when your fossilize become as useless as rune cage

AND your wings will lose reflect and snare remove/immune

your "stolen kills" is only an ego problem

if you value those "kill points" in bg more than team victory

and your great class performance... switch to any "kill stealer"

TBF, kill steal in BG can be a real issue if it's stolen by the 3rd team.

Swomp23 · November 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

But you got an instant spammable at least lol
Mdk: no execute, no speed, poopy sustain
SDK: no execute,no speed, poopy sustain, no spammable.( Don't you try to say CW or DS lol)

CW or DS

No seriously I understand why u hate DS, but what's the problem with CW? It even heals u. As a stam DK I play 2h/DW, so i never had to use CW and rely on shrouded daggers.
Genuinely curious.

Xvorg · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

Well, NB is one of the most powerful classes, even if it's played wrong..

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Honestly if our DoTs where acaully impactful we wouldn't needs one but we'll our DoTs are kind of week

That has to be a troll post or you have a serious L2DK issue.

DKs certainly do not need an execute in PVP. They are one of the most powerful classes in PVP if played well. They are about standing their ground and using pressure to drain your target of resources and a timely burst to kill. And yes, you have burst if you do it right.

One of the most powerful classes, if played well. wow, so you get to say that anyone who disagrees just isn't playing well? sorry... no. Every stamina class is out performing mag dk, just due to movement and, o ya, an execute.

I fully agree that the stamina version of every class is more powerful than their magic counterpart, although i will say that balance is perhaps closer on DK than others, in fact, mDK still might be ahead in a lot of peoples eyes. I think that is pretty hard to debate that stamina is generally more powerful than magic in PVP right now. Dodge Chance, Mobility and Burst being the biggest issues separating them IMO. However, DKs have major expedition and snare removal through class skills and they certainly have burst when they need it. Also, the only class with stamina execute is NB, so perhaps your issue is with weapon lines.

That said, some of the most potent 1vXers in this game are running around on tanky mDKs. They are extremely hard to kill, they wear down their opponents with snares, DoTs and hard CCs, and at opportune moments, they burst with Whip and Leap.

I am certainly not saying that anyone who disagrees with me is a bad player. I did not say that, nor will you ever hear me say that. I certainly stand by my statment that if you think DK dots arent very good, you need to learn to DK a bit better, because, Come on...That said, when balancing a class, you need to look at how that class is played both at the bottom and the top. Good mDKs are really potent right now, arguably more potent than a lot of other classes.

This has also been a consistent topic on the forums off and on for 4 years. I just don't see it changing, and frankly, as someone that has played a fair amount of mDK over the years, I tend to agree with the devs on this one. I dont think all classes need all things. You have a good magic spammable, the best hard and soft CCs in the game (you have both in one skill), extremely powerful ultimates, an abundance of self heals, and are the tackiest class since forever. I just dont think an execute needs to be on that list.