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FPS Problem

rluke
rluke
✭✭
Getting around 15-25 FPS
Before Patch 80-100 FPS

Mac Pro
GTX 1080ti
24gb RAM

Monitor Dell Alienware 34inch 3418 (3440x1440) 100hz
Edited by rluke on November 19, 2018 3:09PM
  • Juju_beans
    Juju_beans
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Same is happening to me.

    FPS before patch: 60fps
    FPS after patch : 20fps

    No addons.

    iMac late 2013
    High Sierra 10.13.6
  • rluke
    rluke
    ✭✭
    Many ppl in Discord and German Forum reported the same Problem.
  • Rowjoh
    Rowjoh
    ✭✭✭
    same here :/
  • nathan_bri
    nathan_bri
    ✭✭✭
    Same. Frame rates before patch were quite good. Now I am getting 20 fps in Alinor at the same settings as before. Running Mojave on an iMac Retina with 40GB RAM and 1TB SSD.
    Edited by nathan_bri on October 22, 2018 3:03PM
  • ZOS_GinaBruno
    ZOS_GinaBruno
    Community Manager
    Thanks all, we're aware and working on making some improvements for an incremental patch.
    Gina Bruno
    Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
    Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | Facebook | Twitter
    Staff Post
  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    13 FPS sitting outside of stables in Davon's Watch. Before 30-40. :-(

    Even setting video to low, it's around 25fps... in practically empty static area.

    The switch to Metal should have been done over 2-3 patches to give devs time to optimize... this drop of frame rates by 70% is just... I have no words. :-(

    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • rluke
    rluke
    ✭✭
    its not playable atm :/
  • ESO_Blash
    ESO_Blash
    ✭✭✭✭
    Horrible... Unless you like slideshows.
    @ESO-Blash | PC EU AD | Host of the Achievement Points Leaderboard
    NO CROWNS - NO ESO+ | Until ZOS provides stable and reliable server performance.
  • qbit
    qbit
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They changed the renderer (from patch notes):

    We have switched the Mac renderer from OpenGL to MoltenVK (Metal) to support the upcoming release of the upcoming MacOS Mojave.

    So either Metal is garbage, the ZOS devs used it poorly, or the current MacOS implementation of it is garbage.

    This doesn't bode well for another game (simulator actually) I greatly enjoy that has been working on converting from OpenGL to Vulkan for a while now. I'm not aware of the differences and similarities between Vulkan and Metal and how they are implemented. Perhaps Metal is just really awful. Too early to say, and this isn't the forum to find that out on.

    I'm sorry to say, but this would be a good time to get a PC. You can install Windows to a Mac with some messing around with it. Well, at least a co-worker of mine did so years ago. May not be possible anymore. I went the other way around and got MacOS installed to an old Dell Optiplex. Good times.

    Personally, I'd like to see them ditch cross-platform APIs and upgrade the renderer to DX12. That would probably solve a lot of performance problems related to poor multi-threading for the vast majority of their player base.
    Edited by qbit on October 22, 2018 3:47PM
    PC-NA: @q.bit
  • kenjitamura
    kenjitamura
    ✭✭
    qbit wrote: »
    They changed the renderer (from patch notes):

    We have switched the Mac renderer from OpenGL to MoltenVK (Metal) to support the upcoming release of the upcoming MacOS Mojave.

    So either Metal is garbage, the ZOS devs used it poorly, or the current MacOS implementation of it is garbage.

    MoltenVK is a translation layer. Graphics API's have commands that are meant for the operating systems drivers to receive and interpret then compiled into machine code sent directly to the hardware. Because Apple doesn't support Vulkan those commands meant for Vulkan are going through an extra step to be turned into the command equivalent for Metal so that MacOS can interface with the Vulkan language. It requires the system to work a little harder and reduces FPS a little more than if they had just used a pure Metal implementation. But if done right the impact should really only be about a 10% reduction in FPS over using pure Metal. There's most likely a bug in their code which could either be present in their Vulkan code or in the MoltenVK implementation which means they might have to reach out to Khronos to help fix it.
    qbit wrote: »
    Personally, I'd like to see them ditch cross-platform APIs and upgrade the renderer to DX12. That would probably solve a lot of performance problems related to poor multi-threading for the vast majority of their player base.

    Bethesda has partnered with AMD and are making a push to convert most of their games to Vulkan which is probably why ZOS has chosen to use Vulkan instead of having to hire two sets of developers with one trained for Metal and the other trained for DX12.

    Vulkan is as good as DX12 when it comes to performance and multi-threading as they are both very low level languages with equivalent feature sets. With that being the case the only real questions the developer needs to ask when deciding between the two are

    1. Will it be easier to obtain/reuse developers trained to port to Vulkan or DX12?

    2. If the developers are supporting different platforms how much of the code can be reused to save time/money when using DX12 or Vulkan?

    As ZOS works with Bethesda they should have a decent ability to draw from their pre-existing Vulkan porting developer pool and since Vulkan can be used on MacOS, albeit with some hacking, it means there is a much greater amount of code that can be shared between the two different platforms rendering paths.

    Edited by kenjitamura on October 22, 2018 4:20PM
  • Corew
    Corew
    ✭✭✭
    Well, things worked just fine as it was under Mojave.. now it's unplayable. Sigh, guess it's just another game I have to play in Windows ;P
  • karpok
    karpok
    ✭✭
    Not really a surprise. It was already unplayable on the pts since day 1. But not because of fps issues.
    --
    Soumar, Aldmeri Sorcer
  • alterfenixeb17_ESO
    alterfenixeb17_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Ok a few things from me:

    1. After a few hours of gameplay it seems that memory usage with all addons enabled is still around 3 - 3,5 GB. With patch 4.1.5 record in my case was 20 GB so that's a heavy improvement.
    2. There is a mouse issue. Every now and then when I press M for map and then leave i by pressing M again mouse pointer does not disappear making it a lot harder to navigate.
    3. FPS issue. On medium settings and most graphic options set to ON before patch I was getting around 40 - 50 fps with my GTX 775M however now it often is less than 10 even. I would expect some performance drop but not really that significant.
    4. Font scaling issue. Sometimes when I exit full screen and then reenter it by using Alt+Enter it happens that all fonts go awkward by i being too small or sometimes even having effect of what appears to be each letter printed with font of a different size.

    It is still playable however the overall experience (except to related to memory usage) before patch was better.
  • kamimark
    kamimark
    ✭✭✭
    When I go to windowed mode, it chose a very small size, rather than the old max-minus-Dock size I had. Resizing it works fine, apparently. Haven't had a chance to relaunch it and see if it remembers this new setting, but I often have to tab out, so this needs to be consistent.

    Mouse pointer wasn't being captured/hidden when I returned to a windowed mode, but doing something in UI and then Esc back to the targeting reticle hid the pointer again.

    FPS dropped from 50+ to 15 at best. Dropping graphics & texture quality made little difference, and looked awful, so I put that back to High. Dropping view distance to 50m made an enormous difference, got it up to 20-30 which was at least playable.

    Specs:
    Mojave 10.14 (18A391)
    iMac 5K 27", mid-2015
    3.3GHz i5
    16 GB RAM
    AMD R9 M290 2048MB
    Kitty Rainbow Dash. pick, pick, stab.
  • ethernut60
    My fps also shows considerably lower than before. Tinkering around with performance improvement settings makes no difference. HOWEVER, graphics look better and overall performance is much smoother and more responsive.

    MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014)
    2.5 GHz Intel Core i7
    16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
    Nvidia GeForce GT 750M, 2 GB vRAM

    macOS Mojave 10.14 (18A391)
  • Montie
    Montie
    ✭✭✭
    Just throwing my hat in this as well. Performance was fine pre patch and now...not so much.

    Running Mojave
    Model Name: iMac
    Model Identifier: iMac18,3
    Processor Name: Intel Core i7
    Processor Speed: 4.2 GHz
    Memory: 24 GB
    Edited by Montie on October 22, 2018 11:01PM
  • qbit
    qbit
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    qbit wrote: »
    They changed the renderer (from patch notes):

    We have switched the Mac renderer from OpenGL to MoltenVK (Metal) to support the upcoming release of the upcoming MacOS Mojave.

    So either Metal is garbage, the ZOS devs used it poorly, or the current MacOS implementation of it is garbage.

    MoltenVK is a translation layer. Graphics API's have commands that are meant for the operating systems drivers to receive and interpret then compiled into machine code sent directly to the hardware. Because Apple doesn't support Vulkan those commands meant for Vulkan are going through an extra step to be turned into the command equivalent for Metal so that MacOS can interface with the Vulkan language. It requires the system to work a little harder and reduces FPS a little more than if they had just used a pure Metal implementation. But if done right the impact should really only be about a 10% reduction in FPS over using pure Metal. There's most likely a bug in their code which could either be present in their Vulkan code or in the MoltenVK implementation which means they might have to reach out to Khronos to help fix it.
    qbit wrote: »
    Personally, I'd like to see them ditch cross-platform APIs and upgrade the renderer to DX12. That would probably solve a lot of performance problems related to poor multi-threading for the vast majority of their player base.

    Bethesda has partnered with AMD and are making a push to convert most of their games to Vulkan which is probably why ZOS has chosen to use Vulkan instead of having to hire two sets of developers with one trained for Metal and the other trained for DX12.

    Vulkan is as good as DX12 when it comes to performance and multi-threading as they are both very low level languages with equivalent feature sets. With that being the case the only real questions the developer needs to ask when deciding between the two are

    1. Will it be easier to obtain/reuse developers trained to port to Vulkan or DX12?

    2. If the developers are supporting different platforms how much of the code can be reused to save time/money when using DX12 or Vulkan?

    As ZOS works with Bethesda they should have a decent ability to draw from their pre-existing Vulkan porting developer pool and since Vulkan can be used on MacOS, albeit with some hacking, it means there is a much greater amount of code that can be shared between the two different platforms rendering paths.

    Thanks for that. So the take away for me is they botched the Metal rollout. .... I mean, regardless of the underlying tech and cause for issues, they rolled this update out knowing Mac users would get a 10 to 20 FPS drop. On an already low FPS game. Unforgivable. Sorry, ZOS
    PC-NA: @q.bit
  • qbit
    qbit
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another thread referenced upgrading to Mojave. I don’t know if that’s possible since I’m a Windows got, but it might fix your issue.
    PC-NA: @q.bit
  • rluke
    rluke
    ✭✭
    I hope they fix it soon,
    with 20fps its not playable in PVP or Trails.
  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    OK, had to play with settings, so the game looks a bit worse than yesterday and it does stutter occasionally, but I am getting 35-40 fps, and just run a delve with bunch of other people with no problem. I am playing on 2013 27" iMac with 4GB GTX 780M. One thing I noticed that fps appeared to get better with time... after 10 or so minutes... not sure if just my imagination though.

    My settings:

    - windowed mode (i.e. entire screen except for menu bar and dock)
    - vertical sync: off
    - anti aliasing: on
    - texture q: high
    - subsampling: high
    - shadow: low
    - water reflections: off
    - max particle systems: 768
    - particle supp. dist.: 35
    - view distance 37
    - ambient occlusion: None

    All other switches ON, except for ally effects.

    If you are having issues, may be worth starting with these, giving it 10-15 minutes, then adjusting if necessary.

    PS. I even turned all 50 or so addons I usually run back on, no issue.
    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, to be fair, when they said this was going to be a "performance improvement patch" they didn't actually specify who's performance they improved.

    My guess is probably the performance of the phone support for the crown store ...
    dry.gif
    The Sidekick Order:
    The Naked Nords | The Cannon Fodder of Tamriel | The Mercenaries without Skills | The League of formidable Crafters
    The Psijic Order - 0.016% | Elder Moot | Lone Wolf Help | Great House Hlaalu
  • Punnyguy
    Punnyguy
    Thanks all, we're aware and working on making some improvements for an incremental patch.

    Any ETA on the incremental patch to fix this? The game is all but unplayable.
    Edited by Punnyguy on October 22, 2018 11:57PM
  • HowTaoBrownCow
    Just adding my report of the same FPS problem, on a maxed-out 2017 Macbook Pro. Had decent FPS on high settings before the patch, now getting 10-17 FPS in areas like the Vivec City market, and only a few points better in player homes and delves. I can play it, but I have to squint in the big cities or I get nauseous.

    I hope that incremental patch comes soon.
  • postlarval
    postlarval
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Adding my FPS issues as well. Please fix ASAP. Unplayable and I'm on an iMac Pro with 128G RAM and 16G VRAM. WTF?!?
    "The Illuminati are very achievement focused. It's like Xbox - only everything is hardcore."
    - Kirsten Geary
  • Jeth
    Jeth
    ✭✭
    Thanks all, we're aware and working on making some improvements for an incremental patch.

    Seriously, this is complete BS. If I wanted to watch grandpa's vacation slides from trips to aztec ruins, I'd log off and give him a call. I have been playing this game that is near beta quality since, ummmm, beta. How do you release an update the cuts graphics performance by 75%?

    The fact is you were aware of this before it went live because it was reported. So happy you're spending all the real coin you're sent on developing furniture and other pretty pixels. In the mean time, a significant portion of your paying customers can't run a 4-man.

    This *** better be fixed soon.
    Edited by Jeth on October 23, 2018 1:14AM
    -Jeth
  • Juju_beans
    Juju_beans
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @barrrt I tried the settings you posted. Didn't really make much of a difference and I played for 20-30 minutes.

    In my home (snugpod)...95 FPS
    In Eldenroot...19-20 FPS
    In a delve ..25 FPS
    At a crowded dolmen (VG)..10 FPS
    Edited by Juju_beans on October 23, 2018 1:15AM
  • Jeth
    Jeth
    ✭✭
    Thanks all, we're aware and working on making some improvements for an incremental patch.

    Give us a date when this will get fixed and what "some improvements" means. 10 FPS improved to 11 FPS? Canceling sub until we get some answers.
    -Jeth
  • barrrt
    barrrt
    ✭✭✭
    @Juju_beans That's a shame. :-(

    My delves were fine, but yeah, coming back to town was a pain... around 20fps with lots of stutters into low teens. This was in general true of complex environments - areas outside of Windhelm, which are fairly open and clear, were where I was getting these higher fps rates, but more complex open world, such as Shdowfen, was much lower. Pre-patch there would be differences, of course, but nowhere near this magnitude.

    I meant to get to one of the Alik'r dolmen; I guess I am glad I didn't. Honestly at this point, if it wasn't for the fact I am trying to level up two toons with double XP, I'd probably have to stop playing until this is fixed. Too frustrating.

    EP: Veren Sailenar - 50 DK : Isabeau Sette Tyne - 50 Sorc : This-One-Lizard-Yes - 50 Templar : Lililia Adal - 50 NB : Solea Caro - 50 DK : Igor with Vigor - 50 Sorc : Slightly-Delays-Death - 50 Templar : Balki Barthel - 50 Warden : Willowshade Roxie - 50 Warden
    AD: Kael Spellbinder - 50 Templar
    DC: Sharrku gra-Dusku - 50 NB
  • sean.plackerb14_ESO
    sean.plackerb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    I don't have a Mac but I'm sorry you guys are having to deal with this. That stinks. I came to the forums because I was curious after reading the patch notes if you guys noticed a perf increase.

    I do find it quite interesting they went with using Vulkan combined with MoltenVK which translates Vulkan to Metal API calls (and is open source and free under the Apache License) instead of just using Metal alone. Makes me think/wonder if we are gonna get a Vulkan renderer on the Windows client anytime soon. That's the only reason I can see for them using MoltenVK. Lets them have one Vulkan renderer for PC and Mac with the MoltenVK wrapper on Mac translating to Metal API calls. Instead of one DX 11 one DX 12 renderer on Windows and a Metal renderer for Mac.

    For those wondering if Metal is just a bad API or MoltenVK is at fault its not. Metal is used in a handful of mac ports of AAA games (Deus EX Mankind Divided, Rise of the tomb raider, Fortnite, World of Warcraft etc) and have no performance issues. As for MoltenVK Valve uses it for Dota 2 on Mac and saw a significant increase in performance compared to OpenGL. This issue with ESO is just a nasty bug that needs to be fixed.
    Edited by sean.plackerb14_ESO on October 23, 2018 3:27AM
    @sean8102 - Carlore - Daggerfall Covenant
  • raffaeleg
    raffaeleg
    ✭✭
    I've noticed also on the PTS server... I couldn't guess this was happening on the final version. I'm wondering if the Mac support is alive on this game. Just running the game after hours of waiting, busy servers.. and now? Pressing ESC in game and I can't click anything!
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