Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »To get this straight: I don't disagree with most of your points. It's obvious that currently stam is stronger in pvp, the shield and enchantment changes made this even clearer. However, I think your view is a bit lopsided. I'll keep this short and just give you food for thoughts here:
1) number of choices
You say stam has far more choices due to having 3 melee and 1 ranged weapon to choose from while mag has essentially 2 weapon and one of them isn't really for damage. You also decline the argument of 3 types of destro staves.
But you don't acknowledge that some stamina classes (not all, that's for sure) suffer from a lack of good class skills. Add to that the limitation of 2 bars only and you realize that the "stam meta" isn't completely free as well. Most usefull stam skills are tied to weapons, means you are forced to run X if you want a viable Y as well. I can play heavy with DW & Bow, but then I'm a sitting duck with neither a hot+snare removal or gap closer. There's a reason why HA 2h&DW is meta and not med snb&bow.
2) RNG
Despite the fact that status effects like poisoned/ diseased are rng as well you also don't mention that the most meta passives and heavy sets are rng. Passive bleeds have a chance to apply, they don't apply 100% of the time. Stam Sorcs biggest boon Implosion is heavily RNG. (Such it is for magsorcs but implosion is nearly non-existant for them thanks to fury).
Ravager has a bad proc chance on anything but a templar. I could even say that even 7th has only a proc chance but that condition is so wide that it's nearly perma up. On a sarcastic side note I'd put dizzying swing in the rng departement as well, with how difficulty it is to land.
But again, I agree on many things. And I don't want to downplay the power of stam builds. It really feels like this game is going downhill and mag surely deverse some love. Like I said, just a few comments on things I felt are a bit onesided.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »To get this straight: I don't disagree with most of your points. It's obvious that currently stam is stronger in pvp, the shield and enchantment changes made this even clearer. However, I think your view is a bit lopsided. I'll keep this short and just give you food for thoughts here:
1) number of choices
You say stam has far more choices due to having 3 melee and 1 ranged weapon to choose from while mag has essentially 2 weapon and one of them isn't really for damage. You also decline the argument of 3 types of destro staves.
But you don't acknowledge that some stamina classes (not all, that's for sure) suffer from a lack of good class skills. Add to that the limitation of 2 bars only and you realize that the "stam meta" isn't completely free as well. Most usefull stam skills are tied to weapons, means you are forced to run X if you want a viable Y as well. I can play heavy with DW & Bow, but then I'm a sitting duck with neither a hot+snare removal or gap closer. There's a reason why HA 2h&DW is meta and not med snb&bow.
2) RNG
Despite the fact that status effects like poisoned/ diseased are rng as well you also don't mention that the most meta passives and heavy sets are rng. Passive bleeds have a chance to apply, they don't apply 100% of the time. Stam Sorcs biggest boon Implosion is heavily RNG. (Such it is for magsorcs but implosion is nearly non-existant for them thanks to fury).
Ravager has a bad proc chance on anything but a templar. I could even say that even 7th has only a proc chance but that condition is so wide that it's nearly perma up. On a sarcastic side note I'd put dizzying swing in the rng departement as well, with how difficulty it is to land.
But again, I agree on many things. And I don't want to downplay the power of stam builds. It really feels like this game is going downhill and mag surely deverse some love. Like I said, just a few comments on things I felt are a bit onesided.
Thank you for being polite. I still say in Magicka vs Stamina. Stamina still win hands down for variety even with class skills. For example I will take my Templar and add up any and all magicka skills he has acess to using all skill lines available in the game including class skills,guild,world, weapon and armor and ultimates.
Magicka Templar-56 (includes vampire)
Stamina Templar-51(did not include WW)9
So pretty even. Although stamina has way more variety in stamina damage skill than my magicka does. That is what I was trying to point out.
As for RNG I was talking about skills not sets. Every build wether magicka or stamina has to worry about RNG on sets.
But with the Magicka nerfs I see alot of magicka users going heavy if not switching to stamina all together, except for the stubborn hardcore players.
Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.+ most magicka build's don't use any stamina skills, but most stamina build's can easily slot 3 to 5 magicka skills skills
Stopped reading when you mentioned stamina has more options. Magicka has A LOT more viable abilities at their disposal, a lot more viable sets(especially in no cp), and a lot more build variety.
Ask any stamina player what their build is and you'll see that most of them use Bone Pirate as their main set. Most of them use Blood Spawn as their monster set. Most of them will slot Vigor, Momentum, Whirlwind, Twin Slashes, and now Blade Cloak for the evasion. This is even more evident in PvE where every stam class is exactly the same except for a 3-4 class skills.
Your argument is objectively wrong.
This game is growing and it's pretty clear if you've been playing the last few months. The growing twitch viewership also makes it quite clear. That's yet another thing where you're completely wrong.Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.+ most magicka build's don't use any stamina skills, but most stamina build's can easily slot 3 to 5 magicka skills skills
Magicka builds don't eschew Stamina skills because we "don't need them," we do so because our stamina has to be devoted to break free and/or dodge roll. If you're a Magicka build that runs out of Stamina and gets targeted, you die.Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.
Magicka builds don't eschew Stamina skills because we "don't need them," we do so because our stamina has to be devoted to break free and/or dodge roll. If you're a Magicka build that runs out of Stamina and gets targeted, you die.Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.
No, it's not the same (maybe cloak is an exception sometimes, but that's it). In fact DK Wings are useless vs all of the non-archer Stam builds out there, though a straight up hard counter to many Magicka players. Being able to break free is never useless for anyone, however. The only times I can think of where I've seen someone survive an unbroken CC + damage dump, is when they had a significant amount of outside help in the form of big heals and/or counter CC/pressure.Magicka builds don't eschew Stamina skills because we "don't need them," we do so because our stamina has to be devoted to break free and/or dodge roll. If you're a Magicka build that runs out of Stamina and gets targeted, you die.Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.
It's the same for everybody, if a stamplar gets dotted up without magicka to cleanse it's gg. Same with Dk and scales, same with nightblades and cloak, etc.
Stopped reading when you mentioned stamina has more options. Magicka has A LOT more viable abilities at their disposal, a lot more viable sets(especially in no cp), and a lot more build variety.Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.+ most magicka build's don't use any stamina skills, but most stamina build's can easily slot 3 to 5 magicka skills skills
No, it's not the same (maybe cloak is an exception sometimes, but that's it). In fact DK Wings are useless vs all of the non-archer Stam builds out there, though a straight up hard counter to many Magicka players. Being able to break free is never useless for anyone, however. The only times I can think of where I've seen someone survive an unbroken CC + damage dump, is when they had a significant amount of outside help in the form of big heals and/or counter CC/pressure.Magicka builds don't eschew Stamina skills because we "don't need them," we do so because our stamina has to be devoted to break free and/or dodge roll. If you're a Magicka build that runs out of Stamina and gets targeted, you die.Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.
It's the same for everybody, if a stamplar gets dotted up without magicka to cleanse it's gg. Same with Dk and scales, same with nightblades and cloak, etc.
A Magicka build without Stamina is in a lot worse shape than a Stamina build without Magicka. That's not to say that some Magicka based abilities can't be incredibly strong for Stam builds, but it's not the same thing as a guaranteed death if the resource temporarily runs dry.
I did say, "(maybe cloak is an exception sometimes, but that's it)." Depending on the situation, it's sometimes possible for a Stamblade to escape without cloak. I've seen plenty sprint + dodge roll a time or two and get distance while avoiding damage. That's not likely to work against most Stam builds, what with gap closers not having a cooldown of any kind, but it's frequently enough to escape from Magicka builds.No, it's not the same (maybe cloak is an exception sometimes, but that's it). In fact DK Wings are useless vs all of the non-archer Stam builds out there, though a straight up hard counter to many Magicka players. Being able to break free is never useless for anyone, however. The only times I can think of where I've seen someone survive an unbroken CC + damage dump, is when they had a significant amount of outside help in the form of big heals and/or counter CC/pressure.Magicka builds don't eschew Stamina skills because we "don't need them," we do so because our stamina has to be devoted to break free and/or dodge roll. If you're a Magicka build that runs out of Stamina and gets targeted, you die.Magicka builds don't use stamina skills because they don't need to. Stamina uses magicka skills because pretty much every useful utility skill is magicka based. You're forced to slot magicka skills.
It's the same for everybody, if a stamplar gets dotted up without magicka to cleanse it's gg. Same with Dk and scales, same with nightblades and cloak, etc.
A Magicka build without Stamina is in a lot worse shape than a Stamina build without Magicka. That's not to say that some Magicka based abilities can't be incredibly strong for Stam builds, but it's not the same thing as a guaranteed death if the resource temporarily runs dry.
While I agree about what you say for stamdk, stamden, stamsorc or stamplar, I will have to disagree for stamblade. A stamblade out of magicka, especially if medium armor, is a dead stamblade.