Improving Dungeon Finder

Grimm13 · October 2018

Dungeon Finder Normal - add queue choice
No Roles - allows for the fastest queues as takes the first four in line.
Roles - For those that still want a traditional ESO group.

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Veteran Level
Add in a solo instanced qualification unlock for Roles. Simple test of knowing role type mechanics, strategies and abilities. Serves as a gauge for players to know when they are ready to perform roles in vet content. Gives confidence to others that all are capable of basic level vet content. Recap of the test could give basic suggestions for improvements. This would be per character unlock, reason is this proves the character is ready for a Role not just the player.
Some may enjoy testing builds this way as well with a recap system that gave feedback to performance. So having it as re-playable would be good.

I feel that having these improvements would enhance the ESO experience. It allows flexibility in normal dungeons and gives vet level of play some demonstration of skill measurable by a group. There still will be those that just get by or exceeds expectations. It would definitely be an improvement over the toxic attitudes that are currently spawned by the system currently.

I would especially like to hear from the class reps on this. Particularly the DPS, Healing and Tank Reps.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

John_Falstaff · October 2018

I just wanted to remark on the sad, sad, sad side of asking for some test of knowing role, mechanics and strategy. It's a social game. We should be the teachers for the fresh faces, we should be explaining them how to play, we should be the reason they're getting accustomed to vet content. Instead we want to push that off our shoulders and onto some test everyone should pass simply to play the game with us. Are we going too far with replacing parts of our society's functions with some crude automated versions? Maybe if we were better at performing those social functions (instead of kicking a low DPS from a dungeon because he 'wastes our time'), it would give better effect.

I know there are language barriers and there are things people want and do not want to be doing, and so on and so forth. Just thinking aloud here. For players of a social game... we're such a terribly asocial crowd sometimes.

Turelus · October 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I just wanted to remark on the sad, sad, sad side of asking for some test of knowing role, mechanics and strategy. It's a social game. We should be the teachers for the fresh faces, we should be explaining them how to play, we should be the reason they're getting accustomed to vet content. Instead we want to push that off our shoulders and onto some test everyone should pass simply to play the game with us. Are we going too far with replacing parts of our society's functions with some crude automated versions? Maybe if we were better at performing those social functions (instead of kicking a low DPS from a dungeon because he 'wastes our time'), it would give better effect.

I know there are language barriers and there are things people want and do not want to be doing, and so on and so forth. Just thinking aloud here. For players of a social game... we're such a terribly asocial crowd sometimes.

I wish I could give more than one agree.

I really think we as a community need to look at how we interact with new players. Yes there is some pressure on ZOS to have the game explain the mechanics (and they've worked towards that with build advisor) but if the community keeps refusing to help new players, kicking and belittling them for not understanding the game then they're never going to improve.

I understand there are some stubborn and rude people who when offered help or advice are rude and abusive about it, to these ones we do move on and let them learn (if possible) from their own mistakes.

Grimm13 · October 2018

I am offering a reasonable solution for vet level readiness. Currently we have nothing, there's a rising tide of a toxic complaints about how this role or that was destroying their game play.

At some point you either have to shut down the toxic attitudes or give a little with a means test. Currently I do not see things improving as they are going. Something needs to change.

Sorry to be direct but this is how I feel and dancing around the issues at hand solves nothing.

Turelus · October 2018

Grimm13 wrote: »

I am offering a reasonable solution for vet level readiness. Currently we have nothing, there's a rising tide of a toxic complaints about how this role or that was destroying their game play.

At some point you either have to shut down the toxic attitudes or give a little with a means test. Currently I do not see things improving as they are going. Something needs to change.

Sorry to be direct but this is how I feel and dancing around the issues at hand solves nothing.

Even with the test it's not going to stop the toxic people finding ways to be toxic, because they're the ones being the issue.

I am fully open to more ideas to help teach people the games mechanics and expectations of roles without having to watch YouTube so I am not fully against the idea of a test, but let's not pretend that will solve the issue of toxic players.

Agenericname · October 2018

Grimm13 wrote: »

Dungeon Finder Normal - add queue choice
No Roles - allows for the fastest queues as takes the first four in line.
Roles - For those that still want a traditional ESO group.

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Veteran Level
Add in a solo instanced qualification unlock for Roles. Simple test of knowing role type mechanics, strategies and abilities. Serves as a gauge for players to know when they are ready to perform roles in vet content. Gives confidence to others that all are capable of basic level vet content. Recap of the test could give basic suggestions for improvements. This would be per character unlock, reason is this proves the character is ready for a Role not just the player.
Some may enjoy testing builds this way as well with a recap system that gave feedback to performance. So having it as re-playable would be good.

I feel that having these improvements would enhance the ESO experience. It allows flexibility in normal dungeons and gives vet level of play some demonstration of skill measurable by a group. There still will be those that just get by or exceeds expectations. It would definitely be an improvement over the toxic attitudes that are currently spawned by the system currently.

I would especially like to hear from the class reps on this. Particularly the DPS, Healing and Tank Reps.

You can already exude the DLC dungeons. Nobody is forcing them on us, we voluntarily accept that challenge because of the rewards.

The damage threshold for dungeons isnt all that high in most cases. I recently healed a few vet dungeons with a group who's collective DPS was 20k or less. No discord, no help with rotations, just brief explanations of the mechanics.

So where is that standard set? At a point where you can actually complete a dungeon? Many would still be toxic about it simply because it's not the speed they want.

The system itself doesnt cause the "toxic" attitudes. The players do. We have the choice to be understanding, polite, helpful, etc, we choose not to. If we want to fix that, be the change.

I dont have an issue with another queue except that its redundant. We already have that option as well.

Grimm13 · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

simple enough to fix, reduce the awards on the daily random dungeon if you use the exclusion.

Once you have the daily done, your argument for not allowing does not apply. If i say I want to queue for this specific dungeon, then I am still waiting on enough others to do that same one. but if I say yes random but not these then it still would pair groups up faster than it does.

If you are saying that you can select multiple dungeons to queue into, then that's news to me. ZOS would need to educate more people on this feature cause it seems fom comments in forums little know it. That's if it works that way.

pdblake · October 2018

How about a training dungeon?

First time doing a dungeon (I still haven't), it puts you in a training dungeon to show you the ropes. Groups of four first timers led by an NPC with mini bosses with a variety of mechanics, tips from the NPC and, when you all get through alive, an "I survived my first dungeon" achievement.

Or perhaps a status to show your level of confidence, so people know they're dealing with a newbie rather than losing their rag with who they think is just an idiot. Perhaps give newbies immunity to being kicked for their first n amount of dungeons so the elites are forced to work with them.

mairwen85 · October 2018

Maybe some match making options and the option to queue dual role if you can.

Generally all queue set ups assume you want full group (Tank, Healer, 2xDps), but offer options to build group with other configurations.

This way no Dps will be queuing as a Healer/Tank just to get to the front of the queue.
Anyone who wants to speed through can simply select the option 4xDps, or 3xDps with Healer/Tank.

Other configurations would allow 2xTank & 2xHealer, or whatever your preferred grouping might be. Slotting yourself with dual role allows player flexibility against this system.

Could also have the option to specify minimum CP -- or have a global setting to match players within an acceptable experience range (especially for veteran).

DaveMoeDee · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

I would add though that people can already select to not include DLC dungeons by not having access to them. The reason to allow excluding DLC dungeons only is to not remove the ability to filter from people with ESO+. If ZOS wants people to get ESO+, they should avoid any situations where people are penalized for subbing.

There should be no ability to exclude base game dungeons since that is the same situation for all.

And let's tell the full story. If I want to PUG a vet DLC dungeon, I don't want people in the group that can't handle it and only ended up there due to the daily random. I would prefer that they can exclude that dungeon. Everyone wins with the ability to avoid DLC dungeons.

Fleshreaper · October 2018

It's just my opinion and no one cares. While I agree with both sides, to a point, on this. There are some really strange mechanics in this game. I know they are supposed to be trial and error type mechanics. I hate and don't think you should have to go watch a youtube video to be able to learn how to beat a mechanic in game. Some that come to mind right off the top of my head. The impale on the Spider Boss in CoS. How the *** are you supposed to know to wait and dodge roll at the last second? The sixth stage of Maelstrom Arena, having to kite add to the pillars to un-web them. The game is very bad at giving the player clues to solve these puzzle mechanics.

This is for ZoS. And it is only my opinion.

These puzzle mechanics need to have some clue as to how to counter them. And this is where the problem come from. You have a new players to these mechanics trying to learn them, playing with players who have seen them many times. The players that are use to them, get tired and angry at the new players trying to figure out the puzzle mechanics. So, ZoS, you are actually hurting your bottom line with this type of mind set. Keeping new players from seeing content is just going to frustrate them and they will leave. Then as some of the players that have been around longer get bored and/or just move on, the other long time players will have a harder time replacing them. Causing more of them to leave.

So, what to do about!

Regular version of group delves, trials, and arenas, should have some kind of hint system for the puzzle mechanics. Example, on the spider boss in CoS, if you move on the impale, simply state on the death recap screen, Try staying put longer.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Grimm13 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

simple enough to fix, reduce the awards on the daily random dungeon if you use the exclusion.

Once you have the daily done, your argument for not allowing does not apply. If i say I want to queue for this specific dungeon, then I am still waiting on enough others to do that same one. but if I say yes random but not these then it still would pair groups up faster than it does.

If you are saying that you can select multiple dungeons to queue into, then that's news to me. ZOS would need to educate more people on this feature cause it seems fom comments in forums little know it. That's if it works that way.

Yes, you can select multiple dungeons to queue into using the Select Specific Dungeons option in groupfinder. I typically do the 3 pledges just to see what pops first.

zaria · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

This select spesific dungeons also let you select both normal and veteran ones so you can do the dlc pledge in normal and the two other in vet. or you can just add dungeons you have not done yet on character and mark both normal and vet.

No you don't get the xp reward, that is an reward for being willing to fill up any group not something you are entitled to.
Yes I know I also use it for that, so nice to get 3-4 levels for an random normal.

Grimm13 · October 2018

pdblake wrote: »

How about a training dungeon?

First time doing a dungeon (I still haven't), it puts you in a training dungeon to show you the ropes. Groups of four first timers led by an NPC with mini bosses with a variety of mechanics, tips from the NPC and, when you all get through alive, an "I survived my first dungeon" achievement.

Or perhaps a status to show your level of confidence, so people know they're dealing with a newbie rather than losing their rag with who they think is just an idiot. Perhaps give newbies immunity to being kicked for their first n amount of dungeons so the elites are forced to work with them.

When you really look at the Undaunted, it sets the tone of Elitism in ESO. They taunt the newb a bit and say you know nothing in essence come back after you prove yourself in Dungeons.

Instead the Undaunted could be where you could enter a solo, two or four man training dungeon. It would be like a single room dungeon similar to a room in nMA, but teaches what you look for for mechanic clues.

Enter a solo as a healer and you have a npc group that you are healing/ cleansing as they are working the boss and adds.
Tank would be learning crowd control, unlike other games ESO is specific in controlling targeted npcs, not really in aoe cc.

Grimm13 · October 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

simple enough to fix, reduce the awards on the daily random dungeon if you use the exclusion.

Once you have the daily done, your argument for not allowing does not apply. If i say I want to queue for this specific dungeon, then I am still waiting on enough others to do that same one. but if I say yes random but not these then it still would pair groups up faster than it does.

If you are saying that you can select multiple dungeons to queue into, then that's news to me. ZOS would need to educate more people on this feature cause it seems fom comments in forums little know it. That's if it works that way.

Yes, you can select multiple dungeons to queue into using the Select Specific Dungeons option in group finder. I typically do the 3 pledges just to see what pops first.

So that's an education problem that many are missing. I've seen so many threads on complaints that queues are so long when people are trying to go for speed run after speed run an such for example, yet have not seen a suggestions that they could click on a group of specific dungeons to queue into on a limited random.

sorry but I do need to go see this with my own eyes, but this does change a perspective for me.

Agenericname · October 2018

Grimm13 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

simple enough to fix, reduce the awards on the daily random dungeon if you use the exclusion.

Once you have the daily done, your argument for not allowing does not apply. If i say I want to queue for this specific dungeon, then I am still waiting on enough others to do that same one. but if I say yes random but not these then it still would pair groups up faster than it does.

If you are saying that you can select multiple dungeons to queue into, then that's news to me. ZOS would need to educate more people on this feature cause it seems fom comments in forums little know it. That's if it works that way.

Yes, you can select multiple dungeons to queue into using the Select Specific Dungeons option in group finder. I typically do the 3 pledges just to see what pops first.

So that's an education problem that many are missing. I've seen so many threads on complaints that queues are so long when people are trying to go for speed run after speed run an such for example, yet have not seen a suggestions that they could click on a group of specific dungeons to queue into on a limited random.

sorry but I do need to go see this with my own eyes, but this does change a perspective for me.

It comes up quite a bit. The last "separate DLC dungeons" thread that I remember was just a week or so ago. I suggested selecting every dungeon but the DLCs. That's not what most people want, they want the same bonus without the risk the others assume.

Selecting a specific dungeon or group vs random wont help the queue time. In some cases it makes it worse because it limits the choices. If someone wants speed runs, I'm assuming farming runs since organizing achievement runs in RDF is masochism, they would be much better off with a premade group. The selection process doesnt help those folks at all.

VaranisArano · October 2018

Grimm13 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Add ability to exclude dungeons from your queue placement. (Have a phobia, be able to exclude being placed in that dungeon) This will save time for all as no one is added to a dungeon they may drop from. Would allow those that do not want to do a dlc dungeon to avoid those if they choose. Why force a dlc dungeon on people just because they could enter, not all are ready for them even in normal mode.

Its called selecting specific dungeons. You check the ones you want and there's no risk of getting anything harder!

Oh, wait, I presume you want the ability to exclude harder dungeons from the Daily Random Dungeon?

That's a little different, because the Daily Random Dungeon gives extra rewards for the risk of getting a Random Dungeon, maybe easy, maybe hard. And if you don't like the dungeon you get, you can either do it or take the 15 minute penalty, which encourages people to stick around and do the harder dungeons.

simple enough to fix, reduce the awards on the daily random dungeon if you use the exclusion.

Once you have the daily done, your argument for not allowing does not apply. If i say I want to queue for this specific dungeon, then I am still waiting on enough others to do that same one. but if I say yes random but not these then it still would pair groups up faster than it does.

If you are saying that you can select multiple dungeons to queue into, then that's news to me. ZOS would need to educate more people on this feature cause it seems fom comments in forums little know it. That's if it works that way.

Yes, you can select multiple dungeons to queue into using the Select Specific Dungeons option in group finder. I typically do the 3 pledges just to see what pops first.

So that's an education problem that many are missing. I've seen so many threads on complaints that queues are so long when people are trying to go for speed run after speed run an such for example, yet have not seen a suggestions that they could click on a group of specific dungeons to queue into on a limited random.

sorry but I do need to go see this with my own eyes, but this does change a perspective for me.

Well, it doesn't exactly help the queue times, because the queue times are based off the amount of tanks, healers, and DPS.

So if my tank selects specific dungeons, I'll get my dungeon done quickly, because it will pull two DDs from the waiting list to fill my dungeon group. If I'm on a DD, I'll have to wait a long time for a random tank or healer to be matched with me.

But it does help situations where a player knows they can't handle certain content. Like when I'm learning a new class, like my leveling Magblade tank, I can select specific easier dungeons so I dont risk getting ICP or WGT right away at level 45. So as long as players are willing to miss out on the Daily Random Dungeon rewards, selecting specific dungeons in the best way to adjust difficulty.

However, I usually see this paired with a request to get the full rewards from the Daily Random Dungeon while not getting the full risk of ALL the dungeons. Your suggestion of substantially lowering the rewards has some potential, but that would be up to ZOS to decide if its worth it or if it would make it too hard to find group members for DLC dungeons.

Silver_Strider · October 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I just wanted to remark on the sad, sad, sad side of asking for some test of knowing role, mechanics and strategy. It's a social game. We should be the teachers for the fresh faces, we should be explaining them how to play, we should be the reason they're getting accustomed to vet content. Instead we want to push that off our shoulders and onto some test everyone should pass simply to play the game with us. Are we going too far with replacing parts of our society's functions with some crude automated versions? Maybe if we were better at performing those social functions (instead of kicking a low DPS from a dungeon because he 'wastes our time'), it would give better effect.

I know there are language barriers and there are things people want and do not want to be doing, and so on and so forth. Just thinking aloud here. For players of a social game... we're such a terribly asocial crowd sometimes.

It's not really as cut and dry as that though. Some of us tried to help but got called elitist jerks or ignored entirely for it. Can you really blame us for not wanting to help others after countless rejections and back talk for our efforts?

Defilted · October 2018

I would like to see Group finder do the following.

-Normal Dungeons
-Veteran Dungeons
-Normal Trials This needs to be added ASAP.
-Cyro groups

Other things that I think would be cool, though I would not use it as I am a established player with guilds and other players to group with(and do not need to group for mundane character building, but this is just me). Also know all the websites and apps that get me these things( as I have done it over 10 times) and do not need a group to do them, but this is a MMO and people do like to group together even if the activity does not require it.

-Questing groups
-Leveling groups
-Sky Shard hunting groups
-Lore books
-Craglorn questing group?
-Maybe just a general looking to group for the LOL's option. A meet people of Tamriel grouping tool. (Great for new players who do not have already established friends they game with which seems to be a lot of people based on all the forum posts I read about not being able to complete this or that content becasue they do not know anyone)

Yes the lower list can already be done and is already being done(that is what guilds and players groups are for), but for new players this would be really helpful. I play on console so there is no auto navigation for character building. Addons are the answer for all of ZOS's lacking in character building and managing the character.

There are huge areas in the UI for improvement that I would like to see

AcadianPaladin · October 2018

@Grimm13 I agree with your original post - totally! Sure, some details could be worked out but I love your ideas.

I hate/boycott DLC dungeons because of irritating, stupid mechanics. I would love to random queue excluding DLC dungeons. As far as 'Random rewards', I could not care a whit about them - I only to dungeons for the fun, never the loot.

I only pug with my healer. DPS queues are too long. My tank won't generally pug because pugs are too frustrating (rush ahead squishies who won't let the tank do their job). I'd love to see an 'unlock role' instance like you mentioned. Mostly to satisfy myself that my characters are reasonably up to the task but also to help ensure others are as well.

I also have long endorsed the idea of two types of queues. One with a traditional role make up and the other with no regard to roles at all. I would always queue for the traditional with my healer but would be happy to see dps who think running three or four dps is fine and want a shorter wait.

AcadianPaladin · October 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I just wanted to remark on the sad, sad, sad side of asking for some test of knowing role, mechanics and strategy. It's a social game. We should be the teachers for the fresh faces, we should be explaining them how to play, we should be the reason they're getting accustomed to vet content. Instead we want to push that off our shoulders and onto some test everyone should pass simply to play the game with us. Are we going too far with replacing parts of our society's functions with some crude automated versions? Maybe if we were better at performing those social functions (instead of kicking a low DPS from a dungeon because he 'wastes our time'), it would give better effect.

I know there are language barriers and there are things people want and do not want to be doing, and so on and so forth. Just thinking aloud here. For players of a social game... we're such a terribly asocial crowd sometimes.

As far as using our community as teachers, how's that been working out over the last few years?

John_Falstaff · October 2018

@Silver_Strider , it does happen like that too - some people are being what they are. I happened to get some heat for trying to explain mechanics. I'm lucky though, overall count is still positive and I prefer to assume good things. Besides, if not, what's the point playing an essentially social game? Those moments are the nicest, when I explain something to someone, see them being giddy when they get ahold of it, have nice time, stay after completion to ask more things, and most likely I will get friend list bigger, even though soon I'll come to the point where I'll have to feel awkward because it'll be full and I'm stubborn about removing anyone from it. If someone will just brush me off... ah well. Still worth it.