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ZOS give options when queing for dungeons?
Joxer61
✭✭✭✭✭
Ok, so I have recently taken up tanking as it was something I did in prior MMo's and I enjoy it. Also, when queing for randoms it seemed we never got an actual tank, just a DD that checked tank. Made it a tad crazy for someone new to the dungeon so I thought why not go as tank? Well it appears to me that ZOS has made it so tanks just aren't needed at the low levels. But if that's true then how the hell does one learn the dungeons and how to tank, if you cant play as such? And yes, I have done the whole "letting the group know I am new" and all that, but they take off anyways and I am not about to go chasing someone, didn't q for that mate, not my thing.
So, how can this be fixed? I mean the quickest easiest way would be for those that want to speed run o do so with guildies/friends right? Well that's not always an option with diff times and all that. How about changing the WAY you que up? have an option that if you want to run with 4 DD's you can do so, or 3 DD's and a heal or the old school way of tank/heal/2 DD??
That way people can get their speed runs and such and not cause nor get any grief because they qued as something else? Its a win/win since everyone can que up for what they want and the times would be shorter since you wouldn't be waiting on a particular class that there are few of on the server! 4 DD's would fill really fast and those that want a tank would be as it is now, or maybe better?
All in all I think it would be a better fit for the game and stop silly people like me posted crap on forums and also give those of us that want to learn to tank the chance since the groups I get are willing to take their time?!! One can only hope...…
So, how can this be fixed? I mean the quickest easiest way would be for those that want to speed run o do so with guildies/friends right? Well that's not always an option with diff times and all that. How about changing the WAY you que up? have an option that if you want to run with 4 DD's you can do so, or 3 DD's and a heal or the old school way of tank/heal/2 DD??
That way people can get their speed runs and such and not cause nor get any grief because they qued as something else? Its a win/win since everyone can que up for what they want and the times would be shorter since you wouldn't be waiting on a particular class that there are few of on the server! 4 DD's would fill really fast and those that want a tank would be as it is now, or maybe better?
All in all I think it would be a better fit for the game and stop silly people like me posted crap on forums and also give those of us that want to learn to tank the chance since the groups I get are willing to take their time?!! One can only hope...…
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Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, so I have recently taken up tanking as it was something I did in prior MMo's and I enjoy it. Also, when queing for randoms it seemed we never got an actual tank, just a DD that checked tank. Made it a tad crazy for someone new to the dungeon so I thought why not go as tank? Well it appears to me that ZOS has made it so tanks just aren't needed at the low levels. But if that's true then how the hell does one learn the dungeons and how to tank, if you cant play as such? And yes, I have done the whole "letting the group know I am new" and all that, but they take off anyways and I am not about to go chasing someone, didn't q for that mate, not my thing.
So, how can this be fixed? I mean the quickest easiest way would be for those that want to speed run o do so with guildies/friends right? Well that's not always an option with diff times and all that. How about changing the WAY you que up? have an option that if you want to run with 4 DD's you can do so, or 3 DD's and a heal or the old school way of tank/heal/2 DD??
That way people can get their speed runs and such and not cause nor get any grief because they qued as something else? Its a win/win since everyone can que up for what they want and the times would be shorter since you wouldn't be waiting on a particular class that there are few of on the server! 4 DD's would fill really fast and those that want a tank would be as it is now, or maybe better?
All in all I think it would be a better fit for the game and stop silly people like me posted crap on forums and also give those of us that want to learn to tank the chance since the groups I get are willing to take their time?!! One can only hope...…
I bolded the root of the problem. If you let people queue as all 4 DDs, then how will a healer/tank ever learn the mechanics since, based on what you said, all DDs just want to speed run the normal dungeons. In theory, there will hardly ever be any DDs wanting to do the normal group forming method. I understand what the problem is with Group Finder, I just don't think this is the solution. Any type of solution that is aimed at splitting the ground finder into separate instances is not a good idea, in my opinion. The wait time can already be horrendous, so lets not make it any longer.0 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Ok, so I have recently taken up tanking as it was something I did in prior MMo's and I enjoy it. Also, when queing for randoms it seemed we never got an actual tank, just a DD that checked tank. Made it a tad crazy for someone new to the dungeon so I thought why not go as tank? Well it appears to me that ZOS has made it so tanks just aren't needed at the low levels. But if that's true then how the hell does one learn the dungeons and how to tank, if you cant play as such? And yes, I have done the whole "letting the group know I am new" and all that, but they take off anyways and I am not about to go chasing someone, didn't q for that mate, not my thing.
So, how can this be fixed? I mean the quickest easiest way would be for those that want to speed run o do so with guildies/friends right? Well that's not always an option with diff times and all that. How about changing the WAY you que up? have an option that if you want to run with 4 DD's you can do so, or 3 DD's and a heal or the old school way of tank/heal/2 DD??
That way people can get their speed runs and such and not cause nor get any grief because they qued as something else? Its a win/win since everyone can que up for what they want and the times would be shorter since you wouldn't be waiting on a particular class that there are few of on the server! 4 DD's would fill really fast and those that want a tank would be as it is now, or maybe better?
All in all I think it would be a better fit for the game and stop silly people like me posted crap on forums and also give those of us that want to learn to tank the chance since the groups I get are willing to take their time?!! One can only hope...…
I bolded the root of the problem. If you let people queue as all 4 DDs, then how will a healer/tank ever learn the mechanics since, based on what you said, all DDs just want to speed run the normal dungeons. In theory, there will hardly ever be any DDs wanting to do the normal group forming method. I understand what the problem is with Group Finder, I just don't think this is the solution. Any type of solution that is aimed at splitting the ground finder into separate instances is not a good idea, in my opinion. The wait time can already be horrendous, so lets not make it any longer.
I definitely think unorthodox que options should happen. There will absolutely be DD that want to run with the tank and healer still.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest1 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭BejaProphet wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »Ok, so I have recently taken up tanking as it was something I did in prior MMo's and I enjoy it. Also, when queing for randoms it seemed we never got an actual tank, just a DD that checked tank. Made it a tad crazy for someone new to the dungeon so I thought why not go as tank? Well it appears to me that ZOS has made it so tanks just aren't needed at the low levels. But if that's true then how the hell does one learn the dungeons and how to tank, if you cant play as such? And yes, I have done the whole "letting the group know I am new" and all that, but they take off anyways and I am not about to go chasing someone, didn't q for that mate, not my thing.
So, how can this be fixed? I mean the quickest easiest way would be for those that want to speed run o do so with guildies/friends right? Well that's not always an option with diff times and all that. How about changing the WAY you que up? have an option that if you want to run with 4 DD's you can do so, or 3 DD's and a heal or the old school way of tank/heal/2 DD??
That way people can get their speed runs and such and not cause nor get any grief because they qued as something else? Its a win/win since everyone can que up for what they want and the times would be shorter since you wouldn't be waiting on a particular class that there are few of on the server! 4 DD's would fill really fast and those that want a tank would be as it is now, or maybe better?
All in all I think it would be a better fit for the game and stop silly people like me posted crap on forums and also give those of us that want to learn to tank the chance since the groups I get are willing to take their time?!! One can only hope...…
I bolded the root of the problem. If you let people queue as all 4 DDs, then how will a healer/tank ever learn the mechanics since, based on what you said, all DDs just want to speed run the normal dungeons. In theory, there will hardly ever be any DDs wanting to do the normal group forming method. I understand what the problem is with Group Finder, I just don't think this is the solution. Any type of solution that is aimed at splitting the ground finder into separate instances is not a good idea, in my opinion. The wait time can already be horrendous, so lets not make it any longer.
I definitely think unorthodox que options should happen. There will absolutely be DD that want to run with the tank and healer still.
In Veteran Dungeons, yes. But that wouldn't help the OP who is trying to learn the mechanics and how to tank. In normal dungeons, the Tank/Healers queue time would be that of what DD has now, if not longer.0 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭/shrug. I suspect that wouldn’t be the case. A few months back a poll was done on these forums about everybody’s ideal group make up. Overwhelmingly people stated they wanted both tank and healer. I think the end result would be massive improvement for all.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you want to learn as a Tank, get with a guild.
Or, and this is real effective, find a Healer and the two of you enter the que. If you get some speed freak DPS in the group, let them run ahead and die. Then explain that you will tank and heal for them if they stick to the group like they should. If they complain about that, then tell them you play to the traditional roles.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"2 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How I learned to tank (and you could too!):- Do lots of random groups for 4-person dungeons. Trust me, you will have groups where your skills are needed or at least somewhat useful and appreciated. Not always, but enough of the time to get a feel for things.
- Do lots of world bosses, especially those in DLC/chapter regions. You will get a lot of practice tanking if you assemble a world boss beatdown group in zone with a group of 3 to 4 players. This is really easy to do during this plunder skull event.
- Watch what other tanks do. Then adopt the strategies you like. There are different ways to do tanking, so watching a few different kinds of experienced tanks can give you ideas.
- Whitestrake’s Retribution is your friend. When first learning, I ran this crafted set to give me a big damage shield if I screwed up and my health got too low. It would give me or the healer time to fix the damage while keeping me up.
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AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some fantastic advice herein. ^^ First of all to OP, I applaud you trying the path least traveled. I agree that a great place to learn is helping randoms at world bosses. Start with WBs that are one single brute until you can grab, turn and hold him reliably. Then go to WBs that consist of two bosses and learn to manage controlling two bosses at once. Finally, graduate to some of the WBs that are trios. If you can hold three bosses by the nose you are solid.
Normal pugs are okay but you need to be patient. You will absolutely be frustrated by race ahead squishies who seem intent on not letting you initiate pulls and thereby gain initial control. When that happens you get to curse alot under your breath and practice salvaging messes as you try to pull a boss from a squishy who is kiting it all around the chamber. Make the best of that and endure. Because you absolutely will find pugs that will let you do your job - especially if you look the part (heavy armor with sword & board) and ask them to let you initiate pulls. When that happens and the group lets you do your job, the satisfaction is great.
A few days ago I did a normal pug on my DK tank and they just automatically let me lead - it was fantastic. The next day I got a group of 'race aheads' and it was an exercise in frustration. I'm convinced that is why so many of the already small population of tanks refuse to pug at all.
And I'd be all for some more flexibility options in the dungeon finder:
- No dlc option.
- Classic group composition option (like we have now of 2 dps, 1 tank, 1 healer).
- Flex option - groups of four with no regard to role. This would pretty clearly end up 4 dps most of the time but, hey, it would speed up their wait times if in a hurry.Edited by AcadianPaladin on October 22, 2018 9:59PMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭If you want to learn as a Tank, get with a guild.
If you want to race thru a dungeon, get with a guild.
See how this can be a perpetual never ending problem? What you suggest isn't a fix at all. Now the 2nd part of your reply I agree with 100% and have done that very thing, just not always an option.
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Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you want to learn as a Tank, get with a guild.
If you want to race thru a dungeon, get with a guild.
See how this can be a perpetual never ending problem? What you suggest isn't a fix at all. Now the 2nd part of your reply I agree with 100% and have done that very thing, just not always an option.
I don't think your first statement is accurate. The post you quoted said..."If you want to learn a dungeon, get with a guild." That is true, as the guild will work with you to learn. This statement is not completely true though....."If you want to race through a dungeon, get with a guild." When you queue for a random dungeon, you're at the mercy of the other players. If they want to speed run or go afk for 5 mins, there is nothing you can do besides try and vote kick. If two of them happened to join together, well then there is absolutely nothing you can do. And the whole point of random dungeons, in my opinion, is to get them done with as quickly as possible to get the XP and get out of there. If I really want to learn a new dungeons mechanics, then I am definitely not joining with randoms...I'll be going in with friends/guildmates.0 -
Joxer61✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »If you want to learn as a Tank, get with a guild.
If you want to race thru a dungeon, get with a guild.
See how this can be a perpetual never ending problem? What you suggest isn't a fix at all. Now the 2nd part of your reply I agree with 100% and have done that very thing, just not always an option.
I don't think your first statement is accurate. The post you quoted said..."If you want to learn a dungeon, get with a guild." That is true, as the guild will work with you to learn. This statement is not completely true though....."If you want to race through a dungeon, get with a guild." When you queue for a random dungeon, you're at the mercy of the other players. If they want to speed run or go afk for 5 mins, there is nothing you can do besides try and vote kick. If two of them happened to join together, well then there is absolutely nothing you can do. And the whole point of random dungeons, in my opinion, is to get them done with as quickly as possible to get the XP and get out of there. If I really want to learn a new dungeons mechanics, then I am definitely not joining with randoms...I'll be going in with friends/guildmates.
See that's just sad because what about those folks who don't have a guild, or play at different times? Randoms are there as a tool for people who cant schedule with regular folks as you suggest, so you que with others that are in the same boat. You guys using them to just speed run,get loot and move on is what breaks a system. SAme with every MMO that has done it so ESO is not unique in that sense. Just sad it has to be a thing.
And his quote wasn't dungeon, it was "If you want to learn as a Tank, get with a guild"...tank...and again same applies....what if you aren't lucky enough to get with friends? The system is there to allow people to run at off times and if ZOS just wanted them to be sped thru I doubt they would have made the tank/healer/dps an option. But they did so in hopes that people can learn their craft/class.0 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Donny_Vito wrote: »If you want to learn as a Tank, get with a guild.
If you want to race thru a dungeon, get with a guild.
See how this can be a perpetual never ending problem? What you suggest isn't a fix at all. Now the 2nd part of your reply I agree with 100% and have done that very thing, just not always an option.
I don't think your first statement is accurate. The post you quoted said..."If you want to learn a dungeon, get with a guild." That is true, as the guild will work with you to learn. This statement is not completely true though....."If you want to race through a dungeon, get with a guild." When you queue for a random dungeon, you're at the mercy of the other players. If they want to speed run or go afk for 5 mins, there is nothing you can do besides try and vote kick. If two of them happened to join together, well then there is absolutely nothing you can do. And the whole point of random dungeons, in my opinion, is to get them done with as quickly as possible to get the XP and get out of there. If I really want to learn a new dungeons mechanics, then I am definitely not joining with randoms...I'll be going in with friends/guildmates.
See that's just sad because what about those folks who don't have a guild, or play at different times? Randoms are there as a tool for people who cant schedule with regular folks as you suggest, so you que with others that are in the same boat. You guys using them to just speed run,get loot and move on is what breaks a system. SAme with every MMO that has done it so ESO is not unique in that sense. Just sad it has to be a thing.
And his quote wasn't dungeon, it was "If you want to learn as a Tank, get with a guild"...tank...and again same applies....what if you aren't lucky enough to get with friends? The system is there to allow people to run at off times and if ZOS just wanted them to be sped thru I doubt they would have made the tank/healer/dps an option. But they did so in hopes that people can learn their craft/class.
Well it seems we have different interpretations of what "randoms" should be. As you said, "Randoms are there as a tool for people who cant schedule with regular folks as you suggest..." and I have to disagree with that. You should have zero expectations on what the randoms should do for you. If you want expectations about how the group dynamics and communication should be, then you need to spend some time and search for new people to play with. Don't have a guild? Do some research and find one that can help you. Don't have friends to play with? Reach out in zone chat or the forums to find people who play at your specific time. But do not expect "randoms" to cater to your play-style when they have their own personal agendas. Maybe one time they'll slow down and let you learn, or maybe they won't. You joined a random dungeon finder, and you need to deal with the consequences that come with that.0