FAKE TANKS in dungeon finder

Shadow_Viper_vX · October 2018

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

Shadow_Viper_vX wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps. There are bad dps, but no fake dps.

The term fake dps seems to be thrown around as some sort of justification for being a fake tank. Yet such a thing simply doesn’t exist.

Of course it does. They should add an "other" option to the group finder so that people who get out-dpsed by a healer or a tank can apply for the right role.

I'm pugging very regularly as a tank/ healer, and most pug "DPS" players hardly reach 10k in boss fights.

Or you could try losing the toxic/elitist attitude...

That'd probably be the most helpful

If you pug with a DD who deals 2k of DPS and answers when asked about it *shut up its my first char b...*, who is the toxic one?

Problem is, the fake DPSes refuse to L2P.

You should probably try using the advice you quoted as well...

FakeFox · October 2018

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

The healer seems to know what he's doing. On the first add pack, he casts Elemental Drain.

Really setting the bar high here. lol

But jokes aside. I think the best solution is to get rid of this matchmaking type of dungeon browser and replace it with a group browser where players can list their groups with a description. Guild Wars 2 has exactly that and it works perfectly. Everyone can run in exactly the group he wants, there is no endless waiting, buggy matchmaking or playing with people you don't want to play with.

mairwen85 · October 2018

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Monsieur wrote: »

There is no such thing as fake dps. There are bad dps, but no fake dps.

The term fake dps seems to be thrown around as some sort of justification for being a fake tank. Yet such a thing simply doesn’t exist.

I also think people who light attack only are fake dps, because they know full well that they should be using skills. It's one thing to have a bad or no rotation, it's another to not have any skill usage at all.

Uhm... I was thrown out of a pug recently for this assumption. Was using elemental weapon. It's a bit of a clunky self buff that embues your light attacks with bonus elemental dmg. Despite surge, ew > la x5 rotation hitting consistently for 21k on each light attack (and applying stack able status affects), the tank spat into group chat 'use some skills, sh!tty dps'. So I threw down some dots (despite other dps already doing this, and only this), and returned to ew rotation... Vote to kick passed... Oh well... Sometimes what you think you see, and what is actually happening are not the same thing.

SydneyGrey · October 2018

I had a tank today who was running around all over the dungeon like a chicken with its head cut off. I was the healer ... I'd throw down an area-of-effect heal, and he'd run right out of it, dragging the boss with him. (At least he was taunting, I guess I should be grateful for that much ...)
Maybe he wasn't a fake tank so much as just a bad one. If you're the tank, please keep the boss in one spot instead of running around everywhere, please. This was a normal non-DLC dungeon, too, so a tank should have been able to take a full-on hit by the bosses without having to run.

That was still better than the genuinely fake tank I came across a few days ago, who didn't even have a taunt. The bosses were attacking the DPS during the entire dungeon, and I had to heal through that. LOL.

idk · October 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Sleep724 wrote: »

If Zos could make it somehow that a tank is required to slot a taunt for both the search and while doing the dungeon and if they remove the taunt from their bar they are given 2 minutes to put it back and if they don’t in those 2 minutes they are automatically kicked.

As I said above though, no DD build is broken by the removal of one skill. Just place the taunt is slot five on a bar and forget it's there.

You're still a tank in the games eyes but don't need to tank at all.

Turelus speaks the truth.

Turelus wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I dont really understand fake tanks, even in normal dungeons. For the low low price of slotting Inner Fire or one hand and shield and using it and some crowd control, I get a 30 dungeon queue, the boss never runs out of my AOEs, and I'm in control of the speed of the dungeon run because I'm actually playing like a tank while doing DPS. Everyone's happy.

What's not to like about that? All you have to do is slot a taunt and use it.

I think the frustration comes from the ones who don't slot a taunt and can't stay alive when they do.

And with this, just vote kick them. Slot the taunt yourself and keep on truckin'.

weedgenius · October 2018

A thread about people deliberately abusing the queue system by signing up for a role they have no intention of doing to bypass long wait times gets derailed by condescending elitists moaning about people with low DPS. Never change, ESO forums. Never change.

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I had a tank today who was running around all over the dungeon like a chicken with its head cut off. I was the healer ... I'd throw down an area-of-effect heal, and he'd run right out of it, dragging the boss with him. (At least he was taunting, I guess I should be grateful for that much ...)
Maybe he wasn't a fake tank so much as just a bad one. If you're the tank, please keep the boss in one spot instead of running around everywhere, please. This was a normal non-DLC dungeon, too, so a tank should have been able to take a full-on hit by the bosses without having to run.

That was still better than the genuinely fake tank I came across a few days ago, who didn't even have a taunt. The bosses were attacking the DPS during the entire dungeon, and I had to heal through that. LOL.

Lol, hardest bosses in the game are not about “stay and keep in one place”, they ignore taunt for half or the time and jump around battlefield like crazy..

lientier · October 2018

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

And if we kick him, he can instantly queue again and instantly get a group. So we don't.

I dont know if anyone pointed out, but if you get kicked, you still get a 15min timer.

lientier · October 2018

richo262 wrote: »

For Normal Dungeons - A requirement for a sword and board or frost staff to be on at least one of the bars. A taunt has to be present.

well I dont know a normal dungeon where you would need a tank. Maybe some dlc dungeons, but actually no.

idk · October 2018

lientier wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

And if we kick him, he can instantly queue again and instantly get a group. So we don't.

I dont know if anyone pointed out, but if you get kicked, you still get a 15min timer.

Even if they did not just keep kicking them.

Had a fake healer. We kicked him really because they were annoying but still they had no heals. It was a DLC dungeon we got on a random normal and did the vote kick just before the last boss. Queued in case it gave someone their random normal but got the same person. Vote kicked again and cleared with just the 3 of us.

Point is they were very annoyed. Kept rage whispering me for a bit. lol. Vote kicking the fake tank or healer should be done. It is almost pointless to qq here in the forums if not trying to vote kick the fake tank to begin with.

lientier · October 2018

lientier wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

And if we kick him, he can instantly queue again and instantly get a group. So we don't.

I dont know if anyone pointed out, but if you get kicked, you still get a 15min timer.

apparently I havent been kicked in a while, forget I wrote this XD

mairwen85 · October 2018

Abusing the system is a big issue... but not just for 'fake' tanks. As someone else said, you also get 'fake' healers. You also get glory boys (and girls) who want to show off how awesome they are to the detriment of the group . The last one being a side effect off random group matchmaking, and not something we can really address in the dungeon finder tool, but the core issue is that the system is being abused because waiting is agonizing for a dps. I've said this elsewhere, maybe some matchmaking options in the finder would be the best solution, you could queue with multiple roles, or tick a box for your preferred configuration (e.g. 4x dps, 3xdps + 1x healer, etc.) with the default being the full roles configuration -- that would surely fix the queues for everyone?

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I had a tank today who was running around all over the dungeon like a chicken with its head cut off. I was the healer ... I'd throw down an area-of-effect heal, and he'd run right out of it, dragging the boss with him. (At least he was taunting, I guess I should be grateful for that much ...)
Maybe he wasn't a fake tank so much as just a bad one. If you're the tank, please keep the boss in one spot instead of running around everywhere, please. This was a normal non-DLC dungeon, too, so a tank should have been able to take a full-on hit by the bosses without having to run.

That was still better than the genuinely fake tank I came across a few days ago, who didn't even have a taunt. The bosses were attacking the DPS during the entire dungeon, and I had to heal through that. LOL.

Lol, hardest bosses in the game are not about “stay and keep in one place”, they ignore taunt for half or the time and jump around battlefield like crazy..

Unfortunately, bad tanks/healers/dps are part of the risk when using the dungeon finder... sigh... we had a good run of CoH2 a few weeks back, every boss burnt down in under 2 minutes, only deaths were on Mezeluth (bad timing on the roll dodge of that ground aoe) -- but then on Nerien'eth, everything changed, the tank decided to aggro the adds and drag them around the place, repeatedly using the quick chat 'attack the boss'. All I could do was run away, throwing down dots behind me and spam dark conversion, healer goes down, 2nd Dps (as logic would dictate) targets the adds on the tank, tank drags them away -- ultimately everyone but the tank is dead; healer drops out, but myself and the nightblade, not wanting to drop and be penalized for 15 minutes and then wait another 30mins to run the dungeon again, had to stay dead and watch the tank tickle everything to death for about 20mins. It irked me because we could have burnt the adds in seconds and finished that boss in a few minutes -- the guy knew what we could do, had been there all the way through the dungeon. It made no sense. But, like I said, not a fake tank, not even a bad one, just some weird twist of asbo mentality at the end(!).

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

lientier wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

For Normal Dungeons - A requirement for a sword and board or frost staff to be on at least one of the bars. A taunt has to be present.

well I dont know a normal dungeon where you would need a tank. Maybe some dlc dungeons, but actually no.

Go to MHK without tank

ok, 4 cp810 dps flawless conquerors probably will do

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

idk wrote: »

lientier wrote: »

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

And if we kick him, he can instantly queue again and instantly get a group. So we don't.

I dont know if anyone pointed out, but if you get kicked, you still get a 15min timer.

Even if they did not just keep kicking them.

Had a fake healer. We kicked him really because they were annoying but still they had no heals. It was a DLC dungeon we got on a random normal and did the vote kick just before the last boss. Queued in case it gave someone their random normal but got the same person. Vote kicked again and cleared with just the 3 of us.

Point is they were very annoyed. Kept rage whispering me for a bit. lol. Vote kicking the fake tank or healer should be done. It is almost pointless to qq here in the forums if not trying to vote kick the fake tank to begin with.

There is something unusual fake-dps activity in vets during event, so I just measure how long it takes to kill couple of mob groups, if it takes more then 7-8 seconds (mobs clawed and leashed together), i kick all dps by leaving.

mocap · October 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

group browser where players can list their groups with a description. Everyone can run in exactly the group he wants

Agree. Overwatch also has it and it works absolutely fine. Probably never happend though. You know, ZOS can't fix loading screens like ages, they still can't fix "Someone declined" BS in PC/EU group finder (this stupid bug can appear even with full premade group lol). And you (and me) want GROUP BROWSER...

As someone said: "idunno guys, my crown store works fine and ESO+ sub payment proceed without problems!" )

shiningforce · October 2018

[quote="

Fake dps is one that slots and ice staff and constantly taunts for no reason and doesn't try to do anything else but take aggro, which I have seen.

I also think people who light attack only are fake dps, because they know full well that they should be using skills. It's one thing to have a bad or no rotation, it's another to not have any skill usage at all.[/quote]

Omg this ^... I have been trying to tank in dungeons on normal every so often, just to help people out and get random pugs whom use Ice staffs all the time, they keep grabbing agro then wondering why they are dying or just blame me, I explain the situation and a lot just tell me its not true lol. I don't blame them, being an Ice sorcerer sounds cool, unfortunately its not for dpsing. (honestly i could do without ice staff tanking, not many ppl do it that i've personally seen anyhow)

shiningforce · October 2018

This is probably the 8th thread I have read in two weeks on fake tanks in pug groups. You're 100% its a major problem.

I would like some kind of fix to this, for example if you dont have a taunt skill in your bar then you can't que as a tank for 1 example.

Nilarynpaw · October 2018

To be honest, I read about this problem earlier on the forums before I experienced it in reality. I came back to play ESO again after a few months break, and before I left, I haven't met any so-called fake tanks in-game, though I always used dungeon finder. For a week or two after I came back, I didn't even set my foot in any dungeons, but then I started doing pledges on my healer main, and then I started meeting with these "tanks". To be honest, that's why I stopped healing and decided to level up a dps alt, and focusing on questing and crafting, despite I enjoyed running random dungeons very much. But it is very disappointing when at the beginning of the dungeon I see that the "tank" has even less hp than me... It's not such a thing in normal dungeons, but when it happened on Veteran too, and mobs and bosses were chasing everyone but the "tank" who started running (not kiting!) away of everything, then I gave it up.

Since I started playing on a dps character I also noticed there are "fake damage dealers" and "fake healers" as well... But it's not so common.

I understand that it's frustrating to wait for long minutes, hours to get in a dungeon but come on...

FakeFox wrote: »

group browser where players can list their groups with a description. [...] Everyone can run in exactly the group he wants, there is no endless waiting, buggy matchmaking or playing with people you don't want to play with.

This. ^
This would be a very welcoming change, and it would make easier people to do pledges, getting gear from specific dungeons, etc. It could be even used to help create groups for trials, unless it becomes something cancer like in WoW... Like for a normal Antorus raid in Legion: "360+ link curve have multiple kills on bosses even on mythic bis legendaries foodflasketc." says the leader who is the most undergeared person in the group. Of course, I'm aware of that ESO works differently and gearing is different also, and the community is better I think. So I think this may work better here.

Nilarynpaw · October 2018

shiningforce wrote: »

This is probably the 8th thread I have read in two weeks on fake tanks in pug groups. You're 100% its a major problem.

I would like some kind of fix to this, for example if you dont have a taunt skill in your bar then you can't que as a tank for 1 example.

This sounds nice and easy, but having taunt slotted on skill bar doesn't worth anything if the player doesn't use it.
I've spent more than an hour in Imperial City Prison two days ago, because the tank (who seemed to be a tank, having decent hp and so on) was the last person who walked in the rooms and was keep running AWAY (not kiting!) from anything. It caused us some wipes and I felt like I'm gonna tear my hair out from my head.

Well... I wonder what would people say when healers start to NOT healing at all, just running higgledy-piggledy through the dungeon like poisoned rats.

I know there are these kind of people too, but it's not that common like fake tanks.
It's just not fair... not right.

Another thing I was wondering about... how about giving extra rewards for using the dungeon finder as a specific role? No, not for tanks and healers, because they have like insta queue. But for the damage dealers, to give them a feeling like "it's worth waiting". I know we get extra xp and items, but still.

CruelCult · October 2018

Well on normal dungeons tanks are not so important.. Of course if you are 300+ cp
Anyway, I have theese guys too.

Xarc · October 2018

fake tanks... you mean, the guy with 17k health who accidentally taunt the boss and who is runing like a rabbit in circle in the room, making the rest of the group moving too, which makes the dps impossible and the heal harder ?

Yeah, we see that.
But it's because the community loves to play as DD.
And TANKING is a real job. So, tanks are hard to find.

People want to play a random dungeon, they can't find a tank, so they tag as tank and they do ***.
Is that zenimax's fault or community's fault ?

Nilarynpaw · October 2018

Xarcus wrote: »

fake tanks... you mean, the guy with 17k health who accidentally taunt the boss and who is runing like a rabbit in circle in the room, making the rest of the group moving too, which makes the dps impossible and the heal harder ?

Exactly, yes! Oh my god, I laughed out loud so hard on this.

Xarcus wrote: »

Yeah, we see that.
But it's because the community loves to play as DD.
And TANKING is a real job. So, tanks are hard to find.

People want to play a random dungeon, they can't find a tank, so they tag as tank and they do ***.
Is that zenimax's fault or community's fault ?

Tanking is a hard job, I agree.

And no,of course it's not Zenimax's fault, it's rather the fault of some players of the community.

Gargath · October 2018

lientier wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

For Normal Dungeons - A requirement for a sword and board or frost staff to be on at least one of the bars. A taunt has to be present.

well I dont know a normal dungeon where you would need a tank. Maybe some dlc dungeons, but actually no.

If you are a pro, then yes, but in a pug, there are many newbies, they don't know what to do, and need a real tank even in normal dungeons. No matter how easy it is, they can be easily killed just by standing stupid in red. I saw it many times.

If tanks are a minority, ZOS should encourage people to choose that role, maybe by giving us additional rewards after group activity is completed. Like a pack of gold in return

.

Xarc · October 2018

Gargath wrote: »

If tanks are a minority, ZOS should encourage people to choose that role, maybe by giving us additional rewards after group activity is completed. Like a pack of gold in return .

I dont know, maybe this kind of idea would be a way to encourage fake tanks ...

Nilarynpaw · October 2018

Gargath wrote: »

If tanks are a minority, ZOS should encourage people to choose that role, maybe by giving us additional rewards after group activity is completed. Like a pack of gold in return .

It is not a bad idea, but fake tanks also would be able to claim that reward as well...

MartiniDaniels · October 2018

Instant queue is best tank reward I think

and fakes are already claiming it

Greysson · October 2018

Gargath wrote: »

If tanks are a minority, ZOS should encourage people to choose that role, maybe by giving us additional rewards after group activity is completed. Like a pack of gold in return .

Or make playing a tank more enjoyable. I like to tank, but in this game, tanking is either boring or hard work, depending on the content. Also solo play is anoying if you do not want to respec constantly.

Gargath · October 2018

Xarcus wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

If tanks are a minority, ZOS should encourage people to choose that role, maybe by giving us additional rewards after group activity is completed. Like a pack of gold in return .

I dont know, maybe this kind of idea would be a way to encourage fake tanks ...

Indeed I was thinking about ppl exploiting it, so maybe a safety mechanic could be implemented. For example:
"you must block x points of damage in entire run to be able to claim a tank reward" (that x points should be impossible to achieve for anyone who hasn't either sword and board or frost staff) /and/
"you must have slotted a taunt ability or frost staff inside a dungeon area and use it to taunt at least once at every boss to claim a tank reward"

or some others, I'm not an expert

.

Xarc · October 2018

Gargath wrote: »

Indeed I was thinking about ppl exploiting it, so maybe a safety mechanic could be implemented. For example:
"you must block x points of damage in entire run to be able to claim a tank reward"

great idea, like medals in battlegrounds.
Would be nice for all roles, points for healing, for amount of damages done, damage blocked, and give some rewards, yes

ghwaite · October 2018

Fake DD's with low dps annoy me more.