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racial passives idea
LovesCoffee
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For the start sorry about my english, it's not a native language for me.
I know a lot of people already started such threads, but i never saw an idea that came into my mind a long ago, what is every race will get 3 sets of passive skills to chose? Something like passive skills for tank role, a rogue (stamina dd) and a mage (magicka based characters)? An unique skills of course. This may bring a great diversity about races and can help with BIS race for class/role problem, i know there is a lot of players who'd like to play as Nord magicka sorcerer for example, but it's really hurt theyr gameplay compared to altmer or dunmer toons which got much better passives for theyr class and role, same happens is someone trying to play altmer as stamina character. What u guys think about such idea, interestig to know your opinion, thanks in advance for your attention!
I know a lot of people already started such threads, but i never saw an idea that came into my mind a long ago, what is every race will get 3 sets of passive skills to chose? Something like passive skills for tank role, a rogue (stamina dd) and a mage (magicka based characters)? An unique skills of course. This may bring a great diversity about races and can help with BIS race for class/role problem, i know there is a lot of players who'd like to play as Nord magicka sorcerer for example, but it's really hurt theyr gameplay compared to altmer or dunmer toons which got much better passives for theyr class and role, same happens is someone trying to play altmer as stamina character. What u guys think about such idea, interestig to know your opinion, thanks in advance for your attention!
racial passives idea 51 votes
Yes, i like it.
37%
19 votes
No, i want current system to stay as it is.
62%
32 votes
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I personally prefer the current system, I want the races to each have something that makes them special and specialists in what their races are known for. I'm fine with more tuning and changing but I like the current system.
You don't need to play the BiS races to complete content in the game, it just makes it easier. Everyone says you need to be a Argonian to tank, I know a famous Khajiit that proves otherwise.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
ScardyFox✭✭✭✭✭I kinda like the idea of being able to pick a route of passives you'd like for your character.
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SixVoltCar✭✭✭It'd break the lore and spoil the race choice-- it would be more acceptable to render the racial passives irrelevant.
If this were to function, what you COULD do it make "genetic" passives and have a selection, but that selection would have to affect the look of your character. Two handed specialization would require you have beefcake arms for example-- RPers wouldn't go for this, because then they can't look like delicate anime characters.0 -
phaneub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless you're extremely competitive and want to maximize every opportunity, there's no reason to base your choices on race when picking a class. There are many players out there who do have Khajiit Casters, even though they are more leaning towards physical damage. Their racials have no benefit to Caster builds, but that doesn't mean they can't do it well.3 -
ScardyFox✭✭✭✭✭Would only break the lore if they strayed out of the lore for the passives. Thankfully there is plenty of lore that could facilitate different routes of passives.
As for erasing passives - there is nothing I despise more then that idea. And I don't even play ArGODian.
Ah well it will never happen.2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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They could do something like Paizo are doing with 2nd Edition Pathfinder RPG.I kinda like the idea of being able to pick a route of passives you'd like for your character.
You have a Heritage which is your fixed ancestry (racial) abilities, then you have ancestry feats you can choose to customise more about your characters ancestry.
ZOS could go down a route where you have passive morphs for the racial skills, which represent if your character was more martial trained or magic train for example.
However these are more "background" than actual racial abilities.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
LovesCoffee✭✭im agreed there is people who don't care about having BIS race for theyr class, but im more about tired to see every second tank an argonian or 90% or sorcs are altmer or dunmer, current system is forcing rest people to chose certain race and u can't do nothing about it than to change race system2
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Indeed, people have said this time and time again.LovesCoffee wrote: »I know a lot of people already started such threads, but i never saw an idea that came into my mind a long ago, what is every race will get 3 sets of passive skills to chose?
The "gimme crowd" people who want to cherry-pick their passives for super-effectiveness and dump on the elder scrolls lore that -explicitely- states that some races have an advantage in some fields.
And always, lore-loving people like me disagree severely with any such idea.
You mean, like... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442350/character-background-passivesHowever these are more "background" than actual racial abilities.
And yeah, that is -my- take on the problem.
An idea to -add- more (and freely selectable) passives to the existing system that play -with- the lore instead of throwing the lore out and letting people cherry-pick "racial" passives.
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ScardyFox✭✭✭✭✭
They could do something like Paizo are doing with 2nd Edition Pathfinder RPG.I kinda like the idea of being able to pick a route of passives you'd like for your character.
You have a Heritage which is your fixed ancestry (racial) abilities, then you have ancestry feats you can choose to customise more about your characters ancestry.
ZOS could go down a route where you have passive morphs for the racial skills, which represent if your character was more martial trained or magic train for example.
However these are more "background" than actual racial abilities.
Yeah, I'd like that. Could be a way to give a bit more identity back to characters when it seems like everything is being homogenized.0 -
LovesCoffee✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Indeed, people have said this time and time again.LovesCoffee wrote: »I know a lot of people already started such threads, but i never saw an idea that came into my mind a long ago, what is every race will get 3 sets of passive skills to chose?
The "gimme crowd" people who want to cherry-pick their passives for super-effectiveness and dump on the elder scrolls lore that -explicitely- states that some races have an advantage in some fields.
And always, lore-loving people like me disagree severely with any such idea.
You mean, like... https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442350/character-background-passivesHowever these are more "background" than actual racial abilities.
And yeah, that is -my- take on the problem.
An idea to -add- more (and freely selectable) passives to the existing system that play -with- the lore instead of throwing the lore out and letting people cherry-pick "racial" passives.
How this can be anti-lore? Have u never seen nord mage among NPC? i saw a lot if it, why can't nord have an option to get 7% more of frost damage like dunmers do with fire? It's just an example and there is nothing anti-lore, no one is asking for passives to be super effective, just to make peoples race pick not so obviousEdited by LovesCoffee on October 29, 2018 12:07PM0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Why do people always make a case that just because a nord chooses to be a mage, they must have been trading their cold resistance racial passive for magica support??? Did all the argonian mages trade their webbed toes and gills for more magica? Did those bosmer spinners trade their sneakyness for magica? Did those dunmer achlander wardens trade their fire resistance for something else?LovesCoffee wrote: »How this can be anti-lore? Have u never seen nord mage among NPC...
No, they all became what they are -despite- their racial passives not being optimal for that role.
Shalidor is not a notable archmage becuse he traded his passives for more magica, he is a notable archmage because he reached those magical heights -despite- being a nord and not an altmer. Noone cares about altmer archmages, those are a dime a dozend throughout tamriels history, but toe one nord who managed to claw his way to that height too, that one is -special-! (and likely had thousands of champion points! )
But the lore is still the lore. it still contains lines like "The Altmer are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races..." or "Redguards are the most naturally talented warriors in Tamriel." in the racial descriptions.
...
Of course, -how- that lore has been depicted varied widely in various TES games. In many it had just been a "leg up" that let them reach a "attribute/skill 100%" ceiling faster.
And I would -love- to see it return to that, instead of the racial passives being a "percentage on top" that leads to the "must be X to play Y" mindset that plagues ESO.
Maybe change all racial attribute perks into pre-assigned attribute points! And bring back softcaps so everyone faces the same ceiling, some races just reach it sooner...
But definitely NOT let people cherry-pick their passives!1 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭I came up with an idea for this on my stream actually.
Im okay with the way the system is and dont see a need to change it personally. But, if they ever did decide to go down this route, my idea would be to leave the passives the way they are, but open up quest lines for the various races where a member of another race could go and acquire those passives.
For example, if youre a khajiit but want the altmer passives, there will be an altmer NPC that gave a quest line that you have to beat and then your passives will be changed to that of an altmer. Similarly to vampirisim/werewolf, if you wanted to go back to your "racial heritage", you could go to the NPC of your race, pay a gold fee, and you get your old passives back.
Like i said, i like the way the system currently is myself, but if they ever wanted to go the route of changing racial passives, i think this would be a great system.0 -
LovesCoffee✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Why do people always make a case that just because a nord chooses to be a mage, they must have been trading their cold resistance racial passive for magica support??? Did all the argonian mages trade their webbed toes and gills for more magica? Did those bosmer spinners trade their sneakyness for magica? Did those dunmer achlander wardens trade their fire resistance for something else?LovesCoffee wrote: »How this can be anti-lore? Have u never seen nord mage among NPC...
No, they all became what they are -despite- their racial passives not being optimal for that role.
Shalidor is not a notable archmage becuse he traded his passives for more magica, he is a notable archmage because he reached those magical heights -despite- being a nord and not an altmer. Noone cares about altmer archmages, those are a dime a dozend throughout tamriels history, but toe one nord who managed to claw his way to that height too, that one is -special-! (and likely had thousands of champion points! )
But the lore is still the lore. it still contains lines like "The Altmer are the most strongly gifted in the arcane arts of all the races..." or "Redguards are the most naturally talented warriors in Tamriel." in the racial descriptions.
...
Of course, -how- that lore has been depicted varied widely in various TES games. In many it had just been a "leg up" that let them reach a "attribute/skill 100%" ceiling faster.
And I would -love- to see it return to that, instead of the racial passives being a "percentage on top" that leads to the "must be X to play Y" mindset that plagues ESO.
Maybe change all racial attribute perks into pre-assigned attribute points! And bring back softcaps so everyone faces the same ceiling, some races just reach it sooner...
But definitely NOT let people cherry-pick their passives!
nobody told about getting rid of theyr frost resistance, they leave it as it is, they could simply remove health and stamina bonus and add magicka regen and amount for example, and remove rugged passive for extra frost damage for example, so this way nord will maintain his lore part anyway, and moreover his current passives fits the most for tank style gameplay (there is a very few tank nords since argonians simply better and rest of cummunity know it). Argonians as a race got awesome passives, if not the best in this game, a lot of people in pvp picking them whatever class just because of theyr triple resources regen thing.
And again, read carefully please, it's not a trade off, it's additional set of passive skills which u could chose instead of current ones, i.e. if u're not planing to play bosmer as stamina class for example, u could pick bosmer-mage passives set, that what i mean, so there is no trades at all, u could keep everything u got now with chance to change it up to your role. That's the reason rest of people prefer redguard for stamdd, sustain issues which his passives fix, now try to sustain by playing altmer stamsorc, that's why there is so limited diversity for many players, they have to pick certain race just because theyr passives so much better than others for certain role. Idea is to give opportunity to any race to be any role without such big difference with BIS races.
If u're pure RP player u don't have to care about race and passives at all, but rest of players do. I know few people who using khajits whatever class and role they're playing, but this not helps them (and to theyr party) when it comes to endgame things. Current system makes people to chose if they really want to try to achieve top level or to play bosmer healer because they like this race and want to heal, but there is very few good static groups who will accept them in such state, that is what spoils part of fun from this game, some people can't play race they like in order to get into good group or be competitive compared to bis racesEdited by LovesCoffee on October 29, 2018 12:52PM0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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...cherry-pick their "racial" passives, I know.LovesCoffee wrote: »nobody told about getting rid of theyr frost resistance, they leave it as it is, they could simply...
That's -exactly- what I dislike.
You say Additional...LovesCoffee wrote: »And again, read carefully please, it's not a trade off, it's additional set of passive skills which u could chose instead of current ones...
"Additional" means "added to something" NOT "instead of something"
What do you think a "trade-off" is, if not "loosing one thing to gain some other thing"??? You trade the "usual" for the "other", instead of keeping the "usual" and adding the "other"! That's why its called a "trade-off"
Do you really think misusing language can win you an argument???
...you could play a seven foot, three hundred pound musclehead bosmer, a black-as-pitch skinned imperial, a golden-furred argonian or a blonde, pale-skinned redguard?LovesCoffee wrote: »If u're pure RP player u don't have to care about race and passives at all...
Because that is basically what you are saying here.
And I say, those things would be as far out of the "racial template" as would cherry-picking passives.
Indeed.LovesCoffee wrote: »Current system makes people to chose if they really want to try to achieve top level or to play bosmer healer because they like this race and want to heal, but there is very few good static groups who will accept them in such state, that is what spoils part of fun from this game, some people can't play race they like in order to get into good group or be competitive compared to bis races
And I like this as little as anyone.
And so I came up with an alternate idea where you do really get -additional- passives that you -can- freely select without messing up the "racial" lore because "character background/upbringing" which is not depicted in the game system at this point.
Not "instead of the current ones", but "in addition to the current ones". And also some ideas as to migrate "the current ones" to make them have less impact in the endgame... all -without- messing up any lore! 1 -
Benemime✭✭✭✭Anything but the current racial passives, I hate this. It favors high elves for magicka and I refuse to play with a elf but i'm losing like 14% of dps because of this.
IMO racial passives are a very subtle form of racism, lore won't be broken if there is more freedom with "racial passives" (or something else that isn't 'race' related, this is a MMORPG, not a singleplayer game), lore won't be broken because altmers would still be known as magicka foward and redguards as swordsmen, because of their culture. But you can't just give warrior passives to a mage redguard that never trained to be a warrior and spent their whole life studying and using magic.Edited by Benemime on October 29, 2018 2:32PM1 -
ATomiX96✭✭✭✭✭
✭nah race passives are kinda bound to the lore, you'd upset all of the lorefriends if you gave 3 options and BiS races would still exist... what they should do IMO (WARNING: PERSONAL OPINION AHEAD) is just lower down the benefits you get from passives so the difference isnt as big as it is right now.1 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭In my opinion the current racial passive system is ok but it has too large an effect on end game for the first decision a new player makes. It would also be helpful if passive effects were clearly described in the race selection screen.0 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭Need to sell some race token change so people can re roll redguard, high elf, argonian.
the rest is abandoned.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Based on Zos' words and actions it seems like OP's idea will not be accepted.
When Zos originally mentioned race change they suggested the character would keep their appearance and merely choose the passives for a different race.
Clearly Zos abandoned this idea and stuck with racial passives being tied to the racial appearance.
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Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah. I decided to play a Khajiit, and THEN I chose my class, I wanted to play a sorcerer. I figured out throughout the years how to play this combination the most efficiently.phaneub17_ESO wrote: »there's no reason to base your choices on race when picking a class.In my opinion the current racial passive system is ok but it has too large an effect on end game for the first decision a new player makes. It would also be helpful if passive effects were clearly described in the race selection screen.
In my opinion, racial passives should only be additives and not multiplicative --> Flat values instead of a percentage of the base values.
For exemple:
Khajiit get +8% critical chances, it's a flat value, weither you're at 20% crit or 50% crit, you get the same bonus --> Additive. Or is it multiplicative? Is my life a lie?
Altmers get +10% max magicka, it's the same as multiplying their base magicka pool by 1.1, the more magicka you have, the more potent this bonus gets --> Multiplicative.
I'm not for nerfing passives, but I feel like they are either very powerful or totally useless depending on the build you choose to play. I don't want a Nord to be able to reach the same magicka pool an Altmer can. But I'd like to invest less in survivability and more in damage, because I should have an higher base health.
Edited by Elwendryll on October 29, 2018 3:32PMPC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually, that is -exactly- what "racial" means.But you can't just give warrior passives to a mage redguard that never trained to be a warrior and spent their whole life studying and using magic.
What you are saying is "You cannot give swimming speed advantage to an argonian who grew up in alik'r and never hopped into water just because they inherited gills and webbed toes from their marsh-borne ancestors" - which would be a little silly, right? They would -still- have those advantages, even if they never learend how to swim... just like a redguard would -still- have the generations of cultural selection for warrior genes even if they never ever pick up a curved sword but a wizards staff instead! Just like an altmer would -still- have all that "magic high elf blood" that comes from generations upon generations of substance abu... no, wait, that was another high elf, from their magical heritage I meant!
The "racial" advantages are just that, -racial- not individual. Not every representative of the race may have them to the same extent, just like not everyone is forced to put skill points into those passives. But those are the advantages persons of that race are -genetically- disposited towards... background doesn't figure into it, because they are -racial-!
That's why I always come up with "Background Passives" that -would- be dependent on the question of how someone spent their youth - training as warrior or studying magic!
And why I suggest to remove the "percentage on top" mechanic from -any- racial perks, and stack it to those "background passives" exclusively! Not neccessarily in exactly the way I described in my idea, that was just a outline, but following the same concept!2 -
LovesCoffee✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
...cherry-pick their "racial" passives, I know.LovesCoffee wrote: »nobody told about getting rid of theyr frost resistance, they leave it as it is, they could simply...
That's -exactly- what I dislike.
You say Additional...LovesCoffee wrote: »And again, read carefully please, it's not a trade off, it's additional set of passive skills which u could chose instead of current ones...
"Additional" means "added to something" NOT "instead of something"
What do you think a "trade-off" is, if not "loosing one thing to gain some other thing"??? You trade the "usual" for the "other", instead of keeping the "usual" and adding the "other"! That's why its called a "trade-off"
Do you really think misusing language can win you an argument???
...you could play a seven foot, three hundred pound musclehead bosmer, a black-as-pitch skinned imperial, a golden-furred argonian or a blonde, pale-skinned redguard?LovesCoffee wrote: »If u're pure RP player u don't have to care about race and passives at all...
Because that is basically what you are saying here.
And I say, those things would be as far out of the "racial template" as would cherry-picking passives.
Indeed.LovesCoffee wrote: »Current system makes people to chose if they really want to try to achieve top level or to play bosmer healer because they like this race and want to heal, but there is very few good static groups who will accept them in such state, that is what spoils part of fun from this game, some people can't play race they like in order to get into good group or be competitive compared to bis races
And I like this as little as anyone.
And so I came up with an alternate idea where you do really get -additional- passives that you -can- freely select without messing up the "racial" lore because "character background/upbringing" which is not depicted in the game system at this point.
Not "instead of the current ones", but "in addition to the current ones". And also some ideas as to migrate "the current ones" to make them have less impact in the endgame... all -without- messing up any lore!
whatever we like or not, current racial passives system is not something that makes this game better, i hope zos will do something about it watching our opinions0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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That one we can agree on!LovesCoffee wrote: »whatever we like or not, current racial passives system is not something that makes this game better, i hope zos will do something about it watching our opinions
The "percentage on top" mechanic is far too "must be this to play that" elitism furthering... like I always say, I would very much prefer the "racial passives" for attributes come as pre-assigned skill points towards a shared softcap ceiling... that way -everyone- can get there, some races just need less skill points spent for them to reach the goal and can assign those elsewhere... while other races might have a advantages elsewhere and can spend those skill points there. Or whatever, just so that with enough effort, each can reach the same heights, and not some get a bonus on top...
Another things attribute softcaps would be good for is make hybrid builds viable again, and make the whole game experience more fun by making super-high-killpower an unreachable goal... all things I too would approve of.
Oh, well. Maybe someday...0