joaaocaampos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

More seriously, most trials and arenas take a greater level of coordination amd communication than a dungeon, even between PUGs. Groupfinder is an alternative to having to communicate with zone, friends, or guild members to find a group.

I mean, except for saying hi, the normal level of communication I have with most dungeon PUG from groupfinder is to ask if "anyone need gear or quest?", clarifying a mechanic if someone is obviously struggling, and saying "Thanks for group!" at the end. We're generally not talking strategies or optimizing our support gear. If I wanted communication in a dungeon, I'd group up with guildies or IRL friends on voice comms.

But the point is not coordination and communication. Players are whining because there are fake Tanks. And we're talking about Normal and Veteran Dungeons!

Taunt detector? DPS meter? Healing detector? I don't know what to think and talk about these players! ¬¬

Edit... And... Ignore what I wrote in rage.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Honestly nothing that was said could not be said for any vet dungeon when they are new it’s a nightmare when someone doesn’t know what needs to happen. But dungeons can be completed without a healer or tank a four man DPS súper burn can clear most things.

Trials stand on the opposite side of this you need a Tank that can take heavy damage you need a healer that kicks the Grim Reaper in the balls for fun. That’s why you will not see fake roles. Player que as tank or healer cause they know they don’t always need to tank or healer but group finder will not let them just do all DPS. So they will que for the right roles plus you can do a check before you run the trial. Even guild groups have the whole team outside the door waiting to start.

Once the trials are done by more people more often the mechanism will be know as much as any other group dungeon.

richo262 wrote: »

I cannot remember the last time I did nDSA with a tank. It is usually 3 dps 1 heal, or 4 dps with self heal.

I don't think veteran arena or trials should have a dungeon finder. I would not object to Trials and Arena NORMAL getting a dungeon finder. Just like how the Dungeons unlock at a certain level, Arenas should start to unlock at CP 160 and Trials should start to unlock at CP 300. Again, NORMAL. No Random XP bonus. Purely specific searches. Tank is lead by default. Perhaps have a Tank / Healer certification ie, in order to be able to que as Tank or Healer you need to, with the current gear / skills you have undergo a test, should you change anything you have to redo the test in order to que as tank / healer.

Test is pretty simple, take a beating for tank, and heal to a certain standard for healer. DPS, no test.

Tank cert, granted from fighters guild, Heal cert, granted from Mages Guild. If there ever was a DPS cert, Undaunted.

The reason why is, it will pull a huge amount of DPS from the dungeon finder out of the que for pledges.

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm just going to shamelessly repost this:

starkerealm wrote: »

I'd rather spend hours looking for a group that can actually clear a trial than spend three ****ing hours in nHoF because the ****ing healer can't do their ******* job, and that ******** khajiit would actually listen to the mechanics instead of just saying, "boobies," and giggling, at irregular intervals.

Look, if you haven't actually run trials yet, I fully understand where you're coming from. As someone who's cleared every normal trial in the game, and a few on vet... no, you do not want this.

I know you think you do. This sounds really appealing on the outside looking in, but Trials require way more coordination than dungeons. It's not just paying attention to mechanics, it's organizing your team. Here's a few examples:

HRC: After clearing the first boss, you need to split your group into two pieces. A tank, a healer, and four DPS need to go with both groups. (Only, because it's group finder, one of your "tanks" is a snipe spammer in medium armor. RIP.)

AA: You need to get everyone on the pads. You need a tank in the middle with three DPS. You need a healer on both sides, and DPS with them. Honestly, this is hard enough to orchestrate with new players who are serious about coordinating. I don't even want to think about the pad mechanic in a PUG. I'm also not even thinking about AA boss mechanics, because that is the only faceroll trial otherwise.

SO: My first though is, hey, you might actually be able to pug this... then I remembered the poison mechanics. That would be hilarious in a GF PUG, and not in a good way.

MoL: *Psychotic laughter* Okay, so, normally the Twins aren't a stumbling block for an experienced group, but for a PUG? Let me explain. The room has a line of candles across the middle. On either end of the candle line is a boss. A tank, healer, and four DPS sneaks across the room, between the bosses, and sets up there. Now, the tank must aggro (but not taunt) one of the bosses, then taunt the other one. At the same time the other tank needs to taunt (at range) the untaunted boss. This is when you learn your second GF tank doesn't know what taunts are. And, for more fun and games, at various points in the fight your tanks will need to trade bosses. Also, if any player from one side approaches a player from the other, they'll both detonate, killing one another and probably instigating a wipe. And... we're not even done.

MoL Continued: *More psychotic laughter.* Okay, somehow you got through the twins, and made your way to the final boss. At various phases in the fight you need to send three runners (technically two can do the job if they really know the paths), who will venture out of the boss fight, where they must kill six hidden ritualistic, before they wipe the group. I've seen relatively competent players get confused on this point causing wipes.

*Sixty-Three wipes later*

HoF: So, that three hour thing wasn't a random scenario I pulled out of a hat; that happened to me. The other tank was CR153 (remember this, you're going to queue into a trial with level 20s who have no CP), the healer and at least one of the DPS were utter spazzes. Why do I bring this up? Because one player can cause wipes in HoF.

The first boss you encounter is actually a pair. You need to split them up, and then the tanks rotate them back and forth allowing the DPS to burn one and then switching off. While this is happening, the DPS are being mauled by poison. Also, because this isn't enough fun.

The second boss is in the same room. In this fight, at various times, you'll need to send four DPS to the upper platform, where they can disable an enemy and reset a system before coming back down. Surprise, turns out if anyone's DPS is low, when they go up, they'll kill the entire group. You can also accidentally kill yourself up there if you're not careful.

The next to last boss (I'm skipping the spider. I think it's a PUG wrecker, but I don't feel like writing that one up right now), is another group fight. This time there's three. But these mechanics are special. So, each tank can take the bosses on the sides. The center one never moves. While they're together they're immune to damage, so the tanks (plural, again) need to pull those two off of the guy in the center, then each group needs to burn their version. When the bosses get to certain thresholds they become immune to damage again, and need to be reconnected. This will burn out their immunity if all of them were at those thresholds. So... yeah, that's not happening with a PUG. Coordinated groups can get stuck on this. My first attempt took almost 45 minutes on this boss alone (see the aforementioned healer and draw the connection, though this was before that guild drove off almost all of its good players because of, yeah, that healer again.)

Now you're at the last boss. You're going to wipe. When you die he creates a clone of you. If he draws aggro on anything he can't reach, he jumps. When he jumps three times in a row, everyone dies. When he gets to certain health thresholds you need to stop DPS on the boss, because he will reflect that damage back on you. Also, when the tank dies you probably can't rez them unless you get stupidly lucky. He also gasses parts of the room. Hope you weren't planning on standing there. Electrifies others, yeah the wiring here is terrible, and releases spinning blade traps in the rest. And that's the safest space in the room. Meanwhile you're wiped by your own clone.

*One-Hundred-and-Thirty-Seven wipes later.*

You never see execute phase, you don't know what it looks like or if it's even real. You've never seen him below 75% health because your DPS keep killing themselves when he walks to the center of the room.

AS: The two side bosses are fine. The main boss is annoying. Good luck getting your PUG to deal with the adds that grant invulnerability to the boss. But, I'm getting ahead of myself, because they also grant invulnerability to the side bosses. In theory you can kill them first before clearing the fight, but that will never happen because of that idiot who sprints straight in and triggers hard mode because they saw something to attack.

Yeah... I'll pass, thanks.

Facefister wrote: »

Your average random fails vSpindle1 and yet people demand a Trial finder...