Do people really "hate" Murkmire DLC?

Pyr0xyrecuprotite · November 2018

The Murkmire zone is actually pretty nice! As with any swamp though, there are (still) a few bugs. Sneaking skills are very helpful. I think it's a pity though that it is a mini-zone rather than the full-size zone originally envisioned.

I don't have any beef with the "balancing" changes in the base game - my toons are not finely tuned enough to notice the difference.

kadochka · November 2018

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Orjix

My Archein calls dibs on those Murkmire slaves first.

Why can't my Argonian look that hot?

Yeah... ;'(

ezio45 · November 2018

I hate the accompanying update. For the dlc itself, it might be fine but honestly im so pissed off at zos and eso i just dont even want to play.

Juponen · November 2018

I must admit I was a bit disappointed how "cheery" the swamp area is. A more dark, sinister and moody would have been in order, Murkmire is now just another Shadowfen. Something like this would do justice to "Black Marsh":

Pops_ND_Irish · November 2018

Maulclaw wrote: »

It's my first time subscribing for ESO+ and so I decided to experience Murkmire since it's going free later this month, and I'm actually having a lot of fun. When it comes to Argonians, I always felt like there wasn't much about them in comparison to other races. I mean, I've learned so many new things about their culture; their actual culture rather than the typical slave lives they go through. I also got to know more about their origins and the resemblance it shares with south American tribes. My performance has taken a hit due to just how heavy the new map is, but I find it such a joy to explore and the music is also quite nice. Maybe I've missed something that made people so mad?

You didnt miss anything. Whats makes them mad "? The sun comes up

Strychnos · November 2018

I love Murkmire! It’s my favorite DLC to date. The characters are compelling, the environment is unique, and the writing and music are great.

Update 20 on the other hand? Eh. I really hate what the dodge changes did to my NB tank, and the shield changes are a bummer.

I also hate all the uncreative people making jokes about argonian slaves. Slavery isn’t funny, come up with a better joke.

ezio45 · November 2018

Strychnos wrote: »

I love Murkmire! It’s my favorite DLC to date. The characters are compelling, the environment is unique, and the writing and music are great.

Update 20 on the other hand? Eh. I really hate what the dodge changes did to my NB tank, and the shield changes are a bummer.

I also hate all the uncreative people making jokes about argonian slaves. Slavery isn’t funny, come up with a better joke.

I dont say they are slaves, say they are boots...... or purses

Snipress · November 2018

I actually like the zone, though I've never been a fan of swamps. I think it's better than Shawdowfen lol. And it's good to learn more about Argonians, since I've never really paid much attention to them.

Aristocles22 · November 2018

The zone is mediocre, and the plot of the main questline is flimsy at best and is very low-stakes. While I can see a desire to tone it down a bit after the world-threatening crises of Morrowind, Clockwork City, and Summerset, this was too much in the other direction. The stakes don't involve the fate of Black Marsh or even Murkmire, only the souls of some long-dead Argonians and their ruined town. The villain is also a let-down. Instead of a daedric prince and his acolytes, we have a selfish Argonian female who wants to use the Remnant of Argon to connect her to the Hist... or something. It's not all too clear.

As for the new revelations about Argonian culture... they're not very impressive. They let their civilization fall into ruin because of some nihilistic ideas about Sithis. They don't care to learn about their own history, for the most part. They have loud frog-powered instruments. And they have arranged breeding rituals. Lots of breeding rituals, both as pairs and larger groups. And they have to let the frogs out of the instrument during mating season. I think there's a pattern here, but I won't beat the point to death. They also appear to sleep most of the day, if Xukas' comments about sleeping 14 hours a day is anything like most Argonians do it.

The quest with the Argonian female who wanted to be a mother was well-done, I guess.

Beardimus · November 2018

Maulclaw wrote: »

It's my first time subscribing for ESO+ and so I decided to experience Murkmire since it's going free later this month, and I'm actually having a lot of fun. When it comes to Argonians, I always felt like there wasn't much about them in comparison to other races. I mean, I've learned so many new things about their culture; their actual culture rather than the typical slave lives they go through. I also got to know more about their origins and the resemblance it shares with south American tribes. My performance has taken a hit due to just how heavy the new map is, but I find it such a joy to explore and the music is also quite nice. Maybe I've missed something that made people so mad?

Shadowfen was the only EP sons i hated, argonian voices annoy me too. Not interested in going to the zone at all and 'Encouraging' me by placing needed sets there doesn't help either, ill play where I enjoy and buy em later.

Also i tend to hate on DLC where a balance shift impacts me, they entwine the two so i do as well. Murkmire changes are a mess so my disinterest level is an all time high with the new content in general.

The only two DLC i think worth owning for content & longevity of play are imperial city & orsiniun

Aluneth · November 2018

Murkmire as a zone was great. The changes to skills and gameplay wasn't. It neutered my Warden frost tank, and that is the first thing that'll come to my mind when I think of this DLC.

gepe87 · November 2018

Meh. Just went to Lilmoth and went back to Clockwork City, much better dlc.

Gargath · November 2018

Murkmire is a free DLC so why anyone would hate it. The changes to weapon enchantments were simply awesome, anyone could easily overpower their characters in both PvE and PvP. There is nothing wrong that you wanted the power of killing spree

. And it was so simple for everyone to make it. Instead of adapting ang having fun, people were crying like babies, so devs restored the weapon status

.

I'd expect more hate for the paid Summerset with it's badly designed jewellery crafting system. For which people paid RL money, but it wasn't changed and lasts untill now.

Fodore · November 2018

I think it's cool but imo the quest line is so dull

RainfeatherUK · November 2018

Not an easy one to answer. Not a fan of the update personally but, in the interests of remaining as unbiased as possible, I think its fair to state the obvious. How you feel about the update is very much going to depend on gain vs loss - in your own mind.

Thats not something that anyone can really decide for you. They can only offer biased insights that may not be entirely accurate.

There is, in my opinion, a lot to be said for the complaints. I play an awful lot of different titles (an mmo player not an ES fan) and compared to many of those other titles; the polish this game has (or rather lack of it) is damn right insulting at times considering its age. Especially if you were to consider costs. I believe in part, it is down to the horrendous engine choice.

Imagine if you will - ESO's freedom and action style, if applied to the polish level of designs like FFXIV/WoW or even BDO. Whilst those other games also have flaws - its also easy to pick out bits they do well in equal measure. Why not wonder why ESO lacks so many of them, if it is doing so well financially. Is it dev laziness? Or as I've suggested - just the abysmal engine and lack of ability.

When Paul sage left, he suggested the later being the case. I'm inclined to agree.

Whilst ESO sticks to its strengths of repeated style with varying themes (especially present in the cash shop reskins sigh) its balancing is some of the worst I've seen. I could call it 'flip-flopping' over the history of this game and I don't think it would be far off. How many revisions does one game need? Who gets listened to? Core fans with experience or whiney instant grat snowflakes on forums? Look at the balance and ruined or 'now boring' class abilities and decide for yourself.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't keep an eye on the game; but for me its certainly not what it was in the Konkle/Sage days. Those times had their flaws. Things still needed to change. But I don't like the direction that change ended up taking very much personally. Nerfs may be needed but, once the train starts - where do you get off? I don't think I've seen so much functionality change and rewrite in a game. Again it may be needed. Maybe the base system wasn't as good as I like to suggest.

But in the end, shouldn't classes be fun, distinct, purposeful and have skills that feel powerful? Regardless of 'balance' what exactly feels epic about slotting your sorcerer shield anymore? Ah yes I forgot, the community are happy with the excuse 'just dont equip it, dont even use CP! Play Naked! omegalul'' and in the end, that community is probably what changed things the most in my eyes.

As I've said, make of patches what you will. Account for peoples bias. But is the game in a good state? For me, no its not. Its a game. Gameplay > All.

Humble_Adventurer · November 2018

I didn't like the lore retcon for Black Rose prison and City of Blackrose.

Before Murkmire DLC:
"The worst of the dungeons was constructed in the following era by Potentate Versidae-Shae [sic] on the ruins of the Lilmothiit community called Blackrose. The Rose, as it is called, is still the most secure and notorious prison of our own time, where Jagar Tharn's associates who were not executed await their final end." -Pocket Guide to the Empire, 3rd Edition

From TESO Murkmire DLC
"Once, in a single day, Pelladil Direnni built Blackrose Prison from the scattered rubble of Lilmothiit ruins by summoning an army of Stone Atronachs." -Once (a book from Murkmire DLC)

"When Imperial Potentate Versidue-Shaie wanted a distant dungeon to house the most feared criminal and political prisoners of the Second Empire, he ordered a penal institution built on the coast of Black Marsh; it was named Blackrose Prison after the ancient city a day's march to the north." (Murkmire Loading screen.)

Now suddenly in TESO Black prison is one day trip away from the city of Blackrose? When in reality Blackrose prison should be where city of Blackrose is. This retcon was made just because ZOS was too lazy to come up with a new trial or an other arena for this new zone and wanted desperately to include BRP with this new Zone. They could've easily saved it for later.

Also the quest for Blackrose prison was plant and boring. Expected some kind of plot twist or dramatic ending.

D0PAMINE · November 2018

The zone is fine, I like swamps and the art and stories are well done. I dislike glitching into walls and getting stuck in sprint in combat. And I also dislike Argonians who sing.

Aristocles22 · November 2018

Gargath wrote: »

Murkmire is a free DLC so why anyone would hate it. The changes to weapon enchantments were simply awesome, anyone could easily overpower their characters in both PvE and PvP. There is nothing wrong that you wanted the power of killing spree . And it was so simple for everyone to make it. Instead of adapting ang having fun, people were crying like babies, so devs restored the weapon status .

I'd expect more hate for the paid Summerset with it's badly designed jewellery crafting system. For which people paid RL money, but it wasn't changed and lasts untill now.

The fact that it is being given away for free in November speaks to its development. There are a TON of reused and reskinned assets in it, such as the reused cliff striders or the same Xanmeer architecture being copy-pasted in several dungeons. Plus, the dungeon design for Blackrose Prison is pretty simple for an arena, especially next to Maelstrom and Dragonstar. Not to mention, you fight the same bosses in Blackrose multiple times, in order to cut back on the animation and modeling budget no doubt.

While there are definitely some new and unique assets in Murkmire, the zone just felt lazy to me. Clockwork City at least had a huge amount of unique architecture, including the assets shared between it and the bits of Clockwork City seen in Morrowind (in the main quest and in the Halls of Fabrication Trial; it's confusing, I know.)

And the slime animation? It's a joke. Wizardry 8 does better slimes than Murkmire, and that game came out in 2001! Check it out online if you don't believe me.

Humble_Adventurer · November 2018

Other issue with lore are lore master archieve's how canon are they? 100% until ZOS or lore master decides otherwise?

Back in the old days (2015) Murkmire was supposed to be in the mid-west of Shadowfen and it was supposed to include city of Gideon and it was logical why it was part of the Pact.

Here are two old Loremaster's Archieves

2015
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/1241

Vicecanon Heita-Meen says, “Alas, egg-sibling, I myself am no scholar, having been raised as a house-slave by the Dres, and since the Liberation War I have been too busy with the affairs of today to pay attention to the affairs of ages gone by. However, I understand from the Vicecanon of Gideon that others are as curious as you, and Saxhleel researchers in Murkmire are delving into exactly this question. Perhaps when the roads to Murkmire open after the monsoons you will be able to journey there yourself and find out what they have learned. Until then, stay moist!”

2015
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25287

Sibyl Augustine Viliane says, “The Kothringi, though tragically extinct, have not been gone for long, and are well-remembered by their former neighbors. Many of the Lustrous Folk lived in the vicinity of Gideon in the region known as Murkmire. It is my understanding that, due to recent trade agreements, the road between Gideon and Leyawiin will soon be reopened, and traffic with the old Kothringi homelands will then resume. When that occurs, I will forward your interesting question to my Sister Sibyl in Gideon—though if your curiosity is so great, you might even choose to make the journey yourself."

2018
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55055

I've heard Vicecanon Heita-Meen speaking of Murkmire as being part of the Ebonheart Pact, together with Shadowfen and Thornmarsh. If this is true, why is this small patch of Black Marsh in the far south part of the Pact, while most of the region is not? - Saleel

Laziness

I've heard Vicecanon Heita-Meen speaking of Murkmire as being part of the Ebonheart Pact, together with Shadowfen and Thornmarsh. If this is true, why is this small patch of Black Marsh in the far south part of the Pact, while most of the region is not? - Saleel

Laziness

Some of these lore issues could've been avoided if ZOS only changed the name of Murkmire zone. There is a reason why ZOS is giving this DLC away for free as daily reward. I would buy 2015 Murkmire Adventure zone over this small plot of swamp any day. Gideon, probably 3 trials, no lore retcons, actual content imagine it!

I'm tired of small zones. I want zones which are as large as vanilla zones and Orsinium. I want zones which are as good as Orsnium. Orsium was so promising start PvE zone DLCs. TG had both endgame trial and skill tree. DB dropped the other. IC DLC had zone and group dungeons. Dungeon packs dropped the zone part. I cannot even imagine what Craglorn would cost nowadays.

zaria · November 2018

Maulclaw wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

The changes are controversial, but the zone is good. A nice little area for the Archein to conquer.

Also, there was a lot for Argonians lorewise even prior to Murkmire or ESO (Mostly metaphysical stuff, Murkmire DID indeed cover a lot on the culture of some tribes). You just had to dig deep for it...The race that lacks unique lore in my honest opinion are the Bretons.

Oh, the Bretons... right. Now that you mention it, I can't even think as to what real-life culture they're based on? Nords are based on the northern european countries, vikings and other norse mythology, Imperials are based on ancient european and roman cultures, Redguards are inspired by the middle east... but bretons? I have no clue.

Central Europe as in regarding architecture and furniture I think. Not so distinctive as many others

TheCyberDruid · November 2018

I don't hate Murkmire, but I feel pretty meh about it. Lilmoth and the 'lower' part is pretty great and I wish the whole zone could have been this kind of swamp. Sadly the 'upper' part is Shadowfen (or even a bit worse) again.

The main quest was okay, but it had a good amount of filler material that made the bit of story that was well written not stand out that much. I do appreciate that they didn't resort to bring some kind of deadric influence 'behind the scenes' in this time.

The rest of the quests... well, there are a few that are interesting. Most of them are fetch quests with a few lines thrown in. I like that they try to give a bit more insight into Argonian culture and way of living though. Overall it's an okay-ish DLC, but I couldn't care less for murky swamps, so there's that.

albesca · November 2018

I honestly haven't set foot in Murkmire yet, I just started the prologue quest and then left it for the witches festival event, but I noticed that the general update that came with the DLC introduced a bit of lag in pretty much every interaction with the world, mainly opening of containers but also combat.

Elsonso · November 2018

Juponen wrote: »

I must admit I was a bit disappointed how "cheery" the swamp area is. A more dark, sinister and moody would have been in order, Murkmire is now just another Shadowfen. Something like this would do justice to "Black Marsh":

It was known that Murkmire would not look like that, though. All of the places of Tamriel that can be DLC Zones are pretty much acceptable, habitable spaces, for the most part, and have been for hundreds or thousands of years. Each is going to be civilized, in its own way, and as technologically stagnant as anywhere else.

OrdoHermetica · November 2018

Maulclaw wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

The changes are controversial, but the zone is good. A nice little area for the Archein to conquer.

Also, there was a lot for Argonians lorewise even prior to Murkmire or ESO (Mostly metaphysical stuff, Murkmire DID indeed cover a lot on the culture of some tribes). You just had to dig deep for it...The race that lacks unique lore in my honest opinion are the Bretons.

Oh, the Bretons... right. Now that you mention it, I can't even think as to what real-life culture they're based on? Nords are based on the northern european countries, vikings and other norse mythology, Imperials are based on ancient european and roman cultures, Redguards are inspired by the middle east... but bretons? I have no clue.

The Bretons are based on the Bretons. As in, the Celtic tribes that settled in "Lesser Britain" or Brittany, which is part of modern-day France, and climate-wise is pretty similar to many of the High Rock zones we see in-game. Hence why you see Celtic knotwork and styles mixed in with French architecture, along with French chivalric traditions - knights in shining armor, magical swords, etc. Really, Bretons are the most direct analogues to a real-world culture in the game, with the only real significant change being the whole half-elf thing.

aquiella · November 2018

I think what is disappointing to me is all the nerfing and now I have to redo some of my builds. I think it is stupid to have changed the shields on MagSorc when it is possible to keep PVE and PVP as two separate entities. I mean if you don't want people to use certain things for PVP then make a separate tab and create better gear/skills specifically for that rather than nerf every single thing in the game.

Mureel · November 2018

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Claudman wrote: »

@Orjix

My Archein calls dibs on those Murkmire slaves first.

Why can't my Argonian look that hot?

Um because it's a lizard? *shrugs*

As for me: So far, not impressed with Murkmire.

Other than to get the furnishing, I do not understand the plant thing either.

Coatmagic · November 2018

I quite enjoyed it, though it was a tad short?

I was one of those sneaking around everywhere dismantling plants and moving house in RL when it dropped and still managed it to finish it in like 4 days

Had I not been sneaking everywhere it could have been done in an afternoon, probably, LOL.

PS: Yes, I took time to read all the books and loot containers (too much bait) and did a few of the runaround achievments.
As a PvE player, all there is left for me to do is the random encounter achievs, and sure I'll come across those eventually as I AM STILL sneaking around dismantling plants! I WILL FIND YOU!!

Mojmir · November 2018

We already have shadowfen, should have gone elsywer.

Cadbury · November 2018

It's alright. Basically a TG/DB tier area. It's the rest of this update that's disconcerting

Anrose · November 2018

Seems to be that people love Murkmire for the zone and story, but if you do ANYTHING outside of zone questing, this patch is demonstrably terrible.