Thought: Bolt Escape acting like Dodge?

Valrien · November 2018

It has the same cost increase as dodge, and logically it would be basically impossible to hit a ball of pure lightning moving at the speed of light.

It would also add a new layer of defense to Sorcerer. Sure our healing is awful and our shields keep getting nerfed, but we do have two methods of dodging.

To accompany this change, I would also advocate for omnidirectional Bolt Escape and no loss of Momentum (and better terrain detection) to make it function even more like a true dodge roll.

D0PAMINE · November 2018

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

Streak definitely needs revisited. It’s clunky and barely worth a slot on your bars. 90% of the time I use it is because I am stuck in combat and can’t mount.

I would like to see the ball of lightening morph function more like wings. Have it apply to all projectiles and potentially gap closers, as they nullify the skill completely.

I think it would also be a reasonable place to give Sorcs some kind of snare removal.

Lastly, the stack cost needs to go or at least get toned down. It’s the only skill with a cost increase, which just doesn’t sit well with a class that already struggles with sustain.

If there is one skill in all of ESO that needs a stack cost, it’s cloak.

Valrien · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Streak definitely needs revisited. It’s clunky and barely worth a slot on your bars. 90% of the time I use it is because I am stuck in combat and can’t mount.

I would like to see the ball of lightening morph function more like wings. Have it apply to all projectiles and potentially gap closers, as they nullify the skill completely.

I think it would also be a reasonable place to give Sorcs some kind of snare removal.

Lastly, the stack cost needs to go or at least get toned down. It’s the only skill with a cost increase, which just doesn’t sit well with a class that already struggles with sustain.

If there is one skill in all of ESO that needs a stack cost, it’s cloak.

These are good

Burtan · November 2018

Seems a bit strong but if stuff like cloak or shade has no stacking cost then streak certainly shouldn't.

idk · November 2018

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

It is used in PvP. It is a very good escape.

I do not think OP's idea will fly though. Especially in PvP Sorcs have access to two shields that are moderately smaller. Even with being able to crit them they still get the players resist, which should include their inpen. OMG, a sorc needs to stack some inpen now.

Somewhere · November 2018

Yeah I had brought this up in the sorcerer discord. Basically the logic is that I see a lot of people simply suggest removing the stacking cost, but that's the kind of band aid fix zos usually does. Bolt Escape needs to feel good to use first, like how dodging feels good to use. I personally don't see a problem with bolt escape essentially acting in this way since, after all you do give up a skill slot for it. We all know skill slots are a premium no matter what class you play.

Beardimus · November 2018

BoL getting better defence I'm all for

BUT streak needs better offence. Longer range or a longer CC then we could use it instead of reach as a CC also, remove the stack cost if used and hits a target (i.e. Offensive) so we have a clear offence / defence morph.

ESO_Nightingale · November 2018

i think they should make it so that you dont get tped off the top of a small hill and hit the ground when you use it would be good, i just want to go down the hill, thanks!

Valrien · November 2018

idk wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

It is used in PvP. It is a very good escape.

I do not think OP's idea will fly though. Especially in PvP Sorcs have access to two shields that are moderately smaller. Even with being able to crit them they still get the players resist, which should include their inpen. OMG, a sorc needs to stack some inpen now.

They've always stacked Impen. Most Sorcs don't use Divines, it was just a meme

ezio45 · November 2018

or..... just an idea, why dont we make it work how it originally worked before stupid nerfs happened to it?

like the decreased range and increased cost per additional cast.....

kypranb14_ESO · November 2018

I agree that streak shouldn't have a stacking cost, the same way all similar abilities do not have a stacking cost.

As a Magblade main, I can say that it's ridiculous that the Ball of Lightning morph has a stacking cost. Shadowy Disguise, Ball of Lightning, Reflective Scales, and Crystallized Shield all have very similar functions. So either they should all have a stacking cost increase, or none of them should.

However, by adding a stacking cost increase to all of these skills... You'd just ruin them. They'd be unslotted by almost every player, and replaced with other forms of defense.

ku5h · November 2018

idk wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

It is used in PvP. It is a very good escape.

I do not think OP's idea will fly though. Especially in PvP Sorcs have access to two shields that are moderately smaller. Even with being able to crit them they still get the players resist, which should include their inpen. OMG, a sorc needs to stack some inpen now.

Why are you just parroting last weeks cool kids phrases that have nothing to do with the actual tread. Yea, omg sorc has to now stack inpen and omg his to stack health and omg has to stack magicka and omg has to stack mitigation and omg has to stack more into regen then any other spec and yea omg it to has to stack SD contrary to most that believe sorc gets its dmg from Magnus's ass.
Please show me set combo that can do that, because my stamNB has all of that and hits like a truck, not like my noodle wielder sorc.

idk · November 2018

Valrien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

It is used in PvP. It is a very good escape.

I do not think OP's idea will fly though. Especially in PvP Sorcs have access to two shields that are moderately smaller. Even with being able to crit them they still get the players resist, which should include their inpen. OMG, a sorc needs to stack some inpen now.

They've always stacked Impen. Most Sorcs don't use Divines, it was just a meme

Maybe. Shield stacking sorcs certainly had little use for the trait until now.

Valrien · November 2018

idk wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

It is used in PvP. It is a very good escape.

I do not think OP's idea will fly though. Especially in PvP Sorcs have access to two shields that are moderately smaller. Even with being able to crit them they still get the players resist, which should include their inpen. OMG, a sorc needs to stack some inpen now.

They've always stacked Impen. Most Sorcs don't use Divines, it was just a meme

Maybe. Shield stacking sorcs certainly had little use for the trait until now.

No, it had a lot of use.

I don't know especially where this is coming from but please do not comment if you don't actually know about Sorc.

Many Sorcs still used Impen because it was very easy to break shields even pre-Murkmire, so Impen provided an additional layer of defense so you're not one-shot once your shield is broken

ATomiX96 · November 2018

Burtan wrote: »

Seems a bit strong but if stuff like cloak or shade has no stacking cost then streak certainly shouldn't.

im wondering how cloak still hasnt gotten the streak treatment, sure you can break the cloak (main argument of diehard nightblade one-tricks), but there is also counterplay to streak (gapclosers) also streak doesnt make all the dots you have on you not do damage.
Cloak is OP as *** especially in combination with shade you can get away from any group chasing you without any effort, should definitly get looked into after 3 years...

Valrien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

It is used in PvP. It is a very good escape.

I do not think OP's idea will fly though. Especially in PvP Sorcs have access to two shields that are moderately smaller. Even with being able to crit them they still get the players resist, which should include their inpen. OMG, a sorc needs to stack some inpen now.

They've always stacked Impen. Most Sorcs don't use Divines, it was just a meme

Maybe. Shield stacking sorcs certainly had little use for the trait until now.

No, it had a lot of use.

I don't know especially where this is coming from but please do not comment if you don't actually know about Sorc.

Many Sorcs still used Impen because it was very easy to break shields even pre-Murkmire, so Impen provided an additional layer of defense so you're not one-shot once your shield is broken

^ THIS

also now in current patch im running 3k impen on my sorc in CP campaign, put Bloodspawn and boundless storm on top of that and you are tanky af and your shields dont break from a single surprise attack anymore.

Pre "Shield-Nerf" (idk if its really a nerf), most of the sorcs would still run at least 1.4k crit resist to not immediatly drop when the shields go down, no matter how you got into that situation

Malamar1229 · November 2018

There arent any sorcs left anyway
They're dead Jim

ATomiX96 · November 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

There arent any sorcs left anyway
They're dead Jim

just wait a few weeks until people figure out that sorc is still good for overland PVP, people are just overly dramatic about the shield nerfs

Kova · November 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

There arent any sorcs left anyway
They're dead Jim

Not far off. We don't even attack each other open world anymore. Every solo sorc I've come across exchanges the old depressive light attack of support before we both move on to our respective hills to die on.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

idk wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

I kind of like this idea. Streak isn't used much except getting on building tops.

It is used in PvP. It is a very good escape.

I do not think OP's idea will fly though. Especially in PvP Sorcs have access to two shields that are moderately smaller. Even with being able to crit them they still get the players resist, which should include their inpen. OMG, a sorc needs to stack some inpen now.

They've always stacked Impen. Most Sorcs don't use Divines, it was just a meme

Maybe. Shield stacking sorcs certainly had little use for the trait until now.

I disagree here. I would say meta for you average sorc pre patch was 4 impen (small pieces) and 3 infused (big pieces), and now it's likely 7 impen. Even the best shield stacker pre patch cared about impen, as you could easily get one shot without it if your shields fell for more than a second, which happens anytime you fight multiple opponents.

Certainly it's more important now though. My current build I am working on has 3k crit resist and 20-23k for spell/phys resist.
Sorcs definitely had to make some hard decisions this patch in terms of trade-offs. This patch also removed at least one shield from a sorcs bars, as bar space is just too much of a premium, especially now that boundless is mandatory.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

There arent any sorcs left anyway
They're dead Jim

just wait a few weeks until people figure out that sorc is still good for overland PVP, people are just overly dramatic about the shield nerfs

Sorry for double:

I will fully concede that the shield nerfs werent as bad as I thought, but they are still a nerf. My biggest complaints right now on a sorc are Bar Space, Lack of Heals, and Mobility if I am being honest. Too many of a sorcs skills are one trick ponies, their heals dont crit for the most part and are tied to cast times/double bars, and streak is archaic in the current meta. It's clunky, it's the only skill with a stack cost, its TERRIBLE with uneven terrain, and is completely nullified by gap closers.

Things I would do in no particular order:

Give brief snare removal to either streak or boundless.

Give brief gap closer immunity to the ball of lighting morph of streak.

Remove stack cost of streak (increase base cost a bit if needed).

Figure out how to make streak work on uneven terrain.

Remove damage component from boundless (totally f'ing useless) and give it something else. Yes it already gives two major buffs, but they are the two most prevalent buffs in the game (NBs get them passively).

Remove cast time from Dark Conversion (obviously it would need to be toned down).

Allow Power/Crit surge to crit like basically every other heal in the game.

Make pets single bar. (again, would prob need to tone them down a bit).

Give frags back it stun.

End of rant.

ak_pvp · November 2018

Maybe, definitely not a bad idea.

Personally I'd increase its strength as a movement tool. Fix its bugs have momentum be kept, and give it a snare/root removal. Remove its stacking cost since sorcs lost a lot of sustain over a variety of changes.

Ruckly · November 2018

IMO magsorcs are boring. The shield stacking that was must have been boring. A GCD for a defensive bubble. Now it's more prebuff shields like a dk would prebuff spiked armor and dragon blood? But a DK can block and dodge off GCD which makes them more interesting. I believe the direction people should be pushing sorcs is towards something more interesting to play and not simply more powerful i.e. turret in place stacking shields and casting nukes. I imagine someone can throw up a spreadsheet that displays a correction for bolt escape if needed relative to bolt escape being op at release and the changes in magicka sustain and max pool.

A good argument for better bolt escape is how strong snipe is now. It is a one button spammable that barely drains stamina with long range. It dings sorcs pretty good especially in keep courtyards.

When I look at sorc the only interesting approach is chugging gradual health pots and using Balance to make shields stronger and Combat Prayer for healing/buffing others while bolt escaping around until you are set to nuke or your negate is ready.