(Sorc) I can't be the only one who dislikes that Minor Prophecy is bound to Dark Magic abilities

Benemime · October 2018

Dark Magic abilities are bad for a dps rotation, with the exception of crystal frags. But what about those who doesn't like to slot crystal frags in their build? I'm a lightning mage wearing Netch's Touch for example, only shock dmg. Also, crystal frags is only good if you slot force pulse, we don't see many petsorcs using crystal frags. There are a lot of builds that are based on light/heavy attacks that won't proc frags so they don't bother slotting it either.

It's such a good buff to be wasted in one ability, the rest are just CC abilities and there's dark deal with 1s cost

IMO minor prophecy should be a passive from either Daedric Summoning or Storm Calling, both has a bunch of better skills than dark magic, for DD.

Bad design, ZOS.

.

Darkenarlol · October 2018

they decided to go to the point where WoW was about 10 years ago - individual class buffs so

you can have *fun* by adding different classes in your group...Blizzard changed it later so you won't

have to bring class X as the only source of buff Y...

now ZOS copying another company's aborted bad design... which brought all magicka classes to -3% crit chance

in any scenario where there is no frag-casting sorc nearby... same with nerfing warhorn motivated by

*uh oh just bring wardens to your team*... lame as most of nerfmire changes

WrathOfInnos · October 2018

Storm Calling would be a great place for it. Just swap one of those passives over to the Dark Magic line. Or the other option would be to turn Crystal Blast into something useful, like a Shock damage instant cast spammable.

Benemime · October 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

they decided to go to the point where WoW was about 10 years ago - individual class buffs so

you can have *fun* by adding different classes in your group...Blizzard changed it later so you won't

have to bring class X as the only source of buff Y...

now ZOS copying another company's aborted bad design... which brought all magicka classes to -3% crit chance

in any scenario where there is no frag-casting sorc nearby... same with nerfing warhorn motivated by

*uh oh just bring wardens to your team*... lame as most of nerfmire changes

It's actually 6% now with Murkmire.

Minor Prophecy: Increased the bonus to Spell Critical Strike Chance to 6% from 3%.

Darkenarlol · October 2018

Benemime wrote: »

It's actually 6% now with Murkmire.

Minor Prophecy: Increased the bonus to Spell Critical Strike Chance to 6% from 3%.

it was a 3% buff to your let's say 60% so 63% with frag sorc

it is still 63% now but everyone ( including non-frag sorcs) is stripped of their 3% previously built-in mag crit

but getting same value if buffed by that frag sorc... so you have same 63% just 57% from your build and 6 from buff

which is definitelly a nerf with sadistic way to troll us like *c'mon values are still same if buffed*

Starlock · October 2018

I have the same complaint. It is frustrating that my character is getting a crit nerf for no reason, when he relies on crits for self heals. I’ll deal with it, and I get why the change was done, but I don’t undestand why proc was limited to dark magic.

MashmalloMan · October 2018

So I have a couple thoughts, I agree with their changes, however I still think dark magic is a crappy option.

+12 % crit just from cp was overkill making it absolutely neccessary to have enough cp to get that mark. The farther they get from that the better. I actually like that they put a heavier focus on group synergy then cp handling most of that load.
Minor brutality and sorcery were buffed with NO downsides. +10% wep and spell dmg is pretty strong and most fights have a dk tank or templar healer so it's not like it will be very rare.
Since the crit has been moved from CP to an in class buff, no CP pvp and lower CP characters have easier access to higher damage through group support.
I agree as a stam sorc main, I hate that minor prophecy is tied to dark magic, the only ability I use out of that skill tree is dark deal. In pvp this makes sense, I use it within every 20 seconds therefore I can buff my mag group, but in pve, there is absolutely no reason to use it because I build for sustain without dark deals clunky 1.2 sec cast time (actually about 1.6 seconds in a rotation)
Stam sorc effectively has 0 group support because they can't provide that buff and greater storm atronach is the closest thing to a group syngery, but you can only use it every 57 seconds or so.

Dagoth_Rac · October 2018

With the increase to these minor buffs that are unique to each class, they are more important than ever. They should be moved from a single skill line to any class skill. That will still encourage a range of classes in group content without artificially forcing the players down a particular skill line that may not be useful for their build.

MashmalloMan · October 2018

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

With the increase to these minor buffs that are unique to each class, they are more important than ever. They should be moved from a single skill line to any class skill. That will still encourage a range of classes in group content without artificially forcing the players down a particular skill line that may not be useful for their build.

Of course nightblades have it the easiest based on any attack critting.. Like come on, what bias is this.

Warden's are a close second with any heal. Even your self healing via companion skills procs it on full health, DD's that don't want a group heal will have a harder time providing it to their team, but at least you get stam/mag return by doing so with a Green Balance skill.

Beardimus · October 2018

Dark Exchange, it's giving resources over time now too..

ccmedaddy · October 2018

Moving the buff to Storm Calling skill line seems like a no brainer tbh. No reason sorcs should be forced to run an unneeded skill just for this buff when other classes don't really have to make the same sacrifice.

MashmalloMan · October 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

Dark Exchange, it's giving resources over time now too..

Still doesn't fit in to a DD's rotation. Using hp/sta/sta reg food + Stormfist and Absorb sta equals the same or better dps/sustain as using bi-stat food etc + dark deal.

PVP is fine, PVE is not. There should be a universal option like moving it to storm calling as that skill tree is used by almost every spec. Nightblades don't have to worry about this at all. Why do other classes need to.

Azurya · October 2018

I like it that way, playing a stamsorc, I don´t care.

MashmalloMan · October 2018

Azurya wrote: »

I like it that way, playing a stamsorc, I don´t care.

That's a bit contradicting, you like it that way so presumably you wouldn't want it changed, yet you proceed to say you play a stam sorc so it doesn't effect you and you don't care.

It doesn't effect me directly either, but being able to help buff my group with +6% spell crit is an awesome tool. I feel like a selfish class when others provide the buff innately and we tell ourselves. Well it doesn't benefit me so I don't care.

Move it to storm calling so we can help our group. That is the whole point of the buff in the first place.

ccmedaddy · October 2018

Why would a stamsorc care about Minor Prophecy anyways lol

jypcy · October 2018

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Stam sorc effectively has 0 group support because they can't provide that buff and greater storm atronach is the closest thing to a group syngery, but you can only use it every 57 seconds or so.

Use the asylum 2h! I think my friend’s record is either 4 or 5 atronachs up at once

But yeah, it’d be cool for stam sorc, or sorcs in general, to be able to provide a bit more, especially as zos pushes for group makeup diversity.

Xvorg · October 2018

Benemime wrote: »

Dark Magic abilities are bad for a dps rotation, with the exception of crystal frags. But what about those who doesn't like to slot crystal frags in their build? I'm a lightning mage wearing Netch's Touch for example, only shock dmg. Also, crystal frags is only good if you slot force pulse, we don't see many petsorcs using crystal frags. There are a lot of builds that are based on light/heavy attacks that won't proc frags so they don't bother slotting it either.

It's such a good buff to be wasted in one ability, the rest are just CC abilities and there's dark deal with 1s cost

IMO minor prophecy should be a passive from either Daedric Summoning or Storm Calling, both has a bunch of better skills than dark magic, for DD.

Bad design, ZOS.

.

For the same reason minor brutality is in the Earthen Earth line.

iCaliban · October 2018

This is especially painful for pet builds, who have no room for dark magic abilities and no way to proc them reliably even if we did.

MashmalloMan · October 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

Dark Magic abilities are bad for a dps rotation, with the exception of crystal frags. But what about those who doesn't like to slot crystal frags in their build? I'm a lightning mage wearing Netch's Touch for example, only shock dmg. Also, crystal frags is only good if you slot force pulse, we don't see many petsorcs using crystal frags. There are a lot of builds that are based on light/heavy attacks that won't proc frags so they don't bother slotting it either.

It's such a good buff to be wasted in one ability, the rest are just CC abilities and there's dark deal with 1s cost

IMO minor prophecy should be a passive from either Daedric Summoning or Storm Calling, both has a bunch of better skills than dark magic, for DD.

Bad design, ZOS.

.

For the same reason minor brutality is in the Earthen Earth line.

Similar issue, but not exactly. I agree that something should be changed for DK too.

mDK's always use eruption within 20 seconds.
sDK's could use molten armaments (HA + pot build)/igneous weapons (no pot build)
tankDK's use igneous shield before 20 seconds is ever up
healDK's could use any of the above skills

They are all insta cast, the least benefiting is a stamDK as HA builds are dead and molten/igneous weapons are 40 sec skills meaning you would need to overcast for high uptime. Some stamDK's are thinking about using eruption, it's 18sec and will give about 500dps + minor brutality. Using an Earthen Heart skill also gives back 1k sta and 3 ult so it's super useful.

In comparison to a Sorc..

mSORC's PET will use nothing from dark magic.
mSORC's non pet use crystal frag, so all good.
sSORC's don't use anything but dark deal. This is fine for pvp but horrible for pve.
tankSORC's could use encase, but seriously, if you want to use the clanfear for 35% heal, 8% max hp, you are really lacking bar space. Encase is also front casted instead of around the tank so the skill sucks in comparison in to dk's choking talons. This is a wider issue but it illustrates why a tankSORC may not bother using the only tank skill in the skill line. The plus side is it gives 10% heal on cast and major vitality. A tank could speak better to whether or not they find it worth it.
healSORC's have nothing but encase and absorbtion field. Tied to an ult is bad uptime and encase is mainly for tanks and pvp.

Every spec could use dark deal/exchange, but once again, cast time. Some tanks prefer deep thoughts for resource return and major protection.

Pvp is a non issue, I have this group buff up 24/7 and dark magic is primarily pvp skills.

MashmalloMan · October 2018

jypcy wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Stam sorc effectively has 0 group support because they can't provide that buff and greater storm atronach is the closest thing to a group syngery, but you can only use it every 57 seconds or so.

Use the asylum 2h! I think my friend’s record is either 4 or 5 atronachs up at once

But yeah, it’d be cool for stam sorc, or sorcs in general, to be able to provide a bit more, especially as zos pushes for group makeup diversity.

Oh man, that's pretty funny, I would love to try that out, but I'm sure his dps suffered somehow. Maybe it isn't that bad with so many atro's lol.

Tasear · October 2018

As your class rep, I am sharing the concern with others to see.

SirMewser · October 2018

How about when a Sorc critically strikes with a class ability, they grant minor prophecy?

MashmalloMan · October 2018

SirMewser wrote: »

How about when a Sorc critically strikes with a class ability, they grant minor prophecy?

Yeah that would be cool too, I thought it would be a bit too easy, but NB's have that, so go figure lol.

Xvorg · October 2018

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

Dark Magic abilities are bad for a dps rotation, with the exception of crystal frags. But what about those who doesn't like to slot crystal frags in their build? I'm a lightning mage wearing Netch's Touch for example, only shock dmg. Also, crystal frags is only good if you slot force pulse, we don't see many petsorcs using crystal frags. There are a lot of builds that are based on light/heavy attacks that won't proc frags so they don't bother slotting it either.

It's such a good buff to be wasted in one ability, the rest are just CC abilities and there's dark deal with 1s cost

IMO minor prophecy should be a passive from either Daedric Summoning or Storm Calling, both has a bunch of better skills than dark magic, for DD.

Bad design, ZOS.

.

For the same reason minor brutality is in the Earthen Earth line.

Similar issue, but not exactly. I agree that something should be changed for DK too.

mDK's always use eruption within 20 seconds.
sDK's could use molten armaments (HA + pot build)/igneous weapons (no pot build)
tankDK's use igneous shield before 20 seconds is ever up
healDK's could use any of the above skills

They are all insta cast, the least benefiting is a stamDK as HA builds are dead and molten/igneous weapons are 40 sec skills meaning you would need to overcast for high uptime. Some stamDK's are thinking about using eruption, it's 18sec and will give about 500dps + minor brutality. Using an Earthen Heart skill also gives back 1k sta and 3 ult so it's super useful.

In comparison to a Sorc..

mSORC's PET will use nothing from dark magic.
mSORC's non pet use crystal frag, so all good.
sSORC's don't use anything but dark deal. This is fine for pvp but horrible for pve.
tankSORC's could use encase, but seriously, if you want to use the clanfear for 35% heal, 8% max hp, you are really lacking bar space. Encase is also front casted instead of around the tank so the skill sucks in comparison in to dk's choking talons. This is a wider issue but it illustrates why a tankSORC may not bother using the only tank skill in the skill line. The plus side is it gives 10% heal on cast and major vitality. A tank could speak better to whether or not they find it worth it.
healSORC's have nothing but encase and absorbtion field. Tied to an ult is bad uptime and encase is mainly for tanks and pvp.

Every spec could use dark deal/exchange, but once again, cast time. Some tanks prefer deep thoughts for resource return and major protection.

Pvp is a non issue, I have this group buff up 24/7 and dark magic is primarily pvp skills.

Sorry pal, but no mDK will ever use Eruption instead of blockade or other more reliable AoE DoT for dmg deal. Also no mDK can take advantage of Minor brut unless he's using pelinal's.

No stamDK will ever use Molten armaments(that one gives major sorc, the other one gives brut, but let it be) each 20 secs on a buff that lasts more than 30 secs. You will be losing magicka if you do that.

No DK Tank will ever use again Obsidian shield, just because the shield given by hardened armor is much better, adds Major ward and resolve and increases your heal while active. And it costs like 1.5k magicka less.

That leaves the healer using ash cloud to trigger minor brutality, a buff from s/he cannot take advantage.

So my point stands

MashmalloMan · October 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

Dark Magic abilities are bad for a dps rotation, with the exception of crystal frags. But what about those who doesn't like to slot crystal frags in their build? I'm a lightning mage wearing Netch's Touch for example, only shock dmg. Also, crystal frags is only good if you slot force pulse, we don't see many petsorcs using crystal frags. There are a lot of builds that are based on light/heavy attacks that won't proc frags so they don't bother slotting it either.

It's such a good buff to be wasted in one ability, the rest are just CC abilities and there's dark deal with 1s cost

IMO minor prophecy should be a passive from either Daedric Summoning or Storm Calling, both has a bunch of better skills than dark magic, for DD.

Bad design, ZOS.

.

For the same reason minor brutality is in the Earthen Earth line.

Similar issue, but not exactly. I agree that something should be changed for DK too.

mDK's always use eruption within 20 seconds.
sDK's could use molten armaments (HA + pot build)/igneous weapons (no pot build)
tankDK's use igneous shield before 20 seconds is ever up
healDK's could use any of the above skills

They are all insta cast, the least benefiting is a stamDK as HA builds are dead and molten/igneous weapons are 40 sec skills meaning you would need to overcast for high uptime. Some stamDK's are thinking about using eruption, it's 18sec and will give about 500dps + minor brutality. Using an Earthen Heart skill also gives back 1k sta and 3 ult so it's super useful.

In comparison to a Sorc..

mSORC's PET will use nothing from dark magic.
mSORC's non pet use crystal frag, so all good.
sSORC's don't use anything but dark deal. This is fine for pvp but horrible for pve.
tankSORC's could use encase, but seriously, if you want to use the clanfear for 35% heal, 8% max hp, you are really lacking bar space. Encase is also front casted instead of around the tank so the skill sucks in comparison in to dk's choking talons. This is a wider issue but it illustrates why a tankSORC may not bother using the only tank skill in the skill line. The plus side is it gives 10% heal on cast and major vitality. A tank could speak better to whether or not they find it worth it.
healSORC's have nothing but encase and absorbtion field. Tied to an ult is bad uptime and encase is mainly for tanks and pvp.

Every spec could use dark deal/exchange, but once again, cast time. Some tanks prefer deep thoughts for resource return and major protection.

Pvp is a non issue, I have this group buff up 24/7 and dark magic is primarily pvp skills.

Sorry pal, but no mDK will ever use Eruption instead of blockade or other more reliable AoE DoT for dmg deal. Also no mDK can take advantage of Minor brut unless he's using pelinal's.

No stamDK will ever use Molten armaments(that one gives major sorc, the other one gives brut, but let it be) each 20 secs on a buff that lasts more than 30 secs. You will be losing magicka if you do that.

No DK Tank will ever use again Obsidian shield, just because the shield given by hardened armor is much better, adds Major ward and resolve and increases your heal while active. And it costs like 1.5k magicka less.

That leaves the healer using ash cloud to trigger minor brutality, a buff from s/he cannot take advantage.

So my point stands

Why would you choose eruption or blockade, eruption is one of your highest dps skills for a high duration, you should use both.

You are very narrow minded, I play a stam sorc and I'm fighting for the change to this GROUP buff. It doesn't matter if you benefit from it or not, it's a group buff that anyone using the class should be able to provide for a group.

You shouldn't have to think, "Oh nice they're a sorc so we get minor prophecy... Oh wait nvm, they're a stam sorc so they actually don't provide that group buff."

That's a big issue, NB and Warden's can provide their group buff easily. DK/SORC's have a harder time, TEMP is kinda middle of the road because theres a good deal of universally useful tools in the Dawn's Wrath skill tree.

Furthermore, what point do you have? I'm not argueing DK's have it easy, they have it EASIER. The true easy mode is NB and Warden's for their class buff and MANY people ran molten armaments for +40% HA dmg, just because you don't acknowledge those builds exist doesn't mean they don't. They are dead right now because light attack beat HA's and it's no longer required. I also mentioned that skills duration is longer then minor brutality.

Did you even read my comment?

Xvorg · October 2018

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

Dark Magic abilities are bad for a dps rotation, with the exception of crystal frags. But what about those who doesn't like to slot crystal frags in their build? I'm a lightning mage wearing Netch's Touch for example, only shock dmg. Also, crystal frags is only good if you slot force pulse, we don't see many petsorcs using crystal frags. There are a lot of builds that are based on light/heavy attacks that won't proc frags so they don't bother slotting it either.

It's such a good buff to be wasted in one ability, the rest are just CC abilities and there's dark deal with 1s cost

IMO minor prophecy should be a passive from either Daedric Summoning or Storm Calling, both has a bunch of better skills than dark magic, for DD.

Bad design, ZOS.

.

For the same reason minor brutality is in the Earthen Earth line.

Similar issue, but not exactly. I agree that something should be changed for DK too.

mDK's always use eruption within 20 seconds.
sDK's could use molten armaments (HA + pot build)/igneous weapons (no pot build)
tankDK's use igneous shield before 20 seconds is ever up
healDK's could use any of the above skills

They are all insta cast, the least benefiting is a stamDK as HA builds are dead and molten/igneous weapons are 40 sec skills meaning you would need to overcast for high uptime. Some stamDK's are thinking about using eruption, it's 18sec and will give about 500dps + minor brutality. Using an Earthen Heart skill also gives back 1k sta and 3 ult so it's super useful.

In comparison to a Sorc..

mSORC's PET will use nothing from dark magic.
mSORC's non pet use crystal frag, so all good.
sSORC's don't use anything but dark deal. This is fine for pvp but horrible for pve.
tankSORC's could use encase, but seriously, if you want to use the clanfear for 35% heal, 8% max hp, you are really lacking bar space. Encase is also front casted instead of around the tank so the skill sucks in comparison in to dk's choking talons. This is a wider issue but it illustrates why a tankSORC may not bother using the only tank skill in the skill line. The plus side is it gives 10% heal on cast and major vitality. A tank could speak better to whether or not they find it worth it.
healSORC's have nothing but encase and absorbtion field. Tied to an ult is bad uptime and encase is mainly for tanks and pvp.

Every spec could use dark deal/exchange, but once again, cast time. Some tanks prefer deep thoughts for resource return and major protection.

Pvp is a non issue, I have this group buff up 24/7 and dark magic is primarily pvp skills.

Sorry pal, but no mDK will ever use Eruption instead of blockade or other more reliable AoE DoT for dmg deal. Also no mDK can take advantage of Minor brut unless he's using pelinal's.

No stamDK will ever use Molten armaments(that one gives major sorc, the other one gives brut, but let it be) each 20 secs on a buff that lasts more than 30 secs. You will be losing magicka if you do that.

No DK Tank will ever use again Obsidian shield, just because the shield given by hardened armor is much better, adds Major ward and resolve and increases your heal while active. And it costs like 1.5k magicka less.

That leaves the healer using ash cloud to trigger minor brutality, a buff from s/he cannot take advantage.

So my point stands

Why would you choose eruption or blockade, eruption is one of your highest dps skills for a high duration, you should use both.

You are very narrow minded, I play a stam sorc and I'm fighting for the change to this GROUP buff. It doesn't matter if you benefit from it or not, it's a group buff that anyone using the class should be able to provide for a group.

You shouldn't have to think, "Oh nice they're a sorc so we get minor prophecy... Oh wait nvm, they're a stam sorc so they actually don't provide that group buff."

That's a big issue, NB and Warden's can provide their group buff easily. DK/SORC's have a harder time, TEMP is kinda middle of the road because theres a good deal of universally useful tools in the Dawn's Wrath skill tree.

Furthermore, what point do you have? I'm not argueing DK's have it easy, they have it EASIER. The true easy mode is NB and Warden's for their class buff and MANY people ran molten armaments for +40% HA dmg, just because you don't acknowledge those builds exist doesn't mean they don't. They are dead right now because light attack beat HA's and it's no longer required. I also mentioned that skills duration is longer then minor brutality.

Did you even read my comment?

Sorry, but you still don't get it. It is the way how ZoS implement things, I don't like it either. You can complaint against them for over 3 years and they will never hear you. It is a lost battle. They want Minor sorc attached to Dark Magic tree in the same way they want minor brut attached to Earthen Heart line a line that has no stam skills and that slowly is turning into the "healer line".

What else can we do?

I've been the last 3 years trying to get advantage of the minor brut buff on a stam DK and there's no way it will ever become more useful. Some time ago petrify was the option, but nowadays even that has been nerfed. Sure, I can try those skills, but they are very lackluster like igneous weapons compared to Rally or FM. Stone giant? Just a crappy skill even for an mDK. igneous shield? Sure. 4k magicka on a 6 secs bubble.

My apologies if my answer seemd rude, but when I see what ZoS has done to this game it is hard to keep the control. You are seeing it now on how they've treated a popular class like sorc. I been seing this for the last 3 years on my main class. And you now what's the saddest part? I did believe they just wanted DK to be crap. Now there are 2 classes in that ship.

MashmalloMan · October 2018

@Xvorg Fair point. They're both lackluster and ZOS should pay attention, it has been a long time, but the class rep program is very new and ZOS has shown an interest in providing more group play with the minor toughness changes (nerf to warhorn) + buffing (kinda) the current group buff options.

I have a sneaking suspicion they really think dark deal/dark exchange can fit on a mag dd/stam dd's bar given the fact that it lines up with the 20 second minor prophecy buff now.

Still can shoot our ideas at them and pray they listen.

Have you tried using eruption on your stam dk rotation, remove your spammable and just use venomous claw? On pts it gave me about the same dps at around 49k, but with the added benefit of sustain and providing the minor brutality to others.

Edit: Speaking from pve point of view, in pvp I guess you'd have to find the utility of one of those skills worth it as eruption is a horrible option for pvp.

Benemime · October 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

Benemime wrote: »

It's actually 6% now with Murkmire.

Minor Prophecy: Increased the bonus to Spell Critical Strike Chance to 6% from 3%.

it was a 3% buff to your let's say 60% so 63% with frag sorc

it is still 63% now but everyone ( including non-frag sorcs) is stripped of their 3% previously built-in mag crit

but getting same value if buffed by that frag sorc... so you have same 63% just 57% from your build and 6 from buff

which is definitelly a nerf with sadistic way to troll us like *c'mon values are still same if buffed*

So, to sum it up, Minor prophecy is bound to crystal frags, since the other abilities are bad on a dps rotation, while we got a 3% nerf to spell critical for those who doesn't slot frags, great.