Any NB tanks out there or all Wardens/DKs?? (pve)

Silver_Strider · November 2018

Joxer61 wrote: »

@xI_The_Owl_Ix , let me ask you this though. If it truly is all what you say, and I do believe you btw....why do YOU play one? See that's what I am trying to get to the heart of. If they are so bad, no fun, suck balls, whatever.....then why are you playing one?

Can't speak for Owl but it could really be any number of reasons. Boredom of playing a DK tank, wanting more insight on the class's shortcomings as a Tank, just out of enjoying NB more than DK, maybe reminiscing old NB Tank builds that used to be legitimately fun and interesting.

I miss Sap Tanking and Dodge Tanking on my NB, I really do and despite my best effects to make suggestions on NB Tanks, ZOS just overlooks our plight and just focuses on our DPS, which just hurts NB Tanks and Healers each time they adjust stuff with DPS in mind.

VaxtinTheWolf · November 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

You're a DK. You arguably have the simplest way to restore the Stamina drain that skill has on a Tank through using your Magicka for instant chunk of Stamina return via passive mechanics. For a Nightblade you can use a stamina Potion, Heavy attack or wait 20 seconds to regain the full burst restore of Leeching Strikes. It is easier for a Sorcerer Tank to regain that stamina, And assuming enemies are dropping quickly, there is no stamina issue with a Templar Tank that uses Repentance.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Yes lets ignore the cost of 3,5k stamina. Most tanks have a 21k stamina pool. Thats 6 chains, if we ignore block cost/taunt cost/accidental double chains/etc.
Also NBs have bad Stamina sustain as well. Meanwhile DKs get stamina for using igneous and ultis.

Like I already said in another post. Try playing another class before you speak for us. Thanks.

Joxer61 · November 2018

Appreciate all the discussion guys, really do. Like I said, I wont give up, just chill for bit and jump on DK and see how I feel.
If I start heading down these roads "Boredom of playing a DK tank, wanting more insight on the class's shortcomings as a Tank, just out of enjoying NB more than DK, " then yea, probably jump back on the NB and keep going!

BejaProphet · November 2018

If you think my stamina sustain is because of igneous shields you are just speaking from ignorance about how i tank. I run with 565 magicka regen, and it takes 4K magicka to get 990 stamina from igneous. I get my stamina because I don’t perma block and therefore I can heavy attack as much as I please.

But it is clear I interrupted a pity party rather than a conversation.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

If you think my stamina sustain is because of igneous shields you are just speaking from ignorance about how i tank. I run with 565 magicka regen, and it takes 4K magicka to get 990 stamina from igneous. I get my stamina because I don’t perma block and therefore I can heavy attack as much as I please.

But it is clear I interrupted a pity party rather than a conversation.

No, you're doing this every thread. You come as someone who never played the class/role and try to give "advice" to us, the people who play the class.
It's quite frankly annoying.

BejaProphet · November 2018

I have made only two posts in this thread. I said I’d love to see a guy’s build. Other than that I followed this thread with interest but I specifically did not post for the sole reason that I don’t play a NB. I held my silence until you complained about a skill that is NOT night blade specific. And even then I did nothing but speak out in favor of that skill.

And you respond with something stupid, your point either being one of two things, either...

1.) I can’t speak about silver leash because I’m a DK? Arguably I can speak more intelligently than you because I can swap out both leash and chains on the SAME build and compare. Guess what, silver leash is easier because I can constantly get my resource back from heavy attacks.

Or possibly your point was...

2.) Silver leash only works for me because I am a DK? I don’t even know what I should say to that one.

So yeah, I’m left to conclude that this isn’t a real conversation and couple of you are just ruffled that anybody dared to do anything other than pout with you.

Liofa · November 2018

Depends on content. In trials, it's a lot easier to manage a NB tank because you don't really need a pull and/or AOE root ability. If you are doing dungeons, use Silver Leash and Ice Blockade for AOE snare. Leash is expensive but there are simple ways around it. Simply use Stamina Cost Reduction enchants on your jewelry to decrease cost of your Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, Silver Leash. This will also make your Leeching Strikes almost free, making it restore the amount of the original cost as an extra. Use 5/1/1 or 5/2 for even more stamina sustain through Medium Armour passives.

The main problem with this is, you shouldn't be blocking as much, only things you HAVE TO block. You have a ton of self heals as well as a NB tank so throw on Sentinel of Rkugamz as an extra sustain tool. It's basically a stronger Orb synergy every 15 seconds and provides the bonus to allies as well. You can also enchant your Frost Saff with Absorb Stamina, which will proc on blockade ticks. With Torug's and Infused, it restores 600 Stamina every 2 blockade ticks. It's basically a way to convert Magicka into Stamina.

Don't look at NB tank as bad because lack of chain/root abilities. They are bad because they lack support, just like sorcerer. Sustain is just a small problem you can easily work around with a bit of theorycrafting. As you see above, sustain is absolutely not an issue with all those easy to pull off strats. Also being an Argonian will help too.

If you want to tank as a NB and afraid of having no pull/root abilities, don't be. I listed a ton of ways that will allow you to run Leash without having any Stamina issues while having an access to a very potent 60% AOE snare which I prefer to Talons on my DK tank. Have fun.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

I have made only two posts in this thread. I said I’d love to see a guy’s build. Other than that I followed this thread with interest but I specifically did not post for the sole reason that I don’t play a NB. I held my silence until you complained about a skill that is NOT night blade specific. And even then I did nothing but speak out in favor of that skill.

And you respond with something stupid, your point either being one of two things, either...

1.) I can’t speak about silver leash because I’m a DK? Arguably I can speak more intelligently than you because I can swap out both leash and chains on the SAME build and compare. Guess what, silver leash is easier because I can constantly get my resource back from heavy attacks.

Or possibly your point was...

2.) Silver leash only works for me because I am a DK? I don’t even know what I should say to that one.

So yeah, I’m left to conclude that this isn’t a real conversation and couple of you are just ruffled that anybody dared to do anything other than pout with you.

Yikes. I was referring to other threads not necessarily this one.
And yes you cant speak about how silver leash plays on a NB because they play differently than a DK. And guess what ? Some other NB tank also said the same as me. *shocker*

This happens all the time. You come in think you're the authority and try to talk for us. Several people who actually PLAY the class/role disagree with you, you whine and leave. And then you appear on another thread. Its sad to be honest.
Just look at the tanking feedback thread. You openly said you DONT WANT OTHER CLASSES TO BE AS GOOD AS DKS. "Discussion", my ass. You're just here to play into your "DK must stay superior" fantasy.

Here is the point of all this. While I am for narrowing the gap, it would be horrifically unfair to make the other classes true equals to the DK when it comes to pure tanking.

- You.

So yes, narrow the gap and give other classes some of the non negotiable tools like they did with silver leash, but they absolutely should not make them completely equal to the DK.

- Also you.

MAKE.A.NIGHTBLADE.TANK.IF.YOU.WANT.TO.DISCUSS.

Edit: That was months ago. Instead of just making NB tank and trying it out you're still here trying to be the authority on a class/role you dont even play.
Like I said. Annoying.

BejaProphet · November 2018

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I have made only two posts in this thread. I said I’d love to see a guy’s build. Other than that I followed this thread with interest but I specifically did not post for the sole reason that I don’t play a NB. I held my silence until you complained about a skill that is NOT night blade specific. And even then I did nothing but speak out in favor of that skill.

And you respond with something stupid, your point either being one of two things, either...

1.) I can’t speak about silver leash because I’m a DK? Arguably I can speak more intelligently than you because I can swap out both leash and chains on the SAME build and compare. Guess what, silver leash is easier because I can constantly get my resource back from heavy attacks.

Or possibly your point was...

2.) Silver leash only works for me because I am a DK? I don’t even know what I should say to that one.

So yeah, I’m left to conclude that this isn’t a real conversation and couple of you are just ruffled that anybody dared to do anything other than pout with you.

Yikes. I was referring to other threads not necessarily this one.
And yes you cant speak about how silver leash plays on a NB because they play differently than a DK. And guess what ? Some other NB tank also said the same as me. *shocker*

This happens all the time. You come in think you're the authority and try to talk for us. Several people who actually PLAY the class/role disagree with you, you whine and leave. And then you appear on another thread. Its sad to be honest.
Just look at the tanking feedback thread. You openly said you DONT WANT OTHER CLASSES TO BE AS GOOD AS DKS. "Discussion", my ass. You're just here to play into your "DK must stay superior" fantasy.

Here is the point of all this. While I am for narrowing the gap, it would be horrifically unfair to make the other classes true equals to the DK when it comes to pure tanking.

- You.

So yes, narrow the gap and give other classes some of the non negotiable tools like they did with silver leash, but they absolutely should not make them completely equal to the DK.

- Also you.

MAKE.A.NIGHTBLADE.TANK.IF.YOU.WANT.TO.DISCUSS.

Edit: That was months ago. Instead of just making NB tank and trying it out you're still here trying to be the authority on a class/role you dont even play.
Like I said. Annoying.

Ah, there it is. So you acted like this towards me not because of anything here but rather because you are sore over another thread. At least it makes sense now.

I stand by my views expressed in the thread you mention. Unfortunately there is no way I’m going to rearticulate the reasoning behind those views all over again in this thread as it would completely derail it.

So I’ll simply let readers judge for themselves how things went in THIS thread.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

@BejaProphet , Im acting like that towards you because your motives are clear.
You dont even try to make a good argument for balance, you're here to "compare" how Silver Leash on a DK plays out with Silver Leash on a NB. But you cant, Apples and Oranges.
Saying

I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Trying to silence the complains us NB tanks have.

Im sorry but please go stick to your DK thread if you dont have anything to say except "lol you shouldnt complain I play on DK it works for me. HURR!"

vyrzeden · November 2018

I'm probably an oddball in that I tank on my stamNB (I also have a semi-retired MagNB tank, just prefer the stam playstyle on nightblade these days). You can easily duplicate some of the functionality expected of DKs.

- Leash which has been covered. On my tank, I run 2k stam regen and I barely notice the drain using leash. It's also very rare I need more than 3-4 leashes per encounter.
- Caltrops + Time Freeze does a very good job of soft CC for trash. Yes, the stun at the end of time freeze doesn't always take depending on how the fight has gone, but the double stacked movement penalties keeps things grouped nicely.

Leash wasn't nearly as useful on my MagNB where the drain was much more noticeable, but splitting the block cost between mag and stam (as I back barred frost staff) alleviated it somewhat. On the flip side, ult gen is harder on my stamNB cause there isn't anything very useful in the Siphoning tree as stam to use once every 4 seconds.

Nothing is perfect, but my advice is to play what you want/have fun with. Chasing the current meta class/race for anything can lead to being disappointed if the nerf bats comes your way. It's fair to say that stamNB really doesn't bring much to the table in terms of built in tanking ability compared to other options, but I have fun making it work.

BejaProphet · November 2018

Since you keep misrepresenting my views based on your angst over past threads, i’ll Give the sum of them here so as to accurately represent myself. Keep in mind I have no illusion that explaining this will in any way reconcile the two of us. A person doesn’t stay salty for months then suddenly listen to reason. This is for the benefit of other readers.

My view can be summarized in two thoughts.

1. From its foundation the classes were designed to be able to do anything but excell at something. This is just reality. DK was meant to excell at tanking. Templar healing. Nightblade and Sorc various DPS styles. You may hate this. It may have been a mistake, but it’s reality. Mag DKs as case in point. One slight shift and they are out of trial meta for months. We just weren’t as robustly designed for dps as a Nightblade even though we can do Dps. Wardens as late comers are the exception that proves the rule.

2. If you simply step in and equalise tanking, but you do nothing to revamp the entire class system, then you haven’t created balance, you have murdered the DK class by robbing us of our niche while leaving every other class their niche. Tanking might then be more balanced, but DKs will be the casualty.

So yes. I while I am a big advocate of giving needed tanking tools, I cheered for leash, for time stop, for mending, for the recent stamina changed to templars etc. Just last week in tank discords I advocated equalising leash and chains because it’s so important to tanking. I am FOR lifting the other classes up as tanks. But if you COMPLETELY equalise them without revisiting the core concepts of eso classes in their entirety, then you are killing the DK class.

I don’t personally think that opinion is all that radical.

So if somebody wants to spin that like I’m some DK supremacist, whatev.

But, heck. All I wanted to actually say is that silver leash is pretty good.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

Sorry but what?

Are you ignoring the time stam DK heavy attack rotation was preferred in trials? Or that mag DK can hit 50k+ since Summerset? Or that this patch stam wardens are better than stam nbs? Or that mag nbs got nerfed?
You are clearly forgetting the "no roles/classes - play whatever you want" motto of ESO as well.

You bring up the same point over and over again. If you want be superior how about getting good instead of having the better/easier class?

Healers shouldnt be = Templar
Tanks shouldnt be = Dks

For that to change the other classes need the tools. Im all for DKs getting an execute or whatever. But Im also for other classes getting a soft CC as example. Youre just being stupid by wanting to be best while being the easiest tank class to play.
(Meanwhile NBs have one of the harder DPS rotations and accel and their role as DD, and yet my heavy attack sorc hits for 34k by having the most chill rotation ever. Thats basically DK tanking. They are heavy attack sorcs but get 70k DPS instead, meanwhile NB tanks have the harder rotation and get 30k DPS..)
I would have 0 issues if DKs stayed the best tanks but only if they got harder to play.

I see mag DKs in trials/dungeons, more and more Templars now. Meanwhile still only DK/Warden tanks or Templar/Warden healers and here you are talking about niche. Joining every Tanking thread with the mindset that DKs need to have something that other tanks dont and I do agree every class should bring something unique. But there are tools needed for tanks thats not that hard to understand. But you still didnt even try a NB tank so why bother?

Im out.

BejaProphet · November 2018

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

If you want be superior how about getting good instead of having the better/easier class.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Also lets look at what you said.

Lets assume a mob of 5 melee ads (2 of them are "big" ads) and 3 ranged archers/mage.
Our tank has 20k mag and 21k stamina pools also 0 mag and stamina recovery and doesnt havy attack. HP doesnt matter in this scenario.

DK with silver leash:

Run into mob -> use talons (4050 magicka) -> Silver Leash all three ranged ads (3*3150 stamina) -> talons again (4050 mag) -> stamina taunt the 2 big ads (2*1701 stam) -> by now everything should be in one spot ready to be burned by the DDs

NB with silver leash:

Run into mob -> taunt every ad while keeping block up to not get 1 hit (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads while blocking (3*3150 stamina) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventaully chain them again?)

Or:
Use time freeze (3749 mag) -> Run into mob -> taunt every ad (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads (3*3150 stam) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventually chain them again?)
This method is saver (comperable with DK talons, still worse because of the CC immunity they get after time freeze) but does help because you can drop block for 3seconds while taunting / chaining the ads but it doesnt really help with the ranged ads.

DK stamina used (without block): 12852
DK magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 8100

NB scenario 1 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 1 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 0

NB scenario 2 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 2 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 3749

And youre saying this is comparable? The NB stamina consumption is 5k more than the DK one and thats without having to rechain the 3 ads that will eventually run away.

DK with silver leash and talons has 8148 stamina and 11900 magicka left.
NB with silver leash and time freeze has 3045 stamina and 16251 magicka left.

3k stamina left to block...

We shouldnt complain, right..because it works on your DK...

dovakiin5574 · November 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

@dovakiin5574 I’d love to see the build as well.

Quoting only one of you but I see many are requesting

I will post an "official" build guide later on but for those of you wanting to get started I'll put the basics here:

Ebon/Alkosh or Ebon/Torugs no question if you want to do Trials this is for any class. I was using Tava's off and on but it is kind of meh now. I did use Mighty Chudan when I was a much lower CP so I could reach Resistance Cap, but now I use a few different ones like Lord Warden, that one from Darkshade 2 who's name escapes me at the moment, Scourge Harvester is nice in vet Dungeons, rarely the one from Volenfell. Just depends on what I need at the time and how the other supports are in trials.

Sword and Board on both bars but you can sub in Lightning Staff on backbar if you *really* want to
Infused weapons, infused or reinforced or sturdy shields. I use infused.

Front bar:
Swallow Soul
Siphoning Attacks
Bone Surge
Pierce Armor
Dark Cloak
Aggressive Warhorn OR Spell Wall

Back bar:
Silver Leash
Mirage
Elusive Mist OR Deep Thoughts Or flex spot
Inner Rage
Refreshing Path
Bolstering Darkness

CP from my spreadsheets isn't updated (Yes, I use spreadsheets for builds) but here it is
Champion Points
Red 45 heavy armor, 32 hardy, 32 ele defender, 38 thick skinned, 47 spell shield, 31 iron clad, rest in bastion
Green 56 tenacity, 43 mooncalf, 43 arcanist, 28 shadow ward, rest in warlord
Blue 11 elfborn, 10 master at arms, 10 phys expert, 10 shattering, 95 mighty, 10 piercing, 11 precise, 11 thaumaturge, rest
in blessed

When you level up, you might want to slot in damage skills if you plan on leveling with sword and board.
Hope this helps

***Edit: Mine is a vampire, yours doesn't have to be
*****Edit: I put all points in Health because I use a redguard, you can put points in stam/mag as you need to.

vyrzeden · November 2018

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Also lets look at what you said.

Lets assume a mob of 5 melee ads (2 of them are "big" ads) and 3 ranged archers/mage.
Our tank has 20k mag and 21k stamina pools also 0 mag and stamina recovery and doesnt havy attack. HP doesnt matter in this scenario.

DK with silver leash:

Run into mob -> use talons (4050 magicka) -> Silver Leash all three ranged ads (3*3150 stamina) -> talons again (4050 mag) -> stamina taunt the 2 big ads (2*1701 stam) -> by now everything should be in one spot ready to be burned by the DDs

NB with silver leash:

Run into mob -> taunt every ad while keeping block up to not get 1 hit (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads while blocking (3*3150 stamina) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventaully chain them again?)

Or:
Use time freeze (3749 mag) -> Run into mob -> taunt every ad (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads (3*3150 stam) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventually chain them again?)
This method is saver (comperable with DK talons, still worse because of the CC immunity they get after time freeze) but does help because you can drop block for 3seconds while taunting / chaining the ads but it doesnt really help with the ranged ads.

DK stamina used (without block): 12852
DK magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 8100

NB scenario 1 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 1 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 0

NB scenario 2 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 2 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 3749

And youre saying this is compareable? The NB stamina consumption is 5k more than the DK one and thats without having to rechain the 3ads that will eventually run away.

DK with silver leash and talons has 8148 stamina and 11900 magicka left.
NB with silver leash and time freeze has 3045 stamina and 16251 magicka left.

3k stamina left to block...

We shouldnt complain, right..

I don't know what content this is referring to, but in a run of the mill trash group (as a stam NB), I don't taunt every mob, maybe 1 or 2. Instead I lead with caltrops+TF, everything is slowed to a crawl, taunt 1 or 2 priority adds, leash 2-4, at which point if DPS is on point, stuff is 3/4 of the way dead, if not more . And no ones recovery is 0 and for trash, I don't think I block even once. Instead I mix in a heavy attack or 2 as things wind down and I'm ready to go for the next one.

Can't imagine things are that different for a DK, just changing (maybe) leash for chains and caltrops+TF for talons.

Still....blocking for trash?

BejaProphet · November 2018

vyrzeden wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Also lets look at what you said.

Lets assume a mob of 5 melee ads (2 of them are "big" ads) and 3 ranged archers/mage.
Our tank has 20k mag and 21k stamina pools also 0 mag and stamina recovery and doesnt havy attack. HP doesnt matter in this scenario.

DK with silver leash:

Run into mob -> use talons (4050 magicka) -> Silver Leash all three ranged ads (3*3150 stamina) -> talons again (4050 mag) -> stamina taunt the 2 big ads (2*1701 stam) -> by now everything should be in one spot ready to be burned by the DDs

NB with silver leash:

Run into mob -> taunt every ad while keeping block up to not get 1 hit (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads while blocking (3*3150 stamina) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventaully chain them again?)

Or:
Use time freeze (3749 mag) -> Run into mob -> taunt every ad (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads (3*3150 stam) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventually chain them again?)
This method is saver (comperable with DK talons, still worse because of the CC immunity they get after time freeze) but does help because you can drop block for 3seconds while taunting / chaining the ads but it doesnt really help with the ranged ads.

DK stamina used (without block): 12852
DK magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 8100

NB scenario 1 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 1 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 0

NB scenario 2 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 2 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 3749

And youre saying this is compareable? The NB stamina consumption is 5k more than the DK one and thats without having to rechain the 3ads that will eventually run away.

DK with silver leash and talons has 8148 stamina and 11900 magicka left.
NB with silver leash and time freeze has 3045 stamina and 16251 magicka left.

3k stamina left to block...

We shouldnt complain, right..

I don't know what content this is referring to, but in a run of the mill trash group (as a stam NB), I don't taunt every mob, maybe 1 or 2. Instead I lead with caltrops+TF, everything is slowed to a crawl, taunt 1 or 2 priority adds, leash 2-4, at which point if DPS is on point, stuff is 3/4 of the way dead, if not more . And no ones recovery is 0 and for trash, I don't think I block even once. Instead I mix in a heavy attack or 2 as things wind down and I'm ready to go for the next one.

Can't imagine things are that different for a DK, just changing (maybe) leash for chains and caltrops+TF for talons.

Still....blocking for trash?

@vyrzeden it’s not different. That is how a competent DK does it as well.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

vyrzeden wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Also lets look at what you said.

Lets assume a mob of 5 melee ads (2 of them are "big" ads) and 3 ranged archers/mage.
Our tank has 20k mag and 21k stamina pools also 0 mag and stamina recovery and doesnt havy attack. HP doesnt matter in this scenario.

DK with silver leash:

Run into mob -> use talons (4050 magicka) -> Silver Leash all three ranged ads (3*3150 stamina) -> talons again (4050 mag) -> stamina taunt the 2 big ads (2*1701 stam) -> by now everything should be in one spot ready to be burned by the DDs

NB with silver leash:

Run into mob -> taunt every ad while keeping block up to not get 1 hit (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads while blocking (3*3150 stamina) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventaully chain them again?)

Or:
Use time freeze (3749 mag) -> Run into mob -> taunt every ad (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads (3*3150 stam) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventually chain them again?)
This method is saver (comperable with DK talons, still worse because of the CC immunity they get after time freeze) but does help because you can drop block for 3seconds while taunting / chaining the ads but it doesnt really help with the ranged ads.

DK stamina used (without block): 12852
DK magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 8100

NB scenario 1 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 1 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 0

NB scenario 2 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 2 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 3749

And youre saying this is compareable? The NB stamina consumption is 5k more than the DK one and thats without having to rechain the 3ads that will eventually run away.

DK with silver leash and talons has 8148 stamina and 11900 magicka left.
NB with silver leash and time freeze has 3045 stamina and 16251 magicka left.

3k stamina left to block...

We shouldnt complain, right..

I don't know what content this is referring to, but in a run of the mill trash group (as a stam NB), I don't taunt every mob, maybe 1 or 2. Instead I lead with caltrops+TF, everything is slowed to a crawl, taunt 1 or 2 priority adds, leash 2-4, at which point if DPS is on point, stuff is 3/4 of the way dead, if not more . And no ones recovery is 0 and for trash, I don't think I block even once. Instead I mix in a heavy attack or 2 as things wind down and I'm ready to go for the next one.

Can't imagine things are that different for a DK, just changing (maybe) leash for chains and caltrops+TF for talons.

Still....blocking for trash?

Had vMoS in mind thats the last thing I tanked. The ads there can one-shot even the tank. Having 0 recovery was for the example. Usually DKs stack magicka recovery since they can "convert" it into stamina and NBs stack health for HP % sealf heals and use meditate/heavy attacks.
Also again your build must be different if you can sustain caltrops every mob.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

BejaProphet wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Also lets look at what you said.

Lets assume a mob of 5 melee ads (2 of them are "big" ads) and 3 ranged archers/mage.
Our tank has 20k mag and 21k stamina pools also 0 mag and stamina recovery and doesnt havy attack. HP doesnt matter in this scenario.

DK with silver leash:

Run into mob -> use talons (4050 magicka) -> Silver Leash all three ranged ads (3*3150 stamina) -> talons again (4050 mag) -> stamina taunt the 2 big ads (2*1701 stam) -> by now everything should be in one spot ready to be burned by the DDs

NB with silver leash:

Run into mob -> taunt every ad while keeping block up to not get 1 hit (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads while blocking (3*3150 stamina) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventaully chain them again?)

Or:
Use time freeze (3749 mag) -> Run into mob -> taunt every ad (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads (3*3150 stam) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventually chain them again?)
This method is saver (comperable with DK talons, still worse because of the CC immunity they get after time freeze) but does help because you can drop block for 3seconds while taunting / chaining the ads but it doesnt really help with the ranged ads.

DK stamina used (without block): 12852
DK magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 8100

NB scenario 1 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 1 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 0

NB scenario 2 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 2 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 3749

And youre saying this is compareable? The NB stamina consumption is 5k more than the DK one and thats without having to rechain the 3ads that will eventually run away.

DK with silver leash and talons has 8148 stamina and 11900 magicka left.
NB with silver leash and time freeze has 3045 stamina and 16251 magicka left.

3k stamina left to block...

We shouldnt complain, right..

I don't know what content this is referring to, but in a run of the mill trash group (as a stam NB), I don't taunt every mob, maybe 1 or 2. Instead I lead with caltrops+TF, everything is slowed to a crawl, taunt 1 or 2 priority adds, leash 2-4, at which point if DPS is on point, stuff is 3/4 of the way dead, if not more . And no ones recovery is 0 and for trash, I don't think I block even once. Instead I mix in a heavy attack or 2 as things wind down and I'm ready to go for the next one.

Can't imagine things are that different for a DK, just changing (maybe) leash for chains and caltrops+TF for talons.

Still....blocking for trash?

@vyrzeden it’s not different. That is how a competent DK does it as well.

A competent DK uses caltrops instead of talons? Man I must have playing this game with wrong people. Everybody I play with usually uses talons. Whats wrong with those people I bet they stole their vAS+2 and vHoF skins! ZoS ban please, they dont use caltrops and stole skins!

jypcy · November 2018

@dovakiin5574 why use both ransack and mirage? Unless you’re not trying to have full uptime on mirage and only use it when necessary, I’d think that pierce armor and mirage would be better, or ransack and double take if you know you can rely on your healers for major breach uptime.

Edit: sorry if that came off as overly critical. Thanks for posting some detailed build info for those curious about tankblade! Just looking for clarification to advise potentially better morph combos, unless there’s a reason I’m missing

dovakiin5574 · November 2018

jypcy wrote: »

@dovakiin5574 why use both ransack and mirage? Unless you’re not trying to have full uptime on mirage and only use it when necessary, I’d think that pierce armor and mirage would be better, or ransack and double take if you know you can rely on your healers for major breach uptime.

Ransack was used before Summerset, I just copy pasted from my spreadsheet which isn't updated. I will edit my comment

BejaProphet · November 2018

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Also lets look at what you said.

Lets assume a mob of 5 melee ads (2 of them are "big" ads) and 3 ranged archers/mage.
Our tank has 20k mag and 21k stamina pools also 0 mag and stamina recovery and doesnt havy attack. HP doesnt matter in this scenario.

DK with silver leash:

Run into mob -> use talons (4050 magicka) -> Silver Leash all three ranged ads (3*3150 stamina) -> talons again (4050 mag) -> stamina taunt the 2 big ads (2*1701 stam) -> by now everything should be in one spot ready to be burned by the DDs

NB with silver leash:

Run into mob -> taunt every ad while keeping block up to not get 1 hit (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads while blocking (3*3150 stamina) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventaully chain them again?)

Or:
Use time freeze (3749 mag) -> Run into mob -> taunt every ad (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads (3*3150 stam) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventually chain them again?)
This method is saver (comperable with DK talons, still worse because of the CC immunity they get after time freeze) but does help because you can drop block for 3seconds while taunting / chaining the ads but it doesnt really help with the ranged ads.

DK stamina used (without block): 12852
DK magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 8100

NB scenario 1 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 1 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 0

NB scenario 2 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 2 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 3749

And youre saying this is compareable? The NB stamina consumption is 5k more than the DK one and thats without having to rechain the 3ads that will eventually run away.

DK with silver leash and talons has 8148 stamina and 11900 magicka left.
NB with silver leash and time freeze has 3045 stamina and 16251 magicka left.

3k stamina left to block...

We shouldnt complain, right..

I don't know what content this is referring to, but in a run of the mill trash group (as a stam NB), I don't taunt every mob, maybe 1 or 2. Instead I lead with caltrops+TF, everything is slowed to a crawl, taunt 1 or 2 priority adds, leash 2-4, at which point if DPS is on point, stuff is 3/4 of the way dead, if not more . And no ones recovery is 0 and for trash, I don't think I block even once. Instead I mix in a heavy attack or 2 as things wind down and I'm ready to go for the next one.

Can't imagine things are that different for a DK, just changing (maybe) leash for chains and caltrops+TF for talons.

Still....blocking for trash?

@vyrzeden it’s not different. That is how a competent DK does it as well.

A competent DK uses caltrops instead of talons? Man I must have playing this game with wrong people. Everybody I play with usually uses talons. Whats wrong with those people I bet they stole their vAS+2 and vHoF skins! ZoS ban please, they dont use caltrops and stole skins!

You are so eager to fight with me that you don’t listen. He said that he uses a combo of caltrops + TF and that he suspects that DK uses the same strategy with caltrops + talons. And I do.

And I use it in the exact strategy he described.

dovakiin5574 · November 2018

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

vyrzeden wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I’m a DK using silver leash for a number of weeks now. It’s working great for me. I don’t think non DK tanks can complain about that one anymore. Or at least they shouldn’t.

Also lets look at what you said.

Lets assume a mob of 5 melee ads (2 of them are "big" ads) and 3 ranged archers/mage.
Our tank has 20k mag and 21k stamina pools also 0 mag and stamina recovery and doesnt havy attack. HP doesnt matter in this scenario.

DK with silver leash:

Run into mob -> use talons (4050 magicka) -> Silver Leash all three ranged ads (3*3150 stamina) -> talons again (4050 mag) -> stamina taunt the 2 big ads (2*1701 stam) -> by now everything should be in one spot ready to be burned by the DDs

NB with silver leash:

Run into mob -> taunt every ad while keeping block up to not get 1 hit (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads while blocking (3*3150 stamina) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventaully chain them again?)

Or:
Use time freeze (3749 mag) -> Run into mob -> taunt every ad (5*1701 stam) -> silver leash the 3 ranged ads (3*3150 stam) -> watch the ranged ads run away again (eventually chain them again?)
This method is saver (comperable with DK talons, still worse because of the CC immunity they get after time freeze) but does help because you can drop block for 3seconds while taunting / chaining the ads but it doesnt really help with the ranged ads.

DK stamina used (without block): 12852
DK magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 8100

NB scenario 1 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 1 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 0

NB scenario 2 stamina used (without block and rechaining the ads): 17955
NB scenario 2 magicka used (without self heals and buffing): 3749

And youre saying this is compareable? The NB stamina consumption is 5k more than the DK one and thats without having to rechain the 3ads that will eventually run away.

DK with silver leash and talons has 8148 stamina and 11900 magicka left.
NB with silver leash and time freeze has 3045 stamina and 16251 magicka left.

3k stamina left to block...

We shouldnt complain, right..

I don't know what content this is referring to, but in a run of the mill trash group (as a stam NB), I don't taunt every mob, maybe 1 or 2. Instead I lead with caltrops+TF, everything is slowed to a crawl, taunt 1 or 2 priority adds, leash 2-4, at which point if DPS is on point, stuff is 3/4 of the way dead, if not more . And no ones recovery is 0 and for trash, I don't think I block even once. Instead I mix in a heavy attack or 2 as things wind down and I'm ready to go for the next one.

Can't imagine things are that different for a DK, just changing (maybe) leash for chains and caltrops+TF for talons.

Still....blocking for trash?

@vyrzeden it’s not different. That is how a competent DK does it as well.

A competent DK uses caltrops instead of talons? Man I must have playing this game with wrong people. Everybody I play with usually uses talons. Whats wrong with those people I bet they stole their vAS+2 and vHoF skins! ZoS ban please, they dont use caltrops and stole skins!

Ok let's not become toxic now. This is a GAME, and you can PLAY the GAME HOWEVER YOU want. So excuse me while I go do a 40k dps parse on a Dark Elf stamina DK without caltrops and a 38K parse on my Khajiit mag pet sorc and tank with a literal potato because I can.

xI_The_Owl_Ix · November 2018

Brb guys gonna level up my PvP rank to get them sweet caltrops for them sweet CCs, the ads will never see it coming!

On a serious note after just reading everything said here and nearly having a stroke Im ready to move on, its not worth wasting my time. This whole thread was a mistake.
Good luck at everybody tanking anything that isnt normal Fungal Grotto 1. I believe in you guys!

max_only · November 2018

I shelved my NB tank. I would love to see these builds that are still playable.
I use a Warden tank now and it’s a lot of fun.

dovakiin5574 · November 2018

@Joxer61 there will always be negative people who will tell you no you can't do stuff. I'm here to tell you yes you can. You can do anything you want in this game and make it work too. Feel free to inbox me with questions or referrals to great build resources.

dovakiin5574 · November 2018

max_only wrote: »

I shelved my NB tank. I would love to see these builds that are still playable.
I use a Warden tank now and it’s a lot of fun.

Upscroll a bit, I posted my build

jypcy · November 2018

To clear some things up about Owl’s example above:
-Discounting recovery and attribute pools is discounting some of a tankblade’s strengths, so is biased to make them appear worse off for that build. NBs have passive access to significant boosts to all three recovery attributes, max health, and max magicka. A DK can still achieve those same stats, but they need to reallocate resources from somewhere else to do so (as a point of fairness, dks do get passive spell resistance which nbs would need to reallocate resources from somewhere else to match).
-The strategies used by the DK and by the NB aren’t entirely comparable. Chains and leash apply soft taunts, so often you won’t need to immediately apply an actual taunt after using one of these skills. Yet, the nb does and the dk does not. Factor that in and stamina expenditures are the same, and mag expenditure is twice as high (or more) for the dk, who can get a better stack for it. You can decide whether that’s fair or not.

Now, I do believe that DKs in general have superior tanking utilities more easily available to them than any other class. But I don’t think any other class is nightmarish or impossible to tank with, having tanked dungeon and trial hms on all five classes. I’ll try to post one of my tankblade builds later tonight.