Dev Team's Deafening Silence

del9 · October 2018

Hi All, and communiry rep @ZOS_GinaBruno ,

I'd like to bring up this topic in it's own thread so that ZoS can potentially shed some light on this matter, and so that the player base can voice their concerns on it.

We want to know why the Dev team has almost completely cut off communication with us since around PTS 4.2.2. As usual with PTS, we have many concerns with combat changes, new item sets, and Bugs whether combat related or in other areas of the game. We saw that you heard us with the shield changes, and responded by reverting the cast time idea. That was appreciated, and we felt at the point we were being heard. But since then I can't find any communication the Devs have had with us on this forum (save for the PTS notes, which were mostly just minor bug fixes).

For PTS to work, there needs to be a dialogue. That is why the testing server exists. I can understand that you may not have the resources to answer every complaint (I've had many) that players have about their favorite class or playstyle. But there were several bugs with PTS that were reported weeks in advance. For example: there was an issue with Wrecking Blow targeting that has made it to live. I saw a thread today that had a question about the Witche's festival rewards bug and a Z next to the title. But when I opened the thread, the only ZoS activity was moderators removing baiting comments.

When we put in time and effort into trying to start a conversation, and we don't hear from you, it tells us you don't care. As an every day player, and frequent forum contributor, I'm actually offended for our community that you've left us on read multiple times. We don't even know if you are seeing our feedback. Please help us understand the circumstances around this silence. For the health and survivability of your product, I hope this changes in the near future.

-Del

idk · October 2018

Personally I have thought ESO has suffered from poor management from the start. This was clear when Zos released ESO was launched and it was just one heap of a mess. I also agree that big bright issues have to often gotten past the PTS.

However, Zos has communicated with us. It may not be to everyone's liking. They clearly cannot respond to every thread, but they do respond. Below is just a quick list of communication we have received from Zos recently. I expect there is more but I do not have the time. Need to check to see if I can finally get into the game.

Class Rep meeting notes which is players directly communication with Zos and they gives us a heads up with what was discussed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25/p1

A Dev responding to a PTS thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5533549/#Comment_5533549
and replying back in the same thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5539519/#Comment_5539519

And another thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5514552/#Comment_5514552

And replying in an official PTS feedback thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5469409/#Comment_5469409

del9 · October 2018

@idk thanks for highlighting. But with the few exceptions of Gilliams posts, the other responses were at least 3 weeks back.

The Class Rep system was a good idea, but has become inadequate and is beginning to appear to be a tool for ZoS to shove off responsibility of understanding their own game and community. This may just be my opinion. But I do know the community does not feel heard.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · October 2018

del9 wrote: »

@idk thanks for highlighting. But with the few exceptions of Gilliams posts, the other responses were at least 3 weeks back.

The Class Rep system was a good idea, but has become inadequate and is beginning to appear to be a tool for ZoS to shove off responsibility of understanding their own game and community. This may just be my opinion. But I do know the community does not feel heard.

The problem is that they're expecting the class leads to be knowledgeable and speak for the entire class's concerns as a whole, but then they create their own half-baked solutions that clearly reflect how little they understand their own game anymore. They can't be hands-off on the knowledge / experience then hands-on with the solution, and that's exactly why balance has become such a trainwreck.

idk · October 2018

del9 wrote: »

@idk thanks for highlighting. But with the few exceptions of Gilliams posts, the other responses were at least 3 weeks back.

The Class Rep system was a good idea, but has become inadequate and is beginning to appear to be a tool for ZoS to shove off responsibility of understanding their own game and community. This may just be my opinion. But I do know the community does not feel heard.

I am not going through the entire PTS forum to appease you. Further, there is clearly no requirement for Zos to reply to everything as long as they get the message.

And finally, while I question the choices of some of the class reps, it is a source of feedback regardless of you liking it or not.

With that, I am taking leave of this thread unless something worthy is said in it.

del9 · October 2018

idk wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

@idk thanks for highlighting. But with the few exceptions of Gilliams posts, the other responses were at least 3 weeks back.

The Class Rep system was a good idea, but has become inadequate and is beginning to appear to be a tool for ZoS to shove off responsibility of understanding their own game and community. This may just be my opinion. But I do know the community does not feel heard.

I am not going through the entire PTS forum to appease you. Further, there is clearly no requirement for Zos to reply to everything as long as they get the message.

And finally, while I question the choices of some of the class reps, it is a source of feedback regardless of you liking it or not.

With that, I am taking leave of this thread unless something worthy is said in it.

Thanks, It is not your job to appease me. That job belongs to ZoS.

doc_ketamine · October 2018

idk wrote: »

With that, I am taking leave of this thread unless something worthy is said in it.

Excellent! Good day, sir.

AlienatedGoat · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Personally I have thought ESO has suffered from poor management from the start. This was clear when Zos released ESO was launched and it was just one heap of a mess. I also agree that big bright issues have to often gotten past the PTS.

However, Zos has communicated with us. It may not be to everyone's liking. They clearly cannot respond to every thread, but they do respond. Below is just a quick list of communication we have received from Zos recently. I expect there is more but I do not have the time. Need to check to see if I can finally get into the game.

Class Rep meeting notes which is players directly communication with Zos and they gives us a heads up with what was discussed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25/p1

A Dev responding to a PTS thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5533549/#Comment_5533549
and replying back in the same thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5539519/#Comment_5539519

And another thread
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5514552/#Comment_5514552

And replying in an official PTS feedback thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5469409/#Comment_5469409

PTS was never really intended to get any meaningful gameplay feedback from players. Its true intended purpose is to crowdsource free bug-testers to test the upcoming patches for any big problems that missed their first (and only) pass through QA.

A very secondary purpose is to give slight corrections in places where there need to be immediate changes. Anything else gets put on the backburner. ZOS has always punted any changes suggested in PTS, be it balance or otherwise, down the field to "be addressed in a later update".

Chances are, even if you keep bringing your issue up, it won't be addressed until sometime next year, if ever. This PTS cycle is done, and ZOS is winding down for the year.

Darkenarlol · October 2018

del9 wrote: »

Thanks, It is not your job to appease me. That job belongs to ZoS.

re-read your TOS you'll be surprised

del9 · October 2018

Darkenarlol wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Thanks, It is not your job to appease me. That job belongs to ZoS.

re-read your TOS you'll be surprised

TOS are irrelevant. It is ZoS job to secure my monthly sub, and they’ve lost that. Just trying to be clear, not oppositional.

Kanar · October 2018

del9 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

@idk thanks for highlighting. But with the few exceptions of Gilliams posts, the other responses were at least 3 weeks back.

The Class Rep system was a good idea, but has become inadequate and is beginning to appear to be a tool for ZoS to shove off responsibility of understanding their own game and community. This may just be my opinion. But I do know the community does not feel heard.

I am not going through the entire PTS forum to appease you. Further, there is clearly no requirement for Zos to reply to everything as long as they get the message.

And finally, while I question the choices of some of the class reps, it is a source of feedback regardless of you liking it or not.

With that, I am taking leave of this thread unless something worthy is said in it.

Thanks, It is not your job to appease me. That job belongs to ZoS.

LUL

Darkenarlol · October 2018

your sub ( and mine too) is just a drop in a very big barrel which is just one of many other barrels in zos money basement

we signed that we gonna eat what they give us so zos can do whatever they want when and how they want..

or do nothing at all (we've signed it too)

just to make things clear - i don't approve lack of communication from dev side

but it is not something we as customers can actually change

use the service (ESO) as it is or do not - that is the only actual choise we have

VaranisArano · October 2018

To be entirely fair to the Dev team, if I were them, I'd limit contact with the forum community too. By that point, it was pretty clear that the devs had their changes in mind and those were going to be implemented no matter what.

I mean, what are the Devs really going to say?

"Look, guys, we know you hate the shield nerfs, and we're doing the 50% cap anyway. Deal with it."

"Look guys, we know you think the speed nerfs were excessive and we're doing them anyway. Deal with it."

"No, these aren't open to negotiations and no, you can't see the data we used to decide this. Unless you get hired to be on the Dev team, no. Paying for the game doesn't make you my actual boss."

"Yes, we are listening to what you are saying. Yes, we understand it. No, we arent going to do what you want, so deal with it."

Thats effectively what the Devs have said by letting the PTS changes go Live, but I think its pretty clear why they dont actually come out at say that in plain language, right?

And it would probably help if we in the forum community made an effort to remain polite and respectful to the Devs, or they will probably continue interacting only with chosen player representatives as much as possible.

rfennell_ESO · October 2018

OP needs to have a quote in sig. A quote of himself... it just seems to fit.

SosRuvaak · October 2018

theyve heard us for lots of ***, but havent ever gone through with it the way we wanted.
like housing, its a money pool for them rather than a bonus to the players and game. its soo basic that i cant even sleep in my house, or really do anything other than collect items to place in my favorite spot.
nerfmire is really a disappointment in so many ways.

idk · October 2018

del9 wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Thanks, It is not your job to appease me. That job belongs to ZoS.

re-read your TOS you'll be surprised

TOS are irrelevant. It is ZoS job to secure my monthly sub, and they’ve lost that. Just trying to be clear, not oppositional.

Someone said something worthy

The ToS is relevant. And Zos does work every day to make the game in a way many will subscribe and keep their subscription, but they also understand they will not be able to keep everyone happy. They are certainly not going to focus on keeping one individual happy as you suggest they are to do with you.

You are upset because Zos let a flaw to make it to live and are a little upset they did not communicate enough to meet your liking.

I honestly suggest getting over it. Every single PTS flaws make it to live. There have been some serious flaws in marque content that have made it to live even though it has been well reported.

It is get over it or find another game. Plain and simple.

Chicharron · October 2018

I do not know what would be the point of having more communication, in the end they always end up ignoring their costumers and do what they want.

the representatives (in my opinion) are used as a populist tool, i have not seen anything that they recommend of high impact and they have listened to them.

No matter how many times ZOS say that they listen and read the feedback, actions speak louder.

Although I do not know if it is something bad, my favorite company is Nintendo.

And what i hate about them is what i like about them, that they do what they want and do not listen to their costumers.

Jameliel · October 2018

Sugar coat it if you please. Their performance is garbage and many need to be fired. Its absolutely disgusting.

Vahrokh · October 2018

It would GREATLY help if the average ZOS dev was as knowledgeable about their own game as Gilliamtherogue (an ex-player!) is.

Sadly it's not the case, a lot of totally... debatable... changes prove it again and again.

Worst of all, they have no A - - - - - - > B game "philosophy" direction or plans or aren't able to communicate them to us.

Therefore, most nerfs and changes look erratic, a coin flip, some random stuff thrown at a wall to see what sticks.
That's what annoys us players the most: not being communicated any feeling of direction, of purpose.

Why should I roll class A, when 3 months later they might or might not turn it into B, with totally awful and opposite gameplay? It just makes no sense!

WreckfulAbandon · October 2018

idk wrote: »

Someone said something worthy

The ToS is relevant. And Zos does work every day to make the game in a way many will subscribe and keep their subscription, but they also understand they will not be able to keep everyone happy. They are certainly not going to focus on keeping one individual happy as you suggest they are to do with you.

You are upset because Zos let a flaw to make it to live and are a little upset they did not communicate enough to meet your liking.

I honestly suggest getting over it. Every single PTS flaws make it to live. There have been some serious flaws in marque content that have made it to live even though it has been well reported.

It is get over it or find another game. Plain and simple.

Yeah what was he thinking giving his opinions in an internet forum? You're absolutely right and a visionary @idk , if you don't like an aspect of the game the best thing to do is shut up and quit. So much wisdom I'll have to come back later to fully soak it all in. You win the internet today sir.