2H Weapons Viable?

ezikeo · November 2018

Does anyone know if there's a viable 2H build for endgame PvE, if so please share. Maybe 2h/2H or 2H/DW. Thanks in advanced.

Royaji · November 2018

There are viable 2h/bow builds. Not optimal but they work if you are not going for scores. Nothing without bow backbar though.

idk · November 2018

Royaji wrote: »

There are viable 2h/bow builds. Not optimal but they work if you are not going for scores. Nothing without bow backbar though.

Basically this. The two DoTs from the bow are basically required. Especially Poison Injection.

Psyonico · November 2018

I don't have my build available, but I have a 2h/bow stamina sorcerer that works pretty darn well

Vapirko · November 2018

Alcast has one if you pop over to his site, I think it’s for Stamima sorc.

DocFrost72 · November 2018

Viable for what? Vet dungeons? Vma? End game vet raids?

You can do all 3 with 2h and bow. There are solid dps "required" numbers and if you pass the number for the content you're looking to clear, it is viable. Shoot for 28k ish with no outside help on a 3 million hp skeleton, and you should be set for everything save very particular hm trial strategies.

Oh, and there's always someone going to call you selfish for running a non optimal build. If it isn't advice, just ignore it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

You can absolutely do it with a 2H. It just wont be as much DPS as if you go DW. I would suggest that if going for a 2H build that you either do the psijic line for Crushing Weapon, or you chose a class with a stamina spam skill. Relying on wrecking blow as a spammable is clunky, and not recommended IMO.

ezikeo · November 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can absolutely do it with a 2H. It just wont be as much DPS as if you go DW. I would suggest that if going for a 2H build that you either do the psijic line for Crushing Weapon, or you chose a class with a stamina spam skill. Relying on wrecking blow as a spammable is clunky, and not recommended IMO.

I was actually looking at that skill(Crushing Weapon), I was thinking Wrecking Blow>Crushing Weapon>Light attack>Reverse Slice for a single target rotation.
I am currently playing a stamina Redguard Nightblade. How much DPS do you think I can dish out? And what sets do you suggest I should use for this build?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

ezikeo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You can absolutely do it with a 2H. It just wont be as much DPS as if you go DW. I would suggest that if going for a 2H build that you either do the psijic line for Crushing Weapon, or you chose a class with a stamina spam skill. Relying on wrecking blow as a spammable is clunky, and not recommended IMO.

I was actually looking at that skill(Crushing Weapon), I was thinking Wrecking Blow>Crushing Weapon>Light attack>Reverse Slice for a single target rotation.
I am currently playing a stamina Redguard Nightblade. How much DPS do you think I can dish out? And what sets do you suggest I should use for this build?

If you are a nightblade, dont use crushing weapon or wrecking blow. Use surprise attack as your spammable. NB is certainly the best option for 2h/bow, because very little will change for you. I would think that with reasonable gear, going 2H and Bow, you should be able to break into the 40's on a target dummy, but admittedly I have not played a 2h/bow nightblade in a long time. 30k is certainly doable, and I am guessing the best of the best players would be north of 50.

Meta damage sets are Perfected Relequen and either Ravager or advancing yokeda, with Selene as a monster set. Whether you use 2h or DW, is really not going to impact your gear choice. Since 2H weapons count as 2 gear pieces, you can still run 5/5/2. A back bar VMA bow is optimal, but if not just make both your weapons the same set.

Your best crafted set is going to be hundings. Viable trial sets include Relequen, War Machine, and Vicious Ophidion. If you can I would start with hundings and one of those three. If trial sets are a no go, I would like to something like spriggans for some extra penetration or Ravager for more damage to pair with hundings (both can be purchased,). You want to avoid the crafted set Night Mothers Gaze, because you already get major fracture with Surprise Attack and from a tank in group content.

Kanar · November 2018

2h is the furthest behind DW that it has been in a year. However, yes it is still playable if you don't mind getting 5k less damage and using an extra skill slot vs dual wield.

ezikeo · November 2018

So there is no way to play a stam dps class without using a bow right?

rumple9 · November 2018

I use DW front bar VMA 2h back bar and it works well

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

ezikeo wrote: »

So there is no way to play a stam dps class without using a bow right?

Bow is just so much damage. Again, can you clear content with DW/2H? Sure, but you are going to lose a lot of DPS. Endless hail is one of the highest DPS skills in the game, and Poison Injection really helps your execute. It also make gameplay better IMO because there are going to be times as a melee character that you need to be ranged for one reason or another.

2H also is very redundant with NB. Think about it for a second:

Crit Rush: Gap Closer. NBs have ambush.
Cleave: AOE Damage Spam. NBs have power extraction, DW has an even better option, and arguably so does the bow line.
Wrecking Blow:ST spam and knockback. NBs have a better spammable in Surprise attack.
Executioner: Execute. NBs have Killers Blade.
Rally: Heal and Buff. You can get Major Brutality with potions, or Power extraction. All competitive DPS use weapon/spell power potions. The heal is nice, and the number one reason that 2H is more traditional Solo/PVP weapon.

Now look at DW (also allows for double enchants):
Steel Tornado: best AOE skill in the game (better than power extraction).
Rending Slashes: One of the best Stamina ST DOTs in the game.
Deadly Cloak: Great source of major evasion (stam dont get shields), and decent damage.
Shrouded daggers: Viable ranged Spammable with AOE component. Also source of major brutality.
Rapid Strikes (bloodthirst): Viable spammable (not as good as SA), but you also have a healing morph. Useful for solo/vma

And Bow:
Endless hail: Best stamina AOE DOT
Poison Injection: Best ranges ST stamina DOT, and execute to boot.
Acid Spray: Viable option for ranges AOE
Snipe: Option for a ranged spammable if the need arises.
Bombard: Ranged CC, useful in PVP.

Point is you can run whatever you want, but there are objective reasons why PVE DPS gravitate towards DW/Bow, and Solo/PVP are more likely to go 2H. Especially as a NB, a 2H just doesnt do a lot for you in PVE content.

ezikeo · November 2018

rumple9 wrote: »

I use DW front bar VMA 2h back bar and it works well

Can you please tell me what you are running, skills and set please?

Red_Feather · November 2018

I hate the word viable. It is used so often in place of many other words.

usmcjdking · November 2018

2H has a plethora of issues that keep is from keeping a reasonable pace with DW.

- Follow-up, it's only unique damage amp, is useless compared to DWs controlled fury/ruffian.
- Wrecking Blow animation can be a bit wonky and it's cast time is directly proportional to your lag.
- Can't split traits compared to DW which mean both Nirn & Infused are not anywhere near as strong.
- Doesn't get a second glyph.
- No 2H crit weapon.

Ragnarock41 · November 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

2H has a plethora of issues that keep is from keeping a reasonable pace with DW.

- Follow-up, it's only unique damage amp, is useless compared to DWs controlled fury/ruffian.
- Wrecking Blow animation can be a bit wonky and it's cast time is directly proportional to your lag.
- Can't split traits compared to DW which mean both Nirn & Infused are not anywhere near as strong.
- Doesn't get a second glyph.
- No 2H crit weapon.

I think making uppercut and/or heavy attacks a bit faster would be a nice change. I don't think they will ever address the second glyph issue and lack of practical use of 2 handers, but hey, we could use a bit faster heavies.

Sevn · November 2018

Ugh, why must folks pop in just to state the obvious? DW is better! Thanks captain obvious. Thanks to all the helpful players trying to actually help folks who want to use 2h instead of the all powerful cookie cutter DW playstyle. Some useful notes here.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · November 2018

I use two hander on all my Stam toons, sans my Bowden, simply because there is more active survivability then dual wield, mainly rally and brawler. Get around 30k DPS, which is more then enough for the content I do, pug dungeons. More dps then a full 80% of the DPS I am matched with too.

RavenSworn · November 2018

I think the question you want to ask is if it's optimal to use 2h. Viable is like... Passing your test but not excellent scores.

Is it viable to use 2h for content? Of course. Is it going to pull top leader board scores or fast times? Nope. What's optimal is viable, what's viable might not be optimal.

Ramber · November 2018

Yes its is, ive done over 30 parses with 2h you just need to have the right class and armor sets and MOSTLY a good rotation.

ezikeo · November 2018

Honestly I'm just trying to figure out a decent stamblade build for endgame pve content, where I don't have to use a bow and where I don't have to watch 4+ bleeds/dots - I just want to wack stuff in melee and not micro manage.

Moonsorrow · November 2018

Here is my SUPERFUN SMASHER build, a 2h/2h setup + "viable" damage for sure (not for Vet trial score runs though.. you can enter there with that setup and when people starts to whine about your non-meta setup, you just say the legendary: "duel me you scrub" and they are silenced)

2p Balorgh + 5p Automaton (can use Hundings depending on class/ulti choice if its not Physical damage)
+ 3p agility jewelry + Master`s 2h + Asylum 2h

Balorgh has nice synergy with Asylum 2h giving ultimates up FAST, on trash fights you can almost spam ultimates, can start using it on bosses when 50% so ultis up then fast too. Master 2h does crazy cleave damage on mobs and bosses with mob spawns. Asylum 2h Precise (for more crits on executes, obviously use 2h execute on this bar), Master`s 2h Nirnhoned. Put Cleave on this bar, obviously. You did not want lots of dots/micromanaging, but use atleast Caltrops, its a lot of damage. Put your buffs and class spammable (Surprise attack) so that you get a smooth rotation/ani cancel that works for you. Mundus: Thief (or Lover, depending on cp and group/content)

You will be surprised how fun and brutal that setup can be.

Ask if need more details on the setup and if that sounds fun for you.

Note to the people perhaps saying: "2h/2h is not viable booo.." yes yes, i know, but its fun and VIABLE enough for all except vet trial score runs.

And more damage would be from: 2H/bow back bar (maelstrom bow), its actually very good build that same but using Maelstrom bow and dropping Masters 2h for it. Asylum 2h, Balorgh, Maelstrom bow = good fun times too for the bow lovers. But op wants a build without bow, so let op have the fun their own way.

Royaji · November 2018

ezikeo wrote: »

Honestly I'm just trying to figure out a decent stamblade build for endgame pve content, where I don't have to use a bow and where I don't have to watch 4+ bleeds/dots - I just want to wack stuff in melee and not micro manage.

I'm sorry to say it but you are pretty much out of luck. Builds like you describe work for PvP, overland, normals and some veteran dingeons (but you should probably find a group that is ok with you running that setup to save some frustration for both sides) but they are not endgame builds. DoTs are necessary since there is a significant DPS difference between layering several dots and using spammable while the tick compared to just mashing your hardest hitting abilities one by one. And bow happens to be the king of DoTs.

This is just the way the game works. No getting around it.

ezikeo · November 2018

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Here is my SUPERFUN SMASHER build, a 2h/2h setup + "viable" damage for sure (not for Vet trial score runs though.. you can enter there with that setup and when people starts to whine about your non-meta setup, you just say the legendary: "duel me you scrub" and they are silenced)

2p Balorgh + 5p Automaton (can use Hundings depending on class/ulti choice if its not Physical damage)
+ 3p agility jewelry + Master`s 2h + Asylum 2h

Balorgh has nice synergy with Asylum 2h giving ultimates up FAST, on trash fights you can almost spam ultimates, can start using it on bosses when 50% so ultis up then fast too. Master 2h does crazy cleave damage on mobs and bosses with mob spawns. Asylum 2h Precise (for more crits on executes, obviously use 2h execute on this bar), Master`s 2h Nirnhoned. Put Cleave on this bar, obviously. You did not want lots of dots/micromanaging, but use atleast Caltrops, its a lot of damage. Put your buffs and class spammable (Surprise attack) so that you get a smooth rotation/ani cancel that works for you. Mundus: Thief (or Lover, depending on cp and group/content)

You will be surprised how fun and brutal that setup can be. Ask if need more details on the setup and if that sounds fun for you.

Note to the people perhaps saying: "2h/2h is not viable booo.." yes yes, i know, but its fun and VIABLE enough for all except vet trial score runs.

And more damage would be from: 2H/bow back bar (maelstrom bow), its actually very good build that same but using Maelstrom bow and dropping Masters 2h for it. Asylum 2h, Balorgh, Maelstrom bow = good fun times too for the bow lovers. But op wants a build without bow, so let op have the fun their own way.

I like this build, do you think using the 2H ultimate "Onslaught" with 2p Balorgh would be good? I could potentially have a 100% uptime on Balorgh buff (300 weapon & spell damage) if I manage to kill an add with Onslaught, which would refresh it.

Kanar · November 2018

ezikeo wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Here is my SUPERFUN SMASHER build, a 2h/2h setup + "viable" damage for sure (not for Vet trial score runs though.. you can enter there with that setup and when people starts to whine about your non-meta setup, you just say the legendary: "duel me you scrub" and they are silenced)

2p Balorgh + 5p Automaton (can use Hundings depending on class/ulti choice if its not Physical damage)
+ 3p agility jewelry + Master`s 2h + Asylum 2h

Balorgh has nice synergy with Asylum 2h giving ultimates up FAST, on trash fights you can almost spam ultimates, can start using it on bosses when 50% so ultis up then fast too. Master 2h does crazy cleave damage on mobs and bosses with mob spawns. Asylum 2h Precise (for more crits on executes, obviously use 2h execute on this bar), Master`s 2h Nirnhoned. Put Cleave on this bar, obviously. You did not want lots of dots/micromanaging, but use atleast Caltrops, its a lot of damage. Put your buffs and class spammable (Surprise attack) so that you get a smooth rotation/ani cancel that works for you. Mundus: Thief (or Lover, depending on cp and group/content)

You will be surprised how fun and brutal that setup can be. Ask if need more details on the setup and if that sounds fun for you.

Note to the people perhaps saying: "2h/2h is not viable booo.." yes yes, i know, but its fun and VIABLE enough for all except vet trial score runs.

And more damage would be from: 2H/bow back bar (maelstrom bow), its actually very good build that same but using Maelstrom bow and dropping Masters 2h for it. Asylum 2h, Balorgh, Maelstrom bow = good fun times too for the bow lovers. But op wants a build without bow, so let op have the fun their own way.

I like this build, do you think using the 2H ultimate "Onslaught" with 2p Balorgh would be good? I could potentially have a 100% uptime on Balorgh buff (300 weapon & spell damage) if I manage to kill an add with Onslaught, which would refresh it.

Onslaught is great in theory but quite difficult to effectively abuse like that.

JakobESO · November 2018

ezikeo wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Here is my SUPERFUN SMASHER build, a 2h/2h setup + "viable" damage for sure (not for Vet trial score runs though.. you can enter there with that setup and when people starts to whine about your non-meta setup, you just say the legendary: "duel me you scrub" and they are silenced)

2p Balorgh + 5p Automaton (can use Hundings depending on class/ulti choice if its not Physical damage)
+ 3p agility jewelry + Master`s 2h + Asylum 2h

Balorgh has nice synergy with Asylum 2h giving ultimates up FAST, on trash fights you can almost spam ultimates, can start using it on bosses when 50% so ultis up then fast too. Master 2h does crazy cleave damage on mobs and bosses with mob spawns. Asylum 2h Precise (for more crits on executes, obviously use 2h execute on this bar), Master`s 2h Nirnhoned. Put Cleave on this bar, obviously. You did not want lots of dots/micromanaging, but use atleast Caltrops, its a lot of damage. Put your buffs and class spammable (Surprise attack) so that you get a smooth rotation/ani cancel that works for you. Mundus: Thief (or Lover, depending on cp and group/content)

You will be surprised how fun and brutal that setup can be. Ask if need more details on the setup and if that sounds fun for you.

Note to the people perhaps saying: "2h/2h is not viable booo.." yes yes, i know, but its fun and VIABLE enough for all except vet trial score runs.

And more damage would be from: 2H/bow back bar (maelstrom bow), its actually very good build that same but using Maelstrom bow and dropping Masters 2h for it. Asylum 2h, Balorgh, Maelstrom bow = good fun times too for the bow lovers. But op wants a build without bow, so let op have the fun their own way.

I like this build, do you think using the 2H ultimate "Onslaught" with 2p Balorgh would be good? I could potentially have a 100% uptime on Balorgh buff (300 weapon & spell damage) if I manage to kill an add with Onslaught, which would refresh it.

I've tried Barlorgh with Onslaught and it's just too damn clunky.

My 2h build is very similar to Moonsorrow's. It's very unconventional but so, so fun. I call it "Slayer." The more you kill, the stronger it is.

5p Dead-Water + 5p War Machine + 2h Asylum + vMA Bow
Abilities to compliment: Soul Harvest front bar, Shooting Star back bar, Reverse Slice.

You're probably thinking: WTF? Yeah, I know. But trust me, this *** is a machine.

Reverse Slice trash kill = 5 + 10 + 14 ultimate. That's nearly 30 ultimate a kill. Generating ultimate for Major Slayer is the goal. It's extremely easy to kill a trash pack and generate 200 ultimate while demolishing the trash for non stop Shooting Stars. So, while Shooting Star is generating ultimate (12 per mob hit), you're reverse slicing (up to 14 ultimate gain per hit) while killing (Dead-Water +5 ultimate) and harvesting souls (10 ultimate per kill). Needless to say, Major Slayer has an extreme up time on trash.

I've also tried: 2p Balorgh, 5p Dead-Water, 5p War Machine. The ultimate generation wasn't quite as good. I'm still experimenting with it though.

Single target? Ignore Shooting Star and use Soul Harvest for +20% damage and Major Slayer. The last 25% Boss's health should have constant Major Slayer up for you and your pals.

The build is extremely effective and fun, at least for me.

ezikeo · November 2018

JakobESO wrote: »

ezikeo wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Here is my SUPERFUN SMASHER build, a 2h/2h setup + "viable" damage for sure (not for Vet trial score runs though.. you can enter there with that setup and when people starts to whine about your non-meta setup, you just say the legendary: "duel me you scrub" and they are silenced)

2p Balorgh + 5p Automaton (can use Hundings depending on class/ulti choice if its not Physical damage)
+ 3p agility jewelry + Master`s 2h + Asylum 2h

Balorgh has nice synergy with Asylum 2h giving ultimates up FAST, on trash fights you can almost spam ultimates, can start using it on bosses when 50% so ultis up then fast too. Master 2h does crazy cleave damage on mobs and bosses with mob spawns. Asylum 2h Precise (for more crits on executes, obviously use 2h execute on this bar), Master`s 2h Nirnhoned. Put Cleave on this bar, obviously. You did not want lots of dots/micromanaging, but use atleast Caltrops, its a lot of damage. Put your buffs and class spammable (Surprise attack) so that you get a smooth rotation/ani cancel that works for you. Mundus: Thief (or Lover, depending on cp and group/content)

You will be surprised how fun and brutal that setup can be. Ask if need more details on the setup and if that sounds fun for you.

Note to the people perhaps saying: "2h/2h is not viable booo.." yes yes, i know, but its fun and VIABLE enough for all except vet trial score runs.

And more damage would be from: 2H/bow back bar (maelstrom bow), its actually very good build that same but using Maelstrom bow and dropping Masters 2h for it. Asylum 2h, Balorgh, Maelstrom bow = good fun times too for the bow lovers. But op wants a build without bow, so let op have the fun their own way.

I like this build, do you think using the 2H ultimate "Onslaught" with 2p Balorgh would be good? I could potentially have a 100% uptime on Balorgh buff (300 weapon & spell damage) if I manage to kill an add with Onslaught, which would refresh it.

I've tried Barlorgh with Onslaught and it's just too damn clunky.

My 2h build is very similar to Moonsorrow's. It's very unconventional but so, so fun. I call it "Slayer." The more you kill, the stronger it is.

5p Dead-Water + 5p War Machine + 2h Asylum + vMA Bow
Abilities to compliment: Soul Harvest front bar, Shooting Star back bar, Reverse Slice.

You're probably thinking: WTF? Yeah, I know. But trust me, this *** is a machine.

Reverse Slice trash kill = 5 + 10 + 14 ultimate. That's nearly 30 ultimate a kill. Generating ultimate for Major Slayer is the goal. It's extremely easy to kill a trash pack and generate 200 ultimate while demolishing the trash for non stop Shooting Stars. So, while Shooting Star is generating ultimate (12 per mob hit), you're reverse slicing (up to 14 ultimate gain per hit) while killing (Dead-Water +5 ultimate) and harvesting souls (10 ultimate per kill). Needless to say, Major Slayer has an extreme up time on trash.

I've also tried: 2p Balorgh, 5p Dead-Water, 5p War Machine. The ultimate generation wasn't quite as good. I'm still experimenting with it though.

Single target? Ignore Shooting Star and use Soul Harvest for +20% damage and Major Slayer. The last 25% Boss's health should have constant Major Slayer up for you and your pals.

The build is extremely effective and fun, at least for me.

Oh man that looks fun also!

Itacira · November 2018

So guys ! I've read everything here and it's super interesting and since we're on the topic of 2H unconventional builds, imma use this opportunity to ask : does anyone here have a build recommendation for a 2H/BOW or 2H/2H or 2H/DW (whichever) stam sorc WITH A CLANNFEAR (you'll pry my clannfear out of my cold dead fingers).

I'm not afraid of hybrid builds. If you tell me S&B w/ medium armor is the way to go and it works, hell yeah I'll do it. It's not about being meta, it's about doing the best with the limits I'm givisng myself x) I'm not interested in veteran, if I can do my normal daily dungeon run with it I'm good.

ezikeo · November 2018

Itacira wrote: »

So guys ! I've read everything here and it's super interesting and since we're on the topic of 2H unconventional builds, imma use this opportunity to ask : does anyone here have a build recommendation for a 2H/BOW or 2H/2H or 2H/DW (whichever) stam sorc WITH A CLANNFEAR (you'll pry my clannfear out of my cold dead fingers).

I'm not afraid of hybrid builds. If you tell me S&B w/ medium armor is the way to go and it works, hell yeah I'll do it. It's not about being meta, it's about doing the best with the limits I'm givisng myself x) I'm not interested in veteran, if I can do my normal daily dungeon run with it I'm good.

You should check out the set Hunt Leader,

Hunt Leader
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) When your pets attack an enemy you have also attacked in the last 10 seconds, you heal for 2433 Health and restore 1216 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Khivas_Carrick · November 2018

I think the only two classes in the game that can make 2H work like they actually need it are Templars and Dragonknights tbh

I mean DW will still be better but you can get near optimal using a 2H, or at the very least better than any pugs you'll encounter because hot damn I'm using old ass Hunding's and Spriggan's gear and I run everything short of new trials and I pull 30k to 35k dps and rock *** just fine as a 2H Stamplar.

You do you kid, ZoS will eventually get their heads out of their asses and make 2H as optimal as DW for PvE