Should ZOS bring out a fast balance change patch to undo the last combat changes?

Zer0oo · October 2018

The last big update made PvP extrem unplayable if you did not run in a zerg.
It introduced more broken combos e.g. enchantments
Made pointless nerfs to shields with the hp cap
Slaughtered all sources of movement speed which made being outnumbered even harder since you can not kite anymore
..

Undo it?

Edit: It seems to be some kind of misconception here. I do not ask for them to rollback the patch but want the opinion of the community if they would like a fast patch changing the combat to before the last update. While putting the combat changes back to pts for further improvements.

Vapirko · October 2018

It’s not that the whole thing needs to be reversed it’s that ZOS has gone and made big sweeping changes per usual. Shields would have been brought in line with a cap or crit damage but both is probably over kill. They could have reduced speed pot duration by 10 seconds and nerfed swift instead of trashing both of them completely, nerfing expedition duration and nerfing snare removal skills. The changes were needed just nowhere to the extent they were made. But that’s ZOS’ signature move.

Turelus · October 2018

They need to address the enchantments issue, sooner than later would be good.

Otherwise I don't think ZOS will roll back any changes, they made the ones they wanted whether we like them or not.

ezio45 · October 2018

Yes

including the ones to

Shields
overload
boundless
magden wings
dk (dont even know what your mad about dk's dont even know what they nerfed but I got you *fist bump*)
nightblade

therift · October 2018

No

No such thing as a 'fast balance change'

And this isn't the first time Zenimax has introduced changes that were broadly unpopular, nor the second, nor even the third.

Be happy that the shield cast time was reverted during public testing. We're going to have to ride this one out.

Zer0oo · October 2018

Yes

Turelus wrote: »

They need to address the enchantments issue, sooner than later would be good.

Otherwise I don't think ZOS will roll back any changes, they made the ones they wanted whether we like them or not.

A rollback would have been the fastest and easiest solution to all the new problems they introduced with this patch.

Yes this game really needs balance updates and was lacking of them since morrowind but all of the refused to publish them independent of content updates. So it ends up with some really raw ideas that will just get implemented just very poorly without much testing.

PTS:
first -second week: any ideas for nerfs?
third week: Did your nerf create a 30+ page forum rage? If not it is ready for live
forth week: some last bug fixes and nerfs

therift · October 2018

No

I wish I could point to the thread where Zenimax addressed the idea of a 'rollback', but in essence the official answer was

"We did it once, it created enormous problems, so we're never doing that again"

So you can scratch 'rollback' off your list along with 'fast balance change'.

I wish it were otherwise.

Zardayne · October 2018

Yes

ezio45 wrote: »

including the ones to

Shields
overload
boundless
magden wings
dk (dont even know what your mad about dk's dont even know what they nerfed but I got you *fist bump*)
nightblade

Don't forget:
30% Bear nerf
Increased cost of swarm (while still having to double cast it)
Arctic Blast change

TheValar85 · October 2018

Yes

Zardayne wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

including the ones to

Shields
overload
boundless
magden wings
dk (dont even know what your mad about dk's dont even know what they nerfed but I got you *fist bump*)
nightblade

Don't forget:
30% Bear nerf
Increased cost of swarm (while still having to double cast it)
Arctic Blast change

Yes please!

Latios · October 2018

Yes

I say yes for the cheese enchant builds, but not for all changes.

KaiDynasty · October 2018

Yes

Just undo the changes on what's currently broken (enchantments)

Ertosi · October 2018

No

The need for bug fixes and balance changes after any big patch is a normal part of the process.

Yes, there are some parts of the new mechanics that should be addressed soon, but again its normal and expected, and certainly does not deserve this "sky is falling" overreaction so many have.

Hence why I vote No as "Should ZOS bring out a fast balance change patch to undo the last combat changes?" is a gross overreaction. It certainly shouldn't be undone as a whole, but merits the usual tweaks.

Changes happen. Bugs happen. Things get broke; things get fixed. Those who don't comprehend this process should stick to games which are no longer in active development.

Tandor · October 2018

No

One of the biggest problems with rollbacks is that there was a single patch incorporating both the Murkmire DLC and the base game changes, so if they were to rollback the combat changes they'd be undoing Murkmire along with all the associated skill, achievement, and skyshard etc updates that people have earned. That wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't go down well not least with those subscribers whose payments include DLC content and not all of whom by any means have any concerns at the moment anyway.

Talking of which, it's never a good idea to reverse changes that only impact on some of the players, only a subset of whom are critical of those changes in the first place.

Lastly, like it or not but it needs to be the developers who run the game and not the players. Players can help to influence and shape the game and they can vote with their feet (in a B2P game that's more impactful than simply suspending a subscription while remaining active in the game and on the forum), but the developers need to make the decisions on the structure of the game otherwise we'd be in a frightful mess with different players clamoring for different things and the developers not knowing whether they were coming or going.

Some may argue that the game is already in a frightful mess anyway but that's a minority view judging by the low level of complaints (less than with the sustain changes when Morrowind launched in my perception) and the way to address those complaints is by fixing several obvious bugs and providing some better communication over the remaining changes. The fact that some people don't like the changes doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad for the game and must be reversed. ZOS need to explain their reasoning for some of the changes a bit better, as well as giving more information about the things they regard as bugs and the likely arrangements for fixing them, including a better time estimate than "in a future incremental patch" or some such wording.

Kikke · October 2018

Yes

Tandor wrote: »

One of the biggest problems with rollbacks is that there was a single patch incorporating both the Murkmire DLC and the base game changes, so if they were to rollback the combat changes they'd be undoing Murkmire along with all the associated skill, achievement, and skyshard etc updates that people have earned. That wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't go down well not least with those subscribers whose payments include DLC content and not all of whom by any means have any concerns at the moment anyway.

Talking of which, it's never a good idea to reverse changes that only impact on some of the players, only a subset of whom are critical of those changes in the first place.

Lastly, like it or not but it needs to be the developers who run the game and not the players. Players can help to influence and shape the game and they can vote with their feet (in a B2P game that's more impactful than simply suspending a subscription while remaining active in the game and on the forum), but the developers need to make the decisions on the structure of the game otherwise we'd be in a frightful mess with different players clamoring for different things and the developers not knowing whether they were coming or going.

Some may argue that the game is already in a frightful mess anyway but that's a minority view judging by the low level of complaints (less than with the sustain changes when Morrowind launched in my perception) and the way to address those complaints is by fixing several obvious bugs and providing some better communication over the remaining changes. The fact that some people don't like the changes doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad for the game and must be reversed. ZOS need to explain their reasoning for some of the changes a bit better, as well as giving more information about the things they regard as bugs and the likely arrangements for fixing them, including a better time estimate than "in a future incremental patch" or some such wording.

You do know we are the one putting food on the table for ZOS right?

Kikke · October 2018

Yes

And yes, the sustain changes made by morowind did make many quit.

Tandor · October 2018

No

kikkehs wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

One of the biggest problems with rollbacks is that there was a single patch incorporating both the Murkmire DLC and the base game changes, so if they were to rollback the combat changes they'd be undoing Murkmire along with all the associated skill, achievement, and skyshard etc updates that people have earned. That wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't go down well not least with those subscribers whose payments include DLC content and not all of whom by any means have any concerns at the moment anyway.

Talking of which, it's never a good idea to reverse changes that only impact on some of the players, only a subset of whom are critical of those changes in the first place.

Lastly, like it or not but it needs to be the developers who run the game and not the players. Players can help to influence and shape the game and they can vote with their feet (in a B2P game that's more impactful than simply suspending a subscription while remaining active in the game and on the forum), but the developers need to make the decisions on the structure of the game otherwise we'd be in a frightful mess with different players clamoring for different things and the developers not knowing whether they were coming or going.

Some may argue that the game is already in a frightful mess anyway but that's a minority view judging by the low level of complaints (less than with the sustain changes when Morrowind launched in my perception) and the way to address those complaints is by fixing several obvious bugs and providing some better communication over the remaining changes. The fact that some people don't like the changes doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad for the game and must be reversed. ZOS need to explain their reasoning for some of the changes a bit better, as well as giving more information about the things they regard as bugs and the likely arrangements for fixing them, including a better time estimate than "in a future incremental patch" or some such wording.

You do know we are the one putting food on the table for ZOS right?

The "I pay your wages" argument is never a winning one, in any walk of life.

Acrolas · October 2018

No

I feel like the overarching theme of Update 20 was faster combat, slower reset. I feel that was accomplished.

Which does make it likely that the meta-chasers are going to drive the next revisions. So some people probably doomed Torug's by leaping in and cheesing with it instead of appreciating the improved baseline you already have without it.

There has to come a time when we start admitting that ZOS is only trying to resolve the problems we create for ourselves. The poll only shows we still have a ways to go.

Jaraal · October 2018

Yes

Game is broken, but your odds of getting hit by lightning are better than the odds of ZOS listening to players’ complaints and reversing the ridiculous combat/speed changes.

therift · October 2018

No

kikkehs wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

One of the biggest problems with rollbacks is that there was a single patch incorporating both the Murkmire DLC and the base game changes, so if they were to rollback the combat changes they'd be undoing Murkmire along with all the associated skill, achievement, and skyshard etc updates that people have earned. That wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't go down well not least with those subscribers whose payments include DLC content and not all of whom by any means have any concerns at the moment anyway.

Talking of which, it's never a good idea to reverse changes that only impact on some of the players, only a subset of whom are critical of those changes in the first place.

Lastly, like it or not but it needs to be the developers who run the game and not the players. Players can help to influence and shape the game and they can vote with their feet (in a B2P game that's more impactful than simply suspending a subscription while remaining active in the game and on the forum), but the developers need to make the decisions on the structure of the game otherwise we'd be in a frightful mess with different players clamoring for different things and the developers not knowing whether they were coming or going.

Some may argue that the game is already in a frightful mess anyway but that's a minority view judging by the low level of complaints (less than with the sustain changes when Morrowind launched in my perception) and the way to address those complaints is by fixing several obvious bugs and providing some better communication over the remaining changes. The fact that some people don't like the changes doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad for the game and must be reversed. ZOS need to explain their reasoning for some of the changes a bit better, as well as giving more information about the things they regard as bugs and the likely arrangements for fixing them, including a better time estimate than "in a future incremental patch" or some such wording.

You do know we are the one putting food on the table for ZOS right?

No, you are not. Forum complaints are nothing more than a tempest in a teapot. Further, the complaints about Update 20 are minor compared to a couple past Updates.

idk · October 2018

Turelus wrote: »

They need to address the enchantments issue, sooner than later would be good.

Otherwise I don't think ZOS will roll back any changes, they made the ones they wanted whether we like them or not.

Agree. The enchantment issue seems to be performing in an unintended manner.

As for the bulk of the changes that many of us strongly disagree with Zos will likely not change things. A least not so fast as it would be a clear admission of their failures of understanding their how their game plays and listening to reason.

Changes are more likely after a period of time so Zos can save face. They would say it was after seeing the performance of X they choose a different path.

Malthorne · October 2018

I would not be surprised to see ZOS double down in defense of the combat changes they made for Murkmire. This certainly would not be the first time they ignored similar feedback from the community.

Kikke · October 2018

Yes

.

therift wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

One of the biggest problems with rollbacks is that there was a single patch incorporating both the Murkmire DLC and the base game changes, so if they were to rollback the combat changes they'd be undoing Murkmire along with all the associated skill, achievement, and skyshard etc updates that people have earned. That wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't go down well not least with those subscribers whose payments include DLC content and not all of whom by any means have any concerns at the moment anyway.

Talking of which, it's never a good idea to reverse changes that only impact on some of the players, only a subset of whom are critical of those changes in the first place.

Lastly, like it or not but it needs to be the developers who run the game and not the players. Players can help to influence and shape the game and they can vote with their feet (in a B2P game that's more impactful than simply suspending a subscription while remaining active in the game and on the forum), but the developers need to make the decisions on the structure of the game otherwise we'd be in a frightful mess with different players clamoring for different things and the developers not knowing whether they were coming or going.

Some may argue that the game is already in a frightful mess anyway but that's a minority view judging by the low level of complaints (less than with the sustain changes when Morrowind launched in my perception) and the way to address those complaints is by fixing several obvious bugs and providing some better communication over the remaining changes. The fact that some people don't like the changes doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad for the game and must be reversed. ZOS need to explain their reasoning for some of the changes a bit better, as well as giving more information about the things they regard as bugs and the likely arrangements for fixing them, including a better time estimate than "in a future incremental patch" or some such wording.

You do know we are the one putting food on the table for ZOS right?

No, you are not. Forum complaints are nothing more than a tempest in a teapot. Further, the complaints about Update 20 are minor compared to a couple past Updates.

For every one player complaining on the forums you get 100 players that cry in zone chat. So stop thinking like that would be a smart thing. And uf you were playing the game you would know this.

ScardyFox · October 2018

Yes

Yes, this enchantment crap needs to burn in the lowest levels of hell.

therift · October 2018

No

kikkehs wrote: »

.

therift wrote: »

kikkehs wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

One of the biggest problems with rollbacks is that there was a single patch incorporating both the Murkmire DLC and the base game changes, so if they were to rollback the combat changes they'd be undoing Murkmire along with all the associated skill, achievement, and skyshard etc updates that people have earned. That wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't go down well not least with those subscribers whose payments include DLC content and not all of whom by any means have any concerns at the moment anyway.

Talking of which, it's never a good idea to reverse changes that only impact on some of the players, only a subset of whom are critical of those changes in the first place.

Lastly, like it or not but it needs to be the developers who run the game and not the players. Players can help to influence and shape the game and they can vote with their feet (in a B2P game that's more impactful than simply suspending a subscription while remaining active in the game and on the forum), but the developers need to make the decisions on the structure of the game otherwise we'd be in a frightful mess with different players clamoring for different things and the developers not knowing whether they were coming or going.

Some may argue that the game is already in a frightful mess anyway but that's a minority view judging by the low level of complaints (less than with the sustain changes when Morrowind launched in my perception) and the way to address those complaints is by fixing several obvious bugs and providing some better communication over the remaining changes. The fact that some people don't like the changes doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad for the game and must be reversed. ZOS need to explain their reasoning for some of the changes a bit better, as well as giving more information about the things they regard as bugs and the likely arrangements for fixing them, including a better time estimate than "in a future incremental patch" or some such wording.

You do know we are the one putting food on the table for ZOS right?

No, you are not. Forum complaints are nothing more than a tempest in a teapot. Further, the complaints about Update 20 are minor compared to a couple past Updates.

For every one player complaining on the forums you get 100 players that cry in zone chat. So stop thinking like that would be a smart thing. And uf you were playing the game you would know this.

I play the game. Quit thinking you're special. After observing these Forum tirades for years, I am merely providing you with historical facts. It is immaterial whether you like it or not.

ScardyFox · October 2018

Yes

Acrolas wrote: »

There has to come a time when we start admitting that ZOS is only trying to resolve the problems we create for ourselves.

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...

Acrolas · October 2018

No

ScardyFox wrote: »

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you...

No need. I'm not here to *** ride off bad popular opinions so I have no need for a traffic increase.

DirkRavenclaw · October 2018

No

After Testing Im actually happy, so many people called about how easy this Game is, ZOS responded, before i could solo Group Dungeons on my Sorc and read a Book in the same time, now i have to actually pay attention, my Sorc takes more Damage, but he gives more Damage also. Please dont change it

ScardyFox · October 2018

Yes

Acrolas wrote: »

No need. I'm not here to *** ride off bad popular opinions so I have no need for a traffic increase.

Ohhhh, is that what people are doing. Geez, I had no idea that coming up with the absurdity of glyphgate was so trend setting. I'll make sure not to be a conformist next time around so I can embrace the next horrifically bad idea ZoS spills over the community.

Who knew being a contrarian was so liberating.

Cously · October 2018

No

Keep it until next DLC then address what's not working. If you didn't realize yet, the PTS starts when the DLC is launched on live server. We are the PTS, that's why *** keeps getting changed and turned upside down like we are in Alpha phase of figuring out how combat works instead of minor adjustments over the life of the MMO.

ezio45 · October 2018

Yes

Tandor wrote: »

One of the biggest problems with rollbacks is that there was a single patch incorporating both the Murkmire DLC and the base game changes, so if they were to rollback the combat changes they'd be undoing Murkmire along with all the associated skill, achievement, and skyshard etc updates that people have earned. That wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't go down well not least with those subscribers whose payments include DLC content and not all of whom by any means have any concerns at the moment anyway.

Talking of which, it's never a good idea to reverse changes that only impact on some of the players, only a subset of whom are critical of those changes in the first place.

Lastly, like it or not but it needs to be the developers who run the game and not the players. Players can help to influence and shape the game and they can vote with their feet (in a B2P game that's more impactful than simply suspending a subscription while remaining active in the game and on the forum), but the developers need to make the decisions on the structure of the game otherwise we'd be in a frightful mess with different players clamoring for different things and the developers not knowing whether they were coming or going.

Some may argue that the game is already in a frightful mess anyway but that's a minority view judging by the low level of complaints (less than with the sustain changes when Morrowind launched in my perception) and the way to address those complaints is by fixing several obvious bugs and providing some better communication over the remaining changes. The fact that some people don't like the changes doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad for the game and must be reversed. ZOS need to explain their reasoning for some of the changes a bit better, as well as giving more information about the things they regard as bugs and the likely arrangements for fixing them, including a better time estimate than "in a future incremental patch" or some such wording.

ok, the problem with this is the CURRENT developer.... are taking the game in a much different direction that the original developers......

there not improving it, we are not getting, oh this skill is unpopular lets improve it

we are getting a completely new direction for a game we have invested hundreds of days of play time into.

and the worst part is they cant even stick to one direction to drive the game into the ground with, we started like maybe a 20 degree downward angle and morrowind jumped it to lke 45 and now here we are at murkimire with like 90.... and its ABUNDANTLY CLEAR to everyone onboard that the plane is crashing, are we not suppose to be livid????

The fans could make this game better because the changes we want are in line with the game we started playing

zos isnt developing the elder scrolls online that we bought years ago, this game has gotten more and more away from that with every single patch and not for the better. They dont just add new fun zones or make improvements on the original that were needed, hell i would love some improvments. Like a damn trader search option.... instead they are completely overhauling a combat system we liked and classes we again liked, completely KILLING playstyles that were again liked

Gilvoth · October 2018

No

this Game, eso mmo, this forum, eso forum all belongs to Zenimax Studios.
they owe us nothing, and you do not dictate nor tell them how to do with anything in their game.
this thread is quite arrogant and insulting to them.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Should ZOS bring out a fast balance change patch to undo the last combat changes?

Should ZOS bring out a fast balance change patch to undo the last combat changes? 167 votes