Cooperation-breaking PVE

EugeneBi · April 2014

Hi,

First, I'll tell you that I love this game - beautiful scenery, excellent voice over, thoughtful quests, etc. etc. Well, as long as I play this game solo with occasional instant cooperation with unknown players who just happened to be around to kill a hard boss. I.e. if it were a single-player game I would easily call it the best game ever.

But, a very important aspect of MMO is cooperation with friends. And this is where the game is terribly bad to the point of being not worth playing together. Yes, there are dungeons designed with cooperation in mind, but the 99.9% of the game to me is questing (did I say I love the quests in this game? I do!) and exploring together.

Questing is totally broken because the virtual reality is not shared.

Well, at first glance it looks just a bit awkward. We are in the same team, but we both have to talk to the quest giver and if somebody lags a bit behind, watch how friend talks to empty air because in my reality the quest giver moved to a different position.

Then it comes to realization that the quest goal is not shared. "Hey, adventurer, go disarm 5 traps!". OK, I see a trap, but my friend runs ahead and steals it from me! Hmm. should I better play alone?

But the final blow is the locked doors. Say, I already did that quest because my friend was busy with real life. Now he comes and we try it again. OK, I patiently watch him talking to air and doing actions I do not understand because I do not see what he sees and hear what he hears. But then he disappears behind the door that was open to me when I was doing this quest, but now it is closed! The party is broken beyond repair.

To a less extent this is applicable to exploration. Couldn't resource nodes be big enough so both of us could get that ore? Resource stealing is party breaker. Yes, this is not hot things are in real life and it would hurt immersion just a bit, but I value team playing higher than immersion. This is MMO, not a single-player game, the trade-offs are inevitably different.

Yes, there are interesting problems to solve if you want to implement shared reality. But there are precedents too. GW2 does it good enough. The story is terrible, the NPC are pathetic, but the experience is shared. So, sorry, but now when I meet my friend in game, we quit TESO and switch to GW2.

Etchesketch · April 2014

This is the worst of the horrendous number of problem with the game.

Say what anyone will, this game is less alive than any (I've played them ALL) mmo I've played. There is zero interaction between players, even in town, other than trying to find the banker or b.s. through the horde of people crowding around the npc.

p.s. force dismount inside craft halls please.

Vikova · April 2014

Yes, it can be a bit frustrating. My solution has been to run dungeons with friends, will start PvPing with friends soon, and if we feel like questing with perfect unison we hop over to another alliance where our characters are in identical spots in the game. We only play those characters when we are both online.

That being said, I have had plenty of fun questing on the mains as well - sure, you will run into some areas that you can't go into because it is a solo instance or you already did it. But those areas never take long to finish. I just go scrounging for materials while my friend finishes it up and gets caught up.

Gohlar · April 2014

It gets better, 4 man dungeons don't give exp other than the quest the 1st time through. It's pretty clear this is intended to be a single player game while leveling up. I don't think that's going to resonate with mmo players, but we'll see.

But yeah, group play in ESO for PvE is pretty bad.

Elsonso · April 2014

One of the features of this game is that when you complete an area, your world looks different than it did when you entered the area.

Now you are in a group with a mix of people, some have completed the area and some are just getting there for the first time.

You are complaining that the virtual reality is not the same, that everyone should see the same thing. But who's version of the reality are you going to use? Should you go back in time to before you completed the quest so you can see your friend's reality, or should your friend see yours? What if the area has multiple outcomes and two of you have different versions of reality, how do you choose?

I don't view this as a problem that needs to be fixed but as a side effect of a feature. You are not playing the game at the same point they are and you should expect to have issues. Your world is different from theirs. You have already made changes that have impacted what you see and now you want to go back and relive it through their eyes.

Lord_Hev · April 2014

Gohlar wrote: »

It gets better, 4 man dungeons don't give exp other than the quest the 1st time through. It's pretty clear this is intended to be a single player game while leveling up. I don't think that's going to resonate with mmo players, but we'll see.

But yeah, group play in ESO for PvE is pretty bad.

Exactly. They can at least, "remedy" this glaring narrative and yes, even game-play issue by adding an option for a "solo" mode for public quests. You still see other players outside, but public quests will be instanced to you only.[or, to anyone in your group.]

So this "solo" mode is not only OPTIONAL, but you can also use it to play co-op with your group members!

Instead of having to compete with 30 other "lifeles" PCs whom are already at the end of a long-forgotten-cave-that-was-only-recently-found-by-you quest and farming the boss. There is no social interaction in that. It's life-less. An optional "solo" mode that allows small group get-togethers would actually be more socially productive and encouraging than... what the base game is now...

Melian · April 2014

Well said OP. I believe this is something they're working on for the first patch, too.

lordrichter wrote: »

But who's version of the reality are you going to use? Should you go back in time to before you completed the quest so you can see your friend's reality, or should your friend see yours?

I should go back in time. It's the lesser of three evils: separating groups defeats the purpose of a multiplayer game, and my friend skipping over quests and seeing their results would be a spoiler and slow his/her leveling.

Audigy · April 2014

But, a very important aspect of MMO is cooperation with friends. And this is where the game is terribly bad to the point of being not worth playing together. Yes, there are dungeons designed with cooperation in mind, but the 99.9% of the game to me is questing (did I say I love the quests in this game? I do!) and exploring together.

Stop looking at group content with your wow goggles on. To group is not about "super mega items or xp" its about fun. Group to have a nice chat while playing or to help each other, forget about being superior to those who don't decide to group.

That's where wow did so wrong. They force you into groups as you cant advance solo, that's just horrible game design.

Nobody would run dungeons or raids at wow, if they were not mandatory for the best loot.
If people are so keen about friendship and "together" then they could also quest, but they don't. So that friendship or together cant be the real reason why they want to group

Thete · April 2014

I strongly suspect the decision to make it this way was to ease traditional TES players into it. They keep talking about the game being for an niche market which just reinforces that view in my mind.

Still, it will be fine as long as the actual group content keeps coming out and improves. There are any number of MMOs where levelling with a friend is less than ideal.

Nox_Aeterna · April 2014

Well , OP , while i do agree they should cover for groups also.

I love how this game is solo based. The more i can do alone , the better. While true , it should remain fun to play in a group.

EugeneBi · April 2014

Audigy wrote: »

But, a very important aspect of MMO is cooperation with friends. And this is where the game is terribly bad to the point of being not worth playing together. Yes, there are dungeons designed with cooperation in mind, but the 99.9% of the game to me is questing (did I say I love the quests in this game? I do!) and exploring together.

Stop looking at group content with your wow goggles on. To group is not about "super mega items or xp" its about fun. Group to have a nice chat while playing or to help each other, forget about being superior to those who don't decide to group.

That's where wow did so wrong. They force you into groups as you cant advance solo, that's just horrible game design.

Nobody would run dungeons or raids at wow, if they were not mandatory for the best loot.
If people are so keen about friendship and "together" then they could also quest, but they don't. So that friendship or together cant be the real reason why they want to group

I never played WOW. What is this? I want to have fun with my friend by actually doing something together in virtual reality. If we want just chat we'd better go to pub and have some beer.

EugeneBi · April 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Well , OP , while i do agree they should cover for groups also.

I love how this game is solo based. The more i can do alone , the better. While true , it should remain fun to play in a group.

I do love solo play in this game - everything: exploration, questing, crafting, leveling, you name it.

But I hate that I have to leave this beautiful world and go back to GW2 when my friend is available online. Current state of group support in TSO is a game breaker to me.