Single target dot effects no longer proc enchants, the cheese gets toned down - nice!

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

That was a fast reaction, WELL DONE!
d(^.^)

As for PvE, nothing changes. Endless Hail and Elemental Blockade still proc regularly.

Blockacke / mag DD's where never affected by any of those changes, the only effect it has is on DW stam DD's which will loose a bit of DMG, and may have to rethink the frontbar traits

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · November 2018

All the PvP dual wielders are crying... why? They didn't touch bleeds unless i missed something lol.

If you swapped to a Torug's setup on stam to cheese enhants on top of bleeds then you have my sympathy for the wasted mats.

This should never have made it to live though. ZOS had plenty of time to make the adjustments on PTS after they were told in like day 2 of PTS that this was going to be an issue. Still. Thank you for rectifying it.

John_Falstaff · November 2018

@Moonsorrow , you don't have any more AoE DoTs from DW line beside cloak (if cloak even procs it, I think there were some changes in in that prevented the proc), and cloak ticks every 3 seconds. So AoE DoTs are just not there in that case, and front bar enchants will only proc while on front bar. That will probably account for some drop in proc rate of front bar enchants, so PvE will feel the change too, if maybe to smaller extent. Well, at least nobody heeded to the hotheads' advice to half the potency of DW enchants; small favors.

Biro123 · November 2018

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

All the PvP dual wielders are crying... why? They didn't touch bleeds unless i missed something lol.

If you swapped to a Torug's setup on stam to cheese enhants on top of bleeds then you have my sympathy for the wasted mats.

This should never have made it to live though. ZOS had plenty of time to make the adjustments on PTS after they were told in like day 2 of PTS that this was going to be an issue. Still. Thank you for rectifying it.

I don't hear anyone crying? I think it's been pretty obvious for a while this was coming.

evoniee · November 2018

N O B U G F I X E S

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

as i know they were warned about this during pts. they should have rid of this before it goes live so there is nothing to thank them for

well its widely known that ZOS doenst listen to the PLayerbase when they report something to be broken on PTS, after after it went live, they nerf it into oblivion.

During PTS they may could have found a middleground but now Singletarget DOT of WEAPON sikills have been nerfed nearly useless. Weaponskills and light 7 heavyattacks are the only way to proc enchants, and zos just stripped all DOTs from that aspect...kinda too overkill IMO

Single target are useless now. Agreed. They ought to have just nerfed dual wields enchants and infused.

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

as i know they were warned about this during pts. they should have rid of this before it goes live so there is nothing to thank them for

well its widely known that ZOS doenst listen to the PLayerbase when they report something to be broken on PTS, after after it went live, they nerf it into oblivion.

During PTS they may could have found a middleground but now Singletarget DOT of WEAPON sikills have been nerfed nearly useless. Weaponskills and light 7 heavyattacks are the only way to proc enchants, and zos just stripped all DOTs from that aspect...kinda too overkill IMO

Single target are useless now. Agreed. They ought to have just nerfed dual wields enchants and infused.

well first test have been made by a stamblade freiond of mine with Absorb and Berserker frontbar

Before the nerf
Berserker 85% uptime, after the nerf its 75%...that nd up in a average Weapondmg loss of 40-45 WD.

The Absorbenchant lost 200 DPS, so it procced a little bit less, but you also have a little bit worse sustain maybe 10-20 stamreturn less than before.

reprosal · November 2018

The best fix they could have done for this is just adjust the damage enchants do via battle spirit for PVP.

Now PvE builds suffer and it totally oblivated the DW backbar tank option.

Thanks again PvP!

Swomp23 · November 2018

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

That was a fast reaction, WELL DONE!
d(^.^)

As for PvE, nothing changes. Endless Hail and Elemental Blockade still proc regularly.

This. So it does not affect things so much for pve, things are pretty much like before Murkmire. So can use aoe dots to proc enchants + weaving lights. So things are like they were on the normal pve rotation before Murkmire.

They are exactly the same than before Murkmire, with the exception of DW off-hand's proc that was buggy. They re-coded it to be sure the an enchant always proc if it's off cooldown.

I don't play enough stam DPS to know how big of a change it will make though.

Swomp23 · November 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

as i know they were warned about this during pts. they should have rid of this before it goes live so there is nothing to thank them for

well its widely known that ZOS doenst listen to the PLayerbase when they report something to be broken on PTS, after after it went live, they nerf it into oblivion.

During PTS they may could have found a middleground but now Singletarget DOT of WEAPON sikills have been nerfed nearly useless. Weaponskills and light 7 heavyattacks are the only way to proc enchants, and zos just stripped all DOTs from that aspect...kinda too overkill IMO

Single target are useless now. Agreed. They ought to have just nerfed dual wields enchants and infused.

well first test have been made by a stamblade freiond of mine with Absorb and Berserker frontbar

Before the nerf
Berserker 85% uptime, after the nerf its 75%...that nd up in a average Weapondmg loss of 40-45 WD.

The Absorbenchant lost 200 DPS, so it procced a little bit less, but you also have a little bit worse sustain maybe 10-20 stamreturn less than before.

Does your friend has the comparison from before Murkmire? Because before Murkmire, ST Dots didn't proc enchants either, and infused weapons were still BiS. It should be exactly the same. If not, they introduced a bug.

Swomp23 · November 2018

reprosal wrote: »

The best fix they could have done for this is just adjust the damage enchants do via battle spirit for PVP.

Now PvE builds suffer and it totally oblivated the DW backbar tank option.

Thanks again PvP!

I don't agree. This would have been a huge nerf to PvP. With how they did it now, you can still proc all your enchants on your frontbar if you keep attacking. It rewards active gameplay, instead of applying DoTs and turtling up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but DW backbar tanks never procced enchants from backbar before Murkmire. I don't see how this is a nerf to PVE, if we compare to before Murkmire.

reprosal · November 2018

Swomp23 wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

The best fix they could have done for this is just adjust the damage enchants do via battle spirit for PVP.

Now PvE builds suffer and it totally oblivated the DW backbar tank option.

Thanks again PvP!

I don't agree. This would have been a huge nerf to PvP. With how they did it now, you can still proc all your enchants on your frontbar if you keep attacking. It rewards active gameplay, instead of applying DoTs and turtling up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but DW backbar tanks never procced enchants from backbar before Murkmire. I don't see how this is a nerf to PVE, if we compare to before Murkmire.

Before the enchant change and major evasion change there was no DW backbar tank. Now there is nothing but blade cloak backbar to proc enchants. And only 1 will proc now per tick which is fine.. but yes. This is a huge nerf to that build and a small nerf to stam DPS.

I am not promoting DoT and turtle up. But if they simply reduced the damage, it still would have the same effect. You still want to pressure more with LA weaving.

Danksta · November 2018

John_1999 wrote: »

and another nerf to PVE because of PVP

So what? It's not like damage isn't already high enough in PvE and without even seeing this first hand it was clearly broken in PvP.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

PouletRico wrote: »

RIP DW tank build tho

It was stillborn. In easy dungeons you may use whatever you want, it doesn't matter, in hard dungeons you most probably be kicked after first death while dual-wielding. There are ways to justify use of other weapons on tank, but DW is completely useless for tanking, it doesn't have any cc, group healing, protection, interruption, it's pure dps weapon.. blade cloak is nothing on top of usual tank mitigation.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

Absolutely great change. If someone is standing in aoe it's his own problem, but things like poison arrow and destructive touch can't be dodged only purged and so everybody should slot purge? nonsense

SaintSubwayy · November 2018

Swomp23 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

as i know they were warned about this during pts. they should have rid of this before it goes live so there is nothing to thank them for

well its widely known that ZOS doenst listen to the PLayerbase when they report something to be broken on PTS, after after it went live, they nerf it into oblivion.

During PTS they may could have found a middleground but now Singletarget DOT of WEAPON sikills have been nerfed nearly useless. Weaponskills and light 7 heavyattacks are the only way to proc enchants, and zos just stripped all DOTs from that aspect...kinda too overkill IMO

Single target are useless now. Agreed. They ought to have just nerfed dual wields enchants and infused.

well first test have been made by a stamblade freiond of mine with Absorb and Berserker frontbar

Before the nerf
Berserker 85% uptime, after the nerf its 75%...that nd up in a average Weapondmg loss of 40-45 WD.

The Absorbenchant lost 200 DPS, so it procced a little bit less, but you also have a little bit worse sustain maybe 10-20 stamreturn less than before.

Does your friend has the comparison from before Murkmire? Because before Murkmire, ST Dots didn't proc enchants either, and infused weapons were still BiS. It should be exactly the same. If not, they introduced a bug.

Ofc ST Dots procced enchants, but only the mainhand enchant

The comparison i made was from 4.2.5 to 4.2.7, so ionly murkmire to this change

Berserker uptime -10% and absorb proc -200 dmg + -20 stam return on proc

Its not as bad as many ppl make it seem

Theignson · November 2018

PouletRico wrote: »

RIP DW tank build tho

DW tanky builds existed before this and will continue to do so. Google Krotha "The Punisher". I ran such a build before the enchant fiasco

ezikeo · November 2018

I think they forgot to include "Trap Beast" and its morps. Unless I am mistaken and it cannot proc enchants.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2018

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

as i know they were warned about this during pts. they should have rid of this before it goes live so there is nothing to thank them for

well its widely known that ZOS doenst listen to the PLayerbase when they report something to be broken on PTS, after after it went live, they nerf it into oblivion.

During PTS they may could have found a middleground but now Singletarget DOT of WEAPON sikills have been nerfed nearly useless. Weaponskills and light 7 heavyattacks are the only way to proc enchants, and zos just stripped all DOTs from that aspect...kinda too overkill IMO

Single target are useless now. Agreed. They ought to have just nerfed dual wields enchants and infused.

well first test have been made by a stamblade freiond of mine with Absorb and Berserker frontbar

Before the nerf
Berserker 85% uptime, after the nerf its 75%...that nd up in a average Weapondmg loss of 40-45 WD.

The Absorbenchant lost 200 DPS, so it procced a little bit less, but you also have a little bit worse sustain maybe 10-20 stamreturn less than before.

Does your friend has the comparison from before Murkmire? Because before Murkmire, ST Dots didn't proc enchants either, and infused weapons were still BiS. It should be exactly the same. If not, they introduced a bug.

Ofc ST Dots procced enchants, but only the mainhand enchant

The comparison i made was from 4.2.5 to 4.2.7, so ionly murkmire to this change

Berserker uptime -10% and absorb proc -200 dmg + -20 stam return on proc

Its not as bad as many ppl make it seem

umm no.the only dots that proc weapon enchants preMurkmire were cloak, endless and wall.

ezikeo wrote: »

I think they forgot to include "Trap Beast" and its morps. Unless I am mistaken and it cannot proc enchants.

trap is a not a weapon skill. you are mistaken,

Maulkin · November 2018

PouletRico wrote: »

RIP DW tank build tho

More like good fricking riddance.

Putting a heavy Torug set on, applying Slashes with axes and having more pressure (thanks to passive bleeds and oblivion and poison enchants) than a light or medium build without bleeds. So much skill.

But don't worry, you can still equip Seventh Legion and Fury and gain like +1.2k weapon damage in heavy armour.

reprosal · November 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

PouletRico wrote: »

RIP DW tank build tho

It was stillborn. In easy dungeons you may use whatever you want, it doesn't matter, in hard dungeons you most probably be kicked after first death while dual-wielding. There are ways to justify use of other weapons on tank, but DW is completely useless for tanking, it doesn't have any cc, group healing, protection, interruption, it's pure dps weapon.. blade cloak is nothing on top of usual tank mitigation.

Uhhh. DW was for backbar and with rending slashes and blade cloak uptime near 100% you can have max absorb magicka and crusher uptime while using absorb stam or weakening on front bar.

You don’t just run dual wield for that build...

Bashev · November 2018

I really like the last 2 patches. It starts to remind me to pre 1.6 where ZoS did a lot of balance adjustments in the incremental patches.

It is nice that you do not have to wait 3+ months for that kind of adjustments.

Ultravylence · November 2018

The community as a whole must really have low expectations for ZOS; to praise this change is like praising a golfer on his mulligan.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

reprosal wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

PouletRico wrote: »

RIP DW tank build tho

It was stillborn. In easy dungeons you may use whatever you want, it doesn't matter, in hard dungeons you most probably be kicked after first death while dual-wielding. There are ways to justify use of other weapons on tank, but DW is completely useless for tanking, it doesn't have any cc, group healing, protection, interruption, it's pure dps weapon.. blade cloak is nothing on top of usual tank mitigation.

Uhhh. DW was for backbar and with rending slashes and blade cloak uptime near 100% you can have max absorb magicka and crusher uptime while using absorb stam or weakening on front bar.

You don’t just run dual wield for that build...

If you mean PVP and a "tanky" build then yes, if you mean PVE..
I don't know, usually you don't have slots or stamina to spare to keep rending slashes and blade cloak on.. and you constantly taunt/maim with S&B anyway, so i'm not sure if gain from enchants pays off.. basically you need to spend extra 7k of stamina and 2 gcd each 15 seconds, to gain extra 3-4k magicka.. yes, you gain additional aoe mitigation too, but looks too complex.
I usually find myself struggling to find time windows for some additional HA to get stamina for blocking/dodging/breaking free and i run build with much stamina passive regen (i'm switching to ice staff bar to block with magicka while stamina regens and vice versa)

reprosal · November 2018

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

PouletRico wrote: »

RIP DW tank build tho

It was stillborn. In easy dungeons you may use whatever you want, it doesn't matter, in hard dungeons you most probably be kicked after first death while dual-wielding. There are ways to justify use of other weapons on tank, but DW is completely useless for tanking, it doesn't have any cc, group healing, protection, interruption, it's pure dps weapon.. blade cloak is nothing on top of usual tank mitigation.

Uhhh. DW was for backbar and with rending slashes and blade cloak uptime near 100% you can have max absorb magicka and crusher uptime while using absorb stam or weakening on front bar.

You don’t just run dual wield for that build...

If you mean PVP and a "tanky" build then yes, if you mean PVE..
I don't know, usually you don't have slots or stamina to spare to keep rending slashes and blade cloak on.. and you constantly taunt/maim with S&B anyway, so i'm not sure if gain from enchants pays off.. basically you need to spend extra 7k of stamina and 2 gcd each 15 seconds, to gain extra 3-4k magicka.. yes, you gain additional aoe mitigation too, but looks too complex.
I usually find myself struggling to find time windows for some additional HA to get stamina for blocking/dodging/breaking free and i run build with much stamina passive regen (i'm switching to ice staff bar to block with magicka while stamina regens and vice versa)

PvE only. And with how enchants were I could almost always have close to max magicka most the time. I built my warden tank for BRP and it was pretty great.

Using backbar DW enchant still can grant 200 mag/second using the glyph and letting deadly cloak proc it.

Sygil05 · November 2018

This thread is kind of ridiculous - I'm glad that ZOS rushed this fix out, but this was a known issue during PTS that they went ahead and implemented. Saying "Thanks" for rushing to fix a bug they introduced and then ignored seems a bit....unearned. If I punch you in the face twice, then don't punch you a third time, should I be thanked?

Really, this is just yet more evidence that their development and QA processes are completely a mess, and seems like a slap in the face to the customers that put time in to testing new features on the PTS. What I don't understand is how it seems like no steps are ever taken to prevent these types of problems from coming up in the future. I'm a developer, and we typically review what went wrong/right on projects after implementation so that we can learn for next time. With ZOS, we keep seeing the same ridiculous problems come up again and again.

Moonsorrow · November 2018

Sygil05 wrote: »

If I punch you in the face twice, then don't punch you a third time, should I be thanked?

Kinda, i`d KO you after your punches and thank you for giving me a chance for some random pvp.

warabi · November 2018

John_1999 wrote: »

and another nerf to PVE because of PVP

Most MMO devs just can't seem to understand they should separate the two. It's really quite pitiful.

PouletRico · November 2018

@MartiniDaniels I was talking about PvE builds, @reprosal explained what I was thinking, the DW backbar allowed tanks to have good enchants uptime. I use DK/Argo so sustain isn't really a problem, it was really good for crusher uptime, allowing my group to do a higher DPS.

MartiniDaniels · November 2018

PouletRico wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels I was talking about PvE builds, @reprosal explained what I was thinking, the DW backbar allowed tanks to have good enchants uptime. I use DK/Argo so sustain isn't really a problem, it was really good for crusher uptime, allowing my group to do a higher DPS.

Infused + torug will make same 100% uptime of crusher/weakening, just from your usual hits. I am all up for build diversity and I wanted to try DW on second bar myself when i didn't knew how mitigation works.. but i really don't see any unique benefits from it... 25% aoe is nothing really, weak aoes are not dangerous to tank and strong aoes need to be dodged by mechanics.