Finding it increasingly hard to find people to do DLC dungeons
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Marcusito✭✭✭I joined a guild called Addicted to Achievements on a whim because achievements are something I enjoy doing. They just formed and I was hoping to find a few people to do Vet no death runs with. This guild filled up in two weeks with a full roster. @Bonusfeatures is the GM and started running trial content due to demand.
There are people that want to do the content. Just have to find the right guild or right hook when forming a guild.0 -
SickDuck✭✭✭✭✭SakuraRush wrote: »Most players want the biggest reward for the least effort in the smallest amount of time. In addition to that many of the DLC dungeons are a nightmare to pug. They have actual mechanics sometimes and that seems to baffle a great many player.
This isn't an issue unique to ESO and is something you will encounter in any MMO. Players want a "gimme loot" button. The moment loot is behind a challenge those players will call for nerfs.
So, you are one of these people who are saying that i have to work for my shiny items?
No, i dont. I am playing this game after work, to relax, and not to work again.
I dont want anything gifted or a "gimme all" button, i do vet hm dungeons, but it is rediculous, in my opinion, to spent time for learning mechanics and try and try over and over again to get some content done in a game i want to play.
I dont complain about trials and their hardmodes, i have never liked raids in any game i have played so far, i just hate the rediculous difficulty and the one shot mechanics of the most dlc dungeons and the fact, that ZOS keeps releasing only harder dungeons, nothing in sight for more casual players like me.
99.9 percent of this game is designed for casual players. Vet dlc hm 4 mans, the newer vet trial(s??), and maybe vma are considered hard content. Yep, excluding literally the rest of the entire game, nothing in sight for casuals.
If by casual you mean people who struggle to find their own backside, then you’re right. Majority of the content is *** easy including most dlc normal runs. Problem is there’s no middle ground for decent players pulling stable 20k dps and able to play a few hours a week. I believe there are quite a few of these.Holdviola - Khira'de Regalo - Lélekvadász - Used To Be An Adventurer - Zetor - Does-Not-Give-A-Duck - Lord Sugar - Tenar Arha - Da'rinka - Violent Moon - Extreme Runner6 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
That is simply not true. The mentioned content (the Chapter and the small story DLC) only contain a few quests, a zone to explore and some stuff to grind (i.e. motifs). There is no replay value after that. That actual repeatable group content (you know, the Multi Player part in MMORPG) is aimed solely at the endgame player community. If I want to play a single player RPG game then I would buy one.
This is what normal modes are for. NORMAL mode. The content is ridiculously easy on normal mode. On vet you have to use your brain. You can run normals or vet all day long as often as you want. To have the entire game dumbed down to light attack clearing is beyond insane. Us folks who want harder content get it in the forms mentioned. If you want to clear hard content then that's a l2p issue.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd3 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I'm among those who won't go near DLC dungeons and several version II of the non-DLC dungeons. I know exactly the level of challenge I want and that does not include what I consider to be silly, convoluted or even downright stupid mechanics (dps checks, bosses who ignore taunts, one shot kills, hitting 'pinions (or whatever) in a certain order during the proper phase when the moons are full on a Mardas. . . . ). If I feel obliged to spend time watching You Tube walkthroughs, that tells me I'm not interested in the dungeon.
Has nothing to do with loot. You need top level gear to do top level content. Since I have no interest in top level content, I have no interest in top level gear. My healer, for example, has no interest in SPC - and for the content she enjoys she is a wonderful healer.
For those who enjoy the DLC dungeons, I am glad they are there. I'm even more glad that the more basic dungeons remain. . . more basic.
There is some very good discussion in this thread.
This post says what I wanted, only better.
The only thing I would add, maybe there is an argument for a story mode to all DLC dungeons. Mechanics closer to the original dungeons and as a consequence you do not get the motif or specialist armour sets.
More "hard mode" players play the DLC as is and get the challenge and reward of the loot, more "casual" players play story mode and the reward of completing content (which they have paid for either directly or through the ESO+)
I read this statement a lot on these forums and I always chuckle. No one paid money to be able to just do the content, you paid money to be able to ATTEMPT the content. Not all the content in this games difficulty should be adjusted to lowest skill level just because people paid for the game. They paid for the right to attempt the content, not necessarily for the right to clear it at a low skill level.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I'm among those who won't go near DLC dungeons and several version II of the non-DLC dungeons. I know exactly the level of challenge I want and that does not include what I consider to be silly, convoluted or even downright stupid mechanics (dps checks, bosses who ignore taunts, one shot kills, hitting 'pinions (or whatever) in a certain order during the proper phase when the moons are full on a Mardas. . . . ). If I feel obliged to spend time watching You Tube walkthroughs, that tells me I'm not interested in the dungeon.
Has nothing to do with loot. You need top level gear to do top level content. Since I have no interest in top level content, I have no interest in top level gear. My healer, for example, has no interest in SPC - and for the content she enjoys she is a wonderful healer.
For those who enjoy the DLC dungeons, I am glad they are there. I'm even more glad that the more basic dungeons remain. . . more basic.
There is some very good discussion in this thread.
This post says what I wanted, only better.
The only thing I would add, maybe there is an argument for a story mode to all DLC dungeons. Mechanics closer to the original dungeons and as a consequence you do not get the motif or specialist armour sets.
More "hard mode" players play the DLC as is and get the challenge and reward of the loot, more "casual" players play story mode and the reward of completing content (which they have paid for either directly or through the ESO+)
I read this statement a lot on these forums and I always chuckle. No one paid money to be able to just do the content, you paid money to be able to ATTEMPT the content. Not all the content in this games difficulty should be adjusted to lowest skill level just because people paid for the game. They paid for the right to attempt the content, not necessarily for the right to clear it at a low skill level.
While I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, if they continue to make dlc dungeon gear/motifs inaccessible to the majority of the playerbase, they won't sell enough to justify the development time and cost.Beta tester November 20136 -
IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
That is simply not true. The mentioned content (the Chapter and the small story DLC) only contain a few quests, a zone to explore and some stuff to grind (i.e. motifs). There is no replay value after that. That actual repeatable group content (you know, the Multi Player part in MMORPG) is aimed solely at the endgame player community. If I want to play a single player RPG game then I would buy one.
This is what normal modes are for. NORMAL mode. The content is ridiculously easy on normal mode. On vet you have to use your brain. You can run normals or vet all day long as often as you want. To have the entire game dumbed down to light attack clearing is beyond insane. Us folks who want harder content get it in the forms mentioned. If you want to clear hard content then that's a l2p issue.
The good ol' "try Nomal" argument ... that wasn't true for the base game where even moderately competent players are able to complete the Veteran dungeons. Also you might want to read up this thread, even the Normal DLC dungeons are pretty hard and they usually don't contain any useful loot.4 -
phileunderx2✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pugging normal dlc's and most level II dungeons is a crapshoot that more often than not it is a waste of my time and thus I will no longer do this content with randoms.2 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭There will always be easier and harder content.
When ESO came out, Vaults of Madness (the normal version, veteran didn't exist) used to be the hardest dungeon in the game. There were no champion points, no weapon ultimates and a piece of gear of a certain quality only gave around 1/4 of the stats it gives now (there have been a few very heavy buffs to gear in the history of ESO).
What people consider 60k single target dps nowadays, was 15k back then. If you were able to pull 15k single target in 2014, you were a dps god, one of the 0.01%. Most DDs were somewhere between 4k and 7k. Just light attacking would've given you maybe 200 dps. Light attacks got some ridiculous buffs along the way as well.
What I'm trying to say is, that's how MMOs work. If you find (vet) DLC dungeons too hard, don't do them yet. Do the content that fits your skill. Do the DLCs once you get better. And if you don't get better, power creep will eventually get you there anyway.
...but that doesn't answer OP's question.
The easiest way to find groups for vet DLC dungeons is when they are dailies. I never had any problems with that as DD. Since most people in an average zone chat are scared to death of anything DLC-related, you should get a response quickly when you look for a group or make a group yourself, since a message looking for "DLC HM" does stand out instantly and attracts the more adventurous heroes.
While this may have been true in the past, dps has stagnated in recent years. I've been playing for about 2 years now on and off, and top tier dps has been consistently around 50-60K, maybe 45K right when I joined.
There's also the point that the devs are actively making everyone weaker now to combat power creep. They've decided to completely reject the time-old concept of actually getting stronger as you go in MMOs.
So No, unless something drastic changes with ZOS' current vision of this game, content won't be getting any easier. Anything players can't do now, they won't be able to do, presumably ever. That's why I'm saying horizontal progression is a giant mistake, we have huge swathes of content players will never experience, no matter how many expansions come out.3 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Linaleah I suppose fun is relative. I enjoy it when there is a challenge and the DLC dungeons deliver that. I enjoy MOS, but only with a competent group. With an incompetent group, it is flat-out unbearable. Not saying you or your group are incompetent, but it does sound like they were not ready for it. There has to be a floor for damage dealing, right? Otherwise dungeons would just be overland content part deux.
You can only run COA I or EH I so many times. For me, the only reason to do those is to get Undaunted keys and transmute geodes. They are still fun, in that you can lawnmower your way through them in no time, but not as fun as when you first did them because there is no challenge to them anymore.
I'd rather do a DLC dungeon than something annoying where one of the sub-bosses has an random one shot with no warning (like Spindleclutch 1). Its one thing to die because the boss or dungeon is dealing higher damage, its another to lose the RNG lottery on an undodgeable one-shot mechanic.2 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »IwakuraLain42 wrote: »99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
That is simply not true. The mentioned content (the Chapter and the small story DLC) only contain a few quests, a zone to explore and some stuff to grind (i.e. motifs). There is no replay value after that. That actual repeatable group content (you know, the Multi Player part in MMORPG) is aimed solely at the endgame player community. If I want to play a single player RPG game then I would buy one.
This is what normal modes are for. NORMAL mode. The content is ridiculously easy on normal mode. On vet you have to use your brain. You can run normals or vet all day long as often as you want. To have the entire game dumbed down to light attack clearing is beyond insane. Us folks who want harder content get it in the forms mentioned. If you want to clear hard content then that's a l2p issue.
The good ol' "try Nomal" argument ... that wasn't true for the base game where even moderately competent players are able to complete the Veteran dungeons. Also you might want to read up this thread, even the Normal DLC dungeons are pretty hard and they usually don't contain any useful loot.
Whilst the DLCs are not as faceroll as vanilla (obviously as they were released later in the day when people had levelled), they are not 'pretty hard'. Any moderately competent group can clear all normal content without breaking a sweat. In fact, I've been in some utterly incompetent groups and carried them though normal DLC like MoS MHK etc.
MoS contains very useful loot for a lycanthrope, and WGT & ICP contain pivotal gear, others perhaps not, but surely it's about just having some fun experiencing content?Edited by FlyingSwan on October 31, 2018 5:37PM1 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »IwakuraLain42 wrote: »99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
That is simply not true. The mentioned content (the Chapter and the small story DLC) only contain a few quests, a zone to explore and some stuff to grind (i.e. motifs). There is no replay value after that. That actual repeatable group content (you know, the Multi Player part in MMORPG) is aimed solely at the endgame player community. If I want to play a single player RPG game then I would buy one.
This is what normal modes are for. NORMAL mode. The content is ridiculously easy on normal mode. On vet you have to use your brain. You can run normals or vet all day long as often as you want. To have the entire game dumbed down to light attack clearing is beyond insane. Us folks who want harder content get it in the forms mentioned. If you want to clear hard content then that's a l2p issue.
The good ol' "try Nomal" argument ... that wasn't true for the base game where even moderately competent players are able to complete the Veteran dungeons. Also you might want to read up this thread, even the Normal DLC dungeons are pretty hard and they usually don't contain any useful loot.
They carry the exact same loot as the vet versions do....
So basically you are arguing that you want content dumbed down to where you don't need to do nothing but stand in one spot and mash skills or spam light attacks and clear vet hard mode content...Seriously? I'm so glad the devs don't listen to people like you for 1 percent (at best) of the game.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd3 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Speaking for myself, after running dungeons a gazillion times, I'm just cynical. I don't need the gear, don't give a hoot about achievements, and don't want to invest my time with players who think dps means a light attack from the corner. I will help a guild buddy farm for gear, but that's about it.
On a broader note, most people just don't want to deal with the frustration of completing harder content. They want to engage in enjoyable activities. Getting frustrated over and over is not enjoyable. I totally get that too.1 -
randomkeyhits✭✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »So No, unless something drastic changes with ZOS' current vision of this game, content won't be getting any easier. Anything players can't do now, they won't be able to do, presumably ever. That's why I'm saying horizontal progression is a giant mistake, we have huge swathes of content players will never experience, no matter how many expansions come out.
This bit is definitely wrong, with horizontal progression, all players can access all the content, they may not be able to complete but they can access and if they want, they can learn.
Compare that to say DCUO which had the hamster wheel progression systems so beloved of many. Any content below your level was "useless" as the gear was at that level, you left it behind. New content was level locked so you had to be level XX before you could even see it. That meant that all their DLC were only played by the end game community, some 3% of the active player base on release. Most end game players sat on that leading wave, the ones trying to catch up had to find people willing to do content at their level, all older content, no matter how good was irrelevant and you'd be stupidly overpowered, which is all some people wanted, the ability to face-roll all old stuff in place of skilled play.
It meant if you wanted to progress your characters they had to do content within a narrow band, over and over and over until they could move up. We are well rid of that kind of content in this game.
The worst bit is this game has a static end point, its known. This means everything released should be tuned for it before it ever ships but we see stupidly overpowered stuff being released, I'm guessing marketing are in control
EU PS41 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭randomkeyhits wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »So No, unless something drastic changes with ZOS' current vision of this game, content won't be getting any easier. Anything players can't do now, they won't be able to do, presumably ever. That's why I'm saying horizontal progression is a giant mistake, we have huge swathes of content players will never experience, no matter how many expansions come out.
This bit is definitely wrong, with horizontal progression, all players can access all the content, they may not be able to complete but they can access and if they want, they can learn.
Compare that to say DCUO which had the hamster wheel progression systems so beloved of many. Any content below your level was "useless" as the gear was at that level, you left it behind. New content was level locked so you had to be level XX before you could even see it. That meant that all their DLC were only played by the end game community, some 3% of the active player base on release. Most end game players sat on that leading wave, the ones trying to catch up had to find people willing to do content at their level, all older content, no matter how good was irrelevant and you'd be stupidly overpowered, which is all some people wanted, the ability to face-roll all old stuff in place of skilled play.
It meant if you wanted to progress your characters they had to do content within a narrow band, over and over and over until they could move up. We are well rid of that kind of content in this game.
The worst bit is this game has a static end point, its known. This means everything released should be tuned for it before it ever ships but we see stupidly overpowered stuff being released, I'm guessing marketing are in control
I mean yes, there are cases where players will get better, but I'd say the vast majority won't. After a certain number of months / years, most players will plateau in terms of skill, or at least skill based on the amount of effort they're willing to put in. And for most players, that plateau is far below the skill level of the DLC dungeons, in some cases for normal and in almost every case for vet. I'm being a realist here and you're being an idealist
I never played DCUO, but you are correct in that vertical progression has its downsides as well. However, there are ways to make "outdated" content appealing for players, so there are enough bodies to fill raids between those who want to experience and those who are there for other reasons.
The short answer is, cosmetics. Cosmetics such as mounts, skins, and most of all weapon and armor skins, are becoming increasingly popular in modern gaming. There are tons of players in other MMOs I've played who will run outdated content regularly, because those raids / dungeons / etc have unique skins, mounts, costumes, etc. So yes, I 100% believe there is a way to do vertical progression that makes old content relevant for vets and enjoyable / doable for more casual players.
TL; DR I'd rather be stupidly overpowered and actually get to see the content eventually in a vertical progression system versus potentially never seeing it in a horizontal progression system. The fact that most players will never, ever complete a single DLC dungeon or any recent trial on veteran seems dumb to me.
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »Most players want the biggest reward for the least effort in the smallest amount of time. In addition to that many of the DLC dungeons are a nightmare to pug. They have actual mechanics sometimes and that seems to baffle a great many player.
This isn't an issue unique to ESO and is something you will encounter in any MMO. Players want a "gimme loot" button. The moment loot is behind a challenge those players will call for nerfs.
So, you are one of these people who are saying that i have to work for my shiny items?
No, i dont. I am playing this game after work, to relax, and not to work again.
I dont want anything gifted or a "gimme all" button, i do vet hm dungeons, but it is rediculous, in my opinion, to spent time for learning mechanics and try and try over and over again to get some content done in a game i want to play.
I dont complain about trials and their hardmodes, i have never liked raids in any game i have played so far, i just hate the rediculous difficulty and the one shot mechanics of the most dlc dungeons and the fact, that ZOS keeps releasing only harder dungeons, nothing in sight for more casual players like me.
99.9 percent of this game is designed for casual players. Vet dlc hm 4 mans, the newer vet trial(s??), and maybe vma are considered hard content. Yep, excluding literally the rest of the entire game, nothing in sight for casuals.
99.9 percent of this game is OLD content. ZOS should not expect average players to keep subsidizing new DLC that only feature content designed for a tiny minority of players.
99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
The last trial to be released was CR. My guild is full of casual folks where you'll get more accolades for completing master angler than you will for CR on vet and on launch day we walked in there (not on vet) with 12 people (most who don't raid) and blew through it with no strats at all while /lute during boss fights. This game is designed for the casual person first, period. All overland content that is released can be breezed through with light attacks only while drooling on yourself. So one piece of content per launch of new content is hard only if you CHOOSE to run it on the hard version which drops rewards barely better than the easy version of said content; dlc dungeons are 2 pieces of hard content if CHOSEN to ran on the hard version of them.
So other than the vet or hard mode version of what's released yearly, what is so hard about content that ZOS is releasing that casual players are having a hard time with? Delve bosses?
edit:
Normal CR was being cleared by people forming pugs of anyone in zone chat cp 160 + that would respond to the lfg requests the moment it launched.
You don't get it. These players you call casuals aren't just interested in fishing trophies. People WANT to do 4 man dungeons. They WANT to be healers and tanks and DPSers. On top of that, they want to get their hands on cool new gear. In many cases, they NEED that gear.
What people don't want are these hell mode DLC dungeons that require that you go watch videos on YouTube and memorize a bunch of complicated mechanics. The base game dungeons have mechanics, but they're usually pretty obvious and can be conquered by pugs if they try hard enough and their builds aren't compete trash.
Edited by Emma_Overload on October 31, 2018 7:41PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE7 -
IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »IwakuraLain42 wrote: »99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
That is simply not true. The mentioned content (the Chapter and the small story DLC) only contain a few quests, a zone to explore and some stuff to grind (i.e. motifs). There is no replay value after that. That actual repeatable group content (you know, the Multi Player part in MMORPG) is aimed solely at the endgame player community. If I want to play a single player RPG game then I would buy one.
This is what normal modes are for. NORMAL mode. The content is ridiculously easy on normal mode. On vet you have to use your brain. You can run normals or vet all day long as often as you want. To have the entire game dumbed down to light attack clearing is beyond insane. Us folks who want harder content get it in the forms mentioned. If you want to clear hard content then that's a l2p issue.
The good ol' "try Nomal" argument ... that wasn't true for the base game where even moderately competent players are able to complete the Veteran dungeons. Also you might want to read up this thread, even the Normal DLC dungeons are pretty hard and they usually don't contain any useful loot.
They carry the exact same loot as the vet versions do....
So basically you are arguing that you want content dumbed down to where you don't need to do nothing but stand in one spot and mash skills or spam light attacks and clear vet hard mode content...Seriously? I'm so glad the devs don't listen to people like you for 1 percent (at best) of the game.
No they don't. They do not drop Monster helmets (one of the most import pieces of loot in dungeons) and (for all intents and purposes) they do not drop motif pages (anything with a drop rate of 1% is the same as non existent).
I can see in my friend list how good that went, from the people I know since the launch nearly all have dropped the game and the few that remained play mostly PvP.2 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »Most players want the biggest reward for the least effort in the smallest amount of time. In addition to that many of the DLC dungeons are a nightmare to pug. They have actual mechanics sometimes and that seems to baffle a great many player.
This isn't an issue unique to ESO and is something you will encounter in any MMO. Players want a "gimme loot" button. The moment loot is behind a challenge those players will call for nerfs.
So, you are one of these people who are saying that i have to work for my shiny items?
No, i dont. I am playing this game after work, to relax, and not to work again.
I dont want anything gifted or a "gimme all" button, i do vet hm dungeons, but it is rediculous, in my opinion, to spent time for learning mechanics and try and try over and over again to get some content done in a game i want to play.
I dont complain about trials and their hardmodes, i have never liked raids in any game i have played so far, i just hate the rediculous difficulty and the one shot mechanics of the most dlc dungeons and the fact, that ZOS keeps releasing only harder dungeons, nothing in sight for more casual players like me.
99.9 percent of this game is designed for casual players. Vet dlc hm 4 mans, the newer vet trial(s??), and maybe vma are considered hard content. Yep, excluding literally the rest of the entire game, nothing in sight for casuals.
99.9 percent of this game is OLD content. ZOS should not expect average players to keep subsidizing new DLC that only feature content designed for a tiny minority of players.
99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
The last trial to be released was CR. My guild is full of casual folks where you'll get more accolades for completing master angler than you will for CR on vet and on launch day we walked in there (not on vet) with 12 people (most who don't raid) and blew through it with no strats at all while /lute during boss fights. This game is designed for the casual person first, period. All overland content that is released can be breezed through with light attacks only while drooling on yourself. So one piece of content per launch of new content is hard only if you CHOOSE to run it on the hard version which drops rewards barely better than the easy version of said content; dlc dungeons are 2 pieces of hard content if CHOSEN to ran on the hard version of them.
So other than the vet or hard mode version of what's released yearly, what is so hard about content that ZOS is releasing that casual players are having a hard time with? Delve bosses?
edit:
Normal CR was being cleared by people forming pugs of anyone in zone chat cp 160 + that would respond to the lfg requests the moment it launched.
You don't get it. These players you call casuals aren't just interested in fishing trophies. People WANT to do 4 man dungeons. They WANT to be healers and tanks and DPSers. On top of that, they want to get their hands on cool new gear. In many cases, they NEED that gear.
What people don't want are these hell mode DLC dungeons that require that you go watch videos on YouTube and memorize a bunch of complicated mechanics. The base game dungeons have mechanics, but they're usually pretty obvious and can be conquered by pugs if they try hard enough and their builds aren't compete trash.
And there are plenty of dungeons for such players, they are called 'normal' mode of anything. For players like myself (I am a casual player, albeit I hit CP cap the other week), we like a challenge, so there is vet mode. And that scales from faceroll (the vanilla content vet dungeons) to hard (the newer DLC vet dungeons) to punishing and not yet 'completable' for me, aka HM vet trials.
This seems just fine to me, there's a careful gradient of difficulty and depending where one's skills lie, one may or may not be able to complete it all today. But rest assured one will be able to one day. When vWGT landed I dreaded it popping in my random vet Finder, but now I can carry any group through it, such is power creep and the general improvement in my skills.
You seem to be implying that there's a generation of kiddies who want it all today. Well, that's not how life works; if one wishes to be a high achiever, one has to put the hours in. That's all part of the fun of life.
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BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »Most players want the biggest reward for the least effort in the smallest amount of time. In addition to that many of the DLC dungeons are a nightmare to pug. They have actual mechanics sometimes and that seems to baffle a great many player.
This isn't an issue unique to ESO and is something you will encounter in any MMO. Players want a "gimme loot" button. The moment loot is behind a challenge those players will call for nerfs.
So, you are one of these people who are saying that i have to work for my shiny items?
No, i dont. I am playing this game after work, to relax, and not to work again.
I dont want anything gifted or a "gimme all" button, i do vet hm dungeons, but it is rediculous, in my opinion, to spent time for learning mechanics and try and try over and over again to get some content done in a game i want to play.
I dont complain about trials and their hardmodes, i have never liked raids in any game i have played so far, i just hate the rediculous difficulty and the one shot mechanics of the most dlc dungeons and the fact, that ZOS keeps releasing only harder dungeons, nothing in sight for more casual players like me.
99.9 percent of this game is designed for casual players. Vet dlc hm 4 mans, the newer vet trial(s??), and maybe vma are considered hard content. Yep, excluding literally the rest of the entire game, nothing in sight for casuals.
99.9 percent of this game is OLD content. ZOS should not expect average players to keep subsidizing new DLC that only feature content designed for a tiny minority of players.
99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
The last trial to be released was CR. My guild is full of casual folks where you'll get more accolades for completing master angler than you will for CR on vet and on launch day we walked in there (not on vet) with 12 people (most who don't raid) and blew through it with no strats at all while /lute during boss fights. This game is designed for the casual person first, period. All overland content that is released can be breezed through with light attacks only while drooling on yourself. So one piece of content per launch of new content is hard only if you CHOOSE to run it on the hard version which drops rewards barely better than the easy version of said content; dlc dungeons are 2 pieces of hard content if CHOSEN to ran on the hard version of them.
So other than the vet or hard mode version of what's released yearly, what is so hard about content that ZOS is releasing that casual players are having a hard time with? Delve bosses?
edit:
Normal CR was being cleared by people forming pugs of anyone in zone chat cp 160 + that would respond to the lfg requests the moment it launched.
You don't get it. These players you call casuals aren't just interested in fishing trophies. People WANT to do 4 man dungeons. They WANT to be healers and tanks and DPSers. On top of that, they want to get their hands on cool new gear. In many cases, they NEED that gear.
What people don't want are these hell mode DLC dungeons that require that you go watch videos on YouTube and memorize a bunch of complicated mechanics. The base game dungeons have mechanics, but they're usually pretty obvious and can be conquered by pugs if they try hard enough and their builds aren't compete trash.
MHK and MOS are literally nothing but mechanics. Cloudrest, as I said before, was pugged from zone chat with people accepting ANYONE cp 160 or higher on RELEASE. Blind runs. It's that easy. People are currently pugging BRP from zone chat as I type this. I've heard of folks solo'ing normal.
You're no longer talking about casual people. What you are talking about are people who just will not learn simple concepts of game play that let them do dungeons. Get some gear other than your RP set and head in there, do the mechanics, get the rewards. Joining a guild makes it simpler. If you can not be bothered to do any of that then stay out of group content. Heaven forbid someone has to actually use their brain to accomplish content. Vet can be difficult only if you make it difficult. Sitting back spamming light attacks while wearing your RP gear is not going to clear content.
Everyone says that stuff is hard. WHAT PART? The hard mode? The vet mode? The normal mode? Nothing is hard in there if you put any thought towards what's going on except maybe the hard mode versions.
They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd3 -
Alamakot✭✭✭
Yes. But from other side players weren't forced to weave many heavy attacks to regain some magicka/stamina. Repentance worked for all group. BoL saved lives when healers were turned back from dying char. And many more examples of game mechanic (skills, sustain, now dmg shield cap) nerfed after Orsinium and Imperial City (the best DLC's in game) release.There will always be easier and harder content.
When ESO came out, Vaults of Madness (the normal version, veteran didn't exist) used to be the hardest dungeon in the game. There were no champion points, no weapon ultimates and a piece of gear of a certain quality only gave around 1/4 of the stats it gives now (there have been a few very heavy buffs to gear in the history of ESO).
I really wish I could turn back to V16 gameplay.
Game is (and should be) FOR FUN. If level of frustration and feeling of wasting time for nothing are bigger than fun, most people avoid such an "entertiment".
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Cloudrest and BRP normal yes, hardly vet however people pugs vet craglorn trials. normal dlc dungeons its not an problem they are in line with easier vet, probably easier but you tend to get worse groups.Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »Most players want the biggest reward for the least effort in the smallest amount of time. In addition to that many of the DLC dungeons are a nightmare to pug. They have actual mechanics sometimes and that seems to baffle a great many player.
This isn't an issue unique to ESO and is something you will encounter in any MMO. Players want a "gimme loot" button. The moment loot is behind a challenge those players will call for nerfs.
So, you are one of these people who are saying that i have to work for my shiny items?
No, i dont. I am playing this game after work, to relax, and not to work again.
I dont want anything gifted or a "gimme all" button, i do vet hm dungeons, but it is rediculous, in my opinion, to spent time for learning mechanics and try and try over and over again to get some content done in a game i want to play.
I dont complain about trials and their hardmodes, i have never liked raids in any game i have played so far, i just hate the rediculous difficulty and the one shot mechanics of the most dlc dungeons and the fact, that ZOS keeps releasing only harder dungeons, nothing in sight for more casual players like me.
99.9 percent of this game is designed for casual players. Vet dlc hm 4 mans, the newer vet trial(s??), and maybe vma are considered hard content. Yep, excluding literally the rest of the entire game, nothing in sight for casuals.
99.9 percent of this game is OLD content. ZOS should not expect average players to keep subsidizing new DLC that only feature content designed for a tiny minority of players.
99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
The last trial to be released was CR. My guild is full of casual folks where you'll get more accolades for completing master angler than you will for CR on vet and on launch day we walked in there (not on vet) with 12 people (most who don't raid) and blew through it with no strats at all while /lute during boss fights. This game is designed for the casual person first, period. All overland content that is released can be breezed through with light attacks only while drooling on yourself. So one piece of content per launch of new content is hard only if you CHOOSE to run it on the hard version which drops rewards barely better than the easy version of said content; dlc dungeons are 2 pieces of hard content if CHOSEN to ran on the hard version of them.
So other than the vet or hard mode version of what's released yearly, what is so hard about content that ZOS is releasing that casual players are having a hard time with? Delve bosses?
edit:
Normal CR was being cleared by people forming pugs of anyone in zone chat cp 160 + that would respond to the lfg requests the moment it launched.
You don't get it. These players you call casuals aren't just interested in fishing trophies. People WANT to do 4 man dungeons. They WANT to be healers and tanks and DPSers. On top of that, they want to get their hands on cool new gear. In many cases, they NEED that gear.
What people don't want are these hell mode DLC dungeons that require that you go watch videos on YouTube and memorize a bunch of complicated mechanics. The base game dungeons have mechanics, but they're usually pretty obvious and can be conquered by pugs if they try hard enough and their builds aren't compete trash.
MHK and MOS are literally nothing but mechanics. Cloudrest, as I said before, was pugged from zone chat with people accepting ANYONE cp 160 or higher on RELEASE. Blind runs. It's that easy. People are currently pugging BRP from zone chat as I type this. I've heard of folks solo'ing normal.
You're no longer talking about casual people. What you are talking about are people who just will not learn simple concepts of game play that let them do dungeons. Get some gear other than your RP set and head in there, do the mechanics, get the rewards. Joining a guild makes it simpler. If you can not be bothered to do any of that then stay out of group content. Heaven forbid someone has to actually use their brain to accomplish content. Vet can be difficult only if you make it difficult. Sitting back spamming light attacks while wearing your RP gear is not going to clear content.
Everyone says that stuff is hard. WHAT PART? The hard mode? The vet mode? The normal mode? Nothing is hard in there if you put any thought towards what's going on except maybe the hard mode versions.
Vet dlc is not very pugable and even if you find an excellent group doing the easier ones some is missing the dlc.
Yes I have done it lots of times but it require long time for the first clear, not something you will do with an pug as its to high chance the group folds.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Preach @BuddyAces. I can't agree strongly enough.
When I started doing dungeons, I knew better than to start off with vet Bloodroot Forge. I ran the older, easier ones to get some experience with group dungeons. When MHK and MOS came out, I ran it a few times on normal to figure out what was going on before doing vets. Apparently, I am in the minority on these threads because jumping straight into vet hard mode should be something everyone can do on their first try.
I thought people played this game because it was long, challenging, and offered a mix of solo, group, and PVP content. Yet, every day I see people on this site demanding everything get nerfed and to stop making the content so hard. There's a thread right now demanding the vMA bow get nerfed....... FOR PVE. Because its too hard for some players to get.2 -
Somewhere✭✭✭✭I have to wonder if people would bother running them more if we had leaderboards for the vet dlc 4 man dungeons with rewards.0 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I'm among those who won't go near DLC dungeons and several version II of the non-DLC dungeons. I know exactly the level of challenge I want and that does not include what I consider to be silly, convoluted or even downright stupid mechanics (dps checks, bosses who ignore taunts, one shot kills, hitting 'pinions (or whatever) in a certain order during the proper phase when the moons are full on a Mardas. . . . ). If I feel obliged to spend time watching You Tube walkthroughs, that tells me I'm not interested in the dungeon.
Has nothing to do with loot. You need top level gear to do top level content. Since I have no interest in top level content, I have no interest in top level gear. My healer, for example, has no interest in SPC - and for the content she enjoys she is a wonderful healer.
For those who enjoy the DLC dungeons, I am glad they are there. I'm even more glad that the more basic dungeons remain. . . more basic.
There is some very good discussion in this thread.
This post says what I wanted, only better.
The only thing I would add, maybe there is an argument for a story mode to all DLC dungeons. Mechanics closer to the original dungeons and as a consequence you do not get the motif or specialist armour sets.
More "hard mode" players play the DLC as is and get the challenge and reward of the loot, more "casual" players play story mode and the reward of completing content (which they have paid for either directly or through the ESO+)
I read this statement a lot on these forums and I always chuckle. No one paid money to be able to just do the content, you paid money to be able to ATTEMPT the content. Not all the content in this games difficulty should be adjusted to lowest skill level just because people paid for the game. They paid for the right to attempt the content, not necessarily for the right to clear it at a low skill level.
While I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, if they continue to make dlc dungeon gear/motifs inaccessible to the majority of the playerbase, they won't sell enough to justify the development time and cost.
Well they’re still making two a year, so enough people are buying them to justify them making the content obviously. Do you think they’d churn out two of them a year if they’re as unpopular as you say they are? Maybe your perception about the percentage of the playerbase that is doing these dungeons is way off base. Does anyone actually have any numbers to back up the opinion that these dungeons are massively unpopular? Or are people just making assumptions which is the worst thing you can do? Maybe they’re more popular then people think.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlyingSwan wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »Most players want the biggest reward for the least effort in the smallest amount of time. In addition to that many of the DLC dungeons are a nightmare to pug. They have actual mechanics sometimes and that seems to baffle a great many player.
This isn't an issue unique to ESO and is something you will encounter in any MMO. Players want a "gimme loot" button. The moment loot is behind a challenge those players will call for nerfs.
So, you are one of these people who are saying that i have to work for my shiny items?
No, i dont. I am playing this game after work, to relax, and not to work again.
I dont want anything gifted or a "gimme all" button, i do vet hm dungeons, but it is rediculous, in my opinion, to spent time for learning mechanics and try and try over and over again to get some content done in a game i want to play.
I dont complain about trials and their hardmodes, i have never liked raids in any game i have played so far, i just hate the rediculous difficulty and the one shot mechanics of the most dlc dungeons and the fact, that ZOS keeps releasing only harder dungeons, nothing in sight for more casual players like me.
99.9 percent of this game is designed for casual players. Vet dlc hm 4 mans, the newer vet trial(s??), and maybe vma are considered hard content. Yep, excluding literally the rest of the entire game, nothing in sight for casuals.
99.9 percent of this game is OLD content. ZOS should not expect average players to keep subsidizing new DLC that only feature content designed for a tiny minority of players.
99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
The last trial to be released was CR. My guild is full of casual folks where you'll get more accolades for completing master angler than you will for CR on vet and on launch day we walked in there (not on vet) with 12 people (most who don't raid) and blew through it with no strats at all while /lute during boss fights. This game is designed for the casual person first, period. All overland content that is released can be breezed through with light attacks only while drooling on yourself. So one piece of content per launch of new content is hard only if you CHOOSE to run it on the hard version which drops rewards barely better than the easy version of said content; dlc dungeons are 2 pieces of hard content if CHOSEN to ran on the hard version of them.
So other than the vet or hard mode version of what's released yearly, what is so hard about content that ZOS is releasing that casual players are having a hard time with? Delve bosses?
edit:
Normal CR was being cleared by people forming pugs of anyone in zone chat cp 160 + that would respond to the lfg requests the moment it launched.
You don't get it. These players you call casuals aren't just interested in fishing trophies. People WANT to do 4 man dungeons. They WANT to be healers and tanks and DPSers. On top of that, they want to get their hands on cool new gear. In many cases, they NEED that gear.
What people don't want are these hell mode DLC dungeons that require that you go watch videos on YouTube and memorize a bunch of complicated mechanics. The base game dungeons have mechanics, but they're usually pretty obvious and can be conquered by pugs if they try hard enough and their builds aren't compete trash.
And there are plenty of dungeons for such players, they are called 'normal' mode of anything. For players like myself (I am a casual player, albeit I hit CP cap the other week), we like a challenge, so there is vet mode. And that scales from faceroll (the vanilla content vet dungeons) to hard (the newer DLC vet dungeons) to punishing and not yet 'completable' for me, aka HM vet trials.
This seems just fine to me, there's a careful gradient of difficulty and depending where one's skills lie, one may or may not be able to complete it all today. But rest assured one will be able to one day. When vWGT landed I dreaded it popping in my random vet Finder, but now I can carry any group through it, such is power creep and the general improvement in my skills.
You seem to be implying that there's a generation of kiddies who want it all today. Well, that's not how life works; if one wishes to be a high achiever, one has to put the hours in. That's all part of the fun of life.
Like another poster said above, normal dungeons don't drop monster helms. This is a huge problem that guys like @BuddyAces don't seem to understand. ZOS has a long history of resetting the PvP meta by dropping grossly overpowered monster sets into these DLC dungeons. Doing DLC dungeons on normal does NOTHING to help PvP players who need to catch up to the meta FAST. And before you mention The Golden vendor, I'll point out that Zaan STILL hasn't been offered for sale.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »Preach @BuddyAces. I can't agree strongly enough.
When I started doing dungeons, I knew better than to start off with vet Bloodroot Forge. I ran the older, easier ones to get some experience with group dungeons. When MHK and MOS came out, I ran it a few times on normal to figure out what was going on before doing vets. Apparently, I am in the minority on these threads because jumping straight into vet hard mode should be something everyone can do on their first try.
I thought people played this game because it was long, challenging, and offered a mix of solo, group, and PVP content. Yet, every day I see people on this site demanding everything get nerfed and to stop making the content so hard. There's a thread right now demanding the vMA bow get nerfed....... FOR PVE. Because its too hard for some players to get.
Nobody expects Vet DLC dungeons to be as easy as overland content, public delves or public dungeons. We did kinda expect DLC to be similar to the base game Vet dungeons... you know, the game we were SOLD in the first place? Instead, ZOS has pulled this "bait and switch" on us, and it just keeps getting worse and worse. There is no NEW Vet content for players who want MEDIUM difficulty. Not easy mode, not hard mode, but simply medium.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE4 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭why do 1 hour pledge when u can do non dlc pledge in 5 mins on alt? most players have too many chars and its much quicker to get 2 more keys that way..1 -
Seri✭✭✭✭
ZOS always wanted the original delves to be longer too - to the point they went back and extended a lot of them but many still have the 'simple' circle layout inside. Example (see 'Larger Delves' header).jainiadral wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Diminishing returns. Probably because people started demanding harder and harder content, because they and their 2 friends want it, but the rest of the world doesn't want to be stuck in a dungeon for 3 hours trying to do ridiculously diffficult content. Plus anyone who contends with lag, like a lot of us Aussies, might as well not even bother joining the group.
I like moderately challenging content, but don't want frustration. If I want to be frustrated, I go to work, and they pay me for it.
And before it gets said, no, most people can't solo a group dungeon, even FG1, and they can't pull 40K dps.
This. if i wanted to spend 1-3 hours in an instance, i would do maelstrom or a trial or something. I like my dungeon runs( not speed runs either) to be like my pizza, 30 minutes or less. It takes longer to do DLC dungeons but the number of bosses are the same and thus the rewards are generally the same. So dont want to run them unless i need gear in them and that is rarely.
I've noticed the trend toward longer duration in just about everything in this game. DLC delves are insanely long and complex beginning with Orsinium.
This is the stuff I like to hear. That idea of dealing with the adds as they spawn is what everyone used to do when that dungeon first launched - the problem is now a lot of people have the expectation of ignoring them... and then get annoyed when they die. I've happily taught people vWGT before as well, with a mix of CP300-500 (plus myself) - 3/4 of the group when we got to the Planar Inhibitor were 'I've never cleared this before' and 'this boss has always been a disaster'. We wiped two or three times and I helped explain the mechanics or things that needed to happen after each wipe, then cleared it. Same with Kena at the end, everyone went away feeThe reality is there is very little requirement beyond 300CP for vet-DLC dungeons as enforced by the game. Just a willingness to learn a fight and not get to hung up when people die or the fight takes an extra minute or 2. I pugged DC2 the other day when it was the pledge and ended up with a "DPS-challenged" group. And the engine guardian is still one of those bosses that can give groups fits. I ended up staying in my tank gear and taunting the adds as the group decided it was easier to focus on one or the other. We wiped once and the second fight was probably like 8 minutes, but we finished HM. No we didn't set any records but who cares?
IMO it's more the case that they think they need that gear? The DLC monster helms and sets aren't _that_ much better than the vanilla dungeons (if at all - selene, ilambris, slimecraw, skoria and bogdan are all vanilla dungeon helms that are popular or get used).Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »Most players want the biggest reward for the least effort in the smallest amount of time. In addition to that many of the DLC dungeons are a nightmare to pug. They have actual mechanics sometimes and that seems to baffle a great many player.
This isn't an issue unique to ESO and is something you will encounter in any MMO. Players want a "gimme loot" button. The moment loot is behind a challenge those players will call for nerfs.
So, you are one of these people who are saying that i have to work for my shiny items?
No, i dont. I am playing this game after work, to relax, and not to work again.
I dont want anything gifted or a "gimme all" button, i do vet hm dungeons, but it is rediculous, in my opinion, to spent time for learning mechanics and try and try over and over again to get some content done in a game i want to play.
I dont complain about trials and their hardmodes, i have never liked raids in any game i have played so far, i just hate the rediculous difficulty and the one shot mechanics of the most dlc dungeons and the fact, that ZOS keeps releasing only harder dungeons, nothing in sight for more casual players like me.
99.9 percent of this game is designed for casual players. Vet dlc hm 4 mans, the newer vet trial(s??), and maybe vma are considered hard content. Yep, excluding literally the rest of the entire game, nothing in sight for casuals.
99.9 percent of this game is OLD content. ZOS should not expect average players to keep subsidizing new DLC that only feature content designed for a tiny minority of players.
99 percent of all new released content is aimed at casual players. We got vet brp this time as hard content. The last 2 released dlc dungeons are hard on vet HM with MHK HM probably being the easiest dlc HM to complete of them all.
The last trial to be released was CR. My guild is full of casual folks where you'll get more accolades for completing master angler than you will for CR on vet and on launch day we walked in there (not on vet) with 12 people (most who don't raid) and blew through it with no strats at all while /lute during boss fights. This game is designed for the casual person first, period. All overland content that is released can be breezed through with light attacks only while drooling on yourself. So one piece of content per launch of new content is hard only if you CHOOSE to run it on the hard version which drops rewards barely better than the easy version of said content; dlc dungeons are 2 pieces of hard content if CHOSEN to ran on the hard version of them.
So other than the vet or hard mode version of what's released yearly, what is so hard about content that ZOS is releasing that casual players are having a hard time with? Delve bosses?
edit:
Normal CR was being cleared by people forming pugs of anyone in zone chat cp 160 + that would respond to the lfg requests the moment it launched.
You don't get it. These players you call casuals aren't just interested in fishing trophies. People WANT to do 4 man dungeons. They WANT to be healers and tanks and DPSers. On top of that, they want to get their hands on cool new gear. In many cases, they NEED that gear.
What people don't want are these hell mode DLC dungeons that require that you go watch videos on YouTube and memorize a bunch of complicated mechanics. The base game dungeons have mechanics, but they're usually pretty obvious and can be conquered by pugs if they try hard enough and their builds aren't compete trash.
Something that should be pointed out is the vanilla dungeons also have a progression of mechanics. FG1, Spindle 1 and BC1 have almost no mechanics, because they were designed for L12-15 players originally. Everything after those dungeons is a progression on mechanics. Eg, Arx introduces the 'healing' snake boss (stand outside the red AOE as it sleeps), Direfrost extends that and requires the player to break the healing channel.
IMO the original dungeons have also been around long enough that it's hard to get a group where no-one knows at least the crucial 'do this or die' while many of the new ones people are still being learned. And if you really want there's plenty of YouTube videos explaining those original dungeon mechanics as well.EP CP160+ Templar, Sorc, NB
DC CP160+ Templar, Sorc, DK2 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭To me, the difficulty of DLC dungeons was in a good place until the wolfhunter DLC. There were one shots in all of those dungeons, but mostly they were fairly visible and mostly fair. Dragon Bones had a steep difficulty spike in HM, and the mechanics were still mostly fair.
But wolfhunter just took it to a different kind of annoying. It's not fun to have constantly spawning snare spamming insta gib mobs coming at you constantly from all directions.
The real problem in my opinion is quite frankly the abusive relationship ZOS has with its players. They ignore the class representatives that they appointed, and at this point they engage in pretty much every microtransaction scheme in the industry... and since I've gone into this at some length in other posts, I won't bother repeating it.
PvP was once a fantastic multifaction brawl where your skills, strategies, and planning were rewarded above all else... now it's basically a contest for who can stack the most broken combination of gear. Admittedly with the power creep that happens every patch in the gear, and the nerf to skills in order to balance the additional power... it really was only a matter of time before something like this enchant meta came into existence.
Basically, a lot of long time players are just disillusioned with the game, and that's why a lot of people are just done.
I'm grateful to ZOS for the fun I did have when the game was in its prime, but all good things must end it seems.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter2 -
lokulin✭✭✭✭✭Karmanorway wrote: »I'm not sure if it is just the guilds I am in or the time of day I play (late evening Australia) but it seems to me that it is harder and harder to get a group together for DLC dungeons even when they are the pledge. Getting a group together to try hard mode, speed or no death runs is even harder.
I've also noticed a steady decrease in the number of people on my friends list logging in.
I've asked a few other long term players and they say they see the same thing. Has anyone else noticed this trend or do I just need to find some new guilds and friends?
Not that hard if you go as something else than DD. I had succes getting to Fang Lair with my tank and it was not pleasant. After 5 hrs we cleared it, so yeah i understand why ppl wont run those with pugs :-) and personaly i Will never ever ever queue for random ppl again in dlc dungeons 😂 then i would rater go with Friends or guildies that knows the content, and understands the mechanics u have explained 50 times...
Rerolled my sorc as a tank recently and have managed to reasonably easily do Bloodroot, March of Sacrifices, Falkreath Hold, Moonhunter Keep reasonably easily with a group of guild mates. Sustain was still a bit of an issue compared to using my DK tank but race changing to Argonian helped a bit along with the occasional orb or shard. Over the past three days I have also tried pugging Bloodroot forge four times (I'm still chasing no death) and it has been an absolute crapfest. Only one group managed to complete it and that was after maybe one and half hours of wipes and trying different tactics on the bosses to counter their poorer survive-ability and dps. The same goes for the one run of Banished Cells II that manged to get to the last boss and then not have enough DPS to complete it. I still enjoyed every run but it isn't every day that I want to spend over an hour and a half struggling through a dungeon.I've hidden your signature.0
