Lookit all those Vouchers

Arunei · November 2018

Truly I have been blessed. For the low low cost of one Nirncrux plus a set that requires not only 8 Traits, but also having completed the Mages Guild quest line (or having access to an Attuned Crafting Station in the set), I can get a massive 17 vouchers!

I know Nirncrux isn't as expensive as it used to be, at least Fortified isn't, but the fact that it's asking for an 8-Trait set that requires access to the end area of a fairly lengthy quest line is what's killing me. I do have the ability to make this, it's just the principle of the thing. I don't even care that it's asking for a Nirnhoned thing, but a writ of only 17 vouchers should, imo, be asking for sets that don't have such high requirements.

<insert more ranting about how writs under 20 or so vouchers should also ask for Blue items rather than Purple>

At least they apparently sell for a decent price XD.

Royaji · November 2018

From my experience set has little effect on writ value unless it is one of the 9-traits. High value comes from rare styles, nirnhoned and quality. Considering your writ with any other trait would be 6-7 vouchers at best it is not the worst deal ever.

eso_nya · November 2018

amount of vouchers i _could_ get from jc writs i'll never do: 3078.

Masterwrits r truely amazing \o/

Arunei · November 2018

Royaji wrote: »

From my experience set has little effect on writ value unless it is one of the 9-traits. High value comes from rare styles, nirnhoned and quality. Considering your writ with any other trait would be 6-7 vouchers at best it is not the worst deal ever.

I would argue the whole Nirnhoned giving more Vouchers, considering that one I posted is Nirnhoned. Yeah it's Fortified, and yeah you don't have to research all the other eight Traits before you can research Nirnhoned now, but 17 Vouchers for Nirnhoned isn't 'high value' in this instance lol.

Rare styles also don't really seem to matter in my experience. I've gotten things for Sapriarch or BA that were worth less than 40 vouchers. Quality, too, can be a really random factor, as sometimes a Legendary master writ can be worth just a small number more Vouchers than an Epic one.

While yes, these factors CAN result in getting higher-value master writs, from what I've seen it can still be entirely too random. It would be nice if they would streamline reward vs cost, make writs under 20 vouchers only ask for Blue items rather than taking Epic mats, and actually factor in how many traits a set requires in terms of Voucher worth. A master writ that requires an 8 or 9-Trait set should most definitely be worth more Vouchers that only requires a 3 or 4-Trait set. Make the rewards truly reflect the amount of effort it takes to be able to make them, y'know?

FrancisCrawford · November 2018

10 more vouchers for the price of a fortified nirncrux? Yes please. Powered nirncrux, on the other hand ...

... and yes, blue mats should suffice.

yodased · November 2018

Arunei wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

From my experience set has little effect on writ value unless it is one of the 9-traits. High value comes from rare styles, nirnhoned and quality. Considering your writ with any other trait would be 6-7 vouchers at best it is not the worst deal ever.

I would argue the whole Nirnhoned giving more Vouchers, considering that one I posted is Nirnhoned. Yeah it's Fortified, and yeah you don't have to research all the other eight Traits before you can research Nirnhoned now, but 17 Vouchers for Nirnhoned isn't 'high value' in this instance lol.

Rare styles also don't really seem to matter in my experience. I've gotten things for Sapriarch or BA that were worth less than 40 vouchers. Quality, too, can be a really random factor, as sometimes a Legendary master writ can be worth just a small number more Vouchers than an Epic one.

While yes, these factors CAN result in getting higher-value master writs, from what I've seen it can still be entirely too random. It would be nice if they would streamline reward vs cost, make writs under 20 vouchers only ask for Blue items rather than taking Epic mats, and actually factor in how many traits a set requires in terms of Voucher worth. A master writ that requires an 8 or 9-Trait set should most definitely be worth more Vouchers that only requires a 3 or 4-Trait set. Make the rewards truly reflect the amount of effort it takes to be able to make them, y'know?

What effort? You clicked research and waited a month. That's literally the least amount of effort possible. less than 10seconds of "work"

If you want to reward effort, motif knowledge and difficulty of the station to get to is the right metric to go by.

The problem is they removed all difficulty in any sets by allowing us to attune sets. If you are in any sort of trade guild worth your time, you have all sets there already and you don't have to travel anywhere. Hell you don't even need to own the DLC of the motif required now.

The writ system may be skewed towards too little and the jewlery crafting writs really don't need to exist at their current point sure, but to say that research time = effort is just false.

Royaji · November 2018

Arunei wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

From my experience set has little effect on writ value unless it is one of the 9-traits. High value comes from rare styles, nirnhoned and quality. Considering your writ with any other trait would be 6-7 vouchers at best it is not the worst deal ever.

I would argue the whole Nirnhoned giving more Vouchers, considering that one I posted is Nirnhoned. Yeah it's Fortified, and yeah you don't have to research all the other eight Traits before you can research Nirnhoned now, but 17 Vouchers for Nirnhoned isn't 'high value' in this instance lol.

Rare styles also don't really seem to matter in my experience. I've gotten things for Sapriarch or BA that were worth less than 40 vouchers. Quality, too, can be a really random factor, as sometimes a Legendary master writ can be worth just a small number more Vouchers than an Epic one.

While yes, these factors CAN result in getting higher-value master writs, from what I've seen it can still be entirely too random. It would be nice if they would streamline reward vs cost, make writs under 20 vouchers only ask for Blue items rather than taking Epic mats, and actually factor in how many traits a set requires in terms of Voucher worth. A master writ that requires an 8 or 9-Trait set should most definitely be worth more Vouchers that only requires a 3 or 4-Trait set. Make the rewards truly reflect the amount of effort it takes to be able to make them, y'know?

Your average epic writ is 6-8 vouchers. The only reason this one is 17 is because of that nirncrux. The fact that you expect only blues below 20 vouchers has nothing to do with reality and is just wishful thinking.

tmbrinks · November 2018

There's a reason that one sells for more. It's easy, cheap, worth more vouchers, and doesn't need gold mats.

How many more "nerf" threads are we going to see for materials/vouchers/etc? the whining about every little thing is annoying

preevious · November 2018

It's in epic quality. 17 vouchers is well paid, actually. I'd totally do that one, it beat the 6-7 vouchers's writ by a enormous margin.

redspecter23 · November 2018

As others have mentioned, that is a great master writ. The material cost compared to the returns is an excellent ratio. Yes, you do need to put some (one time) effort into the traits, but most "master" crafters will have that done anyway.

Arunei · November 2018

tmbrinks wrote: »

There's a reason that one sells for more. It's easy, cheap, worth more vouchers, and doesn't need gold mats.

How many more "nerf" threads are we going to see for materials/vouchers/etc? the whining about every little thing is annoying

Where do you see anything about nerfs? I'm asking for changes, not making things weaker. People sure do have selective reading comprehension sometimes. Try going back and reading through my posts again, please. I'm asking for changes to make things more streamlined and for master writs to actually reward the time and effort put into being able to complete them.

Having smaller writs take only Blue mats also shouldn't be much of an issue. Do people forget that people do use their tempers for improving gear, as well as for crafting furniture? Why shouldn't smaller payout writs take less expensive mats and even out the number of tempers being consumed?

And yes, researching does take effort, regardless of what people might think. It's not just a matter of clicking and leaving it. To get the most out of the time it takes to research a higher number of traits, you need to have items to research on hand and be ready to put those things up for research as soon as your timer runs out, while keeping track of what it is you still have to do and what you need. Yes, there are addons for making this easier, but not everyone wants to use addons, and they shouldn't be forced to. It's not just "lol click", it does take some level of foresight and keeping up on. Plus there's simply the amount of time it takes to be able to craft higher-trait sets.

Not everyone is in a guild with access to Attuned sets, either, so using that as an excuse to not make beneficial positive changes is confusing. What, exactly, would be so bad about writs like this actually giving out a higher amount of vouchers to account for the effort that goes into being able to even be able to craft an 8-trait set? It's almost like people think just because more complicated writs could eventually be tweaked to actually have good payouts based on the entirety of the writ would be bad, but honestly if we got rid of a lot of the RNG that ZOS relies on like their life depends on it, rarer, higher-voucher writs would end up being rarer. They'd actually feel like rewards. And hopefully we wouldn't be getting a lot of writs for 5-7 vouchers eating all our Epic mats if they'd change them to take Blue mats instead.

tmbrinks · November 2018

Arunei wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

There's a reason that one sells for more. It's easy, cheap, worth more vouchers, and doesn't need gold mats.

How many more "nerf" threads are we going to see for materials/vouchers/etc? the whining about every little thing is annoying

Where do you see anything about nerfs? I'm asking for changes, not making things weaker. People sure do have selective reading comprehension sometimes. Try going back and reading through my posts again, please. I'm asking for changes to make things more streamlined and for master writs to actually reward the time and effort put into being able to complete them.

Having smaller writs take only Blue mats also shouldn't be much of an issue. Do people forget that people do use their tempers for improving gear, as well as for crafting furniture? Why shouldn't smaller payout writs take less expensive mats and even out the number of tempers being consumed?

And yes, researching does take effort, regardless of what people might think. It's not just a matter of clicking and leaving it. To get the most out of the time it takes to research a higher number of traits, you need to have items to research on hand and be ready to put those things up for research as soon as your timer runs out, while keeping track of what it is you still have to do and what you need. Yes, there are addons for making this easier, but not everyone wants to use addons, and they shouldn't be forced to. It's not just "lol click", it does take some level of foresight and keeping up on. Plus there's simply the amount of time it takes to be able to craft higher-trait sets.

Not everyone is in a guild with access to Attuned sets, either, so using that as an excuse to not make beneficial positive changes is confusing. What, exactly, would be so bad about writs like this actually giving out a higher amount of vouchers to account for the effort that goes into being able to even be able to craft an 8-trait set? It's almost like people think just because more complicated writs could eventually be tweaked to actually have good payouts based on the entirety of the writ would be bad, but honestly if we got rid of a lot of the RNG that ZOS relies on like their life depends on it, rarer, higher-voucher writs would end up being rarer. They'd actually feel like rewards. And hopefully we wouldn't be getting a lot of writs for 5-7 vouchers eating all our Epic mats if they'd change them to take Blue mats instead.

Sorry, I'll fully reply to you then. Master writs are MASTER writs, not the average writ that every person in the game can do. It literally is a one-time effort to get items to research so that you can be 8-trait crafter, and once you have done that one time, you can do those writs forever, at that level. Master writs that do require more traits, are worth more vouchers, ones that require a rarer style, do give you more vouchers, ones that require legendary, rather than epic, do give you more vouchers. I don't want even more master writs, that only use blue material (which as a cost basis, would only be worth 1 or 2 vouchers each). You get more vouchers the more you put into it.

The game tells you what traits you know... If you don't want to use add-ons, make a spreadsheet. People ask for people to make item for research for them in zone chat all the time, and when I see them, I make them the items. it's easy, it's incredibly cheap. The excuses you give for not having it done are laziness pure and simple.

And yes, you are asking for nerfs, you are asking them to nerf the amount of materials that it takes to do a master writ. The master writs that give less vouchers, do require less materials, they require only up to purple, rather than gold.

There is absolutely no problem with the master writs (other than jewelry) as they are right now. Your change would completely collapse the master writ voucher economy for all those people who have put in the time to research all 9 traits, who have taken the time to get all the motifs in the game, so that they can do more master writs, and get more vouchers, to get more things from the vendor so that they can sell them for gold, or furnish their guild halls, etc.

There is no shortage of purple improvement mats, and they're pretty darn cheap. You just want it to be easier. That is my definition of a nerf.

Feric51 · November 2018

I'll gladly take any and all epic, nirnhoned writs. Even the ones requiring potent nirncrux are generally in that 40-45 voucher range for a 10-12k potent? Sign me up! The high teen vouchers for writs requiring fortified nirncrux are darn near the cheaper gold per voucher master writs out there!!

As for number of traits required for the set and effect on price. I'll mirror what someone else said, I don't see much of a multiplier until it requests a 9-trait set.

Regarding the set requirement of finishing the mages' guild quest line. At least you didn't get Juliano's or, god forbid, one of the Imperial City crafting station locales. Those require the ownership of *gasp* an optional DLC! Just keep in mind that just because you don't belong to a guild with all the attunable stations doesn't mean you can't join one. Those of us doing master writs since Homestead didn't have the luxury of a collection of attunable stations until well into the process.

Also, looking at your writ, consider yourself lucky it is only calling for Nord style. It could have easily asked for Scalecaller, Buoyant Armiger, or Skinchanger which all have exponentially higher racial style material costs.

Lastly, if your character has been around long enough to receive master writs with regularity, having a stockpile of purple tempers, or the funds to buy some on demand, shouldn't be an issue. Unless, of course, you spent 50,000 crowns to buy research scrolls and avoided the grind.

tmbrinks · November 2018

First attunable stations I bought were the ones in IC, I loathed having to go to those to do master writs. Then I bought the FG and MG ones, then started on the others that were "far" away from the stations, such as Wrothgar. Recently had to go back into IC to attune my Jewelry Attunables, but now that's done.

I've found that the 8-trait ones are usually worth 7 or 8 vouchers (depending on the rarity of the motif as well, but there is a significant boost for 9-trait, especially when they call for it being legendary, or nirnhoned trait. I started a spreadsheet to try and figure out the "formula" for how many vouchers they would be worth, but I lost it in a HDD failure and haven't bothered to restart:

Few trends I did notice.
#of traits seems to affect voucher value from a 1.0x multiplier for 2-trait, up to about a 2.0x multiplier for 9-trait.
Fortfied nirn was worth a 2.0x multiplier
Potent nirn was worth a 4.0x multiplier
Style multpliers ranged from 1.0x for base game, up to about 2.0x for rare. (and what ZoS considers rare, might not mean they are rare)
Legendary was worth a 4.0x multiplier

Base was worth 5 vouchers, and the values would round down. At these numbers you could get up to a 64x multiplier, which would turn a 5 voucher into a 320 voucher one. So a Nord Ashen Grip Epic Defending Staff was worth about 5. Where a Militant Ordinator Eternal Hunt Legendary Nirnhoned Greatsword was worth 300+

These are all just approximate, just using anecdotal evidence from doing over 50,000 vouchers worth of master writs, but I feel it's pretty close.

vovus69 · November 2018

Rule of thumb for me when I am dealing with jewerly crafting writs:

- legendary - must be more than 400 for me even to consider keeping them. All less than 400 - to destroy
- epic - must be more than 100. If less - destroy it.

Cost basis now for the legendary - 4*80k + 3*40k = 440k, for epic = 3*40k = 120k. You can get the writ in clothing or blacksmithing for ~300g/voucher with total price ~500-700g/voucher. So, I will execute jewerly writs when legendary will have ~1000+ vouchers and epics - 250+. Before that - they all are trash.

-vovus

Starlock · November 2018

Whatever metrics they use to determine writ voucher values are a bit strange, @Arunei . I definitely felt the pain when the system first came out and can see where it disadvantages many players. The system rewards those who are pathologically addicted to this game and penalizes those who are not (though this is the case with many mechanics in this game, unfortunately). On the plus side, since the system has been out for a while now, it's relatively easy to buy reasonably-priced master crafting quests from guild stores that you're able to do. If you get one you can't do, you can sell it and get one you can do. It'll still take a long time to stock up and be able to afford anything that requires writ vouchers, though. It is what it is, I guess, and I don't see them changing it.

Jayne_Doe · November 2018

If any changes could be made, I'd suggest adding the same small chance increase we get from motif knowledge, etc. to the chance to get a higher value writ. Basically, the increased motif knowledge, trait knowledge, achievements - whatever affects our chances to get a writ in the first place - could increase our chances of obtaining a higher-value writ.

Now, this would be the same small bonus, so nothing huge. And, it certainly doesn't prevent a player who is still working on traits and motifs from getting high-value writs. It's just applying the same bonus we get to the chance of getting a writ to the change of getting a higher-value one.

As a master crafter, it gets a little annoying to have several weeks, months even, of nothing better than 17 voucher writs. I have gone months without anything higher than 40. I may still have months like that, due to the fickle nature of RNG, but it would be nice to have a slightly higher chance at a better writ as a master crafter.

MacMurroughTheFirst · November 2018

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

As a master crafter, it gets a little annoying to have several weeks, months even, of nothing better than 17 voucher writs. I have gone months without anything higher than 40. I may still have months like that, due to the fickle nature of RNG, but it would be nice to have a slightly higher chance at a better writ as a master crafter.

I agree with this. I wish there was a more palpable way to feel like a Master Crafter, especially when RNG is yanking your chain for a few days in a row and then you only get an alchemy or enchanting writ.

Malborn66 · December 2018

I am running 5 Characters through the Crafting writs every day (plus 5 doing Jewellery only) and I think that the lack of high value writs is RNG.

I am getting a few higher value writs (IE in 2 or 3 figures of chits) each week (more in Jewellery).

I also occasionally get writs for a Motif/item which I do not have and then keep them until I have sourced them.

I am just deleting my Jewellery writs as they are not doable under the current set up and do not pay back in writs even after the upgrade.

The big problem is the lamentably low return rate on Zircon which is always required for any writ.

ZOS would do better if they introduced writs requiring lower than Epic items at a sensible level of chit returns.

Malborn
PC EU

StrangeForce001 · December 2018

Zircon supply is not a big issue for me. I’m sitting close to 40 platings. I recommend farming vet dungeons. Any jewelry drops will always be purple for breakdown. You can even do this for pledges or during the monthly undaunted monster mask runs.