“Its the new guy we hired to do new sets” - any time soon.

Hard to take personal responsibility and accept that they have no idea about what they are doing.

Anyway, I totally agree. ZoS must tell us all of the _think tank_ behind this great Murkmire balance patch.

I'M BATMAN!

Kadoin wrote: »

Eh, I've found the update to not be too bad in PvE and PvP. Healing ward change was "meh...", but with the initial heal gone, I can see just how powerful it was when put with mutagen. In PvP I actually die now, though apparently an entire zerg still cannot kill me in light armor reliably...

Then you will be able to praise your heroes, that's what I'm talking about

Shraar wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

It's highly unlikely that just one person decided on all these changes with no input from anyone else at ZOS. Most likely it was a whole team of people, or people from several different teams providing input.

Even seemingly small changes like the ability to re-order characters on the select screen probably involved at least 2-3 people: one to do the programming 'behind the scenes', one to do the UI changes and one to approve them both taking the time to do it and to sign off on the final version. Not because it's so much work that one person wouldn't have time, but because it requires different skills.

I know, right? I guarantee you the people saying stuff like that have never worked on a game with a team before. Pretty much anything is collaborative effort, nobody goes rogue and makes their own changes without either collaborating (everything is connected) or consulting!

It's a very simplistic view, and probably the reason why many of these dogmatic arrogant forum posters had their applications rejected!

@Malem_Benign

Yep, and that's the interesing part here - who's that hero, who didn't go rogue and brought his beautiful idea, the trend on the collaborative table, that was so successful at the end!

Shraar wrote: »

Malem_Benign wrote: »

Shraar wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

It's highly unlikely that just one person decided on all these changes with no input from anyone else at ZOS. Most likely it was a whole team of people, or people from several different teams providing input.

Even seemingly small changes like the ability to re-order characters on the select screen probably involved at least 2-3 people: one to do the programming 'behind the scenes', one to do the UI changes and one to approve them both taking the time to do it and to sign off on the final version. Not because it's so much work that one person wouldn't have time, but because it requires different skills.

I know, right? I guarantee you the people saying stuff like that have never worked on a game with a team before. Pretty much anything is collaborative effort, nobody goes rogue and makes their own changes without either collaborating (everything is connected) or consulting!

It's a very simplistic view, and probably the reason why many of these dogmatic arrogant forum posters had their applications rejected!

@Malem_Benign

Yep, and that's the interesing part here - who's that hero, who didn't go rogue and brought his beautiful idea, the trend on the collaborative table, that was so successful at the end!

You don't understand what collaboration means, you are not smart! The jig is up, your disguise fell off instantly. You are bad at deceiving people... good!

Yep, that's it. You got me. The idea is always the result of collective mind. As well as responsibility, and hiding behind "we", especially when something is fkd up.

Raraaku wrote: »

Buffs and Nerfs are the nature of all MMOs, any big changes lead to rough adjustments as players adapt to the new changes. Adapt, play a new class, or test and talk to the class reps so that they can give feedback backed by numbers to the devs and show what's wrong, where within the system it's wrong, and why it's wrong. Otherwise nothing will happen except forcing me onto a low sodium diet with all this salt your sprinkling throughout the forums.

Show what's wrong within the system? 65 pages in only one thread didn't show what's wrong?

Turelus wrote: »

Malem_Benign wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

Buffs and Nerfs are the nature of all MMOs, any big changes lead to rough adjustments as players adapt to the new changes. Adapt, play a new class, or test and talk to the class reps so that they can give feedback backed by numbers to the devs and show what's wrong, where within the system it's wrong, and why it's wrong. Otherwise nothing will happen except forcing me onto a low sodium diet with all this salt your sprinkling throughout the forums.

Show what's wrong within the system? 65 pages in only one thread didn't show what's wrong?

How many pages is it if you remove the useless posts that add nothing but complaining and hyperbolic statement though?

How many pages there are from DEVs convincing worried players that the efforts are for good? With arguments, numbers, statistics, something?

Turelus wrote: »

Malem_Benign wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Malem_Benign wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

Buffs and Nerfs are the nature of all MMOs, any big changes lead to rough adjustments as players adapt to the new changes. Adapt, play a new class, or test and talk to the class reps so that they can give feedback backed by numbers to the devs and show what's wrong, where within the system it's wrong, and why it's wrong. Otherwise nothing will happen except forcing me onto a low sodium diet with all this salt your sprinkling throughout the forums.

Show what's wrong within the system? 65 pages in only one thread didn't show what's wrong?

How many pages is it if you remove the useless posts that add nothing but complaining and hyperbolic statement though?

How many pages there are from DEVs convincing worried players that the efforts are for good? With arguments, numbers, statistics, something?

None, because that's not how and hasn't ever been how ZOS does things. There's an argument to be made that we should get communication like that, but knowing how ZOS operates I don't see why one would expect this of them.

Hmm... why so? Any logic or reason?
Is it supposed to be like they do what they want, but we have to keep quite or nice and continue to play'n'pay?
I'm not sure that's the right way to make things.

I really like this game. But when something reckless as recent patch happens there are only few choices left: swallow, quit or argue.

I don't want to swallow, nor quit yet. I'm sure I'm not alone with such state of mood.

You're trying to invert the situation and manipulate facts across the forum. To calm down the players that became mad with the recent patch and not without a reason.

Anyway. My intention is to get the global idea, the trend of upcoming changes, to meet the people that stands behind that. To make my own choice: to stay and hope for good times or stop wasting my time and money, and invest them into someone's more responsible product.

So in the real world outside of game development land, the champion needs to attach their name to a specific project. If the project is a failure, they're held accountable.

I guess the question is, at what point is a content update considered a failure, and are we ever going to hold specific members of a dev team accountable?

How do we measure failure? Do we measure it in the sheer number of threads saying that Nerfmire is the worst thing to happen to this game since the Morrowind sustain death? How about the 65 pages of complaints from Sorcs? How about the fact that specific, relevant feedback was provided via the class reps, and what we wound up with were several cases where the feedback was just ignored, and several where there were halfway measures taken that left nobody happy? *cough*sorcs*cough*

How about some math now? Let's say there are 1 million total regular players across all platforms. This is probably high, but just for argument's sake. Now, let's say about 25% play Sorcs as a main or secondary character. I think this is pretty reasonable. So we've got 250,000 regular sorc players. Of those 250,000, let's say 10% un-sub or just outright quit the game over this. That's still 25,000 players, 25,000 x 15 = $375,000 per month in revenue you just lost on ESO plus alone. That's not counting chapters or any crown store stuff.

All I'm saying is that if there were a way to prove that I just cost the company $4.5 million per year because I decided to make a largely unpopular series of gameplay changes, I'd be terminated last week.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

So in the real world outside of game development land, the champion needs to attach their name to a specific project. If the project is a failure, they're held accountable.

I guess the question is, at what point is a content update considered a failure, and are we ever going to hold specific members of a dev team accountable?

How do we measure failure? Do we measure it in the sheer number of threads saying that Nerfmire is the worst thing to happen to this game since the Morrowind sustain death? How about the 65 pages of complaints from Sorcs? How about the fact that specific, relevant feedback was provided via the class reps, and what we wound up with were several cases where the feedback was just ignored, and several where there were halfway measures taken that left nobody happy? *cough*sorcs*cough*

How about some math now? Let's say there are 1 million total regular players across all platforms. This is probably high, but just for argument's sake. Now, let's say about 25% play Sorcs as a main or secondary character. I think this is pretty reasonable. So we've got 250,000 regular sorc players. Of those 250,000, let's say 10% un-sub or just outright quit the game over this. That's still 25,000 players, 25,000 x 15 = $375,000 per month in revenue you just lost on ESO plus alone. That's not counting chapters or any crown store stuff.

All I'm saying is that if there were a way to prove that I just cost the company $4.5 million per year because I decided to make a largely unpopular series of gameplay changes, I'd be terminated last week.

100% agree. The best way to "communicate" with devs and "measure" changes is... money! The only real way to vote.